Let's Discuss Vulcan!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

On 5/6/2020 at 2:00 AM, KillerDiesel said:

We'll see what I think of it when I do test it.

Don't expect a powerhouse out of Mk5 Vulcan. In the lower modifications, it should be tolerable. It's the later modifications (Mk7 and Mk8) where there is the "OPness".

[KillerDiesel 188]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Don't expect a powerhouse out of Mk5 Vulcan. In the lower modifications, it should be tolerable. It's the later modifications (Mk7 and Mk8) where there is the "OPness".

Lol, I'm not expecting shear domination from it. In fact I really don't buy in the whole "Vulcan is OP" nonsense.

 

If it really was OP, then I should be dying to it more often without it having to resort to the fire immunity and incendiary band alt combo or hornet OD. But only about 5% of my deaths to Vulcan has been without either of those things.

 

I'm just testing mk5 Vulcan to see if it can be a reliable weapon again.

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:48 AM, PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA said:

Too good

On hornet with the hornet OD and RAT aug it is way OP. Vulcan alone is not. 

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:43 AM, KillerDiesel said:

Lol, I'm not expecting shear domination from it. In fact I really don't buy in the whole "Vulcan is OP" nonsense.

 

If it really was OP, then I should be dying to it more often without it having to resort to the fire immunity and incendiary band alt combo or hornet OD. But only about 5% of my deaths to Vulcan has been without either of those things.

 

I'm just testing mk5 Vulcan to see if it can be a reliable weapon again.

You are spot on. No nerf needed for Vulcan. Just Hornet OD makes magnum/hornet, rail/hornet, vulcan/hornet OP. 

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:46 AM, TheCongoSpider said:

It works. I'm trying to complete it right now so I won't have to willingly pick up Incendiary Band again. I don't like the gameplay it encourages me to do. I'd rather Stock gameplay. 

 

Gameplay of Vulcan with incendiary bands = twins gameplay

[enri_chill 135]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:02 PM, wolverine848 said:

I see what you are getting at - and maybe in lower ranks with less experienced targets and slower moving tanks it might work out.  But against competent enemies, and as the tanks move faster, I'd say the DPS for Vulcan will keep dropping with the slower bullet theory.  And distance too will make things much harder.

I'll stick to my original wish that Vulcan keep it's high-speed projectiles, even if that means they do a little bit less damage each.

I agree with your thoughts on this. When you are shooting the vulcan the rotation of the turret is already super slow, which makes tracking a moving enemy hard enough. slow the bullets and forget it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

6 minutes ago, enri_chill said:

I agree with your thoughts on this. When you are shooting the vulcan the rotation of the turret is already super slow, which makes tracking a moving enemy hard enough. slow the bullets and forget it.

This is made up for by its very high heating rate. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by TheCongoSpider

[sharifsahaf 656]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:41 PM, Ethiaa said:

I agree - I'd only equipped it for one game where the opposition was mainly Titans sat in domes hence the kills I spotted.

Frankly, since the changes to Vulcan I've found myself playing with Striker much more. Maybe I just like being the odd one out - or maybe the gameplay at low levels is actually more fun.

actually i was wondering if i was the odd one out .vulcan from 2015 has been one of my if not my most favourite turret .since last month everyone started using vulcans and i find myself favouring it and using it very less .i even spent a whole lotta crystals buying a hammer cause  playing with vulcan has lost its fun now that its kind of a must use or lose the match combo .i guess i just dont like things being forced on me and this kinda feels like it .

[enri_chill 135]

On 5/21/2020 at 11:26 PM, TheCongoSpider said:

This is made up for by its very high heating rate. 

Only if you are hitting the target. Slow the bullet speed and long distance shooting with the vulcan is gone. I don't care what the damage output is, if you can't hit the target the target receives no damage (or afterburn). Sort of like shooting the thunder equipped with sledgehammer rounds at distance...forget the reduced damage, if the target is moving it is incredibly hard to hit due to the slow down of the shot.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 minutes ago, enri_chill said:

Only if you are hitting the target. Slow the bullet speed and long distance shooting with the vulcan is gone. I don't care what the damage output is, if you can't hit the target the target receives no damage (or afterburn). Sort of like shooting the thunder equipped with sledgehammer rounds at distance...forget the reduced damage, if the target is moving it is incredibly hard to hit due to the slow down of the shot.

Spraying the bullets is effective for faraway targets. And with the new Incendiary Band, it is recommended to get within short range of the target. When those bullets touch you, you get heated fast. One second of exposed fire alone is enough to get you close to maximum temperature. It doesn't need to get consistent damage like Stock, just make sure you get some to give afterburn. 

 

From using it myself and from being on the receiving end, it's not hard to hit enemies up close where it is recommended. And if the enemy Vulcan dies early in the engagement, I will almost certainly die from the many seconds of afterburn I get due to the high heating rate. 

[enri_chill 135]

7 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Spraying the bullets is effective for faraway targets. And with the new Incendiary Band, it is recommended to get within short range of the target. When those bullets touch you, you get heated fast. One second of exposed fire alone is enough to get you close to maximum temperature. It doesn't need to get consistent damage like Stock, just make sure you get some to give afterburn. 

 

From using it myself and from being on the receiving end, it's not hard to hit enemies up close where it is recommended. And if the enemy Vulcan dies early in the engagement, I will almost certainly die from the many seconds of afterburn I get due to the high heating rate. 

That might be why I am not for slowing down the vulcan bullets. I have loved using the Vulcan long before the incendiary bands. I use it for sure, but do not spray hoping to hit a target and causing random damage. I tend to see where I need to help my team and try to damage those specific tanks...I need accuracy at a distance to do that. As far as resolving the typical OP dynamics within games,  I am for nerfing the culprit to most ridiculously imbalanced battles...Hornet OD. Whether it is the magnum or vulcan or thunder...mount it on Hornet and it is OP. Maybe reducing the length of it 1 to 1-1/2 seconds, eliminating the spawn kill exemption, and adding another second to the cool down could help rebalance without eliminating the OD.

[kydapoot 570]

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but please nerf vulcan. I use it all the time and it's fun to play with, but it simply does too much damage to be balanced against other turrets. I'm shocked it has even gone this long without a damage nerf.

Edit: To be more specific, here's what I mean by too much damage:

A Mk8 Vulcan deals 1000 damage per second (50 damage per bullet times 20 bullets per second).

• That's the same as a Mk8 Isida (which, I might point out, for a long time has rightfully held the title of the turret with the highest DPS - it's a melee range turret without a special effect). Except that:
  • Vulcan can fire for twice as long as Isida without even overheating, and restarts much faster than Isida can reload
  • Vulcan can shoot five times farther than Isida at maximum damage, and even farther with a bit of reduction.
  • Vulcan can bounce shells off walls.
  • Vulcan has impact force
  • Vulcan can deal additional damage by heating enemies

Now tell me, does a mildly slower rotation speed and bullets that have to fly for a bit make up for all that?

No. Mid-to-long range turrets should not have the raw DPS that melee range turrets do. Even if you consider Isida's ability to heal enough to justify that offensive imbalance, just repeat the comparison with firebird or freeze. Or twins, for that matter. Or practically any other turret in the game. The raw damage of Vulcan, combined with the other attributes that make the turret what it is, makes it far too powerful.

Edited May 25, 2020 by kydapoot
Specifics

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

4 hours ago, kydapoot said:

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but please nerf vulcan. I use it all the time and it's fun to play with, but it simply does too much damage to be balanced against other turrets. I'm shocked it has even gone this long without a damage nerf.

Edit: To be more specific, here's what I mean by too much damage:

A Mk8 Vulcan deals 1000 damage per second (50 damage per bullet times 20 bullets per second).

• That's the same as a Mk8 Isida (which, I might point out, for a long time has rightfully held the title of the turret with the highest DPS - it's a melee range turret without a special effect). Except that:
  • Vulcan can fire for twice as long as Isida without even overheating, and restarts much faster than Isida can reload
  • Vulcan can shoot five times farther than Isida at maximum damage, and even farther with a bit of reduction.
  • Vulcan can bounce shells off walls.
  • Vulcan has impact force
  • Vulcan can deal additional damage by heating enemies

Now tell me, does a mildly slower rotation speed and bullets that have to fly for a bit make up for all that?

No. Mid-to-long range turrets should not have the raw DPS that melee range turrets do. Even if you consider Isida's ability to heal enough to justify that offensive imbalance, just repeat the comparison with firebird or freeze. Or twins, for that matter. Or practically any other turret in the game. The raw damage of Vulcan, combined with the other attributes that make the turret what it is, makes it far too powerful.

I don't have a problem with it and that's coming from a non Vulcan user. It's only really a problem with hornet OD or the dreaded incendiary band and fire immunity alterations duo. I know how to counter it when it's shooting at me.

Surprised many choose to complain about it when they keep getting wrecked by it rather than do a better job countering it.

[kydapoot 570]

3 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

I don't have a problem with it and that's coming from a non Vulcan user. It's only really a problem with hornet OD or the dreaded incendiary band and fire immunity alterations duo. I know how to counter it when it's shooting at me.

Surprised many choose to complain about it when they keep getting wrecked by it rather than do a better job countering it.

I agree that those two are quite OP, although in the case of incendiary band, dodging shots is somewhat viable. I understand where you're coming from (it's true that Vulcan can be countered), but I still hold that the damage per bullet makes it somewhat inordinately powerful for a game that places emphasis on making each turret similarly competitive.

[sharifsahaf 656]

8 hours ago, kydapoot said:

It feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but please nerf vulcan. I use it all the time and it's fun to play with, but it simply does too much damage to be balanced against other turrets. I'm shocked it has even gone this long without a damage nerf.

Edit: To be more specific, here's what I mean by too much damage:

A Mk8 Vulcan deals 1000 damage per second (50 damage per bullet times 20 bullets per second).

• That's the same as a Mk8 Isida (which, I might point out, for a long time has rightfully held the title of the turret with the highest DPS - it's a melee range turret without a special effect). Except that:
  • Vulcan can fire for twice as long as Isida without even overheating, and restarts much faster than Isida can reload
  • Vulcan can shoot five times farther than Isida at maximum damage, and even farther with a bit of reduction.
  • Vulcan can bounce shells off walls.
  • Vulcan has impact force
  • Vulcan can deal additional damage by heating enemies

Now tell me, does a mildly slower rotation speed and bullets that have to fly for a bit make up for all that?

No. Mid-to-long range turrets should not have the raw DPS that melee range turrets do. Even if you consider Isida's ability to heal enough to justify that offensive imbalance, just repeat the comparison with firebird or freeze. Or twins, for that matter. Or practically any other turret in the game. The raw damage of Vulcan, combined with the other attributes that make the turret what it is, makes it far too powerful.

same as @DieselPlatinum  when it comes to hornet OD and burn immunity-incendiary band combo .also dictators that spam drugs piss me off.suppose someone uses vulcan-dictator with all drugs(except speed boost) and also has the trickster drone .after the supplies finish (if he's low in health ,uses a repair kit),just take a speed boost box or from ur supplies .voila! u can use all the supplies again.again his health is low and he uses the dictator OD .with an isida behind that that could destroy a whole team .possibly twice

[PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA 93]

Nerf Vulcan nuff said.

 

scrubs

(grabs cop porn)

[wolverine848 13,097]

Might have 1000 DPS against stationary targets but it likley drops for moving targets - the further away the greater the drop.

But if it had a slight nerf to damage it would still be a decent turret.

Edited May 25, 2020 by wolverine848

[kydapoot 570]

10 hours ago, At_Shin said:

It can deal devastating damage of 1050 hp per second.  And it can do that for 10 whole seconds!!!!! it's reload time is 6 seconds. Now, this turret is OP Coz it can damage multiple enemies that come under it's firey shot. So it can assassinate groups of enemies at the same time and even crush heavily armoured enemies by shooting at them for constant 10 seconds. Now tell me that is not OP.

Yeah, firebird is a little OP too. It's got very limited range, though, and no impact force. Firebird is a bit harder to counter, while vulcan is harder to avoid. Both could use a nerf.

[kydapoot 570]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Might have 1000 DPS against stationary targets but it likley drops for moving targets - the further away the greater the drop.

But if it had a slight nerf to damage it would still be a decent turret.

Agreed; moving around is one of the best ways to counter a vulcan. With the reinforced aiming transmission, though, the vulcan can function at close range and the 1000 DPS is much more consistent, and with Incendiary Band, you don't need a constant shot to deal lots of damage. The damage definitely doesn't need to be slashed, but maybe down to 900 or something? That's about what my half-upgraded Mk7 vulcan does, and it does just fine against Mk8 other turrets.

Edited May 25, 2020 by kydapoot

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

9 hours ago, PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA said:

Nerf Vulcan nuff said.

 

scrubs

(grabs cop porn)

Ok and you're over there using Gauss which actually does need a nerf.

 

Also nice way of spelling popcorn.

[wolverine848 13,097]

20 minutes ago, kydapoot said:

Agreed; moving around is one of the best ways to counter a vulcan. With the reinforced aiming transmission, though, the vulcan can function at close range and the 1000 DPS is much more consistent, and with Incendiary Band, you don't need a constant shot to deal lots of damage. The damage definitely doesn't need to be slashed, but maybe down to 900 or something? That's about what my half-upgraded Mk7 vulcan does, and it does just fine against Mk8 other turrets.

Yeah... 900-ish would not be bad I guess.

Incendiary-Band... they have broken the game again by allowing it to work with Heat Immunity.  (One of) the dumber decisions they have made recently.

[sharifsahaf 656]

13 hours ago, At_Shin said:

That sounds op on paper but actually, it is not that op. It takes a while for the dictator OD to recharge and the trickster done also has a long cool down period.

it is op when u learn to use trickster .its so underrated nobody buys it .but if properly used it could be super destructive .and i tried it out on the test servers ,it is op

[PEW_PEW_YO_MOMMA 93]

5 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Ok and you're over there using Gauss which actually does need a nerf.

 

Also nice way of spelling popcorn.

I'm ok with it being nerfed :), also this is my sub account for gauss, havent played for 3 weeks. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

2 hours ago, sharifsahaf said:

it is op when u learn to use trickster .its so underrated nobody buys it .but if properly used it could be super destructive .and i tried it out on the test servers ,it is op

I have it but unfortunately, Supplier is more practical for me. Speed Boost is usually the first supply I use after spawning if no enemy is around. I need speed to catch up to my teammates to heal them, and when I put Trickster on, I barely get value. Also Trickster is sort of defective at the moment. It's supposed to decrease the cooldown of speed boost when using other supplies, the same way it works for Booster Defender and Miner, but that doesn't happen with Trickster apparently and has been like this for a long while. 

 

Yes, Trickster is a drone that can be used solo and does not need upgrades to get its full effect, but I like to stick to teammates, and that's where I intend to use support drones - near my teammates. 

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

23 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

I don't have a problem with it and that's coming from a non Vulcan user. It's only really a problem with hornet OD or the dreaded incendiary band and fire immunity alterations duo. I know how to counter it when it's shooting at me.

Surprised many choose to complain about it when they keep getting wrecked by it rather than do a better job countering it.

As a Vulcan user, it's both. I don't use it with Hornet. I use it with Dictator and Wasp, and it's very effective outside of Overdrives. Those Hornet Vulcans have to collect Overdrive charge in the first place to get their OD charged. And then they let loose, get a teamwipe (8 kills total) which gives them ~70% Overdrive charge over the period of those 20 seconds. 

Vulcan's effectiveness outside of the Overdrives is high. Do you wonder why they're using Vulcan with Hornet? We know Hornet allows you to gt lots of kills nowadays with how it works, but why are they using Vulcan? Why is Vulcan hated when combined with Hornet. Why aren't these players using Smoky instead? Or Striker? Or Twins? Why is it Vulcan? 

 

Vulcan gains great efficiency from Mk1 to Mk8 with its DPS tripling. It's interesting that they went down this path instead of regular 2x increase in damage from Mk1 to Mk8. I assume it's due to it now having newly fixed parameters throughout the modifications (spin-up time and presumably the firing rate on some modifications). Out of the other DPS turrets, Firebird, Freeze and Isida, only Freeze and Isida have 2x increases for their damage output. Firebird's direct damage output increases by 350% due to it having so many fixed parameters (afterburn damage, energy consumption, energy recovery). 

The problem with Vulcan is more seen in the higher modifications. And if you're using a really high modification in the lower ranks, your advantage is even far greater. 

23 hours ago, DieselPlatinum said:

Surprised many choose to complain about it when they keep getting wrecked by it rather than do a better job countering it.

They usually come equipped with Defender, but even when they're not, they still dispose of enemies very quickly because it only takes 2 seconds for a heavy hull to be killed by one. So if this gets a flank on teams in Siege, it can your team will be wiped before you can properly react. 

 

Due to the fast firing rate, it has great stopping power to the enemy repair kits, and they'd only get 1,000 HP back, which is 1 more second of life if the Vulcan is close enough to you. But ah well it is balanced in the eyes of many apparently. I will just continue to get easy top spots with Vulcan until something changes. I've had a few Legend battles on my General account where more than half the enemy team had Vulcan protection, and I was still able to come first with a lot of kills. Protection definitely helps against Vulcan, but the turret itself is very strong. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by TheCongoSpider