category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

150% railgun protection!! Whenever a Railgun shoots me I gain health! :D :D

hahaha :D

 

ehm, no: the module contains max 75% protection in total; that are spread out over multiple turrets; but you can assign a max of 25% for a turret inside that module ;)

 

sorry for the bad news: you still die :)

Edited November 21, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

sorry for the bad news: you still die :)

Why a smiley? :wacko:

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Because I use the Rail B)

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Firebird/wasp wins against smoky/viking before i can get a third shot. Firebird is too strong. Damage needs to be brought down.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Epic_Space_Mango18

[Maf 32,300]

Firebird wins even with the weakest tank before i can get a third shot. Firebird is too strong. Damage needs to be brought down.

Topic merged

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Firebird/wasp wins against smoky/viking before i can get a third shot. Firebird is too strong. Damage needs to be brought down.

It's the duty of the midrange turret to damage the wasp seriously (2 shots at least) before it is close up, if the midranger wanna save his life.

 

If that fails, then the firebird deserves the kill, as he mastered the task of getting close up with full health, while having _not_chance_at_all_ to fight back over distance.

 

That's why closerangers are so strong.

 

 

ps: if dealing damage over distance does not work because the map is too small or the wasp to fast or both, you cant truy

- either a bigger hull + a good spotting position (increase survival time)

- or a light hull + drive backwards + shot + run tactics (keep you out of range)

 

Sometimes (not always) it's possible to chease a firebird around a house and shot their corners, that make them drive either into the house + get stuck / or the other corner that enlarges their circle around the house. In both cases they miss you for about half a second.. while you are exposed max. 1 second -> halfes their damage. Afterburn still might get you.

But Viking is too slow for that anyways.. and on Nitro it drifts that much that you will have a hard time to race a (undrugged) wasp around the house.

Edited November 22, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Spit_Fyre 334]

I too feel there should be no Modules that offer 50% Smoky. But that's probably because Smoky is my main weapon.  ;)

 

But all kidding aside...

 

It is a numbers game if you like to maximize your resources. Working out "shots to kill" your preferred hulls determines how much you should MU a module. Work out how much more % protection will allow you to survive another shot will help you decide to MU or not.

 

It was easier when you could upgrade specific protections within a module as you were not wasting crystals on an upgrade that could not possibly benefit you.

 

Now it's an ROI analysis. it's not for everyone - some people just like plug-and-play style. Each has it's own merits.

 

Oh wait - you're not worried about you upgrading modules?

But it's still applicable - for your enemies. They will do the above to survive longer vs you.

Smoky is my main weapon too (though I like rail better). I'd like to think that does not effect the validity of my concern which is more about the flat weightages given to all turrets across all modules with the same pricing. Because the % is applied to base damage, the accumulation of damage over time becomes a significant factor affecting efficiency. An example:

 

Imagine M3's. A heavy hull (3377HP) with 35% protection against all turrets. Each of the existing turrets take turns killing the hull. The smoky needs approximate 12 shots and 17 seconds or more. Twins does it in about 10. Vulcan takes probably 12 secs. Thunder takes 7 shots and 15 secs. Railgun 6 shots and 17 secs. Ricochet needs around 18 seconds and so on. This is assuming average damage dealt and that all shots land.

 

The baseline is that some protections are undervalued and some too good for their current value.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

The baseline is that some protections are undervalued and some too good for their current value.

I concur.  I wish we could MU specific ones within the module. But then we'd be spending less crystals...

 

Also - can't believe Ricco takes the longest. Always seems to own me in one-on-one battles.

Maybe I'm meeting higher MUs (I'm often too lazy to hit "v" or whatever that key is).

Edited November 22, 2016 by wolverine848

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Rico's Energy is consumed completely by 12 shots or something (or 13, .. I cant remember).

Then you fire only 1 bullet per second or so..

So if you have the capacity to absorb a certain amount of rico bullets, the TTK raises steeply.

 

It's the same principle like if a Hammer can not kill you in 3 shots, but takes 4.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

These numbers are going to look more skewed when drugs come into the picture.

 

Why I mentioned I don't like getting into numbers - because we get so lost in details that we focus on certain aspects alone while ignoring others. Like for example you force a smoky opponent to hit you 12 times when you have 35% protection. How tight is the margin of error? How long will it go on? Do the same experiment vs thunder. Assuming all players are decently skilled, who do you think will survive to the end?

Edited November 22, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[Spit_Fyre 334]

I concur.  I wish we could MU specific ones within the module. But then we'd be spending less crystals...

 

Also - can't believe Ricco takes the longest. Always seems to own me in one-on-one battles.

Maybe I'm meeting higher MUs (I'm often too lazy to hit "v" or whatever that key is).

Yeah, Ricochet owns because of the strong knockback. Beyond that 1 clip though, the rico gets helpless pretty fast when they're in the open.

 

So it's not just turrets that are OP or UP, but modules too...

Edited November 22, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[Tani_S 736]

How would you guys calculate the damage per second (DPS) measure, especially of turrets that have an energy amount (i.e. Isida, Fire etc...). Would you include their reload time also?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

How would you guys calculate the damage per second (DPS) measure, especially of turrets that have an energy amount (i.e. Isida, Fire etc...). Would you include their reload time also?

Well for DPS I would disregard reload and energy consumption completely, and take the flat damage values. But for damage-per-minute (DPM) I would add up a full charge, then count the full reload, then the full charge, etc.

[Tani_S 736]

Okay, thank you  :)  Yes, I think this is the most appropriate way.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

same as I_already_won.

 

Instead of DPS I would more likely think of time-to-kill.

 

For those closerangers you have to consider that DPM makes only limited sense.. they do not life that long :)

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

same as I_already_won.

 

Instead of DPS I would more likely think of time-to-kill.

 

For those closerangers you have to consider that DPM makes only limited sense.. they do not life that long :)

Exactly. Also, some turrets on light hulls do not land every shot. For example,

 

twins-hornet will not land every twin ball on you

freeze-wasp- the freeze cone will sway from side to side as the wasp is knocked around, meaning it does much less damage than a freeze-viking.

[XLG1 67]

This link here https://postimg.org/image/eewf068k7/ shows that smoky needs a buff.Played for nearly the same time in the same maps and barely made the same XP. I have played with Twins for about the same time as i have played with my newly purchased Smoky M2 on Halloween discount, after the rebalance. Still haven't made the same amount of XP, because at mid range, which smoky is a mid - long range gun, takes almost 7 or 8 lengthy shots to kill a medium hull. Smoky M2 has become weak, reload nerfed like thunder only slightly quicker, critical damage like a regular shot so there is no point of it and the same critical chance for all versions, (M1, M2, M3) and so on makes no uniqueness to it anymore. they should decrease the damage and decrease reload time and increase the critical damage. even 2 critical hits do nothing when before, 1 was enough to finish a mammoth.

Bring back the old Smoky!!!

[Maf 32,300]

smoky needs a buff.

Topic merged

[HBR100 0]

Why can't a hornet with shaft no more "shoots itself back to its tracks" when it's fall on his side? A shaft must have enough recoil enery to do so.

Edited November 25, 2016 by HBR100

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Why can't a hornet with shaft no more "shoots itself back to its tracks" when it's fall on his side? A shaft must have enough recoil enery to do so.

I agree, even if only at m3. Light tanks flip too easily.

Edited November 25, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Spit_Fyre 334]

How do I post a table here?

[sm0ky 92]

 

 

Why are you shooting at such a long distance? No wonder you are having problems with the turret.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

How do I post a table here?

best done if you take a screenshot.

 

You can do tables with BB codes; google for "BB code table generator" or simmilar stuff.. but it is pretty nasty.

screenshots work faster

Edited November 25, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[Spit_Fyre 334]

best done if you take a screenshot.

 

You can do tables with BB codes; google for "BB code table generator" or simmilar stuff.. but it is pretty nasty.

screenshots work faster

Ikr, the tags give me a headache and what I want to post is too wide for a screenshot. I'll try nonetheless.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

if you made the table in Excel, just mark the cells, press CTRL+C, move over to paint and press CTLR+V

I think this works for wide tables too.

 

Or.. you just slim down the font size :p

 

Or you consider, that if you post tooooooo many detils, noone will read into it :p