Let's Discuss Vulcan!

[Lord-of-the-Snipers 1,620]

Lord_of_the_Snipers, If you add up my my M3 usage, I've used my other top  M3's 3 times as much as my Vulcan,  and my Rail most of all. True I have used my Vulcan quite a lot in the past when I fully upgraded my M2  to M3 power. But as I said in my post I rarely use it now because I have found that the upper Ranks stand up to it quite well and it has become easy to kill, So now my default gun is Smoky followed by Rail and Isada. I only pull the Vulcan out now when facing a lot of light hulls, which yes, a Vulcan can easily kill. Going up against Heavies I use Smoky, Rail or Isada depending on the map, even against Vulcans (when I can find them).... LOL .... Check out my Smoky usage . That has been in the last month. Pretty soon my Vulcan  will be rated #4 in usage because I've hardly used it in the last 3 months. Yes I loved using Vulcan and still do, but I'm going to use the weapon that gets me wins, and right now Vulcan ain't it. It's a middle of the pack weapon right now (Which I know because it is in my inventory and I use it). Maybe it'll be better when I finally get to official M3 level and can fully upgrade it. But like I said  I'm routinely killing M3/4's right now with my other weapons. So yes, I feel it is fine the way it stands.....hmmmmm...... well..... it might be slightly , and I do mean SLIGHTLY, under-powered right now due to it's weaknesses. But that's just the the little boy in me that always wishes his gun had just that little bit  more power. :)

 

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for answering.

Though I don 't have it in my garage, I 'm pretty confident that Vulcan M3 (you disagree, ok) and

certainly (close to) M4 it is quite a different story.

Just read this topic and you 'll see that even most Vulcan M3/M4 users confirm that it is OP.

Especially when you throw the following into the Vulcan: heavy hull, Firebird paint, DA and RK.

 

Personally I would already be happy with a nerf of it 's impact power.

So it 's not my idea to make it a useless powerless weapon,

only that you have a fair chance to fight it.

Especially when using a light hull, because Vulcan makes tumbleweed of those lightweights.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Lord-of-the-Snipers

[Dliver 436]

Personally I would already be happy with a nerf of it 's impact power.

So it 's not my idea to make it a useless powerless weapon,

only that you have a fair chance to fight it.

Especially when using a light hull, because Vulcan makes tumbleweed of those lightweights.

That is the one point that I will concede to you, but let's make sure what we're talking about when we talk about impact power. I will be basically talking about fully MU'd M3's for simplicity. Take for example Shaft. It has the most powerful impact of the game at 800 (one shot). Talk about flipping out light hulls. I don't know how many times I've been completely blown off the map if not out-rightly destroyed by one of these over-powered beasties.  Or how about Rails - impact 700(one shot). Once again for a light hull, if you survive the initial hit....nightmare city in the way it rocks you. And what about your favorite and mine... Smoky... Yes it has much less impact force (370) than Vulcan's(580) but I know that you have such a good kill record because you are constantly knocking people's aim off with each hit, and believe me that's the ability which makes Smoky, I believe the most dangerous weapon in Tanki. But that is with one hit, and that is where Vulcan is so much different from any other weapon in Tanki. So let's get down to the main reason everyone hates Vulcan. It's because, when firing, Vulcan's impact is continuous over a long period that drives people nuts. Not just with one hit one impact effect like the others I mentioned, but it does go on and on.  So I grant you that point on it's continuous impact force, and I would even agree that it might be a good idea to nerf it's impact force. PROVIDED (notice the all capitals for emphasis) that with that nerf  the terrible nerf on long distance damage is removed to a small degree. Say going from 25% damage long range to 30 or 35%. Because that is where Vulcan's get nailed the most. When they expose themselves for long periods of time to have a chance at a long range kill. They are easily taken out by long distance fire from Rails and Shafts, which have no such long distance nerfs on their long range damage. Also shorter range weapons all open fire too. Vulcan's are horrible gang up magnets. Everyone tries to take them out. 

 

Lastly, I know you know, only 3 weapons don't knock light hulls around. Isada, freeze and firebird. I don't know how many times I've crashed or been rolled because of hit's by the others. So Vulcan isn't the only one, just the most irritating.

Also Shafts and Rails even knock Mammoths around. I don't know how many times I've beaten them by doing just that to them.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Dliver

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

Vulcan sucks at short range, just circle around them. Hammer, rico or twins is best because it deals damage quickly, and zeus/inferno/lumber doesnt protect against them

[Lord-of-the-Snipers 1,620]

That is the one point that I will concede to you, but let's make sure what we're talking about when we talk about impact power. I will be basically talking about fully MU'd M3's for simplicity. Take for example Shaft. It has the most powerful impact of the game at 800 (one shot). Talk about flipping out light hulls. I don't know how many times I've been completely blown off the map if not out-rightly destroyed by one of these over-powered beasties.  Or how about Rails - impact 700(one shot). Once again for a light hull, if you survive the initial hit....nightmare city in the way it rocks you. And what about your favorite and mine... Smoky... Yes it has much less impact force (370) than Vulcan's(580) but I know that you have such a good kill record because you are constantly knocking people's aim off with each hit, and believe me that's the ability which makes Smoky, I believe the most dangerous weapon in Tanki. But that is with one hit, and that is where Vulcan is so much different from any other weapon in Tanki. So let's get down to the main reason everyone hates Vulcan. It's because, when firing, Vulcan's impact is continuous over a long period that drives people nuts. Not just with one hit one impact effect like the others I mentioned, but it does go on and on.  So I grant you that point on it's continuous impact force, and I would even agree that it might be a good idea to nerf it's impact force. PROVIDED (notice the all capitals for emphasis) that with that nerf  the terrible nerf on long distance damage is removed to a small degree. Say going from 25% damage long range to 30 or 35%. Because that is where Vulcan's get nailed the most. When they expose themselves for long periods of time to have a chance at a long range kill. They are easily taken out by long distance fire from Rails and Shafts, which have no such long distance nerfs on their long range damage. Also shorter range weapons all open fire too. Vulcan's are horrible gang up magnets. Everyone tries to take them out. 

 

Lastly, I know you know, only 3 weapons don't knock light hulls around. Isada, freeze and firebird. I don't know how many times I've crashed or been rolled because of hit's by the others. So Vulcan isn't the only one, just the most irritating.

Also Shafts and Rails even knock Mammoths around. I don't know how many times I've beaten them by doing just that to them.

Your explanation is really much better than mine, so I will quote you:

"Vulcan's impact is continuous over a long period that drives people nuts.

Not just with one hit one impact effect like the others I mentioned, but it does go on and on. 

So I grant you that point on it's continuous impact force,

and I would even agree that it might be a good idea to nerf it's impact force."

 

That 's exactly the problem. A nerf on the impact force could fix this.

You want in return a bit more damage over distance, well it 's continuous damage as well:

but I might like the idea if it gets combined with a faster heat up time or something like that.

 

I like the idea of a new Vulcan that deals more damage over distance, but has impact force

to a level that Wasps and Hornets also have a fair chance to get out of harms way.

Because it also heats up faster it would become less suitable for continuous camping, 

making it a much more refined weapon.

You could even shorten the spin-up/spin-down time, to make it easier to regain shooting.

 

On a sidenote: TO should find a way to shorten the firing time of the OP+ heavy hull M3/M4 Vulcans. 

Somewhere there has to be a maximum time of firing or another solution:

because with a heavy hull, DA and a Firebird paint the firing time of Vulcan M3/M4 is way too long.

Not even mentioning the repair kit to start the whole proces all over again.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Lord-of-the-Snipers

[Dliver 436]

That 's exactly the problem. A nerf on the impact force could fix this.

You want in return a bit more damage over distance, well it 's continuous damage as well:

but I might like the idea if it gets combined with a faster heat up time or something like that.

 

I like the idea of a new Vulcan that deals more damage over distance, but has impact force

to a level that Wasps and Hornets also have a fair chance to get out of harms way.

Because it also heats up faster it would become less suitable for continuous camping,

making it a much more refined weapon.

You could even shorten the spin-up/spin-down time, to make it easier to regain shooting.

So I think we've found some agreement. Nerf the impact, and I think the compensation by increasing long range power would would be the best compromise to compensate the lowering of its impact power. If you try to fine tune it too much then you start over thinking the problem and try to get too fancy in your solution. So to reiterate areas of possible agreement - Lower the impact, to give smaller hulls a better chance. Then increase slightly long range damage to compensate and help with survive-ability from weapons whose aim it can no longer knock off with it's lower impact power. I think this would make for a nice compromise.

 

Just remember too, touching on your point of continuous damage. Isada, Freeze and Firebird deal continuous damage too. Especially Firebird, with it's after-burn feature. Talk about an over-powered weapon at M4, that is definitely one. Also I know I drive even big hull drivers nuts with my Isada because of it's self heal feature. I love rolling up to a mammoth, with it's giant gun, in my little hornet and sucking the life out of it as it pumps shot after shot into me and I still come away with full health. Then Freeze, I hate it when they sneak up from behind and you can do nothing to get at them because you're frozen watching your hit points going away. So if they were ever to do what we're talking about here, just view Vulcan as a long range firebird without the after burn. With the lower impact power it would give people a chance to get away just like we all do now with Isada, Firebird and Freeze.

 

I would still have to think about the heat-up faster compensated by quicker spin-up and spin-down times change. I can see it might be OK if not taken too far. Quicker spin-up and spin-down times definitely would make it a much better pop-out, fire, then hide weapon. But I think If your going to have quicker heat-up times you would have to also compensate with quicker cool down times to encourage a person to stop firing too, thus avoiding self inflicted damage. As you can see, like I mentioned earlier, once you start changing one parameter then you open up a whole can of worms and it turns into a mess. So I say just keep it simple, lower impact, increase long distance damage. That in itself would solve most of the problems that people complain about on both sides of the the issue.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Dliver

[GeneralNemesis 497]

anyone whp says an m3/m4 vulcan is weak is out ofmhis mind. i can get a kill death ratio of 10.00 to 30.00 with vulcan mammy inferno and a few supplies

[Dliver 436]

anyone whp says an m3/m4 vulcan is weak is out ofmhis mind. i can get a kill death ratio of 10.00 to 30.00 with vulcan mammy inferno and a few supplies

I'm using a fully MU'd M2 Vulcan on a Viking or Hunter and occasionally Titan hulls. I prefer the Viking and Hunter hulls because I like moving around the battlefield instead of camping.

 

The fully MU'd Vulcan is supposedly the equivalent of a plain M3, and I feel it is a little under powered when in a fight with all Marshall and above ranked players. In that situation it just can't take people out quickly enough to survive for long (with or w/o drugs) in a fight where all of them are using M3/M4 equipment. I can't speak, of course, about an upgraded M3 Vulcan since I don't have one yet.

 

Now in a fight with mixed ranks and a lot of light hulls it does OK.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Dliver

[forums.data.bg 82]

I don`t know for the m3 version,but m2 is so crappy.It is so slow (slow starting fire then it needs again time to stop and again to start firing...And you need heavy hull,because the selfdstruct which means that you are so slow even when you maneuver or move.It has slow rotating speed,so every noob with faster hull can reach you and kill you like a *****.The players with light hulls are shooting and then hidding from vulcans,so they can`t react because the slow starting and turning off speed of shooting...I use vulcan for daily missions like earn exp in sandbpx,polygon and DM (in small maps) because shaft is not close range weapon.With shaft you make score like 45/5 (for 15 min),with vulcan you make 12/20 (or something like this negative score).So don`t say vulcan is so mighty weapong,because the maps where you can sit and fire like a mad and the enemy can`t reach you easily are 1-2?? This is my worst purchase ever,even for 60k with the discount.But i wanted some turret for my mamuth m2,so which m2 is better for mamuth m2 instead vulcan ? Vulcan.

Edited April 26, 2016 by forums.data.bg

[The-Operator219 1,929]

Slow? It turns at the rate of Freeze!  :blink:

And upgrading it doesn't change the speed it revs up and stops spinning.

[forums.data.bg 82]

"Turret's rotation speed decreases when shooting. :blink:

[The-Operator219 1,929]

Oh boo-hoo!

What, did you expect an easy-to-use turret? Go back to Twins if this is such a big issue.

[Dliver 436]

Oh boo-hoo!

What, did you expect an easy-to-use turret? Go back to Twins if this is such a big issue.

You hit the nail on the head. Vulcan takes a lot of skill to be used effectively. Anyone can rack up kills using a heavy hull and most turrets. But let a skilled player enter the game and pretty soon those guys leave because they can't take being taken out over and over again in by a guy in a lighter hull. I really love going after the guys who camp out with their Vulcan/Mammoth combo with my Vulcan/Hunter combo and show them how a Vulcan should be used. For that matter I have used Smokey, Rail and Isada to do the same thing. It never fails, in most cases that guy will leave before the game is over.

 

So now I will make this argument again to those always whining about Vulcans... If Vulcan is such an overpowering beast why don't you see more of them. I think the only turret used less, if it isn't Vulcan, is maybe freeze. I see every other turret a lot more in battles than I do Vulcan.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Dliver

[Typo 1,299]

." If Vulcan is such an overpowering beast why don't you see more of them."

There are a LOT of Vulcans in drug wars and pro battles.  For instance yesterday I was in a 4v4 battle and the entire team of ours was composed of Vulcans! People don't use M2 much because M2 Vulcan is pretty bad compared to the other weapons. On the other hand there are a lot of Africas and Red Suits these days to balance things out.

[W6N 39]

password : GRAFFITI

the impact force still a huge problem

[Dliver 436]

 

 

There are a LOT of Vulcans in drug wars and pro battles.  For instance yesterday I was in a 4v4 battle and the entire team of ours was composed of Vulcans! People don't use M2 much because M2 Vulcan is pretty bad compared to the other weapons. On the other hand there are a lot of Africas and Red Suits these days to balance things out.[/color]

I guess your experience is quite different than mine. I don't run across them much yet, and I've been playing quite awhile. Edited April 28, 2016 by Dliver

[The-Operator219 1,929]

Actually M2 is amazing when it unlocks, but M3 comes late and it's weak against other M3s.

People think the auto-aim locks onto anyone in roughly the same suburb, but they're wrong.

Yes, this will shock you, but we DO have to aim.

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

Weak? Hahahahaha

[Dliver 436]

I just got my M3 Vulcan did some mu's and so far I've not been overly impressed. Everyone keeps saying just use firebird protection paint, and that does work until every Shaft and Rail opens up on you. You see, what the complainers of Vulcan always fail to point out, when they complain about Vulcan's continuous fire, is that if you use the paints that make that possible, then you are pretty much completely naked to almost every other weapon out there because most anti-firebird paints really don't provide good protection from the most powerful long range weapons out there. So almost all of Vulcan's advantages are negated. Especially in the higher ranks where you begin seeing some good anti-vulcan paints.

 

Where Vulcan actually does shine though is in team support. It is a very disruptive weapon to the other team when used properly. When engaging multiple targets, it keeps the other guys from focusing all their fire on just one guy, because a Vulcan keeps them ducking for cover. They get that opportunity because a Vulcan can hardly ever kill anything quickly.

 

So, while it is a weapon that I like to use because of the irritation factor it provides to other players, it really isn't the beast so many anti-vulcan complainers try to make it out to be.

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

Exactly. Vulcan sucks at DMs... Only good if you camp.

 

I like it to irritate too. I flip tanks the are flying after taking a ramp too fast, and the constant decrease in health it deals is annoying too. BUT it becomes very weak againt 25% or higher paints.

[Dliver 436]

I think I finally figured it out . When they nerfed Vulcan they kept the high impact as an offset. Because I'll tell you what, even with a few MU's it still has problems taking out M2 or higher equipment. That reduction down to 25% distance damage really pulled it's teeth. Rail, Shaft, and even Smokey are much more deadly than it is and I've found that they kick you around a lot more violently than a Vulcan does. I've been playing with it for a solid 5 hours the last 2 days and it can barely hold it's own with equivalent or higher ranks. Still fun to play with because I like a challenge, but it's a ho-hum weapon as far as deadliness is concerned. Yes it can push people around, but I would worry more about Shafts, Rails and Smokies.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Dliver

[Creepernan8820 21]

I like this turret cos of its rapid fire rate and u don't need 2 be a high rank for it 

[RAG1NG 4]

That reduction down to 25% distance damage really pulled it's teeth.

it was a necessary change.

 

right now, its very similar to Twins, let me write my comparison (let me know if there's something I missed):

Twins pros: 1higher DPS around 15m (15m is when its shots starts to do less damage, doing 20% damage at max range), 2plenty of knockback that actually messes up someone's aim, 3no re-charge or charge-up.

Twins cons: 1short range and massive damage drop (being 80% less at max range as said above), 2big bullets easily blocked by destroyed and allied tanks, 3slow bullets.

 

Vulcan pros: 1longer range resulting to better DPS at range, 2instant hit bullets, 3shots can hit enemy tank as long as you have line of sight (destroyed and allied tanks does block your shot, but even if there is a tiny part of the enemy tank you have line of sight on, you can hit it since the bullets doesn't have radius), 4gyroscopic aim prevents enemy from knocking off your aim, 5can damage almost anything it can see (due to unlimited range and great auto-aim angles).

Vulcan cons: 1slightly less short range DPS, 2some spin-up delays damage output (better than railgun's charge-up at higher ranks), 3needs to charge-up or you will take overheating damage (can be mitigated by Firebird protection or Freeze allies), 4slow traverse while firing.

 

while Twins does have the raw firepower advantage, Vulcan's cons is covered by its pros leaving the player to abuse the pros unlike with Twins where you can't do much when something is blocking your shots.

 

 

there are a few things I don't quite understand regarding Vulcan just by checking the Wiki or by playing it:

how long can it fire before overheating (all ranks, not just M3)? - is it the  Time taken to heat (s) stat?

how overheated can it get (all ranks, not just M3)? - damage received and time before completely cooling it off.

how long does it take to fully recharge when all charge is spent (all ranks, not just M3)?

Edited April 30, 2016 by RAG1NG

[Typo 1,299]

there are a few things I don't quite understand regarding Vulcan just by checking the Wiki or by playing it:

1.how long can it fire before overheating (all ranks, not just M3)? - is it the  Time taken to heat (s) stat?

2.how overheated can it get (all ranks, not just M3)? - damage received and 3.time before completely cooling it off.

4.how long does it take to fully recharge when all charge is spent (all ranks, not just M3)?

1. Yes

2. Vulcan's overheating is similar to Firebird's afterbrun and if I'm not wrong max afterburn damage(at M4) is 30 HP/s which is achieved in 4s.      (They told that in a certain VLOG). Assuming you don't have any protection.

3.Not sure so can't say. 

4. You need to wait for the barrels to stop spinning and start firing. So add the spin-up and spin-down times.

[RAG1NG 4]

2. Vulcan's overheating is similar to Firebird's afterbrun and if I'm not wrong max afterburn damage(at M4) is 30 HP/s which is achieved in 4s.      (They told that in a certain VLOG). Assuming you don't have any protection.

4. You need to wait for the barrels to stop spinning and start firing. So add the spin-up and spin-down times.

add the spin-up and down to what? I don't see any reload stat or amount of energy + energy recharge rate (firebird/freeze/etc. has this as reload stat).

 

are you saying a Vulcan M4 with Wasp M4 will self-destruct within 17 seconds (7 seconds no overheat firing + 1 second spin-up)?

[Dliver 436]

it was a necessary change.

 

right now, its very similar to Twins, let me write my comparison (let me know if there's something I missed):

Twins pros: 1higher DPS around 15m (15m is when its shots starts to do less damage, doing 20% damage at max range), 2plenty of knockback that actually messes up someone's aim, 3no re-charge or charge-up.

Twins cons: 1short range and massive damage drop (being 80% less at max range as said above), 2big bullets easily blocked by destroyed and allied tanks, 3slow bullets.

 

Vulcan pros: 1longer range resulting to better DPS at range, 2instant hit bullets, 3shots can hit enemy tank as long as you have line of sight (destroyed and allied tanks does block your shot, but even if there is a tiny part of the enemy tank you have line of sight on, you can hit it since the bullets doesn't have radius), 4gyroscopic aim prevents enemy from knocking off your aim, 5can damage almost anything it can see (due to unlimited range and great auto-aim angles).

Vulcan cons: 1slightly less short range DPS, 2some spin-up delays damage output (better than railgun's charge-up at higher ranks), 3needs to charge-up or you will take overheating damage (can be mitigated by Firebird protection or Freeze allies), 4slow traverse while firing.

 

while Twins does have the raw firepower advantage, Vulcan's cons is covered by its pros leaving the player to abuse the pros unlike with Twins where you can't do much when something is blocking your shots.

Comparing Vulcan and Twins is like comparing apples and oranges. Really there is no comparison. 2 totally different types of weapons

 

Twins is a short to mid-range weapon that has immediate fire, Continuous firing with no heat penalty like Vulcan (I don't know how many times I see someone with Twins just keep their thumb on the space bar, running around on continuous fire mode) and it only takes a 1 point nerf going from close range to max range (Look at the wika, M4 Twins only drops 1 point, all the other levels a 2 to 3 point drop, not an 80 percent drop). Granted Vulcan has higher close in damage power but the turret moves like it is stuck in mud when firing thus allowing people to just do death spirals around them. Twins have a very fast transverse thus able to keep on target and protect themselves. So with M4 Vulcan with a 75% drop in power you go from 60 point damage per second at short range down to 15 points at long range. With M4 Twins you go from  21 down to 20 points with no heat penalty and that's not per second. Because of rate of fire a twins may put out 40 to 60 points of damage per second, and that's max range. Just keep you thumb on the bar Baby!!!

 

Now let's compare a Rail to them. In the 6 seconds time a  M4 Vulcan can deal out 90 points max  long range damage and a M4 Twins 240  points max (figuring 40 points per second)(it should also be noted that that Vulcan is sitting out in the open that whole 6 seconds), a M4 Rail can deal out 398 points max in that same 6 seconds while popping in and out of cover, and not just to 1 opponent but to 2 if they line up.( It should be noted that that is LONG range damage.) You see an M4 Rail has 100% penetrating power too. So the poor guy hiding behind the main target gets the same damage too. That's why you see Rails getting so many double kills. Now let's compare when they activate double power. A Rail goes up to 796 points of max damage per target (up to 2 if they line up). How does that compare to  Vulcan's paltry 90 or even 180 max damage with double damage in a 6 second period? So please don't tell me Vulcan's positives out weigh it's negatives. It's an OK weapon that is fun to use and can hold it's own if used in a smart way.

 

The only way they are alike is at long range. They're both are easy to kill. And that is my whole point. Vulcan is supposed to be a long range weapon and it has to sit there forever, in the open, to kill anything. At least Twins on a fast hull can move around, and with it's impact power, cause people to miss. Also with immediate firing it's a very good bush-wacker weapon ( Vulcan has the long spin up and spin down times). At long range Vulcan's Impact power has very little effect on aim (Close up, yes it can knock people around). Plus the distance is long enough that people can easily adjust their aim to compensate for movement. 

 

One last thing. Just like with Twins, a Vulcan's fire can be blocked by teammates and other hulls (even when you are waiting for a kill to disappear).

 

So the point is, you are comparing  Vulcans and Twins, oh I mean apples and oranges. Yes Vulcan is overall a better weapon than Twins. That"s why I use Vulcan instead of Twins. And it's more fun to use to boot. But they aren't the same type of weapon. If you are going to do comparisons, compare it to Rail, Shaft or Smokey. They have more similarities than  Twins/Vulcan.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Dliver