Reduce power of garage supplies

[RustyNail 1,538]

Druggi Online Collection :P

(noobs in motion)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I have to say something seriously. These players are no noobs. They played ok, they drived, they targeted, they shot ok.

And they are generalissimos, for whom, I repeat, drugging may be inevitable and the only way to spend crystals.

So, the subtitle is kinda humoristic.

 

BUT

 

the fact is, they drug alot, we didn't. And that was great unbalance in battle.

(Final score was 6-2, ofcourse we lost).

But considering the difference in drugging, in a drops-only-format, the battle would be balanced and both teams would had equal possibilities of winning.

-

That's our point.

-

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I guess that brings up a good point: when you have ranked up what further point is there to playing? Nothing left to do with crystals but buy supplies with them. Seems like a rather boring way to play.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I guess that brings up a good point: when you have ranked up what further point is there to playing? Nothing left to do with crystals but buy supplies with them. Seems like a rather boring way to play.

You are not serious, right? You need well over 2 million crystals to fully upgrade one combo and one paint, and see how many combos you can or want to have and how many paints. That could take you years of saving. :P

[Legolover3 91]

One keeps playing because it's fun. Why else?

[Brubook 1,161]

Well, before having to spend only on drugs, there are many millions to spend to m4 equipment, or try new weapons. I mean that if you are not a big buyer, in a career you can m4 maybe 2 hulls and 2 turrets, not considering paints and their mueing!

[Brubook 1,161]

One keeps playing because it's fun. Why else?

Right! And I think it is no fun to play both against and with druggers ... you are a useless spectator anyway!

You watch others doing something .... is that fun? Watching someone eating a cake does it make you satiated and satisfied? (not to make any +18 example!!!)

[Brubook 1,161]

 

"STRATEGY"

 

I started some time ago (with little success) with a new playing "strategy" ... a very sad thing:

 

- I avoid battles of more than 15 min

- I do not enter a battle with a +5 flag difference

- I do not enter a battle with a score of >4 to 0 or with zero on one side

- I do not enter a battle in either team if the first 1 to 4 top scorer are twice the other

- I do not enter a battle when the bottom scorer of one team is higher than the top score of the other team

- I do not enter a battle when I see a name I recognise (drugger)

- I do not enter a battle when a team scored more than 3 flags in 5 minutes (it means there is NO battle)

 

 

Now ... this is what I MUST do in order to try (ONLY TRY) to have some fun in Tanki ... but ... is really this way a game should be? Are these the limitations for a good gameplay? Is this a FREE-TO-PLAY game?

 

Let's note that with these criteria I often stay on the window because I CAN'T PLAY at all!!!

 

Obviously there are also some problems like hacking and multing, but on this Tanki is putting his effort on, to prevent and avoid them. And these are not problem caused by Tanki.

 

Instead drugging and game unbalance is!

 

In the last pages Devs preferred not to talk. They don't want to face the problem, because it is a problem what we are talking about. Please Devs realize it ... it is a problem! Also, over 1.000 posts and 13.000 readers should make you somehow think about it!

 

 

Well, I think that this kind of strategy is just the starter to the end. I mean that I am "fighting" to keep on playing Tanki (because I love the game itself), but it is very hard and frustrating.

 

Maybe I should add a point to the list:

 

- Never play a battle from the start, or you could get into a drugger battle with yours or the other side playing and you there watching as a useless spectator!

 

And finally, if you are weird enough and want to win, always join the drugger side (you recon them reading the above)!!!

 

Today in Tanki this is the only way to win (if you are not a "big wallet")!! Drug or join drugger!

[RustyNail 1,538]

One keeps playing because it's fun. Why else?

That is - or should be - the point. one doesn't play to accomplish something but mainly because one has a good time.

 

 

I guess that brings up a good point: when you have ranked up what further point is there to playing? Nothing left to do with crystals but buy supplies with them. Seems like a rather boring way to play.

 

One can see it that way, no denial for that. But it is not what everybody should face when reach generalissimo.

First, it's right what Brubook says, there are milion of crystals worth for items one might want to posses. Especially when Devs stir the game every now and then, nerfing certain items and upgrading others, so as many items as one has, the better for any future stir.

Second, it's the e-sports. It is only logical that once someone become a master of a certain combo then one would like to compete with others of one's class, and the place to do so is A, Pro and Star Series. That's a career we 're talking about.

(of course, there is a presupposition and that is, fun still exists........)

 

So, there is not really a predefined boring end in Tanki. Well, not unless Devs decide to implement really foolish ideas... but let's not be complainers :P  or else someone may throw some more supplies to us....

[creeperskelly 1,281]

You are not serious, right? You need well over 2 million crystals to fully upgrade one combo and one paint, and see how many combos you can or want to have and how many paints. That could take you years of saving. :P

I really would like to see someone get all hull and turret combinations all MU'ed to "M4" without actually having to spend real money. It would take an insane amount of time to do that.

 

If my calculations are correct approx. 4.5 years of playing 8 hours every day. :P

[creeperskelly 1,281]

That is - or should be - the point. one doesn't play to accomplish something but mainly because one has a good time.

 

Drugging spoils the fun for me. I haven't played in days now because it's all I see. 90%+ of the battles without extremely lopsided scores. Trying to find a battle to enter that looks balanced takes a lot of patience.

[Papaya14 481]

If you can't beat them -- join them. :rolleyes:

I don't know if people couldn't tell by the "rolling eyes" smiley face. That this was sarcasm. It doesn't project well over the Internet, I guess.

 

Yet I don't know why people will think anything will be done to the supplies, or people who use them. Hazel has already shown that he will cater gladly to the supply users. So there is no point in trying to change his belief that supplies = good. At this point it is pretty much useless to debate that, those who have the crystals have the advantage.

But do you think our only solace is to come together on this forum thread and grumble about them darned drug users, like bitter old men? Absolutely not...but can you all tell me, in the past 60 pages here, that we've been arguing back and forth about the exact same things, how much progress we have actually made toward getting some counter-play (besides smart cooldowns) into the game? Just one? No wonder Hazel is laughing at us.

[Baby_Sam 614]

I really would like to see someone get all hull and turret combinations all MU'ed to "M4" without actually having to spend real money. It would take an insane amount of time to do that.

 

If my calculations are correct approx. 4.5 years of playing 8 hours every day. :P

Actually, about 3.5 years. :P

 

However, nobody likes all the turrets, hulls, and gizmo paints, so 2 or 3 years of playing 3-4 hours a day should be enough. :)

 

Edit: By the way, it costs about 20,000,000 crystals. If you buy crystals, it is $300 per 1 million crystals. You are talking thousands of dollars to buy crystals. Nobody really does that. This is not like you buy crystals to get an M1 or even M3 piece of equipment. Even if you use sales, it is still a couple of thousands of dollars.

 

You can probably buy a real tank in Iraq or Syria for that kind of money.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

Actually you get a bonus for each purchase - I found it to be $699 per M3 combo fully upgraded. Still way too much money to spend on a game. Even $69 is too much for a single tank. :o

[Baby_Sam 614]

Actually you get a bonus for each purchase - I found it to be $699 per M3 combo fully upgraded. Still way too much money to spend on a game. Even $69 is too much for a single tank. :o

I updated my post above. It is about what you said if you include the price of buying the tank.

[Brubook 1,161]

I don't know if people couldn't tell by the "rolling eyes" smiley face. That this was sarcasm. It doesn't project well over the Internet, I guess.

 

Yet I don't know why people will think anything will be done to the supplies, or people who use them. Hazel has already shown that he will cater gladly to the supply users. So there is no point in trying to change his belief that supplies = good. At this point it is pretty much useless to debate that, those who have the crystals have the advantage.

But do you think our only solace is to come together on this forum thread and grumble about them darned drug users, like bitter old men? Absolutely not...but can you all tell me, in the past 60 pages here, that we've been arguing back and forth about the exact same things, how much progress we have actually made toward getting some counter-play (besides smart cooldowns) into the game? Just one? No wonder Hazel is laughing at us.

I think something happened and is happening.

With players graph on home page, I think there is not a lot to laugh about. Numbers are half compared with some time ago and the trend is constantly downwards.

Maybe it is not caused by our discussion, maybe to some extend ... but the point is clear! Frustration and unsatisfaction is taking the place of fun!

As this happens, even the crystal buying (and Tanki income) will be reduced.

And Devs keep on being sarcastic and ignoring the problem, and denying that the problem exist ... we will soon see the results of behaviours and actions (or non actions).

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I noticed as well. They claim about 5 million players - but the trend since October when the graphs consistently showed 120,000 or more every day online seems slowly downward.

[Brubook 1,161]

I noticed as well. They claim about 5 million players - but the trend since October when the graphs consistently showed 120,000 or more every day online seems slowly downward.

I read from "Tanki history" section here that they claim 15.000.000 players. The graphs shown, as you said, abt. 120.000-130.000 players on day peak, with 140.000-150.000 day peaks on weekends!!!

The downwards trend is not soo slow!!

[Brubook 1,161]

This happened to me some minutes ago in a noise 30min battle. I didn't say a word to anyone (apart the one you see) ... and see what that uneducate player said to me! Of course the one who was not drugging was me (but not only).

Anyway he wanted me to be voted because I didn't drug!

 

Apart that that players should be BANNED (see Rules), can you see how distorted minds this game is creating?

 

Tanki, why don't you make compulsory to drug? So these kind of players will be happy. These ones are the buyers, your gold river ... you should follow their "suggestions"!!!

 

 

[creeperskelly 1,281]

I read from "Tanki history" section here that they claim 15.000.000 players. The graphs shown, as you said, abt. 120.000-130.000 players on day peak, with 140.000-150.000 day peaks on weekends!!!

The downwards trend is not soo slow!!

I was going by the stats quoted by AlternativaPlatform (actually they call it "monthly audience" which means if a person logs in every day that person gets counted as 30 people). :D

[Brubook 1,161]

I was going by the stats quoted by AlternativaPlatform (actually they call it "monthly audience" which means if a person logs in every day that person gets counted as 30 people). :D

uhm ... funny! So you mean that the 5m you said are "montly audience"? Just to know! (it doesn't sound very correct tho)

 

But where I read the 15 million number, they specify that there are 15m active players (or I would say active accounts). I am preparing a little balance estimation, and that is the number I will use (as they specify that they talk about active players). Of course I have no idea if it is true or not!

[CN_Alpha 19]

Hi I also always beaten by players who drug, and it make game sucks, but it is essential.

i have a Solution for this (i don't know whether any one propose this before)

 

They should add an dark side for drugs, like in real world drugs,

here are some suggestions;

1. Players will reduce some HP when they use Double Damage (like 5 % of HP)

2. Players will reduce score or reduce no. of kills when they use Repair Kit (by 10 score or 1 kill)

3. Players will lost some score  for using Double Armor

4. Speed Booster is not a pain so be it like that.

5. Mines already have dark effect (mines disappear when die)

[Brubook 1,161]

Hi I also always beaten by players who drug, and it make game sucks, but it is essential.

i have a Solution for this (i don't know whether any one propose this before)

 

They should add an dark side for drugs, like in real world drugs,

here are some suggestions;

1. Players will reduce some HP when they use Double Damage (like 5 % of HP)

2. Players will reduce score or reduce no. of kills when they use Repair Kit (by 10 score or 1 kill)

3. Players will lost some score  for using Double Armor

4. Speed Booster is not a pain so be it like that.

5. Mines already have dark effect (mines disappear when die)

Thank you for comment

 

RustyNail made up a "side effect" list for every drug used and, together with drug nerfing, it could be a good idea. The criteria are listed some pages earlier, but soon we will make a "sum-up" of the whole discussion, with players ideas and suggestions.

Anyway it is a good idea. It has to be analysed and studied in details, but it is something very applicable to the game, I think!

 

Keep following the discussion! :)

[racer22_online 206]

Hey! How is it going down here?

 

Oh, by the way we heard you want drugs to be changed so we adding Daily Missions so you can have more drugs!

 

Have fun! :D

 

Hazel - you must be joking.

However, at least you bother to come and chat with us from time to time.

 

Please can you try and get Tanki to take our problem seriously?  (I know it's not been easy to explain this - so many people just see us as 'anti-drug' - which is not entirely true.)

 

As you know Tanki tried an 'unlimited drugs' day and it did not work well for the following reasons:

Nearly all battles on that day were 'wipe-outs'.  (Ignore the fact that it was popular for 1 day).

The stronger teams got stronger and the weaker teams got weaker 'relatively'.  I.e. the stronger teams found it easy to take over the enemy base and not let anyone out.

Unlimited drugs are not the answer - it ruins the careful balance that the Devs have put into the tanks.

There was a much reduced element of strategy on that day - it was mostly mindless kill or be killed.

Many of us can afford unlimited drugs - but this is NOT the kind of game most of us want.

 

To sum up what's being asked for.

1.         'Air dropped' supplies are not a problem - please leave as is.

2.         However, it is noted that too many 'garage drugs' used per hour represents 'abuse' by a relatively small number of tankers and this ruins the game as an 'interesting sport'.

3.         We cannot use Pro Mode because the pricing has meant very few battles are available.

            The 500 crystal Pro mode offer helped for a short while and I don't mind if you vary the price of Pro Mode at each rank to  keep it at no more than 50% of battles.

            (The odd time I did get to use Pro mode battles without drugs I had some good games - I would like to have access to more like this.)

            Strangely I do like to use the odd mine - mostly in self defence but occasionally 'dropped from above'.

4.         Because we generally believe that Tanki will not give us the OPTION in standard mode to remove garage drugs - I would recommend to reduce the amount of garage drug use:

            Garage drug use can be reduced by simply increasing the smart cooldown times.

            A simple way to do this in a dynamic way: you may find that increasing the smart cooldown time only for the leading team would help get closer balanced games - I.e. the further ahead the leading team gets the longer the cooldown times.  At present a leading team will continue to use excessive garage drugs and this usually causes the weaker team to quit.

            The most important garage drugs to control are the health packs.  These are expensive drugs and should be limited to the equivalent of no more than 3 per hour (some players only make 150 crystals per hour on the battle field.)

            Health packs also cause the most frustration as 'un-sporting' behaviour - a bit like making the goal twice as large in a football game or the net in Tennis half as high = completely ruins the balance.

5.         To help Tanki reduce the pressure from 'drug earnings' - we have suggested selling the advertising space on the billboards (imagine what Coke Cole would pay for such a global audience!)

            We could buy all sorts of items from Tanki, T-shirts, coffee mugs, parts of our tanks could have extra customisations - i.e. all cosmetic things that do not give us a performance advantage.

6.         Why not allow us to have a simple vote and ask tankers if they like any of the above ideas.  (Tanki has lots of other votes but never on this, what are you afraid of?  Surely you want to please your user population?)

 

Please note that in the recent competition Tanki did not allow garage drugs - I presume you did this in the interest of better sport?  So why can't the rest of us have this in daily battles?

 

I believe the vast majority of Tankers know the difference between the battles they enjoy the most and those ruined battles caused by too much drug use which have limited entertainment value.  The above is all aimed at getting more of the best kind of battle which in my mind are the best entertainment to be found on the Internet.  The strength of feeling on this forum means Tanki must do something soonest.

 

By the way I'm now concluding that on all my accounts above WO1: skill alone cannot defeat the over use of garage drugs - unless you're content to camp in a good position as a sniper with an izzy behind you.

 

It has not been good news that Tanki have appeared unwilling to discuss this subject with us.

 

 

PS: just noticed the ideas for drugs 1,2,3 needing to have some sort of negative consequence from using them which I quite like. If using a health pack meant you lost a life could be interesting, or better still if each garage drug 1,2,3 meant you lost some points this might make some think twice about over use.

I also forgot the point about showing the amount of garage drugs used on the scoreboard so we know who the abuses are! :0)

[Papaya14 481]

Although your points are fair, do not bother...I think that Hazel is done with this topic. Too many suggestions about further affecting the power of supplies, I think. Apparently smart cooldowns were enough to him. Also, this

 

 

5.         To help Tanki reduce the pressure from 'drug earnings' - we have suggested selling the advertising space on the billboards (imagine what Coke Cole would pay for such a global audience!)

Has been suggested an uncountable number of times since the beginning of the game, yet nothing about it has happened yet. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a few advertisements while the battle is loading, as long as they aren't too intrusive (like click Play to continue). Still, you think that advertising would bring in more income than a legion of drug-addicted thick-walleted players?

 

Cheaper PRO passes would be fair though. There's very little (if any) logic behind its current cost. And I think that could offset some of the rage a bit.

 

 

It has not been good news that Tanki have appeared unwilling to discuss this subject with us.

Not unwilling, just tired. You have no idea how many times this has been discussed in Russian forum. Why, because Russians feel the same way as English community do. But it seems developers are tired of hearing complaints about the same thing over and over again about things that won't be changed. Which to me is very sad.

[creeperskelly 1,281]

If they made the tanks cheaper to buy it would offset changes that might reduce income from drugging. $700 for an item in an online game is insane.