Reduce power of garage supplies

beaku · June 8, 2015

Please guys, while quoting a text wall, try to remove the pictures at least. We don't need to look at them more than once.

kayitsiz · June 8, 2015

I swear every marshal game i have joined yesterday had hardcore druggers in it, and it got so boring i decided to do it myself just to save the team from being completely obliterated, game is getting very unbalanced if not unbalanced already, in terms of map popularity, map variation and weapon advantage, take all into consideration and i'd be right :D

Promoting drug kits, and increasing the power rather than effectiveness of the supplies has now ruined the game for supply matches almost indefinitely, and its quite sad to see

I am marshall, at least half of the games are not totaly dominated by druggers.

I play mostly DM, then CP.

ThouShallNot · June 8, 2015

Even if you join pro battles, they are only available in these maps: polygon, sandbox. you get bored of the same maps.

RustyNail · June 8, 2015

I am marshall, at least half of the games are not totaly dominated by druggers.

I play mostly DM, then CP.

I did have thoughts about it a few days ago, that is, I wondered if drugging issue is present and severe in all battle formats in Tanki. So, I played some CP battles and I realised that it was not so intense (the issue).

The causes are not really hard to find, CP has lot of short distance fight, very quick death ratio and thus drugging is not that effective as in CTF. In DM this is even more effective, since when each is on their own death is really a matter of secs, whether one drugs or not.

That's why most of the time complains regarding drugging come from CTF battles. CTF in medium to large maps are ideal for druggers, since they have plenty of room to use and the capture is a major score generator.

At least, that's what I thought and I think it's more or less right.

HellfireCommando · June 9, 2015

I've played a lot, and at this rank, it seems that equipment and the way you play is more of a problem. A drugger coming in alone in a match doesn't last very long in maps such as noise. But when only one person is defending, druggers can press 1 and watch their problems fade away (Which seems odd, because you should be trying to get the flag, not just driving away slowly, or quickly). But a lot of matches have something like 20-0, because one team has good equipment for that map, and a playstyle that suits it and their team. Although, not much can be done about that.

Anyways, @RustyNail, I'm quite excited to see this document. This topic has so many ideas, it's as though you could miss half and still get banned for flood :P, although, since it took so long, it sort of emphasises how much work you went through to get most of the ideas.

Baby_Sam · June 9, 2015

^ Nobody cares about a single drugger. I do not know where you go the idea that this thread is talking about that.

RustyNail · June 9, 2015

^ Nobody cares about a single drugger. I do not know where you go the idea that this thread is talking about that.

There are two kinds (?) of drugging situations. One is when a single drugger causes the problems (usually a hammerking followed by a healing isida), the second is a raiding party is on.

In the first occasion the one hammerking (these days, although it could be a thunderking as well) is definitely a M4 combo wearing an expensive paint (tiger is common due to kit sales) and constantly drugging with all three supplies (plus a repair ready). That hammerking can do a lot of damage since in most cases it oneshots its enemies away, while going for the flag.

In the second case, there is a group (three or more) consisting of friends*, that uses constantly two power ups (perhaps one of them is a three drugs person - hurray!) and is moving in coordination towards the flag. In these cases there are often two isidas that work together and a variety of turrets / paints, giving away the existence of a method (variety of turrets / paints minimizes the collective threat from any single opponent turret). These cases fall under two issue categories, drugging and raiding. They have become quite often in CTF in top ranks.

*friendship is not always the case in top ranks. Due to increased experience (in comparison to lower ranks) even one or two non friends / familiar can join the group and be able to co ordinate with the others that are friends. Or then again, when spawn slaughter begins, it doesn't really matter whether any single participant is member of a gang or solo... :huh:

EDIT: There is plenty of footage regarding both occasions, in the pics I have provited recently.

Baby_Sam · June 9, 2015

^ If a single drugger can do much damage, it has to be that the two teams are about equal. You can't really complain, because if your team drugged occasionally they should compensate for that. I have never been at a battle where a single drugger caused a big problem.

kayitsiz · June 9, 2015

^ If a single drugger can do much damage, it has to be that the two teams are about equal. You can't really complain, because if your team drugged occasionally they should compensate for that. I have never been at a battle where a single drugger caused a big problem.

For example there is a battle 4vs4.

If you enter one side as non-drugger, other 3 players may be druggers.

However, opponent team may have 4 drugger.

If there is a drug-war, non-druggers lose their effect and harm their teams.

So, if you are a non-drugger, your team will more likely lose.

I would maybe prove this with math, but sorry, this calculate is too hard for me.

kayitsiz · June 9, 2015

^ If a single drugger can do much damage, it has to be that the two teams are about equal. You can't really complain, because if your team drugged occasionally they should compensate for that. I have never been at a battle where a single drugger caused a big problem.

Also(sorry to double post, this is hard to fix comments on phone) who said "one drugger has low power?

One drugger can definetely spoil the game if there isn't enough balance.

deadmanrising · June 9, 2015

I am marshall, at least half of the games are not totaly dominated by druggers.

I play mostly DM, then CP.

Dm rarely has druggers, as for CP is 50/50 :huh:

RustyNail · June 9, 2015

^ If a single drugger can do much damage, it has to be that the two teams are about equal. You can't really complain, because if your team drugged occasionally they should compensate for that. I have never been at a battle where a single drugger caused a big problem.

Based on your experience so far you may say what you say. I can't argue with that. As you can't argue with me when I call upon experience that a single drugger (90% or higher a viking with hammer or thunder) can create great unbalance in battle.

One matter that never has been discussed (in my knowledge) is that of the actual cost (in crystals and if not adequate, in real money) of occasional drugging (although it is contradiction in terms, to say occasional drugging since drugging means constant use of supplies) and in regard to average playing time per day.

That is, can the average player (skill, mentality) cover the need in supplies by daily bonus when plays average time per day?

This is an equation that needs the values of average performance and average playing-time, so that a comparison is made with the average daily bonus in supplies.

It is a belief I have, based on my experience with CTF battles, that daily bonus is certainly not enough for the average player. It can be enough though, if player plays at least 30% (up to 60%) of everyday battles Pro battles with no garage supplies usage.

HellfireCommando · June 9, 2015

^ If a single drugger can do much damage, it has to be that the two teams are about equal. You can't really complain, because if your team drugged occasionally they should compensate for that. I have never been at a battle where a single drugger caused a big problem.

My team may not have been super coordinated in defense. A lot of the time I was the only defender. But firebird can easily do enough damage to take him out. My point was how the health packs are too OP. If he came in alone with a mid-range weapon, and I have a high damage short range weapon, shouldn't I be able to win without have to drug? He should also be coordinating. It would've been a simple matter to take me out (with some helpers) then take the flag, and run while the rest of my team hadn't noticed that. With the full bar, if it went for 7 seconds (using firebird m2), it would do 184 pts of damage, if he had double armor, and with no burn. Well, his m1 viking is dead, right? Well, he's pressed 1, I'm dead because he used double power, and my team isn't using the right weapons, and will now be hard pressed to do about 340 points of damage (viking m1 with double armor). He could really just do this, wait to it to recharge his drugs, rinse and repeat. Despite the fact, he should be dead with damage over his hp level being inflicted, without even a burn being calculated

I don't know how long firebird burns, so this wasn't really intended to be really accurate

Baby_Sam · June 9, 2015

This is a random Rio CTF I have just joined. It shows that rarely there is one tank that is drugging on one side. I usually don't join these silly battles. I did that as part of my research for reward distribution in different modes and scenarios. It's obviously stupid to join a 30-minute battle on the losing team when it has zero flag captures and is behind by 40 or whatever flags. You need 8 flag captures per minute to break even.

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RustyNail · June 9, 2015

Today I played only two battles of 15 minutes and no more. Supplies are overpowered, even one (out of 5 or 6 players) tankman drugging means unbalance and soon half the losing team evaporates.

Boring, no-fun battles.

(I don't bring pics, as I said that there will be no more footage, besides it's always the same, only players' names change)

This game is rapidly loosing its interest, it was prominent from the b-day week.

A pity.

A change in Pro pass cost is more than needed, so that more people can play no-garage supplies battles.

Bydo · June 9, 2015

ok guys im finding so many complaints on drugging but really there is no need for drugs to be used in any battles even to make your tanki look stronger or to get more kills i find the more you use drugs the weaker the xp is on your tanks and it dos nothing in the long run to improve them..for drugs in battles in general why use them i found there are battles in the russian servers who don`t use them and i enjoy those battles more then the english battles where they use them all the time ...in the long run it cost money to have them and if you want to rank you can with out useing them i did it in three months and i only used drops and some of my dailys from tanki gifts i never bought....and if and when i did use it was more shields and double power only

even in pro battles you can drug i have seen them and i would like tanki to remove those options so that we can have one area in tanki to get away from druggers if we choose to

Brubook · June 9, 2015

Dear players

For fufususumumu1 and beaku that recently asked and make us notice it, but for everyone: we made a sum-up of the whole post with feelings, thoughts, ideas and suggestions and we will post it probably tomorrow.

This delay is my fault, due to my dramatic lack of time in the last days. You will see it posted very shortly. Thank you all for your patience

B.

DestroyerZ10 · June 10, 2015

Drugs, what could have seemed like a great Idea could be tanki's downfall.As we have acknowledged, People no longer skills to defeat enemies in tanki as long as then have 1,2,3,4 buttons then they can do as they please winning any match. And the only way to stop this is to pay 5k crystals for a pro pass and turn off bonus boxes, smart cooldowns, and all supplies(period). often when I call someone a noob for drugging then say " Well ya know if you dont like it play in Pro battle" And what I say to that is... "Make Me". Mines are about the only non- nooby/ or least nooby drug/ power-up. What is also sad if that waht is true for most tankers is, we all have drugged one time or another, reason: it makes us feel stronger, better about our tank rank and everything. We call others noobs for drugging although it is only because we cant drug too a simple soloution is that each tank receives same amount of supplies per day. But that leads me into my talk about how kits turn people into noobs. Kits, letting a low ranked tank get equipment he has yet to unlock for several ranks. Just today I say 3 luietenant colonels with prodigi, a paint that gives 40% vs railgun which is one of the most popular turrets in the TO universe and several other low ranked players with emerald a paint with 42% thunder and 26% twins. I will end my long arguement here with a closing statement of,... Drugs/ supplies/pick-ups might have to be removed for tankers to be happy in all games not just pro battle or maybe pro pass effects should be switched. Instead of using a pro pass to take a way drugs m=normal battle should be drugless and propass used to put drug back in the game, this would make druggers buy pro passes to drug or they cant drug at all.

~~DestroyerZ10

Baby_Sam · June 10, 2015

Thanks, @Brubook.

RustyNail · June 10, 2015

Drugs, what could have seemed like a great Idea could be tanki's downfall.As we have acknowledged, People no longer skills to defeat enemies in tanki as long as then have 1,2,3,4 buttons then they can do as they please winning any match. And the only way to stop this is to pay 5k crystals for a pro pass and turn off bonus boxes, smart cooldowns, and all supplies(period). often when I call someone a noob for drugging then say " Well ya know if you dont like it play in Pro battle" And what I say to that is... "Make Me". Mines are about the only non- nooby/ or least nooby drug/ power-up. What is also sad if that waht is true for most tankers is, we all have drugged one time or another, reason: it makes us feel stronger, better about our tank rank and everything. We call others noobs for drugging although it is only because we cant drug too a simple soloution is that each tank receives same amount of supplies per day. But that leads me into my talk about how kits turn people into noobs. Kits, letting a low ranked tank get equipment he has yet to unlock for several ranks. Just today I say 3 luietenant colonels with prodigi, a paint that gives 40% vs railgun which is one of the most popular turrets in the TO universe and several other low ranked players with emerald a paint with 42% thunder and 26% twins. I will end my long arguement here with a closing statement of,... Drugs/ supplies/pick-ups might have to be removed for tankers to be happy in all games not just pro battle or maybe pro pass effects should be switched. Instead of using a pro pass to take a way drugs m=normal battle should be drugless and propass used to put drug back in the game, this would make druggers buy pro passes to drug or they cant drug at all.

~~DestroyerZ10

What you say about drugging is right, but supplies used rarely are actually one of the most smart parameters Tanki has invented.

But, as I said, they are to be used rarely.

How can this be?

A simple and easy way is there are no garage supplies. Only drops, that are equally available to both teams.

But here comes another aspect of supplies. Supplies are a major income source of Tanki.

It should have not been in the first place, but now it is. If Tanki lets go of supplies, then it has to replenish this lost income by another source.

What could it be?

There have been some ideas, in other topics mostly. But that takes time and most probably it can't be done in flash version.

So, untill this can be worked out, a little touch here and there in supplies mechanism is wanted and, INHO benevolent. Apart from what I said in another post, regardind interaction of supplies, a minor decrease in supplies effectiveness plus a small increase in supplies cooling period might soften the issue enough that no players abandon the game due to druggers.

At least, that's my proposal.

beaku · June 10, 2015

Play a PRO battle. No drugs allowed.

43 down votes :lol:

PrinceMalagant · June 10, 2015

'A simple and easy way is there are no garage supplies. Only drops, that are equally available to both teams.

It would be great ... and I believe it could be better not include supplies in daily gifts.

But here comes another aspect of supplies. Supplies are a major income source of Tanki.'

MUs too, I think. I never buy supplies.

r_Jadewarrior0 · June 10, 2015

I don't consider myself as a pro player but still normally I don't use drugs in battles. And needless to say that wining has become a nightmare to me among the druggeres. As how I see it, TO is becoming a game of Riches who are able to buy crys using real money and use those crys to buy supplies. How else can we understand the extreme use of supplies of some druggers. I have seen people, have gotten in to battles with them, we can't call them just "druggers", it'll be a insult for them since they are much more like ""Drug Lords"". Continuously using drugs all the time..

TO is chasing away the real talent and keeping the noob druggeres with them. Pro Battle Pass is a great Idea but buying a pass is a much scary idea. 5000 is too much for my pocket.

TO should introduce dedicated server just for Pro like battles where you won't get to use supplies at all or with limited number of supplies. I think limited number of supplies will be a great idea since choosing a right spot to place mines, use of double armour at the right time, etc will pump up over adrenaline for sure cause mare thought of it gives me a chilling feeling.

TO has to come up with something to promote "real talent" instead of drugging noobs, otherwise we will see the end of one great game in near future.

creeperskelly · June 10, 2015

I suggested a drug-free server with respect to your proposal. Supplies only. Solves all the problems.

Brubook · June 10, 2015

Drugs - The only today Tanki strategy to win a battle

THIS TOPIC, HAVING MORE THAN 1.400 COMMENTS AND 18.000 VIEWS IS ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING AND ACTIVE TOPICS THAT ENGLISH COMMUNITY / PLAYERS OF TANKI ONLINE HAVE CREATED, INDICATING THUS THAT THE USE OF SUPPLIES AS PERFORMED IS INDEED AN ISSUE TO BE FACED AND DEALT WITH.

The following is a “sum up” of all that's been said in the topic, in relation to supplies, the constant use of them that creates the term “drugger”, different issues and solutions, for a better game balance.

Players' quotes are gathered to support all basic elements of this topic. However, not ALL players' quotes are here (as they are too many), only sufficient to document the relative observation, thought or proposal.

The right way to read all this.

First, read the bold lines, text outside of spoilers. This is the “spine” of the anti-drugging arguments.

Then, you can find relative quotes that support the bold lines, in the spoilers. Deal with one spoiler at a time.

Finally, you can read again the bold lines. Now you know how strongly is each one of them supported by players and reason. You can draw your own conclusions.

Don't forget to upvote if you agree that something has to be done with drugs. Your voice is important so that a message is send to Tanki Administration.

PREFACE – THE MEANING OF DRUGS in contradiction to SUPPLIES

The word “drugs” is applied to the supplies that are used constantly, creating a playing condition similar to real drugs' addiction; a player cannot stand in battle unless they use one, two or all three supplies. In that concept, the title of this topic makes clear that supplies create problems only when used as “drugs”. Therefore, this topic IS NOT against the general existence and use of supplies, but only against their constant use in battle.

UNITY 1 – WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE CONNECTED WITH THE EXCESSIVE USE OF SUPPLIES

1.01 Drugging is practically enforced in standard battles. It tends from optional to become mandatory.

Brubook (#1) Anyone in the actual game is forced to drug if he wants to have a chance to win a battle, and a battle is definitely won by the more drugged team

FAMOUSWATERMELON (#125) But I totally agree. Drugs are the way to win, even at my level. I think that some limitation should be made on them, because they really do win games by themselves. Basically, the one with the most crystals wins. And that doesn't recompense the actual good players.

MrsTankBuster2 (#60) I recently had the opportunity to use the test server and be a 'Generalisimo' for the first time, with unlimited access to everything, including supplies - I hated it. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you have the top equipment and paints - you have to drug just to keep up because everyone else drugs non-stop. This is no fun at all and there is nothing stategic about it. ... When people are using Double Power all the time other people hardly get a chance to spawn, get their bearings and drive their pride and joy a couple of metres before they're dead - where's the fun in that? AbsoluteAlpha (#327) But.. you are right in my opnion drugs should be refunded and deleted from the game. Or pro battle pass should be cheaper. Because at the moment it is like: Free to play Pay to win

FogOfWar_XXX (#540) The idea of planning for power over an opponent that is not innate to your equipment makes the equipment itself almost not important, Rico or Smokey, they're DP'd and they hit and tada, 3 shots and you're dead in some cases, sometimes less. Thsi is it? I can't rely on the fact that I can see an enemy, gauge the hull and turret and decide that engaging will yield the results desired given the terrian and their ability to fight back? If a stupid Smokeyh and pop me in 3 shots from across the map with no criticals, there is a huge problem. Oh wait, I could just learn how to use drugs too and then I could go about apply said logic, but then, oh, I have to consume, pay to play. Regardless if I have the funds, the dynamic of using drugs makes everything unpredictable and worthless for the sake of stragegy and tactics, all I can do is play when my cool downs are not running, because now I'm a drugger and can only engage when I'm statted beyond my tanks normal specs.

1.02 Anyone that doesn't drug is – most of the time – feeling frustrated and unhappy. And driven away from battle (eventually away from game)

Brubook (#1) The point is allowing a non-payer or a low-payer to enjoy the game too.

Brubook (#2) ...the majority of players who don't shop or shop a little are always loosing games. This will soon end up with a final annoying feeling for the game and abandoning it by the greater part of players who are not constantly paying for drugs.

FogOfWar_XXX (#136) I can't agree more with this post. It's becoming almost untenable, the drugging lately. Was in a 60 minute Berlin last night and it got raided in the last 5 MINUTES and the drugging was constant, they won of course at the last moment, taking our 4 grand and change in crystals with them.

Brubook (#143) This is exactly one of the worst situation that drugging creates! It makes you feel useless in a battle where you gave all yourself to fight and win .... and after a long time of fighting, you see all burned off by players who (skilled or not) press buttons and get a overwhelming advantage on you and your team!

This has just one word .... SAD

Brubook (#148) Most of the time this game is quite sad now (due to these situations), and you often feel like a useless spectator in front of tanks with Christmas tree like decoration icons on top of them, that run all over the place, kill everyone and stand multiple fire!!

ArgentHellion (#201) When the enemy isn't drugged, the matches never get dull, because if you can't confront them directly, you can always develop a convenient strategy to flank them, and when that evantually fails, you develop another one. Flanking a drugged player DOESN'T work, because two-thirds down the Isida drain, he just pumps the repair and practically says "up yours with your skill, I've got your skill right here... boom... go play with the other freebie peasants." But probably the most annoying things are the drugged out sniper-a-thons, and that's definitely the thing that's killing this game the most. Boosted Shaft guarantees an instant kill on any hull, except if it's a drugged Mammoth maybe, so it's practically an InstaGib match replica from Unreal Tournament, with drugged players being the InstaGibbers, and everybody else just being cannon fodder...

Wildgooseman (#1192) The sad thing is my friends list is littered with people who no longer play Tanki because they were fed up with losing to the "who drugs most" team. Even more sad is the ammount of people I see in chat talking of giving the game up because of it.

1.03 Tanki has become too expensive for non buyers or even small buyers to be able to get upgrades in tanks / paints or Pro pass, AND supplies for frequent use.

Brubook (#9) Actually, as a non buyer, everything is hard to afford. But if I choose to save for hull turrets or paints, there is no more left for drugs or passes. If you add a minimum of MUs .... crystals are never enough if you don't buy!

DidYouKnowThat (#179) @Hazel-Rah:

" Non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart."

Uh, you can't really win if you play it smart when your enemy is drugging. The dude has double armor/power with a health pack. That health pack heal is too powerful. Unless when you say "play it smart," you mean just give up the battle, leave, and/or buy a PRO pass? Probably that. But still, drugs are so powerful. And even if you do save up and get the same equipment, they still squash you with supplies. Or if you buy drugs, then you'll probably never get better equipment. Not even counting MU's

AbsoluteAlpha (#327) But.. you are right in my opnion drugs should be refunded and deleted from the game. Or pro battle pass should be cheaper. Because at the moment it is like: Free to play Pay to win

ArgentHellion (#361) That is the main reason why the game is having such difficulties establishing a healthy community, because it relies on forcing you to pay your way through it in order to experience everything it has to offer. The further you reach into the game, the easier it becomes to experience it, so the most sencible way to achieve this is to advance as fast as possible, and for those of us unable to purchase Pro Passes and Xp boosters this feels more like a punishing chore than an actually enjoyable gameplay... The developers should really understand that many of their players come from 3rd world countries (and developing countries) and are therefore unable to pay for most things the devs consider "common", and at this current moment, the appeal to these players is on a barely tolerable level. Fair-play is something that should be available to everyone from the start, it isn't something you would have to pay for in order to get it temporarily. Like I said countless times, Pro Passes need to be removed, but maybe the better way would be if they were to be re-worked to function as extreme xp boosters, so purchasing them would provide you with extremely faster xp rate so you can catch up with the rest of the community easier. ... By the looks of things, I would say that Tanki Online is slowly becoming a freemium game, the type of multiplayer game where players who aren't willing or able to pay up front get downright crippled in comparisson to those that do, and it's really sad. Fortunately, it's not too late to come around and set the game on a proper path, the Unity transition is the perfect time for changes...

RustyNail (#380) I wanted to buy wasp M3, smoky M3, and a couple of paints, including prodigi. It's already an expensive sum and I could plan a gradual purchace (using a combination of earned funds and real money), but why should I do it, when a) even with these items I would need to buy supplies as well in order to meet players that drugg, and b ) how should I do it when Alternativa seems to turn its back to 50% sales?

See, what I say, it's not a game of buyers crashing non buyers but big time buyers crashing everybody else, including small time buyers. That, is the real meaning of unbalance.

creeperskelly (#830) Because of the massive expense to actually buy a turret or hull of course it is easier to get someone to pull out the credit card to drug than get out the card to spend $700 on a tank (this obviously makes Tanki the most expensive game I have ever played in my life).

1.04 All the more players that can't follow the increased financial demand to buy supplies as well as upgraded combos / paints are being driven into abandoning Tanki (even potential small or occasional buyers)

Brubook (#13) ...non druggers (and non buyers or little buyers) actually give Tanki the critical mass (the sufficient number of players) to make the game interesting for everyone. Then, a percentage of that mass will be more keen on buying, giving money to support Tanki.

Also, Tanki money can come from materials and MUs too. Overall you can spend millions of cry to have the tanks or turrets or paints you want.

Lets remember that without the critical mass, Tanki would not exist and be as it is!

FogOfWar_XXX (#136) If this is what awaits players as they move up the ranks, you can rest assured Tanki will not endure. I am a compulsive person maybe, and as such, I simply become angry and press on, insisting on trying to win, but I have heard many that have thrown up their hands, and rightfully so, it becomes a matter of time before people begin to all say the same thing, and then they will have a problem. EVEN BUYERS will tire of having to spend ALL the time just to be competitive. If buying the biggest and baddest equipment and having mad skills doesn't at least make you reasonably competitive, then there will be hell to pay soon as even them, the BUYERS begin to feel weary in the wallet and decide to move on to greener pastures.

Brubook (#165) Every druggers battle ends up after a while with the non drugger team EMPTY ... do DEVs realize why??? (it is a rhetorical question)

Actually players overall stats says that I am right. The game is loosing popularity and appeal, and this is obvious, for the reasons I explained many and many times!

Baby_Sam (#192) I realize that TO wants to sell drugs and PRO passes, but they do not have to be mean and miserable about it. There is no way everyone will be buying those, especially paying real money for it. They need to rebalance things to entice more people to buy and more people to play the game and like it, not ride the wave until there is no wave and there is no players to keep the game afloat.

ArgentHellion (#193) As a relative newcomer to Tanki Online, I have to agree with most of the posts regarding this topic, and yes I have actually taken the time to read most of them rather than just skipping to the end. Since I live in Bosnia and cannot afford money to spend online, because my full-time job barely covers my basic needs, I am a non-buyer player, and I can say that this game is brutally unbalanced when it comes to using power-ups, or drugging, as you call it.

At first the game seemed to be good, but at this current rank of mine, I'm hitting a difficulty spike, and not because I lack the skills but because I just don't have the stats. I'm constantly engaging opponents who are constantly drugged and there is nothing I can do about it, and my daily supplies aren't worth the payback so I barely use them. The only thing left for me to do is camp around the powerup spawns and rack up as much as I can before trying to engage the enemy. I don't know what the high-ranked games look like, but I honestly hope I will some day, in the meantime I can only hope that advanced game options exist that PREVENT the usage and spawning of powerups during the battle. If there isn't such an option, there clearly has to be, because battles should be won through skill and teamwork, not brute monetary force. I played quite a lot of online games, I'm over 25, but I have to admit that I have NEVER come across such overpowered Pay-To-Win content as Tanki Online offers. Something seriously needs to be done about it, otherwise the non-buyer players will leave the game out of frustration. I came here to play a game, find a team and have fun, not to be abused by somebody who has the money to buy an overpowered Shaft and one-shot me every time I try to leave my spawn.

Widow-Maker (#598) Another point I wanted to make. I, too, prefer not to use supplies nor do I put any money into the game. I used to, but my economy changed and so did my real life priorities. Buying crystals with real world money doesn't put food on the table, nor does it pay the bills. But I wonder how many players feel "forced" to put money into the game just to make it enjoyable. As I rank up, I don't enjoy using M1's when I should be using M2's, and when M3's become available to me, I'll probably still be using M1's and M2's (i got the M1's and M2's while I was still putting money into the game). Tanks and turrets are expensive and even with all the micro-upgrades, they are still expensive. A Generalissimo said, in lobby chat, that at the higher ranks, he felt "forced" to pay money into the game just so he could compete at that level. He didn't want to make up another account and start all over again.

Wildgooseman (#1192) The sad thing is my friends list is littered with people who no longer play Tanki because they were fed up with losing to the "who drugs most" team. Even more sad is the ammount of people I see in chat talking of giving the game up because of it.

1.05 Drugging reduces the total amount of crystals given to players (even druggers sometimes don't get enough). Thus, the only one that really wins is Tanki, but on a short term only.

mueretecabron (#127) Drugging back wastes drugs becuase buyers have like unlimited health packs...

prencess11 (#214) … the amount of crystals are not even worth drugging.

creeperskelly (#830) In most cases if a drugger drugs on most of the maps I have seen it is actually a losing proposition - the share of the battle fund seems to be less than the amount spent on drugging. But since it is a tiny amount spent/earned in each round people don't seem to think about the economic logic as to whether they should do it or not. They simply do it because they feel some need to win whatever the cost.

RustyNail As crystals are the one in-game currency and drugging (that is based on supplies kits) takes away the majority of funds created, one can say that a significant percentage of crystals simply recycles through drugging and never reaching non druggers, making upgrading of items for them more difficult. Furthermore, since the only bypassing in this road is purchasng crystals with real money, one can safely conclude that drugging makes Tanki more expensive in general.

1.06 Excessive use of drugs causes behaviour issues even among team-mates

ArgentHellion (#221) Also, when players are drugging, their ego gets bloated to such an extent it causes dire concequences not just for the enemies, but even for their teammates. I lost count how many times an obvious drugger decided to kill me using friendly fire, flip me over, or simply block me from delivering the flag because all they care about are their precious points. Sometimes I get a "friendly" warning saying "DROP FLAG", 3-4 seconds of room to think about it, and bam... I'm a goner...

1.07 Seems that increased (or massive) drugging is not enjoyable, if one can judge from “free supplies day” May the 9th

Legolover3 (#681) Ok, that pass is just annoying. Everyone is drugging; the strategy is when to hit which of the first five numbers. It has officially ruined the game for the next 24 hours.

MrsTankBuster2 (#685) Yep. Having played on test server with unlimited drugs in the past, I found the constant having to drug just to keep up with all the other druggers an awful style of gameplay - I certainly won't be playing today!

priyangshu (#691) This pass is just... ridiculous. I have been playing for the past 6 hours and not a single close battle, all are lopsided...

beaku (#700) Okay... Bought the pass, played for 5 hours... And I have no idea why devs have done it.
All I saw were skilled druggers and unskilled druggers getting addicted to drugging. Seriously, there is a difference between being skilled in using drugs and skills which are dependent on using drugs.
The first aid is probably more addicting than all the other drugs combined together. It actually destroys development of Tanker's skill.
I have been a drug user for long (Note that there is a difference between drug user and drugger) and I know how to wield their power. However, that does not render me useless without them. Many a times a saw people pressing 234, going on a mindless, killing spree for some 40 odd seconds and finding a place to hide until they can drug again. First aid severly affected many players' ability to keep their tank from damaging in the first place.
Unlimited drugs, though only for a day, IMO, will introduce many young, inexperience Tankers to drugging which will sabotage their future. They will WANT to drug more and more. They will spend crystals buying supplies kit.
I might be exaggerating but the point is, I really did not see even a single Advantage of this day. Maybe, it will gain Tanki potential buyers, but I don't think that such a slight increase was worth this day.

UNITY 2 – WHAT IS THE CAUSE THAT MAKES SUPPLIES RUIN BATTLE BALANCE

2.01. Supplies are very strong, compared with difference in Modification Levels (M0 to M3)

Brubook (#1) From one weapon or hull upgrade to another (M1 to M2 for example) the rise in characteristics is abt. 20-25%. Using a drug actually hypotetically rise you about 4-5 levels

Brubook (#2) You start at 1st rank Recruit with hunter and smoky

- You enter battles limited to the first 9 ranks up to Sergeant-Major usually. Why? To give opponents the same chances to win, and to have balanced games!

- Your smoky cause 18.0-22.0 of damage and your hunter resist 100 of damage

- If you drug you cause 36.0-44.0 of damage which is more than a SMOKY M3

- you can access a Smoky M3 at level Marshal .... 27 ranks higher than yours

sid262 (#52) i just hate the drugged railers and thunders............at my rank railers and thunderers are on drugs like always........killed in one shot........wth.....now one more wth weopon was introduced few days back............the hammer...........facing m3 hammer is very difficult................and when i see drugged hammer.........its like..........oh God wth........... just drugged hammer's two shots to kill my viki 3.5 ...........sorry not two shots even double powered 1.5 shots of hammer is enough to kill my viki 3.5.......wow....

2.02 Excessive use of supplies is silently promoted by Tanki Administration and has become a main income source for Tanki

priyangshu (#70) Now, in my experience, I find atleast one supply user with Health Kit every 2-3 battles. The normal ones, guaranteed, atleast in Noise CTFs, appear ALMOST every round or battle. In the end, you have to spend more time finding a proper battle or improvising tactics, than ACTUALLY PLAYING. After the SC, did the usage of supplies decrease? No. Infact, it was promoted by doubling supplies, so everyone can use them. After a while the hardcore ones started running low on them. So, they laid low till, as they expected, Tanki Developers reiterated Non-SC battles as a Pro-Battle option. Did this satisfy them? No, still no. They were still low on supplies, so they needed to get them somehow. That's when Tanki reinstated THE GAME. As expected, the Russians won. But they also got FREE Supplies. The Usage went up rapidly, and it got unbalanced soon. The Russiains dominated many games with their supplies. Just when they started to run low, Tanki released the Supply Kits. Now they could buy as much as they wanted. And, those who bought them, didn't need to worry about them running out because, before they do, they will be released again. That is some marketing from the devs. No one realized this either.
Anyways, back to my point, most people at my rank, use supplies, mainly the Health Kit. Now I have about 100 Double Power and 250 Nitros, 70 Double Armour. But Repair Kit? No, I only have two of them, which explains my point that the Health Kit can only be massively used by those who received free supplies from The GAME, or bought a Supply Kit. What does that mean? It means that, people will continue to use supplies at mass, SC won't stop (many of) them from pressing a button to change the outcome of a battle. Longer Cooldowns, and implication of the reduction of supply usage, is mandatory in this game.

dragonssk1 (#92) Tanki's main motive as a COMPANY is too make money. They implemented this system (the game today) as the most effective way of making money. I truly believe drugs help Tanki's income a lot, because it gives the player's satisfaction of that time on drugs, stronger, better and more effective in battle. People or user's like that effect and will keep buying or using that effect, hence Tanki would not remove this privileged because it makes money. It is really hard to change Tanki for the better of the players, but I totally agree with you. Battle's are truly unbalanced due to drugs, and Tanki made this Newspaper section just to distract players from the TRUTH of Tanki. The V-LOG was also just make to attract more new players around the world. We could get all the information on the V-Log's in my opinion in a much effective way on the forum. I feel your pain, as it is very difficult to not to press the number's on very decisive battles, in which buyers have a much greater advantage over you, and keep using supplies.

Baby_Sam (#126) I agree with you though. Unfortunately, TO wants the free battles to suck so everyone will be forced to buy PRO passes, but even when you do the default is as bad as the free battles.

Brubook (#1065) Many years ago marketing experts were using the "subliminal or hidden advertising" method. It was a technique so that the personal human attention wasn't focused on the wanted "message", as it was somehow "hidden". Hidden means that it was in just some frames on video or in the background of another main message. (read literature for more)

Tanki is actually using that NOW. Did you noticed that many promo material (like V-Log) often show xmas trees on victorious or good tanks, or battle situations? Did you noticed that when talking about a turret performance they say like "on DA it can shoot kill a tank". Together with that there are always promotions on supplies and the PRO battle defaults are with drugs activated.

They promote the figure of the "warrior" as the drugged tank in many ways. They give the worst message they can, especially considering the average age of players!

2.03 Supplies tend to become important because the game has become too competitive and win-demanding (that is connected with the way funds are created and distributed)

ArgentHellion (#272) ...2.) The allmighty "all is fair in love and war" and "the cause justifies the means" sayings do not apply on this subject, it's not all about just winning the game, some of us come to play and have fun, and losing is part of the experience as much as winning is... unless you are one of those players with a god complex who always pass the blame on others

as soon as things start to fall apart, in which case feel free to stay in your precious little bubble, I am tempted to leave you in it for good...

FogOfWar_XXX (#319) … I might not be the best player in the world, but I definitely, one, DON'T SUCK, two, am probably a well above average shaft player, and as such, I notice things, and I have noticed that the amount of work it is to play and try to be competitive is rising to the point of near impossibility with skill alone now. Bases constantly over run by drugged players, who spawn camp DRUGGED too, it's turkey shoot, we can't even run off and try to regroup and use some tactics, it's over before it starts, not because of the camping, but because the Rico sitting there is sheilded and DP and three hits will kill me, and I can't accelarate fast enough to at least didge one hit. That's an example, but it's all of the game play now. Hell, I can pick up a DP box and full charge on a mammoth and sometimes NOT kill it, and the arcade shot 3 seconds later, nope, they healed, HEALED, themselves, regularly. That sort of economics is unplayable if it becomes the norm.

2.04. Supplies are connected (through real money / top buyers) with other elements of power (superior tanks / paints) that lead to Godmode_on situations.

RustyNail (#300) It's reasonable that buyers should have an extra "help" in battles, an extra something in power, armor, velocity... and they do! They get better hulls, better turrets, better (and more) paints, they MU their tanks reaching M4 way before non buyers...

Constant use of supplies multiply the already remarkable advantage of buyers' better gismo leading to an invincible status that makes imposible for anyone to fight back.... that, is wrong and will be proved wrong, sooner or later.

RustyNail (#425) Some extra souldn't be rip everybody for fun. Some extra souldn't be one player managing half the opponent team. Some extra souldn't be a final score of 10-0 due just to constant drugging...

PuncherTank (#481) The issue of power selling is deep-rooted in the structure of this game beyond any practical possibility of substantial reform, especially with the current flash-based engine and its limited functionalities. The economy of the game was built to primarily depend on selling drastic power (supplies) and this is what buyers expect to get when they invest real money in the game. This is sad, frustrating, unfair, highly unprofessional...yes all true, but this is the way it is bound to be with this version of the game.

ArgentHellion (#484) Drugs don't win, drugs dominate, and that's the main problem with the game. The higher you get in rank, the more obvious this becomes, not to mention that players who actually pay considerable money ALWAYS have the upper hand equipmentwise... so, not only do they always have better gear than you, but they are also boosting that better gear, so it's double the pain and square the frustration...

Legolover3 (#698) I think the problem with "drugs" or supplies is that they amplify all skills/advantages. Since the buyers usually already have the better equipment, once they start drugging, they leave everyone in the dust, so there's a great disparity between them and even the most skilled non-drugger non-buyer.

RustyNail (#824) Drugging has been made a "must" in Tanki, but supplies from daily bonus does't last for long. So, if you want to move on you have to buy supplies. But, then it's not a free-to-play-game, is it?

No it's not.

Tanki sells all four parameters of power: tanks, paints, MUs and supplies. Top buyers can be slaughter machines and any non buyer in their way is just meat. Even small time buyers like me become also meat for those top buyers. So why should I keep paying Tanki? It's unethical, very unsporting and petty. Also, a poor marketing solution, for what matters.

UNITY 3 – POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS PROPOSED BY PLAYERS

3.01 Decrease the effect of supplies. A decrease in performance can restore balance in battles

Brubook (#1) This is why I want to propose a suggestion for developers: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra (as it is for speed), rather than double those features, or make the drug effect to temporarily give the next level characteristics (like a drugged M1 to be like a M2 for a limited time).

dragonssk1 (#92) The PRO pass is one option, but it is totally not effective due to the reasons that the original poster has stated. The best options is to decrease drug's influence and power, as it will only give you slight advantage and in some cases not ruin a whole game and an intense and fun battle.

FRITZECAT2014 (#702) The proposed Brubook (increase of power shoulds not be greater than the next upgrade parameters) is interesting. Thus a non-drugger retain its chance by opposing his technique.

Baby_Sam (#725) I think the cool-downs should be removed, and the power of supplies should be taken down to 30% and their prices should be rebalanced based on statistical data. On top of that, having the 4 classes of battles supply-wise: no supplies, drop boxes, drop boxes and supplies with cool-downs, drop boxes and supplies without cool-downs is good enough (if you want to keep cool-downs). Though, I think the supply thing is such a big problem maybe these options should be made free, or offer different classes of PRO passes with different prices and privileges.

HellfireCommando (#1243) One way I think could work to nerf drugs, is to instead of double the armor, maybe just add a set amount, that I guess could increase by rank. So instead of a m2 mammoth having 640 hp with DA, maybe it could have 420 instead, an increase of 100 hp. This wouldn't work with DD though, because then weapons like twins would either be really OP, or DD would just be completely useless, which isn't the goal.

deadmanrising (#1317) If you kept the ability to use 3 supplies at once and then nerf the supplies in order to make it more balanced in gameplay, such an update might have had a positive effect for both the company and the players, but instead its all about selling too much power, and allowing such players to come in and carelessly ruin battles for their pleasure and no one elses.

3.01.01 Deleting Repair kit will greatly improve the situations

Kayitsiz (#738) Do you really want a solution?

Delete heal drug, remove supply boxes, and give less drug to non-buyers. Or just delete heal drug! It is enough. If you delete heal drug, druggers will die anyway, so they will a team games, and they won't survive for Dms. But they will still will be stronger.

HellfireCommando (#1280) I would like to say also, health really needs a nerf. It's basically something that gives you full health, AND makes you invulnerable for 5 secs, along with taking away all negative effects. It basically just gives a player the ability to not have to shoot back and just drive around. Honestly, DA users, use health a lot too because of how it gives them now with DA, the equivalent of 500 hp, instead of 250 hp. Perhaps health could only heal up to the tank's base health amount (so half heal when using DA), doesn't last, just does an insta-heal perhaps, and can take off effects.

3.02 Increasing the cooldown period more than what it is today (less drugging time in battle)

RustyNail (#39) increasing the cooling period of all supplies Make every player, buyer or no, drugger or no, to have to stay undrugged for more. That way, he/she will have to play without power ups for a certain time.

The.Destroyer.FX (#203) … more time in smart cooldown (suggested by someone above) is a good alternate though.

racer22_online (#495) Smart cooldowns helped a lot, but have not quite gone far enough to improve the balance. I agree with RustyNail - extending the length of the cooldown to prevent re-use could be doubled or more.

3.03. Participating in Pro battles with no garage supplies allowed. Possible only if Pro pass gets a gradual (escalated), real and permanent discount.

Brubook (#3) The solution of PRO battle is:

- expensive (non drugging should be a privilege to pay for?)

- not so popular (for cost) as you say

- often of selected ranks (usually very high ranks only, for generalissimos)

As I said PRO battle should not be an expensive privilege. For a non payer or little payer the economic balance is important, if you want to get tank and turret adequate to the ranks you are.

Vikingsrall (#54) I, personally, rarely ever play matches with drugs. I find battles without them are more enjoyable and fair in comparison to full "234" battles as I call them (without smart supplies), as some go all out and some don't. I have an abundance of supplies. Do I go all out sometimes? Sure. Would I do it regularly? No. It gets mindless really fast; thus PRO battles are my solution. I also find XP to be the most strategic of the game in general (not comparing to clans tho). Takes a lot more than pressing 234.

CrimsonSaviour (#95) My suggestion is to promote PRO Pass somehow, and make Tankers from high to low see the beauty of using it. If it's a game of truly skill, then more PRO games would have been created!

beaku (#141) I got PRO pass in daily bonus today. Didn't find a single good battle

Brubook (#145) Again, apart price, for evenings Europe time (but not only), PRO battles are rare, often specific (like XP), very often NOT drug limited, and often not practicable for and average player (like 999 flags). Many people here have school, work or else and a 999 flags (or minutes) is quite an endurance performance!

Today PRO battle is not an alternative to avoid drugging!

dilsharox (#208) tanki should give new players info about pro battles & make them more popular at low ranks by reducing the price of the pass

Brubook (#227) … On higher ranks there are few PRO battle, they are mostly for generalissimo and abt. 90% of them allow drugging (you can select any option). On lower ranks the PRO battles are even more rare, and dramatically too expensive!

Baby_Sam (#232) When I was a junior officer , I was dreaming about the time I could afford M0 Rico (1900 crystals), especially after I got the M0 Shaft, let alone splurging 5000 crystals to get a PRO pass. I now earn ~5000 crystals a day and still do not see it worth it, but I think I am going to get it a few ranks later.

ArgentHellion (#234) … 3.) I said it several times and I will repeat myself once again:

Don't bother removing drugs alltogether, it's much easier to limit their usage. Give us the option to create regular matches WITHOUT them and that would pretty much solve our pains. Douchebag druggers will remain in their drugged out matches and won't be coming our way once you force them to leave their main source of might at the front door of fair-play heaven.

MAFIOZA121 (#246) PRO battles are NOT an effective alternative to battles with supplies mainly because, as said many times before in this topic, even if you have the pass and are able to earn enough in a month to repay its cost, you'll still spend ages trying to find a suitable PRO battle. For lower ranks PRO battles are basically non-existent, but even for higher ranks PRO battles are limited to a whole bunch of XP/BP matches and a few Kungurs/Polygons, which get really old after a while. Creating your own battle is an option, but you'll spend an hour trying to get enough people to enter, which is no fun at all.'

MAFIOZA121 (#249) Although, now that I thought about it more - lots has changed since that experiment and the PRO battles pass is now more of a payment for the ability to customise your battles more to make your gameplay experience more interesting. No-supply battles are only a small part of it, so I doubt that it will affect the developers much if they just made the supply disabling option free for normal battles.

Rohrmeister (#255) If you would make pro passes more popular in lower and medium ranks:

-> then more people would have more fun in the game

-> and the place where I have fun, is the place I spend my money in (for weapons)

But to earn this money you would have to change something in the way, pro passes are hanlded by marketing today. I do not understand why you don't use this chance. Everytime I point that out, I get no replies..

-> relationship of fun, spend money and pro passes

-> invited marketing people to participate in discussion

ArgentHellion (#267) On this current rank, it takes me a full week of battling 3-4 hours daily to

gather 5k crystals, not counting the rare promotion boosts. So now I'm in a dilema: should I pay for a PRO PASS and play with starter gear to get stomped on by everybody else, or avoid the pass and suffer through the drugged out matches until I can upgrade my gear to fight back. Well honestly I prefer the ladder, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger ... or it just flatout kills you and then you don't have to worry about a thing... The main issue is not that drugs are ruining high-ranked pro matches, they are ruining the casual matches, you know... THE MAJORITY of matches, the ones most of us are forced to play so we can advance beyond them. Fine, maybe when I advance to a high enough rank to gain 5k crystals on a daily basis, I wouldn't belch much to pay for a PRO PASS, but until then, I will play the game with a sore throat and a headache from all the druggers who are ruining my experience...

ArgentHellion (#340) PRO PASSES need to be cheaper, so lower ranks can participate in advanced battles... No scratch that, I personally think PRO PASSES need to be re-worked. Most online games out there with a match-creation system offer all the options right of the start, you don't have to be a privileged player and buy a randomly named token to unlock those options, you just have them and period.

ThouShallNot (#359) They should make pro pass cheaper for low ranks.

racer22_online (#513) the fact that so many people see something is wrong with 'garage drug' use is evidence that this issue will not go away. Also the fact that most Pro battles are setup with no 'garage drug' use is proof this is the most popular option (and not boring). As has been said, all of us who prefer non garage drug use should just move to Pro Mode. If there were plenty of Pro Mode battles to choose from then this is where I would go - end of discussion. ... It may take months at 500 crystals to get Pro Mode to be popular enough.

Papaya14 (#1054) I think if Tanki wishes to bring back some shred of balance to the game, their best hope would be to introduce cheaper series of PRO passes, like they did with experience pass. A one-day pass for 75 crystals, a one-week pass for 250 crystals, and a one-month pass for 1000 crystals. Not final figures, but overall it's best to increase availability to PRO passes for the every-tankman, rather than seal it all away for an abysmally high 5000 crystal cost. You notice that during the 90% discount, there was also a 90% increase in PRO battles, and a 90% increase in happy players? That's no coincidence.

3.04 Remove the “lots of supplies” kits from garage

RustyNail (#65) ... the 1-2-3 phenomenon was present AFTER the give away of hundreds of supplies for free from Tanki (after the battle of Rusty Barrels II)? Before that, no big issues with drugging existed. So, it's a matter of frequene of use really. An issue that can be solved easily by removing the supplies kits and by increasing the cooling period for all the supplies.

RustyNail (#496) … supplies was a wise mean to make battles just a little bit unstable, so that based on the skill and strategy the outcome would be unpredictable.

But in order to operate as salt and pepper they had to remain limited, just like salt and pepper in our food. Drug kits spoiled the mechanism. Very cheap (relatively) salt and pepper made rich people to apply kilos per battle, making it extremely salty and hot. That's a simple truth that only someone that hasn't played Tanki doesn't see. Or someone that has invested a lot of expectations in supplies sales. Which is the case here.

RustyNail (#532) What appears as an unbalance of the game in regard to drugs is due to people buying drugs and thus having a much larger number available in battle than those players that only save from daily bonus (and in-battle drops). Practically, drug-buyers can afford constant use of drugs while drug-non buyers cannot afford that. Constant use of drugs make players extremely OP due to large boost that drugs provide. We suggested some changes that would lessen the performance gap between constant use and occasional use. One was decrease the power of drugs, the other was increase cooling period of drugs. Both were rejected by Tanki Devs

Strawwitz (#576) It is these huge discount supply Kits that are really causing the problem. I have bought them just because is it is a discount for the Health kits, and along with them you get 300-500 of everything else, They pile up and cause DRUG ABUSE , because people have so many laying around.

3.05 Develop alternative income resources, preferably ones that don't sell power (so that supplies sales may be reduced without draining Tanki.

RustyNail (#668) I mean, supplies sales where not that much of an income before RUSTY BARRELS II. Before the "mistake" that gave away so many supplies to all the players.. Only after that, people got used to drug like hell.. and supplies' sales took off. So, what was their bread those days? And what happened to it? Is it, maybe, that supplies sales are not the bread but the butter that's on the bread? But that's not really my concern. I never said that Tanki shouldn't make a living, or a fortune for what matters. As long as they don't squeeze players too much. And as a small time buyer I feel squeezed. If Tanki wants or needs extra money, it should find another item to sell, one that doesn't give so much power to top buyers.

RustyNail (#838) Nobody is satisfied by playing the sitting duck for the godmode_on. A good game may give satisfaction to both winners and losers. It's a game, meant to give joy, to almost all its players. Removing some of the power top buyers aquire (or exchanging it for other, non-power elements) will make game more balanced and interesting for all.

3.05.01 Sell Adverts on the Bilboards that are in the maps so that there will be no more need for massive supplies sales.

racer22_online (#495) I think Tanki should gain revenue from adverts on the billboards in the game to take pressure off revenue from drug use (and for that matter much more creative use could be used of the billboards - perhaps a good idea for a Tanki competition?)

3.05.02 Co-operate with big models manufacturer for promoting Tanki models (or other stuff, like T-shirts, gifts etc)

racer22_online (#1239) I have no idea why Tanki do not cash in on the 'bric-a-brac' that goes with most 'hyped' marketing for the last 30 years - Tanki is a goldmine to be exploited - with this money they can forget about drug sales.

Another idea: why not approach Lego (5th largest toy producer) and ask them to make Tanki tanks of all sizes and shapes (interchangeable turrets etc.) and R/C power functions - even EV3 controlled! Remember you saw it here first :0)

3.06 Remove the garage supplies option for winning team (as long as there is a going difference in score / flags the winning team can use only drops)

racer22_online (#495) To help balance the battles why not make it a rule that only the losing side can use garage drugs. I.e. make this a standard mode battle setup 'OPTION' and see what happens. My bet is this option would be very popular and most would be happy that the winning (leading) team cannot use garage drugs. The druggers remain happy because they still have the option to setup battles with normal smart cooldowns.

3.07 Stats table include a column displaying amount of supplies used by each player (just like personal score or kills, etc)

racer22_online (#543) Another idea - how about on the 'Stats' screen at the end of a game (or even on the Tab key) adding a column showing the number of garage drugs used by each tank (just a total will do). Might shame a few into using less garage drugs!

... Or at least these stats will confirm to the rest of us what's going on. I.e. more likely help us escape games containing heavy drug users and find better balanced games.

Destroyer8-k (#1036) 1 great idea is to show amounts of drugs used by the player in the battle end scorecard.I think I have read it here at this page,and I wanted to bring it up again.It will stop the people with shame from using drugs.

3.08 Restriction of (garage?) supplies usage per time of battle (allowed number under discussion)

FRITZECAT2014 (#702) limiting the numbers of drug uses (eg 5 for a battle of 15 mn + boxes) would generate 2 positives things :

1. Fair play (as destroying all his opponents in one shot with a supercharged weapon then immediatly return health to cancel the shooting that he may have had to time to launch during this small second, it obviously do not.... !)

2. Giving back to the strategy the main role in the victory :

- At what time I use this aid ? : at the beggining - to take a psychological advantage or end of the battle - to return a compromise situation, to help an ally in trouble or to make trouble in the opposing camp, or when I almost brought the flag and that a opponent arises....?

- And as I have only 5, wich I use ? : at this point of the battle rather the speed to catch a spinning opponent with the flag, at a different time of the battle firepower against a more shielded enemy.....

3.09 Supplies' use include some side effect / self-damage to the user (so that parallel use of all three supplies means a considerable disadvantage)

Rohrmeister (#912) Tthrough power and devastation:

a double-damage user receives 5..10% of dealt damage as self damage by each shot he makes (turret overheat)
a tank using DA offers to each and every weapon shooting at it the chance of a critical damamge hit (bypassing DA erffect and so dealing 100% damage and not 50% damage). Visible by smokey critical damage effect.
Or if both - DD and Nitro - would lead to burning damage from an overheated turret or engine

by tactical advantages:

when you are on double Armour, a health pack restores only 50% of your health
using DD or Nitro for some time makes your tank overheat and glow.. revealing your position on the battlefield
hitting a tank infront of you by using DD makes the explosion so powerfull, that it inflicts self damage to you
double armour makes your tank heavier and therefor a little slower (80% if inital speed, use nitro to compensate)
double armour stores heat energy and therefor the freeze and afterburn effect last more longer
Tanks on Nitro drive at 130% of their initial speed. After the Nitro is over they should run at 80% of their initial speed due to a required engine cooldown. Timing should ensure that this is not instantly recompensatable by another nitro.

CN_Alpha (#1182) They should add an dark side for drugs, like in real world drugs,

here are some suggestions;

1. Players will reduce some HP when they use Double Damage (like 5 % of HP)

2. Players will reduce score or reduce no. of kills when they use Repair Kit (by 10 score or 1 kill)

3. Players will lost some score for using Double Armor

4. Speed Booster is not a pain so be it like that.

5. Mines already have dark effect (mines disappear when die)

Destroyer8-k (#1281) I just loved the idea Rusty and Rohrmeister(On another thread) said,side effects for drugs.Its probably the best idea given in this thread.

Here's my variant:

1) If you use double armour,then repair kits heal only 50%.

2) Double power increases the damage you receive by 20%(could be changed)

3) Nitro,well it isnt OP,so there's no problem with it

4) I couldn't think of nerfing repair kits in anyway other than increasing cool-down.

3.10 Restriction of supply use, only one (or two) at a time (garage or drop, the same)

Wildgooseman (#1192) I would like it that Tankers can only use one drug at a time, even if they are airdrops. That way you must pick which of the 3 (armour/speed/dp) you want to use. After the drug has run out there will be a 30 second gap before you can activate the next one.

MrsTankBuster2 (#1253) Personally, I like the previous ideas of nerfing the power of all supplies to 30% or only allowing one or two supplies to be active at the same time, whether from the garage or drop boxes. Maybe one could not have DD and DA active at the same time - they would have to make a choice (they could still use repair kits, speed and mines as before).

3.11 Division of servers according to standard / pro battles, so that Pro passes find each other easily

MrsTankBuster2 (#1253) Also, and I've said this before, servers should be split so that all pro games are on the same server/s (same for CP) so like-minded players are not spread thinly over many servers trying to find each other, and fuller games can be created.

3.12 Decreasing supplies performance if two or three applied at the same time

RustyNail (#1332) One more proposal in regard to supplies used together.

Maybe the "power" of the supply is relative to the use of any other, in a way like smart cooldowns.

That is, a supply gives 100% its power when used alone

If another one is added , then they both give 75% of their power.

If a third is added, then all three fall to 50% of their power.

Same applies for repair kit in regard to other supplies.

If applied when one other supply is activated, it gives 100% restore of health.

If applied when two supplies are active, then it restores 75% of health.

If applied when all three are active, then it restores only 50% of health.

Thus, the more one uses supplies, the less strong they are.

3.13 Two dinstict “standard” modes, one for druggers, one for sportsmen (plus the existing Pro mode)

racer22_online (#1333) The current "standard mode" could be named "Annihilation Mode" (or something more acceptable to Tanki ("Supplies Mode") but we will probably know it as "Druggi Mode"). A new standard mode OPTION, could be called "Sport Mode" = same as Standard Mode but each side allowed say Max of 3 of each garage drug to be used every 15 mins (or similar), the aim being to prevent the serial druggers. When a battle is setup - it is either setup as "Supplies Mode" or "Sport Mode". This way Tanki does not have to make the choice for us - i.e. we decide.

AND we still have Pro Mode if ever Tanki can make that more popular.

RustyNail Many interesting ideas have gathered during this long lasted topic. Tanki can take them into consideration. Maybe, the most practical is a combination of some, in a small percentage, so that all changes come smoothly. For instance, a little nerf of supplies (5-10%) while at the same time an also small prolong of cooling period is applied (say 5 secs) and an extra nerfing when more of one supplies are combined (same counts for repear kit), then all together will allow non druggers to stand a chance in battle, making the game more fair and interesting.

EPILOGUE – TANKI ADMINISTRATION AND DRUGS, TWO VIDEOS and SOME THOUGHTS

So far, Tanki deliberately and consistently is looking the other side, ignoring the severity of this issue. They claim this is a consious decision, and a right one. Are they right? If it is, it's not obvious. Or put in another way, there is reasonable doubt about it.

Brubook (#1) On the TO Newsletter and on the forum I have been reading thousands of words on strategy, "the best hull-turret combination", "how a specific weapon works", "how to organize a flag capture", and so on .... but the reality of the game now is: I DRUG = I WIN and I DON'T DRUG = I LOOSE. That is it!

RustyNail (#169) All in all, combining superior gismo (hull, turret, paint, MUs) with a sufficient quantity of power ups (safficient for constant use) creates Godmode_on conditions. That is, big time buyers can practically buy EVERY battle they're in.

Is that what you want? I would appreciate a direct answer.

Hazel-Rah (#171) Yes.
Buyers can win every battle. Non-buyers can win when they save-up or play it smart. SCD made it fair enough and as I stated many time using supplies WILL NEVER BE REMOVED as it is integral part of the game pace and monetization.
There goes your direct answer.

Hazel-Rah (#210) There is no such issue with less players at the moment. It seems to be "critical mass" chooses to use supplies, ruther then not.

We would like to close this sum up quoting some indicative and conclusive opinions from players, as well as offering the link of two very usefull videos that explain the philosophy of MMOgs.

blacksouleater (#1306) Nobody likes being beat up. Especially when his opponent suddenly grows a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier. I see no fairness in that. Do you?

blacksouleater (#1348) This game drew me with it's claim to good competition in a unique way. Now that I have been here for awhile, I see that it was a lie.

This game has a big problem here. If they don't do something to reign it in all you will have is massive drugger competition, the fun competition minded folks will move on and sooner or later this game will fail.

Brubook (#345) Well, as I said, time pass and world evolves. Games evolve as economy, marketing, societies, engineers. Everything evolves accordingly to humans needs and human satisfaction ... why shouldn't Tanki do the same?

Obviously everything evolves for better living, better gaming, better transportations. I believe that Tanki ideators and devs are clever persons, that (on the commercial/marketing side) can feel trends and needs. So, if this (drug matter) could be a trend, I think that at least should be properly investigated and comments on this post should be somehow taken into account in investigation!

And again ... all this is meant for a better and better Tanki Online game!!!

ArgentHellion (#349) As far as I'm concerned, if nothing changes in ..., I will be permanently leaving this game just like any other that failed to deliver on my expectations. I'm an adult and I want to play my games and have my fun in a reasonable way, expecting me to put up with juvenile whales is downright disrespectful and many gamers will agree with me on this. Give us the chance to separate ourselves from the druggers within the game, or we will be separating ourselves from the game itself... permanently...

Rohrmeister (#462) Remember: Where my fun is, there I spend my money on

https://youtu.be/Mhz9OXy86a0

https://youtu.be/FwI0u9L4R8U

A special thank to @RustyNail , who did the major work to realize this complete sum up. Thanks for his time and for his effort, his ideas and his contributions.

I want to thank all players, mods and devs that participated to this discussion with their interesting contributions, ideas and feelings on this matter. Some of them listed below.

Players

@masoud_b @magnaboy2 @Rohrmeister @MrsTankBuster2 @Batmode_ON @bobbyswag2 @dragonssk1 @CrimsonSaviour @Strawwitz @FAMOUSWATERMELON @Baby_Sam @FogOfWar_XXX @NewbieCake @Stinger911 @ArgentHellion @x_Sorinel_x @The.Destroyer.FX @dilsharox @generalpotato_PRO @danyrito @Destroyer8-k @GurmitSingh @mateies @swede1 @Mickey_Nickz @bravo30 @kayitsiz @PuncherTank @racer22_online @fufususumumu1 @angelokiller17645 @newrohan @GurmitSingh @iamnoni_PRO @Papaya14 @kyles6 @Widow-Maker @Tanker1928374655 @Jazzter @Annihilatoid @dragonride @GorcsevIvan @Timboy03 @HyperQuantum @Legolover3 @FRITZECAT2014 @JamesLewisTX @Panther756 @creeperskelly @canadarules @T.O.T.A.L.W.A.R @opidude @Flexoo @anshi_bringitup @Meowmix56 @viduranga-x @deadmanrising @Chameleos @N3tralRE @HaloScorpionV2 @F_X_1 @thunderousrailgunner @SvenArnold @L.I.B.E.R.A.T.O.R @applications_tanki @CN_Alpha @wildgooseman @fighter309 @Caprikorn @sha77777_super @orangebee @legolane @duje225_awesome @samuelmanasseh @Darky01 @greyat @TriNitroToIuene @devastator911alt @Super_Karan @Klankill804 @irfaan12 @generalpotato_PRO @last_warrior @Kelty @Darren4Turbo @R_O_M_I_O_O @NOT_Insane @Xenophobia @ariking777 @newrohan @Widow-Maker @Jboymark53 @ireland_tanker @liverpoolaum @Indra_Otsutsuki @kokoszka95 @knight237238 @AlphaStarling @Poklakni @servant_no_1 @Destrod @blacksouleater @Thomas_Sun @kmpa

Devs & Mods

@deadtoyou @DarkOperative @S.C.Y.T.H.E @Remaine

Thank you for reading or commenting into this topic. Also thanks for any upvoting, which is necessary if you want something to change in regard to drugging!

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