Reduce power of garage supplies

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Thank you Fog!

Yes I do like to hear that!!!

I already pop to EN3 everytime to see what happens and even if I am a noise lover and have some problems on larger maps, I joined some sepurhov created by Rohr.

Just to point it out, it is Rohr idea, even if I fully agree with it and I will do my best to promote it!!!

Thank you

B.

Well then, apologies to Rohr.  Rohr, good idea, Brubook, good marketing of it.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

This post can be inserted in the "Another sad day in Tanki" series!

 

 

Dear Kirby2008

 

Today you saw the reason why I dislike excessive drugging!

 

30 min Noise battle:

 

Red team (yours) drugged like hell and blues were forced to leave! Nice ... very nice (ironic)!

By the way the only way to oppose to that typhoon was drugging back like hell ... not the way it should be!! Not the kind of play I like to be in!

 

Then your team capped tons of flags in a 8 vs 1 situation (very sportive playing!! congrats) .... than you beg your team mates to come over on my team .... but .... I don't need charity, Kirby! I prefer to die alone!

Just to point it out, it was kind of you to do that, but I still live with my pride!

Let's note that with a 8 vs 1 situation, your team was still drugging.

 

Now think that all the blue players who went out are sad, unsatisfied and frustrated ... think about it!

Because that is the feeling after a "battle" like that ... a battle that was 8 minutes of insane drugging, 5 minutes where all your team was killing me (still drugged) and 17 minutes of boredom of your team playing with their own fingers (8 vs 0)!

 

Is really this the Tanki you want? Is really this the model battle you can call "battle"? Is really pressing numbers make you feel PRO?

 

Have a think about these questions!

 

B.

We took over the game fair and square :) which is why your team left I guess. We then switched to your team to play for you and keep the game alive, but you promptly left.

 

Agreed, there's no need to drug when it's 8v1 :) and I wasn't. If you read the chat i even encouraged my teammates not to :p so I don't like how you are holding me accountable for what my team did.

 

BUT drugging before that is not unsporting at all, and that's the game! You should start to use your drugs before while the game is going on, rather than sit, chat, be a mult in the game and then complain when your teammates have all left. You yourself have 2000+ drugs, that's over ten times the amount I have :p

 

Drugging is just a pet of a game, I don't understand why people don't get that? I've never bought drugs ever - you get them completely free :p use them!

[Brubook 1,161]

And you can not even surrender at the moment..

LOL

[Pathfinder 1,690]

I can't think of a parallel more similar than to rugby. Tackling is an innate part of rugby, as drugs are an innate part of Tanki.

 

Some don't like the physicality of tackling, so you can play without it in touch-rugby. That's fine, but you can't then turn around and request for tackling to be removed from rugby as a rule, since that's just part of the game! Tackling in rugby is "the only way to win" in rugby - do you propose we change that too?

 

The same thing exists in Tanki. If you don't like it, go play PRO. It was created specifically for that purpose :) but you can't turn around and roast someone for drugging, when it's just the game.

[Brubook 1,161]

We took over the game fair and square :) which is why your team left I guess. We then switched to your team to play for you and keep the game alive, but you promptly left.

 

Agreed, there's no need to drug when it's 8v1 :) and I wasn't. If you read the chat i even encouraged my teammates not to :P but drugging before that is not unsporting at all, and that's the game! You should start to use your drugs before while e game is going on, rather than sit, chat, be a must in the game and then complain when your teammates have all left.

Fair, square and overdrugged! Team left probably because disagree with that drugs usage, or feared that overwhelming devastating overpower.

You switched to keep game alive ... at 13-2 ??? Game alive? Serious?? Or prolonging a already LOST battle? With that rate of drugging even a 5 vs 5 equal teams cannot make 11 flags in 17 minutes!!! So, what is the point to be a spectator of a lost battle? Would you like to be in that situation?

I appreciated your switch (as I said), but I was there only to finish the conversation with you! You should have imagined it .... numbers told that!

 

I don't like to be in a lost battle where I have NO chance to win or to make any difference to it ... I am not a spectator, and that is how I felt (as probably many players who left).

 

I am not accusing you of unsporting, I accused your teammates that in 8 vs 1 were drugging, capping and killing me all the time. That was unsportive, weird and awful.

 

And I am not sitting in a battle, I started chatting with you when we were 8 players vs 1 ... ME!   8 vs 1 ... I DID think it was GAME OVER!!!!

In a normal battle (of moderate drugging) or a pro (if with drugs off) I am most of the times in the first score positions, so I think I am quite active.

And please ... don't be hypocrite saying that "I was sit and complaining" ... on a 8 vs 1 battle!!! Don't ask me to fight alone against 8 druggers (maybe 7 if I exclude you ... just for the sake of serene conversation).

 

And finally, I am not accusing you do do something against the rules (which is not) ... if you read this discussion (the first 2 posts are enough) my problem is the overpowering of drugs, the excessive, exaggerated, overwhelming, devastating and unbalancing power of drugs. This is my point, not the players that use (or abuse in this case) them!

 

B.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Fair, square and overdrugged! Team left probably because disagree with that drugs usage, or feared that overwhelming devastating overpower.

You switched to keep game alive ... at 13-2 ??? Game alive? Serious?? Or prolonging a already LOST battle? With that rate of drugging even a 5 vs 5 equal teams cannot make 11 flags in 17 minutes!!! So, what is the point to be a spectator of a lost battle? Would you like to be in that situation?

I appreciated your switch (as I said), but I was there only to finish the conversation with you! You should have imagined it .... numbers told that!

 

I don't like to be in a lost battle where I have NO chance to win or to make any difference to it ... I am not a spectator, and that is how I felt (as probably many players who left).

 

I am not accusing you of unsporting, I accused your teammates that in 8 vs 1 were drugging, capping and killing me all the time. That was unsportive, weird and awful.

 

And I am not sitting in a battle, I started chatting with you when we were 8 players vs 1 ... ME! 8 vs 1 ... I DID think it was GAME OVER!!!!

In a normal battle (of moderate drugging) or a pro (if with drugs off) I am most of the times in the first score positions, so I think I am quite active.

And please ... don't be hypocrite saying that "I was sit and complaining" ... on a 8 vs 1 battle!!! Don't ask me to fight alone against 8 druggers (maybe 7 if I exclude you ... just for the sake of serene conversation).

 

And finally, I am not accusing you do do something against the rules (which is not) ... if you read this discussion (the first 2 posts are enough) my problem is the overpowering of drugs, the excessive, exaggerated, overwhelming, devastating and unbalancing power of drugs. This is my point, not the players that use (or abuse in this case) them!

 

B.

We ended up winning, by a considerable margin actually :p 13-2 is not so big a margin for 15 minutes, especially on a map as small as Noise. I think the final score was 27-13 or something around that mark.

 

Yeah no worries, im not worried about you accusing me of anything, because I don't believe anything I did was against the rules or even remotely unjustified :)

 

Totally get you, I think I agree to an extent that drugs are almost a necessity now in games. You can argue that, but accusations on my team for simply the USE of something that's just part of the game, is not very nice.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

That's really a poor analogy.

 

It would be more appropriate to say that drugging in Tanki would be like playing rugby with guys who get gamma ray injections to become the Incredible Hulk for 45 seconds so they can mow down the other team in order to score more easily.

 

If your answer is to respond to drugging by drugging then why have drugs in the first place? If everyone has the opportunity to become the Incredible Hulk on the rugby field then why bother doing it in the first place?

 

Well, we all know the answer and reason for that.

 

By giving a few away for free everyday it's no different than the drug dealer on the corner giving out free heroin shots daily. Eventually the hope is to get people addicted so they spend money.

[hesham_king 11]

Well Tanki made a new supplies system.It's way better now than old days.I think we have to thank them for it and not to complain more and more.You hate druggers? Then buy drugs and kill them Or go to pro battle that's it.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

That's really a poor analogy.

 

It would be more appropriate to say that drugging in Tanki would be like playing rugby with guys who get gamma ray injections to become the Incredible Hulk for 45 seconds so they can mow down the other team in order to score more easily.

 

I disagree. Drugging is a legitimate part of Tanki, it's part of the game. Are gamma ray injections?

[Pathfinder 1,690]

By giving a few away for free everyday it's no different than the drug dealer on the corner giving out free heroin shots daily. Eventually the hope is to get people addicted so they spend money.

This might hold truth, Tanki wants to make its money. The game is becoming more and more expensive to play - more weapons, microupgrades, but even then you can't blame them for doing that :p

[Brubook 1,161]

I can't think of a parallel more similar than to rugby. Tackling is an innate part of rugby, as drugs are an innate part of Tanki.

 

Some don't like the physicality of tackling, so you can play without it in touch-rugby. That's fine, but you can't then turn around and request for tackling to be removed from rugby as a rule, since that's just part of the game! Tackling in rugby is "the only way to win" in rugby - do you propose we change that too?

 

The same thing exists in Tanki. If you don't like it, go play PRO. It was created specifically for that purpose :) but you can't turn around and roast someone for drugging, when it's just the game.

 

You say "go PRO" on one hand, and permanently promote drugs on the other (I am assimilating you with devs). Beside, as tons of posts here described, PRO battles are rare, among them is even more rare to find a NO DRUG one, and even more rare to find a "human" one (no 999 flags or 500 minutes). Let's take off the XP/BP (that is only my taste) and there are no as much pro as you maybe imagine. Not talking about the price of pro pass and the impossibility of play a pro battle under the last 4 ranks.

 

A comparison with rugby is a bit stretched concept. But even if you compare Tanki with something that have much more history like Formula 1 or even a country Constitution Act, you will see that they both are adjusted with time, with progress, with new situation needs.

 

Contrasting with De Beers, nothing is forever!!! And again, change or growth is the tangible sign of cleverness.

 

Finally, we are talking about a business, and a business like this is based on "Customers satisfaction". This excessive drugs overpower, under my point of view (and fortunately not only mine), lower down the satisfaction level a lot. Less satisfaction, less players and less payers (as percentage of players). Also less payers as they need the players too (the critical mass)!!

[Pathfinder 1,690]

You say "go PRO" on one hand, and permanently promote drugs on the other (I am assimilating you with devs). Beside, as tons of posts here described, PRO battles are rare, among them is even more rare to find a NO DRUG one, and even more rare to find a "human" one (no 999 flags or 500 minutes). Let's take off the XP/BP (that is only my taste) and there are no as much pro as you maybe imagine. Not talking about the price of pro pass and the impossibility of play a pro battle under the last 4 ranks.

 

A comparison with rugby is a bit stretched concept. But even if you compare Tanki with something that have much more history like Formula 1 or even a country Constitution Act, you will see that they both are adjusted with time, with progress, with new situation needs.

 

Contrasting with De Beers, nothing is forever!!! And again, change or growth is the tangible sign of cleverness.

 

Finally, we are talking about a business, and a business like this is based on "Customers satisfaction". This excessive drugs overpower, under my point of view (and fortunately not only mine), lower down the satisfaction level a lot. Less satisfaction, less players and less payers (as percentage of players). Also less payers as they need the players too (the critical mass)!!

I play all sorts of different games, but the choice there is yours: you can choose to play one or another.

 

I'd rather you don't associate me with a developer, because I'm a player really :p im speaking from the same perspective as any player in the game - im not obliged to support every decision Tanki makes.

 

PRO battles at that are regular are rare, i think you're definitely right there. Maybe lower pass prices or indeed making them free might help.

[RustyNail 1,538]

...

 

BUT drugging before that is not unsporting at all, and that's the game! You should start to use your drugs...

 

Drugging is just a pet of a game, I don't understand why people don't get that? I've never bought drugs ever - you get them completely free :P use them!

 

Tell me something... you 're Tanki staff. What do you get from them? Do you do it for free, nothing in exchange?

 

 

... drugs are an innate part of Tanki.

 

 If you don't like it, go play PRO. It was created specifically for that purpose :) but you can't turn around and roast someone for drugging, when it's just the game.

No it's not.

 

Drugging has been made a "must" in Tanki, but  supplies from daily bonus does't last for long. So, if you want to move on you have to buy  supplies. But, then it's not a free-to-play-game, is it?

No it's not.

 

Tanki sells all four parameters of power: tanks, paints, MUs and supplies. Top buyers can be slaughter machines and any non buyer in their way is just meat.

Even small time buyers like me become also meat for those top buyers. So why should I keep paying Tanki?

It's unethical, very unsporting and petty. Also, a poor marketing solution, for what matters.

 

Finally, you say "go pro". Ok. Give me a free pro pass and I'll go pro. Have me buy it and we go back to pay-to-play game.

 

^_^

[Brubook 1,161]

We ended up winning, by a considerable margin actually :P 13-2 is not so big a margin for 15 minutes, especially on a map as small as Noise. I think the final score was 27-13 or something around that mark.

 

Yeah no worries, im not worried about you accusing me of anything, because I don't believe anything I did was against the rules or even remotely unjustified :)

 

Totally get you, I think I agree to an extent that drugs are almost a necessity now in games. You can argue that, but accusations on my team for simply the USE of something that's just part of the game, is not very nice.

Sorry, I disagree on this (I mean the first sentence)!

 

All the times I played PRO battles in Noise, to cap 1 flag could take from 30 to 60 minutes. We played for 3 hours once for 1 flag. Beside the fact that I hate that (no time limit), but 10 flags in 15 minutes means that there is something wrong!!!

 

Yes, you are right. Drugs are necessary to play ... and that is exactly what is wrong in it! No drugs (i.e. no money), no win! This is what is wrong!

The drugs excessive power overcome tactics, skills, team play ... everything! That is why I consider them excessive.

 

Someone here said that they are the "salt n pepper" of a battle, and I would fully agree with drugs if they were like that! Now drugs are a complete dinner (starter, wine, coffee and whisky included ... with salt n pepper on top)!! I would love that drugs could start to be the spice of the game!! This is the point!

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Tell me something... you 're Tanki staff. What do you get from them? Do you do it for free, nothing in exchange?

 

 

 

No it's not.

 

Drugging has been made a "must" in Tanki, but  supplies from daily bonus does't last for long. So, if you want to move on you have to buy  supplies. But, then it's not a free-to-play-game, is it?

No it's not.

 

Tanki sells all four parameters of power: tanks, paints, MUs and supplies. Top buyers can be slaughter machines and any non buyer in their way is just meat.

Even small time buyers like me become also meat for those top buyers. So why should I keep paying Tanki?

It's unethical, very unsporting and petty. Also, a poor marketing solution, for what matters.

 

Finally, you say "go pro". Ok. Give me a free pro pass and I'll go pro. Have me buy it and we go back to pay-to-play game.

 

^_^

I never have bought drugs, that's my point :) but I don't play much, so I guess you're right...

 

Is free-to-play defined as not spending crystals? Or not spending money?

 

I can see your points though, buyers will always have an advantage, as with any game.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

Sorry, I disagree on this (I mean the first sentence)!

 

All the times I played PRO battles in Noise, to cap 1 flag could take from 30 to 60 minutes. We played for 3 hours once for 1 flag. Beside the fact that I hate that (no time limit), but 10 flags in 15 minutes means that there is something wrong!!!

 

Yes, you are right. Drugs are necessary to play ... and that is exactly what is wrong in it! No drugs (i.e. no money), no win! This is what is wrong!

The drugs excessive power overcome tactics, skills, team play ... everything! That is why I consider them excessive.

 

Someone here said that they are the "salt n pepper" of a battle, and I would fully agree with drugs if they were like that! Now drugs are a complete dinner (starter, wine, coffee and whisky included ... with salt n pepper on top)!! I would love that drugs could start to be the spice of the game!! This is the point!

The pace of PRO battles is a lot slower indeed

 

Hehe I like that :lol: i guess you're right, if you play a lot daily bonus drugs aren't enough, and you need drugs to survive. Opened my perspective, thanks :)

[RustyNail 1,538]

...

Someone here said that they are the "salt n pepper" of a battle, ...

 

LOL that was me.. :)

Salt and pepper are meant to be used in small doses... in overdose they are bad for health... power ons are meant to be en extra that temporarily unbalances the battle, (the expression is "shake the battle a little") making it less boring and flat. But if they are used constantly, then where's the temporary character? Gone.  Thus, a new flat line is produced, in favour of the ones always on power ups.

Good for Tanki wallet, bad for many players.

[RustyNail 1,538]

I never have bought drugs, that's my point :) but I don't play much, so I guess you're right...

 

Is free-to-play defined as not spending crystals? Or not spending money?

 

I can see your points though, buyers will always have an advantage, as with any game.

 

You didn't answered my question... don't they give you something for being a staff member?

 

And the important point in what you said is "how big should be the advantage a top buyer can have?" I admitt it it's only fair for buyers to have an advantage.... but not up to the point that nobody else can face them.... not to the point that whole battles are ruined just because of a paying bully that uses top gear + constant drugging...

There should be "full drugging" battles in Pro setting, where top buyers can face each other... Isn't this a good solution?

[creeperskelly 1,281]

This might hold truth, Tanki wants to make its money. The game is becoming more and more expensive to play - more weapons, microupgrades, but even then you can't blame them for doing that :P

As a business owner I fully understand the need to make money.

 

As I pointed out it takes about $700 USD to "purchase" a fully upgraded M3+ turret/hull combination. I have the money to do this if I chose, but, it makes no logical sense to spend this on a game.

 

Drugs give even the lowest level combos a similar amount of power for a brief time.

 

In my experience it takes about 45 seconds to travel from one flag base to the other (assuming one starts off with nitro first).

 

If one fully drugs for 45 seconds (including one repair kit, nitro, armor, double damage, and a mine) the equivalent play cost is 25 cents USD (of course if someone buys a supplies kit the overall cost drops to about 8 cents to capture that flag).

 

25 cents versus $700. That's 1/2800 the cost of that same tank above (or 1/8400 based on a kit).

 

Because of the massive expense to actually buy a turret or hull of course it is easier to get someone to pull out the credit card to drug than get out the card to spend $700 on a tank (this obviously makes Tanki the most expensive game I have ever played in my life).

 

In most cases if a drugger drugs on most of the maps I have seen it is actually a losing proposition - the share of the battle fund seems to be less than the amount spent on drugging. But since it is a tiny amount spent/earned in each round people don't seem to think about the economic logic as to whether they should do it or not. They simply do it because they feel some need to win whatever the cost. As they do this it brings out lots of unsportsmanlike conduct which makes playing the game much less enjoyable. As I pointed out spawn campers are bad enough -  but when a team is leading 10-1 and still drugging it defies imagination. Win at all costs.

 

I think the Pro Pass logic is backwards. I think you guys would sell more of them if you made them mandatory to drug. As it is the only way to have drug free battles is to buy the Pro Pass. I think you sell fewer of them this way.

 

Of course I have no idea what numbers you guys run and I doubt you know that either.

 

But in reality one has to pay for the privilege to drug because the daily supplies won't last long. They might last one or two round of drugging before they are exhausted.

 

My solution to end all the bickering seems simple: just make one server drug free - then the rest can have drugs the way they work now. Nothing really needs to be changed.

 

Or make the Pro Pass work so that by buying one it gives the player the ability to join the drug fests if they desire. I think you'd sell more this way (which means money money for Tanki).

[Brubook 1,161]

The pace of PRO battles is a lot slower indeed

 

Hehe I like that :lol: i guess you're right, if you play a lot daily bonus drugs aren't enough, and you need drugs to survive. Opened my perspective, thanks :)

I am happy to open your perspective ... but ....

 

The only battles I played for that long were pro (drug free pro) and I actually did it by mistake, involved by friends :) (I hate no time limit).

And as I told you before, I have 2k to 3k drugs per type, so I don't care about daily bonus (I would prefer crystals, that I receive maybe once a month). I usually play less than 1 hour a day (with those exceptions).

 

Anyway I calculated from observation that a drugger burn out the daily bonus in maybe 30 minutes. Considering that that kind of player probably plays at least 3 hours a day ... buying supplies becomes a must. Hence many times the difference is MONEY (dollars, eur, dinar, yen, not crystal, just to point it out). And we are back to the pay-to-play vs free-to-loose type of game!!!

[Brubook 1,161]

LOL that was me.. :)

Salt and pepper are meant to be used in small doses... in overdose they are bad for health... power ons are meant to be en extra that temporarily unbalances the battle, (the expression is "shake the battle a little") making it less boring and flat. But if they are used constantly, then where's the temporary character? Gone.  Thus, a new flat line is produced, in favour of the ones always on power ups.

Good for Tanki wallet, bad for many players.

Yes, you! I like your creative language and your clear way to explain things ... well actually I hate my poor and rusty (not u) english!!! If you candidate for a role or a communicating position, I will vote for you!!! ;)

 

And just to recall earlier posts, I doubt about the "good for Tanki wallet" part! (with reference to satisfaction, critical mass and so on)

[Pathfinder 1,690]

You didn't answered my question... don't they give you something for being a staff member?

 

And the important point in what you said is "how big should be the advantage a top buyer can have?" I admitt it it's only fair for buyers to have an advantage.... but not up to the point that nobody else can face them.... not to the point that whole battles are ruined just because of a paying bully that uses top gear + constant drugging...

There should be "full drugging" battles in Pro setting, where top buyers can face each other... Isn't this a good solution?

They do, but that's not a concern. My point was that it wasn't a necessity to pull out the cash in order to drug. I don't get paid in drugs. But yes, considering I don't play much I can see why it may be a necessity for some.

 

Buyers do have a ridiculous advantage thinking about it.

[Pathfinder 1,690]

I am happy to open your perspective ... but ....

 

The only battles I played for that long were pro (drug free pro) and I actually did it by mistake, involved by friends :) (I hate no time limit).

And as I told you before, I have 2k to 3k drugs per type, so I don't care about daily bonus (I would prefer crystals, that I receive maybe once a month). I usually play less than 1 hour a day (with those exceptions).

 

Anyway I calculated from observation that a drugger burn out the daily bonus in maybe 30 minutes. Considering that that kind of player probably plays at least 3 hours a day ... buying supplies becomes a must. Hence many times the difference is MONEY (dollars, eur, dinar, yen, not crystal, just to point it out). And we are back to the pay-to-play vs free-to-loose type of game!!!

Fair enough :p I play about a couple hours a week so I have had no problem relying on the daily

[Pathfinder 1,690]

As a business owner I fully understand the need to make money.

 

As I pointed out it takes about $700 USD to "purchase" a fully upgraded M3+ turret/hull combination. I have the money to do this if I chose, but, it makes no logical sense to spend this on a game.

 

Drugs give even the lowest level combos a similar amount of power for a brief time.

 

In my experience it takes about 45 seconds to travel from one flag base to the other (assuming one starts off with nitro first).

 

If one fully drugs for 45 seconds (including one repair kit, nitro, armor, double damage, and a mine) the equivalent play cost is 25 cents USD (of course if someone buys a supplies kit the overall cost drops to about 8 cents to capture that flag).

 

25 cents versus $700. That's 1/2800 the cost of that same tank above (or 1/8400 based on a kit).

 

Because of the massive expense to actually buy a turret or hull of course it is easier to get someone to pull out the credit card to drug than get out the card to spend $700 on a tank (this obviously makes Tanki the most expensive game I have ever played in my life).

 

In most cases if a drugger drugs on most of the maps I have seen it is actually a losing proposition - the share of the battle fund seems to be less than the amount spent on drugging. But since it is a tiny amount spent/earned in each round people don't seem to think about the economic logic as to whether they should do it or not. They simply do it because they feel some need to win whatever the cost. As they do this it brings out lots of unsportsmanlike conduct which makes playing the game much less enjoyable. As I pointed out spawn campers are bad enough -  but when a team is leading 10-1 and still drugging it defies imagination. Win at all costs.

 

I think the Pro Pass logic is backwards. I think you guys would sell more of them if you made them mandatory to drug. As it is the only way to have drug free battles is to buy the Pro Pass. I think you sell fewer of them this way.

 

Of course I have no idea what numbers you guys run and I doubt you know that either.

 

But in reality one has to pay for the privilege to drug because the daily supplies won't last long. They might last one or two round of drugging before they are exhausted.

 

My solution to end all the bickering seems simple: just make one server drug free - then the rest can have drugs the way they work now. Nothing really needs to be changed.

 

Or make the Pro Pass work so that by buying one it gives the player the ability to join the drug fests if they desire. I think you'd sell more this way (which means money money for Tanki).

Eh for some it might be worth it :) when buying crystals you're paying in money, when earning you're paying in time.

 

Making it mandatory to drug... Wouldn't that just make the complaints go up and the problems worse?

 

Yep, I literally have no clue.

 

I'd support those suggestions.

[Brubook 1,161]

Fair enough :P I play about a couple hours a week so I have had no problem relying on the daily

Wow ... a couple of hrs a week?? I am whatever marshal after more than 1 year, playing probably an average of 30-60 minutes a day .... how many years did u take to get to gismo??