category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[MentallyDeranged 740]

they know it well that isida + viking is most powerful at the time,thats why they zoom on them. viking and isida are powerful

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

and thunder is...

..untested by me, as I am no thunder user. If I test it, I could not compare it well to the things you are used to.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but those are M3's  I only care about m4's  However, thanks for testing and posting detailed results!  I also got an opportunity to test out freeze, shaft hornet, wasp, viking, and hunter.

True, but I thought testing M3s is most usefull as I had only 2h testing time.

The game was in the past balanced in M4 - and not in M3. But with the new update exactly this issue should be solved (was their intention, to balance out the power of M3s as they now all unlock at the same rank). So I guess you can translate a lot of "what competes with what" to the M4s; while the handling is a different story of course.

For me it's positive that the wasp/hornet/rail has less difference now from M3 to M4. It was always a pain to change from non-MU-XP/BP to a normal battle with MUs..

[Idubbbz 199]

As a guy with almost all M3s, (dont have shaft, mammy, hunter) I thought Ill tell you guys how I say the changes to every weapon.

​​TURRETS

Firebird: Waaay too strong, I dont know what the devs were thinking about this.

​Freeze: The weapon itself still is very stable, even does more damage which is a good thing.. But the freezing effect is just too low. It takes forever to disable the burning effect at teammates.

​Isida: Still has good damage, but the self healing is just simply too low.  When you get shot once/twice from any mid range weapon before you start shooting him, youre dead. Healing effect on teammates takes too long now aswell.

 

Hammer: Damage diffrence isnt really noticable, but the impact force is just completely gone.

​Twins: Geez, they got nerves. Another weapon where I cant understand their decision, too OP.

Ricochet: Still OP, and cant complain about the diffrences.

​Smoky: Damage from this weapon got increased which obviously is a good thing, however the critical shots do less damage. But I have to say I can understand this decision of the devs, I was really annoyed being killed with 1 smoky shot on a almost full hp viking. (Meaning criticals are too strong and compensated the nerf with normal damage increase.)

​Vulcan: Damage increase is noticable but the thing is, I really doubt that this is worth it. Impact force is so small that enemy tanks are barely affected by it and they can go around the corner and avoid the damage.

Thunder: No real noticable diffrence for me.

 

Railgun: You just have to get used to it, actually not bad. Bad thing is the chances of 1 shotting enemy tanks is farly lower.

 

Shaft: I dont use this.

 

HULLS
 

​​Wasp: Ugh, I hate this. Everything in connection with speed just got decreased, and another thing. Wasps weight is now even LOWER so you can get flipped even easier then now.

 

Hornet: Drifts too much, but why would you make it have as much hp as wasp?

 

Hunter: Ive tried this out on the test server and I must admit, its way better then it is now. I wonder why... Oh yea they switched roles with viking, which makes no sense to me....
​Viking: Too drifty, and same thing as I wrote on Hunter.

 

Dictator: Best Medium hull in my opinion now, it really didnt get too much of a nerf. Only problem is that ithas as much hp as viking and hunter and luck may decide if your weapon does more damage then the enemies... (When same wep is used at both side)

​Titan: Max health has been decreased. Cant complain about that.

​Mammoth: There really is no point of using titan now. Mammoth is just better in my opinon. It  has faster accerelatio, bigger weight, and the speed diffrence of the 2 fat ones has been decreased from 1 to 0,5.

​Some good combos: Twins-mammy, Freeze-Hunter, Fire-hornet/viking, And of course the combos the were popular before the update.
​
 

[wolverine848 13,097]

As a guy with almost all M3s, (dont have shaft, mammy, hunter) I thought Ill tell you guys how I say the changes to every weapon.

 

​​TURRETS

 

​Smoky: Damage from this weapon got increased which obviously is a good thing, however the critical shots do less damage. But I have to say I can understand this decision of the devs, I was really annoyed being killed with 1 smoky shot on a almost full hp viking. (Meaning criticals are too strong and compensated the nerf with normal damage increase.)

 

 

 

 

What hull were you getting one-shot killed by smoky?

An M4 smoky with DD can do max 200 dmg (100x2) on a critical. So it can kill an (unprotected) M4 Wasp or M3 Hornet one shot. Rail, Shaft and Thunder can also do this. And since that is a less than 1-in-5 chance i don't see that as being OP at all. 

[delnina2 1,570]

My M4 viking just flush down the toilet if it keep these new stats.

 

Hopefully, Dictator wouldn't be that way. =/

My new shaft is... Well... Is not -.- 

[Nandha_Kumar 7]

If I buy alterations for freeze would it work in pro battles where MU is off ? I already have the alterations for fire and it looks like it doesn't work in pro battles. I am not sure though but it feels that way.

 

Can someone help with me understand it better ?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

If I buy alterations for freeze would it work in pro battles where MU is off ? I already have the alterations for fire and it looks like it doesn't work in pro battles. I am not sure though but it feels that way.

 

Can someone help with me understand it better ?

as I don't know it but want to know it too, I offer you to try it out.

I've an M3 Viking so we could have a reasonable meassure on time in various scenarios.

 

Just send me a friendrequest and we can check that.

[Idubbbz 199]

What hull were you getting one-shot killed by smoky?

An M4 smoky with DD can do max 200 dmg (100x2) on a critical. So it can kill an (unprotected) M4 Wasp or M3 Hornet one shot. Rail, Shaft and Thunder can also do this. And since that is a less than 1-in-5 chance i don't see that as being OP at all. 

Ehm, I said almost full hp viking.

​And obviously light hulls aswell

[wolverine848 13,097]

Ehm, I said almost full hp viking.

​And obviously light hulls aswell

At same M-level your Viking must have been more damaged than you remember. Else the smoky could not have placed a one-shot kill.

 

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree that Smoky criticals are OP.

[wolverine848 13,097]

wolverine848

 

Come play in some RU2 battles and see what the M4 smoky will do. It slaughters pretty much everything.

I think it's a great turret. I'm saving for Guardian kit at moment - (disappointed with proposed nerf on critical).

 

What I could not figure out was how Evolution was one-shotted by a smoky. The stats don't support that happening unless...

- he was damaged much more than "almost full hp viking" or...

- he was hit by another weapon at same time or...

- he also drove over a mine, or...

- the M-level is not the same (and that would be fair comparison)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Maybe he was hit by two smokies in the same place. at the same time.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I think he ment that he drives a light hull with some pre-damage (but not massive), and then a sudden 1hit of a smoky deals 100dmg and finishes him off.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I think he ment that he drives a light hull with some pre-damage (but not massive), and then a sudden 1hit of a smoky deals 100dmg and finishes him off.

Could be the case.

IMO does not make smoky OP as Thunder can do that with every shot.

 

Did you ever get an answer on how smoky critical works at long range? Is there damage fall-off over distance?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I got no answers at all.

But the wiki guys are pretty busy at the moment - and they are volunteers. So we cant blame them for it.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Could be the case.

IMO does not make smoky OP as Thunder can do that with every shot.

 

Did you ever get an answer on how smoky critical works at long range? Is there damage fall-off over distance?

I watched for this on the playtest server. I can say that the crits do full 530 damage, even at the 10% over-maximum range. I was hitting for something like 23pt from bridge to bridge on Brest, then got a crit for 530.

[With_N_Ease_I 0]

guys can it be like a kit one day has 45% off and the next day it may increase?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Good question.  I don't think so.  I think kits stay the same price.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Wolverine848

 

I also have M4 thunder but I don't use it much because of splatter damage. Last time they "balanced" they nerfed the heck out of Thunder but WAY increased splatter damage. So now what does everyone do? Run up in your face where you will damage yourself as much as them. I wish they would fix that in the new "balance."

Back away.  It's easy enough, and super annoying ;)

 

Play more in larger maps and you will feel it is pretty balanced.  There is no need for a thunder buff, rather a twins and vulcan nerf.

Edited October 14, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I also have M4 thunder but I don't use it much because of splatter damage. Last time they "balanced" they nerfed the heck out of Thunder but WAY increased splatter damage. So now what does everyone do? Run up in your face where you will damage yourself as much as them. I wish they would fix that in the new "balance."

Thats actually the only thing that a wasp pilot can do, while facing thunders today on closer range. Beeing sure to face death it gives a little hope to harm you too ;)

Would you trade in spash damage completely (splash = 0), if you could not be hurt anymore by your own shots?

Edited October 14, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[wolverine848 13,097]

I would probably rather get rid of the splatter. Yes it occasionally gets you an extra kill but I would rather do without it. Yes, you can backup but sometimes I play a position where there is not much room to.

Yeah, I played Thunder up to M1. Then it lost it's lusty quickly (partly due to high unlock rank).

I found it frustrating with the splash damage hurting myself - very hard to battle firebird/isida/freeze as they always attack up close.

 

I switched to Smoky at M2 and liked it. Not sure how I feel about the nerfing of critical in return for a small increase in max dmg.

 

But getting rid of splash dmg entirely for Thunder would change the nature of the weapon entirely. Lose it's character. Maybe they should remove the self-dmg. I mean u don't damage your allies - so why damage to yourself?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

 

Yeah, I played Thunder up to M1. Then it lost it's lusty quickly (partly due to high unlock rank).

I found it frustrating with the splash damage hurting myself - very hard to battle firebird/isida/freeze as they always attack up close.

 

I switched to Smoky at M2 and liked it. Not sure how I feel about the nerfing of critical in return for a small increase in max dmg.

 

But getting rid of splash dmg entirely for Thunder would change the nature of the weapon entirely. Lose it's character. Maybe they should remove the self-dmg. I mean u don't damage your allies - so why damage to yourself?

You're right about the fact that taking away the splash completely changes the character, but you should play with melee guns more.  YOu have no idea how frustrating it is i'm trying to get close to thunders and they keep backing away, doing tremendous damage to me while i can't get a touch on them.  MElee guns should be OP up close-you have the whole rest of the battlefield to kill them. Self-damage is the only weakness of thunder, otherwise it would be completely OP.

Edited October 14, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I see it like I_already_won.. Thunder is one of the most versatile guns all over the battlefield.. and I see the self-.hurting as a kind of balance to thunder, to prevent it from beeing overpowered.

Therefore I asked if you would treat it away and your answer let me feel that I_already_won and myself are right on the balance aspect.

 

Idea -> Alternation ;)

I think the "giving up of splash damage - and therefore not hurting yourself any more" could be a quite interresting Alternation for a lot of Thunder players. On larger maps they can decide to stay with splash, and collect all those extra score and damage they do all over the match, which they probably dont even realise that intense. Especially the effect on small hulls is great or if they become great at shooting walls to hurt the tanks hiding close up.

On the other hand such an alternation would open them up the possibility to handle themselfes better on midsized maps with less free areas to control. Such an alternation would really make sense IMHO.

Edited October 14, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I see it like I_already_won.. Thunder is one of the most versatile guns all over the battlefield.. and I see the self-.hurting as a kind of balance to thunder, to prevent it from beeing overpowered.

Therefore I asked if you would treat it away and your answer let me feel that I_already_won and myself are right on the balance aspect.

 

Idea -> Alternation ;)

I think the "giving up of splash damage - and therefore not hurting yourself any more" could be a quite interresting Alternation for a lot of Thunder players. On larger maps they can decide to stay with splash, and collect all those extra score and damage they do all over the match, which they probably dont even realise that intense. Especially the effect on small hulls is great or if they become great at shooting walls to hurt the tanks hiding close up.

On the other hand such an alternation would open them up the possibility to handle themselfes better on midsized maps with less free areas to control. Such an alternation would really make sense IMHO.

I agree, except that the alteration for thunder is already for short-range combat.  However, that does seem to be a problem for thunders ;)

[wolverine848 13,097]

You're right about the fact that taking away the splash completely changes the character, but you should play with melee guns more.  YOu have no idea how frustrating it is i'm trying to get close to thunders and they keep backing away, doing tremendous damage to me while i can't get a touch on them.  MElee guns should be OP up close-you have the whole rest of the battlefield to kill them. Self-damage is the only weakness of thunder, otherwise it would be completely OP.

Haven't looked recently but I may have more than 50% of my experience from Isida.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Lol, i see. with hornet?  Being one-shotted by a thunder m3 with DD on is not pleasant.

 

But thunder is getting buffed anyway by the update, especially m3.