Reduce power of garage supplies

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I estimate the break even point for the aforementioned drugger would have been about 3,700 crystals based on buying a kit.

So, not only did the #1 player lose crystals but made the battle totally worthless for anyone on blue. The final score was something like 45-6 and red was drugging until the very end.

 

Here's your drugging duo in action:

 

 

So why do it?

[Brubook 1,161]

I estimate the break even point for the aforementioned drugger would have been about 3,700 crystals based on buying a kit.

So, not only did the #1 player lose crystals but made the battle totally worthless for anyone on blue. The final score was something like 45-6 and red was drugging until the very end.

 

Here's your drugging duo in action:

 

So why do it?

BREAK EVEN POINT ... very technical term (and very correct!!). It means when revenues (crystals gain) are equal to costs (drugs value spent).

 

Making the calculation: the above mentioned drugger spent 3.700 crystals on drugs and earned 2.434 crystals final reward. That battle costed him 1.266 crystals!!

So ... he did not earn anything, he spent crystals ... and he frustrated all the opponents and probably half of his own team ... I let all of you readers draw the conclusions!!

 

Thank you creeperskelly

[Brubook 1,161]

Make it like every game! Other results are more rare!

Unfortunately for us and for the game, you are correct! Very hard to find different situation lately!

[Papaya14 481]

I think a nice little addition would be supply icons next to usernames in the player list when you press TAB. And they only appear when a player activates them. That way you can know who is drugging, and when.

Here's a visual reference (forgive the crude Photoshop)

 

[RustyNail 1,538]

 

 

This guy always has 2 or 3 drugs enabled. Not drops but using his own personal supply to buy the round and spawn camp.

One mistake that is common is that Smart cooldown nerfed drugs.

This update didn't decrease the use of drugs, on the contrary.

Before the update only true druggers existed, with all three supplies active.

After the update, everybody had one drug on, just in case... and soon after another drug was in use.

In two words, this update made us all druggers.

Don't forget it. -_-

[Chameleos 157]

you have no idea how many DPs i pop out just to whoop some people who think "I have DP and repair kit, nothing can stop me", too bad in the end they suck... No other way around than using DP yourself though.

If i met all these guys in a no drugs battle i'd come out winning even 1vs3 i suppose.. 

 

And honestly I'm tired of watching my 180 hp hornet with 39% rail prot get oneshot.

[RustyNail 1,538]

you have no idea how many DPs i pop out just to whoop some people who think "I have DP and repair kit, nothing can stop me", too bad in the end they suck... No other way around than using DP yourself though.

If i met all these guys in a no drugs battle i'd come out winning even 1vs3 i suppose.. 

 

And honestly I'm tired of watching my 180 hp hornet with 39% rail prot get oneshot.

 

Best option  IMO is playing Pro without garage supplies but with drop boxes on. But, very few pro battles that are not XP / Sandbox or Polygon CP....

You see, Pro pass is very expensive for low and middle ranks and existing top ranks pro passers are used in Sandbox XP / Polygon CP.

 

So, we have to deal with spoiled kids (and seniors) that want to play Godmode_on....

I don't understand, if people want to play "shoot 'em up" why play Tanki.... There are so many Shoot 'em up games... -_-

[fufususumumu1 240]

I hope you understand that gold boxes do not allow you to get more more gold boxes, whereas the earnings boost from supplies can be used to buy more supplies.

i think i stated that it was merely just to get the point across... but from my thinking, i would say that using supplies wont help you get more supplies, because the earlier supply stack gets depleted.

but if this continues, it will be the battle of the more condescending, and not helping to the discussion.

[fufususumumu1 240]

 

Let's remember that priority has to be given to customer satisfaction and critical mass. With these 2 factors accomplished everything will follow (I am talking about the economical aspect for Tanki). Disattending these points, the game is surely go on a down-curve till death, and we don't want that!! (at least I don't want it).

this is something i think needs to be addressed. i know people feel that with consumer satisfaction, everything can be solved in the game. i might have not spoken out earlier on, but i get an idea of how it works now. thanks to for showing me this awesome youtube channel Extra Credits, helped me see that more consumer satisfaction = producer satisfaction...

again, this example might be slightly faulted, but it is used to get the point across.

diagram below shows something called equilibrium price, the point at which producers increase the price to the point at which demand is maximal.

if producers increased the price beyond this range, consumers would be dissatisfied and there would be less buyers.

however, if they reduced the price beyond their interests, they would get more buyers BUT at the cost of less profit 

 

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2KYdtIWYlK890OujkxKb9Az8zC9HrUZmqQ-VCg9zUVGvPGnGs

 

in the same way, i feel it works in this game. so now it would be better to include the DEVELOPER'S interests too when creating a scheme to improve the game such as this one. 

i hope you will take this into consideration, @Brubook

[r_priyangshu0 270]

i think i stated that it was merely just to get the point across... but from my thinking, i would say that using supplies wont help you get more supplies, because the earlier supply stack gets depleted.

but if this continues, it will be the battle of the more condescending, and not helping to the discussion.

Even if the earlier supply stack does get depleted, it still increases more than neutral if you use them. Drugs = More crystals = More drugs, whereas

Gold Box = More crystals =/= More Gold Boxes.

[fufususumumu1 240]

Even if the earlier supply stack does get depleted, it still increases more than neutral if you use them. Drugs = More crystals = More drugs, whereas

Gold Box = More crystals =/= More Gold Boxes.

just to get the point across  <_<

if you look to earlier posts, you will see that brubook has shown how drugging can actually REDUCE the number of crystals earned, preventing you from buying more, but instead losing.

but if your gameplay strategy is smart it will turn out how you expected.

looking at both of these possibilites, we see that it cancels out and therefore more drugs =/= more crystals, and so on.

using your arguement i could say that getting goldbox = more crystals = more supplies = MORE supplies = enough supplies to drug to give you an advantage to get the gold box.

 

 

another great video

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The thing is rarely does anyone really do the math. You always lose more crystals than you gain. Otherwise, you could just buy one small stack of supplies and it would self perpetuate until you had millions of crystals.

 

Even if you buy a kit (thus getting each supply for 25 each) you still lose in the long run.

 

It's like a casino - the "house" always has the advantage.

[fufususumumu1 240]

The thing is rarely does anyone really do the math. You always lose more crystals than you gain. Otherwise, you could just buy one small stack of supplies and it would self perpetuate until you had millions of crystals.

 

Even if you buy a kit (thus getting each supply for 25 each) you still lose in the long run.

 

It's like a casino - the "house" always has the advantage.

good point. i dont think though, that this is going to change that person's mindset, as they are already decided on their opinion, and nothing you say is going to change that.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I just watched "BADKILLER1945" blow through about 50 combos of 1-2-3-4 in 15 minutes of RIO and the moron still lost for his team. It is amusing to see a poor player blow through drugs like crazy. At a cost of probably 1,000 he or she only got 170 at the end of the round.

[bravo30 136]

Solution 1= Play pro battles

No pass= just leave or play with friends

 

 

Ammmm...ymmmmm..    it is very sweet to blow people wth nuclear B)

[Chameleos 157]

Solution 1= Play pro battles

No pass= just leave or play with friends

 

 

Ammmm...ymmmmm..    it is very sweet to blow people wth nuclear B)

First, read the topic.

 

 

Second, people who use nuclears are my first target...  :ph34r:

[Brubook 1,161]

Even if the earlier supply stack does get depleted, it still increases more than neutral if you use them. Drugs = More crystals = More drugs, whereas

Gold Box = More crystals =/= More Gold Boxes.

We actually just proved you the countrary a couple of posts ago ... you spend more on drugs than what you earn in battle anyway!

[Brubook 1,161]

Solution 1= Play pro battles

No pass= just leave or play with friends

 

 

Ammmm...ymmmmm..    it is very sweet to blow people wth nuclear B)

This follows the series "The mother of geniuses is always pregnant" together with "God gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth, so that you more listen than talk"

[Brubook 1,161]

this is something i think needs to be addressed. i know people feel that with consumer satisfaction, everything can be solved in the game. i might have not spoken out earlier on, but i get an idea of how it works now. thanks to for showing me this awesome youtube channel Extra Credits, helped me see that more consumer satisfaction = producer satisfaction...

again, this example might be slightly faulted, but it is used to get the point across.

diagram below shows something called equilibrium price, the point at which producers increase the price to the point at which demand is maximal.

if producers increased the price beyond this range, consumers would be dissatisfied and there would be less buyers.

however, if they reduced the price beyond their interests, they would get more buyers BUT at the cost of less profit 

 

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2KYdtIWYlK890OujkxKb9Az8zC9HrUZmqQ-VCg9zUVGvPGnGs

 

in the same way, i feel it works in this game. so now it would be better to include the DEVELOPER'S interests too when creating a scheme to improve the game such as this one. 

i hope you will take this into consideration, @Brubook

Sure fufususumumu1

 

Correct graph, but let's analyse the out-of-graph factors that determine it.

 

Let's remember that demand depends directly on quality, efficiency and amount of product sold (that would make think that a X10 DD would be more sold out), but indirectly in the whole pleasure of gaming, i.e. satisfaction and more players base that "demand". That is the key.

In other words, the crossing point of those 2 curves is what has to be analysed, mainly the out-of-graph factors.

 

Satisfaction gives more buyers on a mass basis and more playing mass (for grown interest), hence again more buyers.

 

In this case satisfaction is somehow inversely proportional to the unit amount of the product, i.e. a X10 damage drug would destroy satisfaction, as noone would play anymore. It would be a situation in which the drugger press spacebar and destroy everything on his way and this is NOT satisfying, probably not even for the drugger himself, that face no opponent at all.

 

A more balanced situation allows fun for everyone, let everyone have a chance to participate in a battle, let everyone feel "I am fighting"!

[Brubook 1,161]

When I face a xmas tree tank (with drugs lights on), I know that it is NOT xmas but I am death, no matter how skilled I am!

 

This is flushing my satisfaction down to the toilet!

This make me feel a useless spectator of a battle!

This is surely not inviting me to buy anything, because whatever I buy, I will die anyway!

 

Someone could say "buy drugs" ... apart that I don't need to buy, but drugging back is never enough. A player coming with the triplet (or just DD and DA) cannot be faced. If you press 2 you will never kill him, if you press 3 you will blow up before stopping it. The two together cannot be used. If the drugger is a complete newbie and you manage to deal damage, he just press 1 and the party is over!!!

 

Merry Christmas

[beaku 2,656]

I can think of many features other than drugs which could have been added as extra gameplay features and help devs monetize them.

One is customization. Seriously, a Generalissimo with M4 garage has got NOTHING more to do in game except maybe esports. Options could have been given to customize their tanks visually. It could have ranged anywhere from non protective customizable paints to stickers and decals on the tanks.

Premium accounts which would have given faster scores and more crystal reward along with permanent discounts on equipment.

When MU's were introduced, I had hoped that drug power would be nerfed to balance out the game. Can you imagine a hardly/non micro upgraded M2 tank facing a drugging M4 mammoth? It's hell. Now that MU's will be boosted by 25%, I can predict that battle conditions will change a lot. This is basically along the lines of "Rich becomes Richer while Poor becomes Poorer". There are non buying occasionally playing players like me who log in once in a while to enjoy the game but the only thing we experience is rage and annoyance. This is forcing many players to buy crystals just to MU their equipment. Do you know how it feels when you shoot 3-4 times at a M2 hornet with an M1 railgun and it still shows no signs of damage? The difference is double armour and Super-sized-mega MU's. MU can be a source of strategy for players and income for devs if only drugs were removed from equation and price of MU's was increased. This would have led to Players being more strategic when choosing their MU's.

All these factors would have (and still can) affected gameplay without throwing everything off the balance scale.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

The video about balance and imbalance is interesting. Why is chess the perfect game? Because of imbalance.

 

Tanki already has that feature due to hulls, turrets, and paints. Each battle has a sense of randomness and imbalance because not everyone has the same exact tank - even two M2 Hornets with M2 Thunder might have different MU done on them.

 

Chess is interesting because each piece has limitations on its power and ability to move. Each combo in Tanki is very similar.

 

Now, suppose in chess you could use an "upgrade" every 45 seconds on any piece you choose. You could turn a bishop into a queen that not only had the queen's powers and movement but also could fly and go to any spot on the chessboard. Furthermore some players could buy more of these than others.

 

Imagine playing poker with someone who could just turn any or all cards into aces any time they wanted.

 

What would be the point?

 

Imagine playing American football with a team that could just take the football to the one yard line and automatically let someone stand in the end zone and catch it while your own team had to run the length of the entire field first.

 

Imagine the Olympics where one player only had to run 1m in the 100m dash while others had to run all 100m.

 

This is how the use drugs in Tanki creates extreme imbalance.

[RustyNail 1,538]

We actually just proved you the countrary a couple of posts ago ... you spend more on drugs than what you earn in battle anyway!

It's been months I say the same thing, but most of the druggers just can't think. All they know is they can afford all those drugs and that because of them they win. That's how far their mind goes. They don't hink if they deserve to win all the time, or if it is reasobable to be always on top and the other players on the bottom...

 

 

 

When I face a xmas tree tank (with drugs lights on), I know that it is NOT xmas but I am death, no matter how skilled I am!

 

This is flushing my satisfaction down to the toilet!

This make me feel a useless spectator of a battle!

This is surely not inviting me to buy anything, because whatever I buy, I will die anyway!

 

Someone could say "buy drugs" ... apart that I don't need to buy, but drugging back is never enough. A player coming with the triplet (or just DD and DA) cannot be faced. If you press 2 you will never kill him, if you press 3 you will blow up before stopping it. The two together cannot be used. If the drugger is a complete newbie and you manage to deal damage, he just press 1 and the party is over!!!

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

Let's not forget that whoever has bought the bilion drugs kit has bought as well the best combos and paints and has MUed the said combos. So it's not just supplies you face but all elements of power in one magical cocktail.

In fact, even when not in battle, I wouldn't want to keep contact with such people... They only think of themselves. Should an anti-friends list existed, these druggers would all be in.

[Chameleos 157]

Let's not forget that whoever has bought the bilion drugs kit has bought as well the best combos and paints and has MUed the said combos. So it's not just supplies you face but all elements of power in one magical cocktail.

In fact, even when not in battle, I wouldn't want to keep contact with such people... They only think of themselves. Should an anti-friends list existed, these druggers would all be in.

Exactly, all these 24/7 DP+Repair kit druggers have m4 damage (as a normal rail m3 can't oneshot my hornet even on DP with digital, and hammers can't 3 hit my titan... This is from a few of my last battles), so not only overgeared, but x2 power!

[creeperskelly 1,281]

They don't think if they deserve to win all the time, or if it is reasonable to be always on top and the other players on the bottom...

 

,,, they only think of themselves. Should an anti-friends list existed, these druggers would all be in.

I can think of three reasons why they do it, but, one of those reasons isn't exactly PG.

 

One reason is because of the ridiculous amounts of XP needed to rank. Drugging is the only way to cheat this process. That is what they do earn by spending more than they earn in crystals - a shortcut to ranking.

 

Did you know? It costs the equivalent of $1,700 USD to reach gismo in terms of tanks and supplies to reach 1,400,000 XP. That's what you will spend in "drugs" and "tanks" by the time you reach the top rank and have done MU on a full M3 hull and turret combo. A full blown drugger will actually spend that much money in the course of ranking.

 

Insane, isn't it? Now you understand why we likely won't ever see changes?

 

I wish there was an anti-friends list - you see a drugger, click on the name, add to list. Whenever you see said drugger again in a battle list it shows up in red instead of green. This way you know to avoid playing that battle.