Reduce power of garage supplies

[Brubook 1,161]

100 pages - wow.

 

I like the new topic ('Poll') that suggests we ONLY get crystals for daily missions - then we can choose what we need and not be forced to have massive stocks of unwanted supplies.  (Won't happen because, a drug pusher will always try and get users hooked by giving free or discounted samples!)

 

However, I do note that gaining crystals has become easier - yesterday I managed 10k in 2 hours.

I hope this means more us can afford a Pro Pass?

Latest news .... they halved missions rewards!! "Negative economical impact" they said!

Translating it, they gave out too much and they cannot drain people to bones anymore!

 

Sad Tanki strategy ... if we can call it strategy! :(

[RustyNail 1,538]

Latest news .... they halved missions rewards!! "Negative economical impact" they said!

Translating it, they gave out too much and they cannot drain people to bones anymore!

 

Sad Tanki strategy ... if we can call it strategy! :(

Where did you see it?

[Brubook 1,161]

Where did you see it?

Here, Rusty: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=276296&hl=

[ChineseTankMan 98]

 

UPDATE: DUE TO THE LENGTH OF THE DISCUSSION WE MADE A SUM-UP OF THE TOPIC (after about 70 pages).

 

POSTS #1 AND #2 OPEN THE DISCUSSION, THEN YOU DON'T NEED TO READ IT ALL THROUGH.

 

 

YOU CAN FIND SUM-UP WITH MOST CONTRIBUTIONS AND IDEAS AT POST #1411 - PAGE 71

 

LINK: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=246957&page=71&do=findComment&comment=4714520

 

THANK YOU

 

 

Anyone in the actual game is forced to drug if he want to have a chance to win a battle, and a battle is definitely won by the more drugged team. Is really this the devs idea for the game? Is the all game a matter of pressing the right drug button? I hope not!

And if you add the heal button the thing gets even worse.

 

Anyway this makes the game a mere matter of drugs, which I hope it is not DEVS idea of the game! Right now if someone comes drugged to me, I know that I am dead if I don't drug too. No matter what rank or weapon! Very sad!

 

Right now I feel hopeless when I enter a battle ... it is not a good feeling and it will probably make me abandon this great game, if something doesn't change! And this idea is spreading on many and many Tanki players!

 

 

From one weapon or hull upgrade to another (M1 to M2 for example) the rise in characteristics is abt. 20-25%.

Using a drug actually hypotetically rise you of 4-5 level. A M2 weapon become M6 or M7 !!!!!

 

This is a terrible unbalancing of the game.

 

This makes it impossible any fair face to face between a drugger and one who is not.

 

This makes the game a matter of "drug = I win" or "no drug = I loose"

 

On the TO Newsletter and on the forum I have been reading thousands of words on strategy, "the best hull-turret combination", "how a specific weapon works", "how to organize a flag capture", and so on .... but the reality of the game now is: I DRUG = I WIN and I DON'T DRUG = I LOOSE. That is it! Sad, isn't it?

 

This makes the strategy "only with drugs I win"; this means anyone that wants to win has to drugs; this makes everyone drug; this makes the game both odd for drug-non drug comparison and even for drug-drug fight.

 

The purpose is (or should be) to rely more on skills and ability, strategy and better weapon use, rather than press a button or a desperate search of a power-up as the only "strategy" of playing.

The point is allowing a non-payer or a low-payer to enjoy the game too. This is apparently an anti-economic concept for Tanki, but it is the exact contrary instead. More players means more paying players in percentage and many players give a necessary base (critical mass) for the game to be interesting for everyone. It is a matter of numbers!

 

 

This is why I want to propose a suggestion for developers: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra (as it is for speed), rather than double those features, or make the drug effect to temporarily give the next level characteristics (like a drugged M1 to be like a M2 for a limited time).

This would also make people feel and try how is the weapon or hull on the next level on that feature.

 

Did you all ever noticed that increase of speed is of 30%? Why it is not doubled speed? Also the devs realised that double speed would be too much ... same as for other drugs!!! Power and resistance are pumped up too much!

Same thing for steps (M0 to M1, M1 to M2, M2 to M3). Did you all noticed that every step gives about 20-25% of increase in performances? Why? I mean a hunter M1 costs 29.900 crystals, a wasp M2 costs 102.700 crystals, a dictator M3 costs 223.000 crystals. Why we get ONLY a 20-25% increase for all those crystals? Probably to allow a range of ranks to play together. And why did they need to do that? Probably to have a balanced game.

 

The process of bringing drugs to a +25% increase may be done gradually: a decrease of extra power and resistance to a max of 25-30% of extra, rather than double those features. This can be done gradually to let anyone get used to it, by reducing a 15-20% a week till the target. In this way it will probably not even noticed and it will be accepted by drug addicted.

 

A non drug section would be also welcome (not a PAY one). If I have to pay to find non druggers, I will not have the crystal to buy tanks, turrets or upgrades!

 

I suggest a serious brain storming on this topic.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

12 may 2015 edit:

 

On one of the last posts (#779) Rohrmeister came up with a great idea. He also made up the poster below. Have a look at it and follow if you like.

Thank you

 

 

Thanks to Rohrmeister

 

You are conveniently ignoring those who win by cheating (are you one of them?):

A- by putting tanks into the other team's slots so that actual players can't join (sabotaging)

B- hacking (either things to directly improve your tank and/or indirectly to hamper theirs)

 

"drugging" is the legal/ethical way to fairly compete against the winning cheaters.

 

 

Regarding MY drugging, I generally only do so now if:

1- it's not a PRO battle I'm playing in

2- any of my opponents are hacking

3- any of my opponents are sabotaging my team (ie/ filling up my team's spots with tanks that play little to never of their round time)

4- any of my opponents drug first before/during attacking me

[N3tralRE 282]

While I commend Tanki for their attempt at halting daily missions' dissuasive effects on buyers (why buy crystals when I can complete a multitude of missions and earn my share?  Buying them is too easy; I like challenge completing missions for crystals ), I only wonder if Tanki will implement any goodies (i.e. more special shiny paints and other customization features?) that tankers will be glad they spent their money on.

[ChineseTankMan 98]

Thanks for the wording correction and invite, Brubook.

 

In short:

 

- I disagree with your PRO battle suggestions for the same reason as the other battles
- I disagree with your other battles suggestions because the current drugging system is the most effective way to compete against cheaters

[Brubook 1,161]

You are conveniently ignoring those who win by cheating (are you one of them?):

A- by putting tanks into the other team's slots so that actual players can't join (sabotaging)

B- hacking (either things to directly improve your tank and/or indirectly to hamper theirs)

 

"drugging" is the legal/ethical way to fairly compete against the winning cheaters.

 

Well, cheater/saboteurs/hackers is an important issue ... yet it has not been considered here as it is supposed to be prohibited!

I think that it is an important yet different subject, so it never came out here in this discussion from anyone and I think it should be separately discussed.

 

I think (only my opinion) that noone will contrast your statement here, so I agree with you limited to this.

 

The main point here is the overpower of drugs that create really bad game unbalance. Also, if I was a cheater/saboteurs/hackers, I think I wouldn't come here and discuss about fairness, sportmanship and good game playing, no? (that wasn't a nice question!)

 

Just a note: please spoiler long quoted text, thank you!

[ChineseTankMan 98]

Dealing with cheaters is important.
"Drugging" is the only strong option to successfully countering almost all the cheaters.
So yes, it is the same subject.

 

And regarding why you typed what you did? It's best we don't continue down that discussion or else it will turn into flaming... :)

[Brubook 1,161]

Thanks for the wording correction and invite, Brubook.

 

In short:

 

- I disagree with your PRO battle suggestions for the same reason as the other battles

- I disagree with your other battles suggestions because the current drugging system is the most effective way to compete against cheaters

Wow, you are faster than me in writing!! :)

 

Thank you for coming, I am pleased to see you here!

 

I noticed that you are quite upset with cheaters! And I totally agree on that! I guess you had some bad experiences (maybe more than some) with cheaters/saboteurs/hackers ... bad thing!

 

Now try to cancel cheaters out and see the drugging thing in a "regular" battle ... ok, that is where my point come from!

 

Have fun

[ChineseTankMan 98]

It's possible to stop drugging but it's not possible to stop cheating.

Hence the reason to keep the drugging option.

 

Where do almost all mass murderers successfully go to end the lives of others? Where powerful weapons are legally disallowed...

[Brubook 1,161]

It's possible to stop drugging but it's not possible to stop cheating.

Hence the reason to keep the drugging option.

 

Where do almost all mass murderers successfully go to end the lives of others? Where powerful weapons are legally disallowed...

But ... noone here wants to remove drugs! They have to be just modified in their excessive overpower!

[ChineseTankMan 98]

If you want to know what it feels like to be a drugger (step into his or her shoes) then use an alt account - the ability to use the skills of a higher rank coupled with a limited amount of supplies (or even field supplies) makes a slaughter of new players quite easy.

 

But it's not much fun.

garding MY drugging, I generally only do so now if:

1- it's not a PRO battle I'm playing in

2- any of my opponents are hacking

3- any of my opponents are sabotaging my team (ie/ filling up my team's spots with tanks that play little to never of their round time)

4- any of my opponents drug first before/during attacking me

[ChineseTankMan 98]

But ... noone here wants to remove drugs! They have to be just modified in their excessive overpower!

And if that happens the cheaters will be successful far more often.

So either significantly reduce the possibility to cheat

or increase the power of the purchased supplies.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

More power? An M3 Thunder can already one shot my hull as it is. Why does said user need more power by using DD?

 

The game is least fun when everyone is driving around one-shotting each other.

[RustyNail 1,538]

Thanks for the wording correction and invite, Brubook.

 

In short:

 

- I disagree with your PRO battle suggestions for the same reason as the other battles

- I disagree with your other battles suggestions because the current drugging system is the most effective way to compete against cheaters

 

Dude, what you say makes no sense, since you defend your drugging - IF that's what you do, do you know what drugging means here? - as a means for dealing with other unjust and against the rules behavior.

So, what you practically say is "oppose injustice with a new injustice". Because one single drugger, even if we suppose is dealing with a mult, yet he can ruin many players' game.

Funny thing, you say you don't accept any of the many suggestions gathered by many players to solve the issue.

My guess, you like drugging and search for an excuse to apply.

[ChineseTankMan 98]

Dude, what you say makes no sense, since you defend your drugging - IF that's what you do, do you know what drugging means here? - as a means for dealing with other unjust and against the rules behavior.

So, what you practically say is "oppose injustice with a new injustice". Because one single drugger, even if we suppose is dealing with a mult, yet he can ruin many players' game.

Funny thing, you say you don't accept any of the many suggestions gathered by many players to solve the issue.

My guess, you like drugging and search for an excuse to apply.

Of course I know what I was saying.

 

Drugging is not unjust nor against the rules.

Sabotaging and hacking are both.

Drugging is the most effective way to counter both.

 

And you haven't read my other responses then because I have agreed to some people's suggestions, altered some, and made some of my own.

 

 

And for those complaining about us who drug, if it weren't for us they wouldn't have the money to keep improving this game. So thank us instead.

 

Regarding MY drugging, I generally only do so now if:

1- it's not a PRO battle I'm playing in

2- any of my opponents are hacking

3- any of my opponents are sabotaging my team (ie/ filling up my team's spots with tanks that play little to never of their round time)

4- any of my opponents drug first before/during attacking me

 

- the famous/"infamous" ChineseTankMan

P.S. I chose this username because when I saw a YouTube vid 2 years ago about a dude from decades ago, I out of awe named me after him. Sorry to disappoint you but that is my reason. I am neither Chinese nor have I ever visited China. But I'll defend them from racism, along with all other races including the blue skinned Na'vi and Smurfs! :P

[ChineseTankMan 98]

It's possible to stop drugging but it's not possible to stop cheating.

Hence the reason to keep the drugging option.

 

Where do almost all mass murderers successfully go to end the lives of others? Where powerful weapons are legally disallowed...

[RustyNail 1,538]

Of course I know what I was saying.

 

Drugging is not unjust nor against the rules.

Sabotaging and hacking are both.

Drugging is the most effective way to counter both.

 

And you haven't read my other responses then because I have agreed to some people's suggestions, altered some, and made some of my own.

 

 

And for those complaining about us who drug, if it weren't for us they wouldn't have the money to keep improving this game. So thank us instead.

 

Regarding MY drugging, I generally only do so now if:

1- it's not a PRO battle I'm playing in

2- any of my opponents are hacking

3- any of my opponents are sabotaging my team (ie/ filling up my team's spots with tanks that play little to never of their round time)

4- any of my opponents drug first before/during attacking me

 

- the famous/"infamous" ChineseTankMan

P.S. I chose this username because when I saw a YouTube vid 2 years ago about a dude from decades ago, I out of awe named me after him. Sorry to disappoint you but that is my reason. I am neither Chinese nor have I ever visited China. But I'll defend them from racism, along with all other races including the blue skinned Na'vi and Smurfs! :P

 

You are trolling, therefore I stop dealing with you.

I suggest you leave this topic alone.

I also suggest you get a life.

 

 

p.s. we-don't-care

[ChineseTankMan 98]

You are trolling, therefore I stop dealing with you.

I suggest you leave this topic alone.

I also suggest you get a life.

 

 

p.s. we-don't-care

 

If you don't care then you would have ignored me.

 

And I'm not a troll, unlike some of those I responded to and some of those who responded to me:

 

//A troll can be anyone who aims to disturb communication or ruin someone else's mood or experience while online.

Sometimes, people are simply rude and aggressive without trying to behave like a troll -- particularly if they disagree with the subject of a conversation.//

- http://computer.howstuffworks.com/troll.htm

 

I wasn't aiming to do either. I knew that some may end up reacting that way but there is no way to please everyone, not even if you say/type nothing because some people (like me) get upset when people don't come to the defense against abusers.

 

But yeah, I might stop typing in this specific thread, though I am not promising that.

 

[HyperQuantum 362]

R u saying that drugging acts as a tool against cheating?...

 

It's like Country A saying that they too should own nuclear weapons as a deterrent, because Country B already has it. So as both countries have nuclear weapons, the world will be in peace?

 

And no, I'm not going into politics.

The context above is purely for illustration purposes only.

[r_priyangshu0 270]

Of course I know what I was saying.

 

Drugging is not unjust nor against the rules.

Sabotaging and hacking are both.

Drugging is the most effective way to counter both.

Is it me, or you think every person who goes against drugs is a cheater? You always use the argument that drugging is required to stop cheaters as it is the most efficient way to do so. Well, I disagree, the issue of cheating (and maybe even excessive drugging) can be reduced significantly by altering the monetary system and reducing the incentive to cheat/drug to win. Druggers are far more widespread than cheaters. Drugging cannot be justified by your argument as a whole because drugs are being used only to have satisfaction by pwning others, not as defense against cheaters. In short- drugs are used to gain an advantage by users, not to even odds, though ironically, if everyone uses them, who gets the advantage?

The lower half of your comment states how YOU use your drugs, we are talking about druggers in general, who seem to care less about explaining their reason and more about pwning everyone just because they bought a drug kit.

[Brubook 1,161]

And if that happens the cheaters will be successful far more often.

So either significantly reduce the possibility to cheat

or increase the power of the purchased supplies.

I don't agree with you on this. You cannot fight cheaters giving more drug power, as the majority of people will use that excessive power against everyone. You cannot leave this "consciousness" to players! As you see now already, drugs are used too much, and I don't think half of the players are cheater or saboteurs ... no?

 

Also it is a devs work to prevent cheating effectively using or creating measures for that!

[ChineseTankMan 98]

I don't agree with you on this. You cannot fight cheaters giving more drug power, as the majority of people will use that excessive power against everyone. You cannot leave this "consciousness" to players! As you see now already, drugs are used too much, and I don't think half of the players are cheater or saboteurs ... no?

 

Also it is a devs work to prevent cheating effectively using or creating measures for that!

That is why we should make getting drugs more difficult (ie/ the freebies and missions, box drops, etc.).

Almost all of us paying customers don't hack/sabotage.

A huge minority of free using customers do.

So when they get the drugs without buying them, they end up adding drugs to their already cheating ways.

That is why the buyers need the option of buying drugs to counter the cheaters.

 

I rarely use paid drugs when not competing against cheaters.

 

And to your other question:

Devs cannot eliminate cheating, but they can provide "weapons" (ie/ bought supplies; "drugs") to us potential victims ;)

[ChineseTankMan 98]

So we'll have to agree to disagree (at least for the time being).

 

Thanks for the invite to your thread but now that I've accomplished what I set out to do (have you at least seriously consider a view contrary to yours), I will now leave the thread.

Peace :)

[ChineseTankMan 98]

R u saying that drugging acts as a tool against cheating?...

 

It's like Country A saying that they too should own nuclear weapons as a deterrent, because Country B already has it. So as both countries have nuclear weapons, the world will be in peace?

 

And no, I'm not going into politics.

The context above is purely for illustration purposes only.

 

Sorry, my last response post before I leave the thread (didn't see this post before I posted my leaving post):

 

...either eliminate all potential to create weapons

or allow everyone (who meets certain sanity criteria, lol, and safety training criteria) access to the same weapons.

- hacking is a "weapon"

- sabotaging is a "weapons"

 

Take care...