Reduce power of garage supplies

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Something that they should consider: when I get my daily bonus it is worth 2550 crystals. Yet, when the daily bonus is a Pro Pass it is good for only a day.

 

Instead, the Pro Pass daily bonus should be worth the number of days represented by (rank bonus/5000)*30 - in other words, the Pro Pass daily bonus should be worth more days as your rank increases. This way it has the same value as your daily bonus, and, thus gives you more opportunity to use it.

 

As it is now one day of Pro Pass is fairly useless. I think I've only been able to use it a single time because of the lack of players starting battles.

[deadmanrising 715]

How many pro battles are there that aren't generalissimo and aren't XP/BP!? When they made pro battle passes 500 crystals i could find so much pro battles that suited me at any rank, so just make pro battles cheaper! Show your customers your willing to meet their demands!

 

 

Nope sorry, tanki will not do that, they only care about a specific market of players and would prefer to sell power to players *as they claim* 

 

 

Gosh why were supplies even implemented into the game in the first place? It just adds unnecessary monetary value to the game and corrupts the system, world of tanks never implemented tank enhancers and that is why their game is more balanced than ours, the only thing that stands out are premium tanks there and at least that value has a limit to how much money a player can spend and gameplay is not oppressive.

 

Guys, this game is not right, you've got druggers everywhere, once they come in gameplay is ruined, marshals are the worst druggers. Gameplay is never fair, you constantly have teams rage quitting, gameplay is too competitive, and as a result of this gameplay is at times oppressive. There is a limit to how much competition you can encourage in a game, and tanki does not get it.

 

Rank limits are a big problem. In fact ever since this change the way new players view the game is very limited, you cant really experiment with the game like you used to in the past and that's a real shame. Certain maps in the game have gone in decline at certain ranks, this is not good, it makes the game one dimensional, and i blame rank limits for this, the same update you did 3 consecutive times!

 

When i was a lower rank back in 2012, there was silence, there were lots of other maps, i could picture a dynamic in the game, do you really think a new player joining now will see it this way? Hell no!

 

The game is not what it used to be, i wish i could say it was but its not, there is a lot that needs to be retracted, if you wish to keep your paying customers, some businesses think because they have paying customers and they are doing good they will continue to grow, you could lose majority of buying players just like that, without even realizing it...

[RustyNail 1,538]

That guy with Smoky-Titan was in another screen in POTD, just can't remember where....

Specific player is of no importance. It's the massive character of the phenomenon the issue here... they, where just examples. It's easy to find examples, there are so many....

 

I don't intent to create hostility against those druggers (or any other drugger I encounter). I just want to show that this kind of overuse of supplies is just wrong. :)

[RustyNail 1,538]

How many pro battles are there that aren't generalissimo and aren't XP/BP!? When they made pro battle passes 500 crystals i could find so much pro battles that suited me at any rank, so just make pro battles cheaper! Show your customers your willing to meet their demands!

 

 

Nope sorry, tanki will not do that, they only care about a specific market of players and would prefer to sell power to players *as they claim* 

 

 

Gosh why were supplies even implemented into the game in the first place? It just adds unnecessary monetary value to the game and corrupts the system, world of tanks never implemented tank enhancers and that is why their game is more balanced than ours, the only thing that stands out are premium tanks there and at least that value has a limit to how much money a player can spend and gameplay is not oppressive.

 

Guys, this game is not right, you've got druggers everywhere, once they come in gameplay is ruined, marshals are the worst druggers. Gameplay is never fair, you constantly have teams rage quitting, gameplay is too competitive, and as a result of this gameplay is at times oppressive. There is a limit to how much competition you can encourage in a game, and tanki does not get it.

 

Rank limits are a big problem. In fact ever since this change the way new players view the game is very limited, you cant really experiment with the game like you used to in the past and that's a real shame. Certain maps in the game have gone in decline at certain ranks, this is not good, it makes the game one dimensional, and i blame rank limits for this, the same update you did 3 consecutive times!

 

When i was a lower rank back in 2012, there was silence, there were lots of other maps, i could picture a dynamic in the game, do you really think a new player joining now will see it this way? Hell no!

 

The game is not what it used to be, i wish i could say it was but its not, there is a lot that needs to be retracted, if you wish to keep your paying customers, some businesses think because they have paying customers and they are doing good they will continue to grow, you could lose majority of buying players just like that, without even realizing it...

Making clear that I don't object to the existense of supplies, just to the constant use of them, I will add that all the rest you say are right, especially

 

"gameplay is too competitive, and as a result of this gameplay is at times oppressive. There is a limit to how much competition you can encourage in a game, and tanki does not get it'

 

Great line :)

[Opex-Rah 5,376]

This is why I want to propose a suggestion for developers: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra (as it is for speed), rather than double those features...

Being a guy who actually calculate stuff before doing I wonder did you ever concider to calculate how much shots will it take to kill a hull with your suggested changes... I belive you didn't because I did and I couldn't see why even bother to use DD with most of the weapons anyway.

 

And then they wonder why their suggestions rarely taken seriously.

[Baby_Sam 614]

Being a guy who actually calculate stuff before doing I wonder did you ever concider to calculate how much shots will it take to kill a hull with your suggested changes... I belive you didn't because I did and I couldn't see why even bother to use DD with most of the weapons anyway.

 

And then they wonder why their suggestions rarely taken seriously.

Semyon, that is as much as an extra M class. Why don't you wonder why anyone would upgrade from M1 to M2 and so on?

[MrAwesome750 17]

Being a guy who actually calculate stuff before doing I wonder did you ever concider to calculate how much shots will it take to kill a hull with your suggested changes... I belive you didn't because I did and I couldn't see why even bother to use DD with most of the weapons anyway.

 

And then they wonder why their suggestions rarely taken seriously.

touché, hazel-rah, touché

[HaloScorpionV2 438]

m0 noobs drug, and we all know the right m0 with drugs beats certain m2 without them :angry: drugs > modification #stopdrugs

[FogOfWar_XXX 793]

Being a guy who actually calculate stuff before doing I wonder did you ever concider to calculate how much shots will it take to kill a hull with your suggested changes... I belive you didn't because I did and I couldn't see why even bother to use DD with most of the weapons anyway.

 

And then they wonder why their suggestions rarely taken seriously.

 

So the end effect of your arguement is that DD SHOULD in fact destroy very often in a single shot?  I only ask because there sems to be an arguement of numbers here that I don't understand?  Is it not Brubook's contention that he propses to REDUCE the power of the power ups?  Or are you saying that difference is still NOT enough to reduce the effects and ultimately you would still get same results in terms of destroying your enemy when powered up?

[Brubook 1,161]

Being a guy who actually calculate stuff before doing I wonder did you ever concider to calculate how much shots will it take to kill a hull with your suggested changes... I belive you didn't because I did and I couldn't see why even bother to use DD with most of the weapons anyway.

 

And then they wonder why their suggestions rarely taken seriously.

Dear Hazel-Rah

 

DD or DP should be the "salt&pepper" of the game, not a devastating temporary typhoon!

DD for example shouldn't necessarily make many weapons like "destroy in 1 shot" weapons! (expecially the ones that are not designed for that ... all but shaft!).

Drugs shouldn't make necessary the drugging back as the ONLY solution to stay alive and face drugged enemy.

Drugs should be the little help to a players skills and efforts in doing someting, not complete substitutes of them!

 

Just for example a mammouth M3 with DP has some 800 protection (if not mued) ... that with button 1 become abt 1.500 ... how can any non drugged destroy 1.500 protection?

Same calcs for a viking: from abt. 270 to 540, to abt. 1.000. Isn't that excessive?

 

So why don't you increase drug cost and make DD 10 times the normal power? Following your logic, players would bother much more to use them! In 1 shot they could destroy all tanks at once, and maybe even the map walls ... why don't build a button like "WIN" (number 6) ... make it cost 2.000 crystals and when you press it you win straight away!

 

Obviously I am stretching the matter to the limit, but you see what I mean!

[Brubook 1,161]

touché, hazel-rah, touché

Are you bent on your knees already?

[Pathfinder 1,690]

^ brutal, dangggg

[Legolover3 91]

That's a major burn there...but seriously, supplies are far too overpowered. Also, as creeperskelly pointed out, the daily bonus for supplies gets bigger and bigger with higher rank, but PRO pass? Nope, one day all the way. Also, it's useless when PRO battles are so inaccessible for the majority of tankers lower than, say, brigadier.

[Brubook 1,161]

^ brutal, dangggg

uhm, yes a bit (but just figurative)  :)

[Brubook 1,161]

That's a major burn there...but seriously, supplies are far too overpowered. Also, as creeperskelly pointed out, the daily bonus for supplies gets bigger and bigger with higher rank, but PRO pass? Nope, one day all the way. Also, it's useless when PRO battles are so inaccessible for the majority of tankers lower than, say, brigadier.

and also, as creeperskelly pointed out, the value of the "PRO gift" is not only fixed (one day pro pass), but not even adequate to daily gift values. The daily pro pass used to cost 500 crystals (just to compare), which is quite less the daily bonus of most ranks!

Creeperskelly made the right calc, proportioning it with actual pro pass and daily gift, giving the right days it should be!

[beaku 2,656]

After reading a lot here, I accept the fact the too many players drug mindlessly and unbalance the game. My question is: WILL decreasing the power of drugs stop these mindless druggers from drugging?

IMO, it might become more difficult for non drugging team to resist the mindless drugging since they won't be able to use drugs as frequently as mindless druggers.

So, decreasing their power might not be the ultimate solution.

In fact, any nerf to drug will affect both heavy druggers and non druggers. So, in the end, the effect will cancel out and we will be back where we started.

We need a better solution.

 

 

A theoretical solution will be to remove drugs altogether and add premium accounts as I said in some other topic. But even if devs do decide something on those lines, we can't expect any implementation for at least a year or more.

 

 

[deadtoyou 2,502]

I tried, as a short experiment, to play a battle totally without supplies. While the gameplay was balanced, (kind of), the round itself was boring, and slower-paced. When you have 2 equally good teams with good equipment, what will offset the balance and make it more interesting? Supplies.

[beaku 2,656]

I tried, as a short experiment, to play a battle totally without supplies. While the gameplay was balanced, (kind of), the round itself was boring, and slower-paced. When you have 2 equally good teams with good equipment, what will offset the balance and make it more interesting? Supplies.

Interestingly, that was the argument which I gave earlier (which was heavily down voted -_-). Even I thought that supplies make an otherwise boring game interesting and few of my 'experiments' proved it too. In early stages of my experiment, I concluded that supplies perfectly fit into gameplay. Then I took my experiments to normal battles and told my friends (who are helping me with these experiments) to make alts and analyse situations in normal battles. Turns out that it is much more difficult to keep pace with druggers. Smart Cool Downs should theoretically have kept druggers in 'chains' but the players who drug mindlessly usually keep control over drop zones and hence, are almost always seen with '2-3-4' activated.

This causes a huge imbalance which instead of making gameplay more interesting, causes rage quit.

Drugs would have been more fitting with current gameplay if everyone could use them at nearly same frequency.

On thinking, I concluded that drugs were always meant to be tank enhancers which would turn a near loss into a win at critical moments. Drugs have instead become total game changers. One can now stay in a battle for 5 minutes and realise whether it is futile to remain in battle any longer. In the end, it adversely affect the drugging party too since it was an easy win and they didn't gain any skills from it.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I tried, as a short experiment, to play a battle totally without supplies. While the gameplay was balanced, (kind of), the round itself was boring, and slower-paced. When you have 2 equally good teams with good equipment, what will offset the balance and make it more interesting? Supplies.

But if everyone is using their supplies than what is the difference without? If both teams have the same advantage then by default it really isn't an advantage any longer. The only thing that changes is more kills during the same time period. However, blowing up all the time doesn't make it more interesting.

 

I just played a few rounds of Serpukhov again and both teams were more or less just using drops. The scores at the end were closer (5-3). By not drugging people had to use strategy and it made it more interesting.

 

After the conclusion some of the other team dropped off and a pack of 5 druggers showed up. Then it got boring really quickly as a Mammoth M3 with Thunder M3 just parked itself in blue base and tore the blue team to pieces. That's not fun. That's boring. Fairly quickly most of blue team quit - which means the battle fund and scores dropped for red team. Their short sightedness drove us off which means overall they get lower scores (40 per capture versus 100) and with fewer opponents it means a smaller battle fund.

 

Just going BOOM BOOM BOOM all the time

[Opex-Rah 5,376]

So why don't you increase drug cost and make DD 10 times the normal power? Following your logic...

Following my logic? Like that? http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=218280&page=3&do=findComment&comment=3867029

[viduranga-x 305]

worst packages ever made : supply kits

[MrsTankBuster2 141]

Whether one is for or against the constant use of over-powered supplies, everyone's comments (particularly Hazel Rah's) just go to reaffirm to me that, in the end, Brubook's thread tiltle is spot-on.

 

Perhaps this game should be called 'Druggi' instead - a game where, if you use enough drugs, you can buy a tank - but expect to one-shotted as soon as you try to use it... :P  I bet Tanki rues the day it used a syringe for an icon!

 

I would just like to add though that although I rarely activate my own supplies, I will pick up drop boxes if I can. I think drop boxes are great as they give everyone an equal chance of a temporary boost, but not all at the same time or continously - this definitely adds variety and fun to the gameplay and it's a more balanced and fairer experience IMO.

[genak138 950]

Ok, here's something I don't understand:

Here, people are complaining about drugs being over-used, pointless, and requiring no skill. Yet there was an update a few months ago which ultimately nerfed supplies hugely. This is of course the Smart Cooldowns. That update got over 200 downvotes!!! And that doesn't even count the ones that canceled out the upvotes. 

Obviously, no matter what happens in the future to the use of supplies, there will be a huge number of people that don't like, do like, hate, or love the update. So please keep this is mind. Not everybody can be pleased at once. If you think that you're just not being listened to, think again, because there are a huge amount of people that don't believe that supplies need a nerf, which can be visible from the reputation on the Smart Cooldowns topic.

 

I hope some of you think this through ;)

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I think there was less of an impact of drugging when drops were random:

 

 

Predictable drops just make it easier for the druggers to plan ahead and sweep up what they need and then press the remaining key to begin the slaughter. When drops were random it made it harder for someone to plan out or know ahead of time where certain supplies would land.

[Papaya14 481]

Following my logic? Like that? http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=218280&page=3&do=findComment&comment=3867029

I watched the video on the thread you provided, I have to say it was very interesting. It taught me something new about MMOs, even though it was obvious in hindsight. And I can definitely see how that situation would be applied to Tanki, in the case of drugs. The game has given too much power in the hands of people who use drugs, and not considering how it affects players who are drugged against (this and other similar threads should tell you how it affects them!). So it's obvious the wrong choice would be to make supplies stronger in any way, but on the other extreme, removing them or weakening them too much would be dangerous. But I'm just stating the obvious here, when 45 pages of discussion before have said it 1000x better than I could even comprehend.

 

So my hope is that you and dev team can come up with a smart counter-play in the case of drugging, that will bring back player interest, to get this game back to the fun and excitement and balance it once was. And I sincerely hope you take player response from the past 45 pages of this thread into suggestion, there were plenty of neat and thoughtful ideas I saw that would definitely benefit the game, such as surrender option, or increased PRO battle pass length in daily bonus, or just buffing the PRO pass in general. Mostly I saw you were more focused on critiquing the dumber ideas, like decreasing drug strength, and that made me sad. For myself and for the players who face the struggle of imbalanced battles every day.