category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

UPDATE: In subsequent tests I have proved myself wrong (again :P). The damage drop-off for fire and freeze IS linear, down to a MINIMUM damage of 2 (for some reason :lol: ). What I wasn't taking into account was the different range of max damage for my freeze and an m4 freeze (this is why it's not healthy to memorize m4 stats :P).

 

Now I have all the info needed for my table. :)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Did you use a firebird?

Then the "2" comes maybe from "lowest damage dealt direct" + "lowest damage dealt by afterburn". (1+1=2)

[Tani_S 736]

I'm currently working on a spreadsheet that shows TTK for all turrets at various ranges against various hull classes. Taking into account protections would clutter up the graph too much, so the only protection value shown would be 50% protection, which would be represented in the "DA" tables or the "heavy hull" tables for light hulls, as heavy hulls have exactly twice the hp of light hulls. Also testing fire/freeze damage loss/distance.  Do you guys want to create a separate topic for all these graphs?

That sounds great! I'm curious how to visualize all of this  :P

 

UPDATE: In subsequent tests I have proved myself wrong (again :P). The damage drop-off for fire and freeze IS linear, down to a MINIMUM damage of 2 (for some reason :lol: ). What I wasn't taking into account was the different range of max damage for my freeze and an m4 freeze (this is why it's not healthy to memorize m4 stats :P).

 

Now I have all the info needed for my table. :)

Nvm, thank you for confirming it!  ;)

 

I can work on the table for the protection effects this evening. By the way, onto Railgun's TTK, which I previously stated we have to add another 1.1 sec because of the delay for the first shot (since it is not part of the first reload). This means Railgun has an average TTK of 9.81 sec. (though it is possible, but pretty improbable, to shoot a medium hull with 2 shots of max. damage). If we wouldn't consider the charge here, then we would also have to reduce the TTK of Vulcan and of the various Shaft turret modes. I considered as a definition for how long does it take to kill a tank that suddenly appears (so you have no preparation but only a fully loaded gun).

Edited November 28, 2016 by Tani_S

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Did you use a firebird?

Then the "2" comes maybe from "lowest damage dealt direct" + "lowest damage dealt by afterburn". (1+1=2)

Nope- I used freeze.  Firebird burn values are applied once every four counters so I would catch the aberration.

Edited November 28, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I considered as a definition for how long does it take to kill a tank that suddenly appears (so you have no preparation but only a fully loaded gun).

With Shaft I am considering them fully reloaded but not in sniping mode. Is that the most accurate way to calculate Shaft's TTK?- as high-ranked Shafts don't wave their laser around but do more Quickscoping.

 

Also, the rate of damage drop-off being linear results in an exponential increase in TTK that will not fit in the graph. I will put it in the notes. Ex. At minimum range freeze M4 takes 375 seconds to bring down a medium hull. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[wolverine848 13,097]

With Shaft I am considering them fully reloaded but not in sniping mode. Is that the most accurate way to calculate Shaft's TTK?- as high-ranked Shafts don't wave their laser around but do more Quickscoping.

 

Also, the rate of damage drop-off being linear results in an exponential increase in TTK that will not fit in the graph. I will put it in the notes. Ex. At minimum range freeze M4 takes 375 seconds to bring down a medium hull. 

For shaft it's hard to say.

A lot of them do have the laser on all times - but - pointed at an object really close to them. A quick shift and they can target at full charge.

Most instances the laser only visible for a fraction of a second.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

For shaft it's hard to say.

A lot of them do have the laser on all times - but - pointed at an object really close to them. A quick shift and they can target at full charge.

Most instances the laser only visible for a fraction of a second.

I might include that, however that means the Shaft w/o alteration will have the lowest TTK against light hulls, the Shaft w/alteration will have the lowest TTK against mediums, which gives a false impression of an OP SHaft turret.

[Tani_S 736]

With Shaft I am considering them fully reloaded but not in sniping mode. Is that the most accurate way to calculate Shaft's TTK?- as high-ranked Shafts don't wave their laser around but do more Quickscoping.

It's a bit difficult to talk about this without misunderstandings  :P

With "fully loaded" I meant "fully reloaded". Reload is different to charge. For the TTK included the charge and reload it takes to kill a tank, but I don't take the reload for the first shot into it. So in case of shaft needing 2 sniper shots, I take the initial 3 sec. charge (to leverage max. damage, which I always take for Sniper mode) + the reload for 2nd shot + charge for 2nd shot.

A lot of advice texts say that it doesn't make sense to stay a long time fully charged (in scope mode), so I will follow those.

 

For Shaft combined (1 snipe shot + arcade) it would be 1 x snipe charge + 0.5 sec. delay to leave snipe mode + reload of arcade.

 

For Shaft arcade the only relevant time parameter is the time from shot to shot.

 

The initial shot of rail needs 1.1 sec (as some kind of charge).  

Edited November 28, 2016 by Tani_S

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Wow, a lot still happening here. I think it's better these discussions move to a separate topic. Guys, get PMing. This is getting too superfluous.

 

Topic owner decides ofcourse.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

It's a bit difficult to talk about this without misunderstandings  :P

With "fully loaded" I meant "fully reloaded". Reload is different to charge. For the TTK included the charge and reload it takes to kill a tank, but I don't take the reload for the first shot into it. So in case of shaft needing 2 sniper shots, I take the initial 3 sec. charge (to leverage max. damage, which I always take for Sniper mode) + the reload for 2nd shot + charge for 2nd shot.

A lot of advice texts say that it doesn't make sense to stay a long time fully charged (in scope mode), so I will follow those.

 

For Shaft combined (1 snipe shot + arcade) it would be 1 x snipe charge + 0.5 sec. delay to leave snipe mode + reload of arcade.

 

For Shaft arcade the only relevant time parameter is the time from shot to shot.

 

The initial shot of rail needs 1.1 sec (as some kind of charge).  

What is interesting is that using the model of fully-reloaded but not scoped-in, Shaft stock and Shaft alteration have the exact same TTK for a medium hull- 6.5 seconds.

Edited November 28, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Tani_S 736]

Hmm I have a bit different results:

Shaft alteration (1 max shot is enough) = 6 sec. TTK (1x alt. charge)

Shaft combo (1 charge + 0.5 + arcade reload) = 6.24 sec. TTK

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Hmm I have a bit different results:

Shaft alteration (1 max shot is enough) = 6 sec. TTK (1x alt. charge)

Shaft combo (1 charge + 0.5 + arcade reload) = 6.24 sec. TTK

Actually there is a .5 second delay in entering sniping mode

 

Plus, arcade reloads in exactly 2.5 seconds. Add .5+.5+3+2.5 and you get 6.5 for stock as well.

[Tani_S 736]

As what I've seen is that there is a 0.5 delay to go into sniping mode, which hinders you to shoot really early, but the 0.5 is part of the 3 sec. normal charge. And the 0.5 after the snipe shot is only (as far as I know) applied when you want to shoot arcade shots directly after the snipe shot.

 

To the 2nd point: I thought you were calculating with M3 (like I did)  :D

Edited November 28, 2016 by Tani_S

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

As what I've seen is that there is a 0.5 delay to go into sniping mode, which hinders you to shoot really early, but the 0.5 is part of the 3 sec. normal charge. And the 0.5 after the snipe shot is only (as far as I know) applied when you want to shoot arcade shots directly after the snipe shot.

 

To the 2nd point: I thought you were calculating with M3 (like I did)  :D

Noooooo M4 statistics. M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics.  M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics.  

 

much better....ahhh....

 

Plus, that isn't what the wiki says, but we've learned never to trust the wiki. :D 

Edited November 28, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Tani_S 736]

Noooooo M4 statistics. M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics.  M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics. M4 Statistics.  

 

much better....ahhh....

 

Plus, that isn't what the wiki says, but we've learned never to trust the wiki. :D 

Yea indeed  :lol:

There is always room for interpretation ^^ You can conduct tests yourself, but this is what I experienced in the game tho.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Tani_S

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Tanki is unbalanced :/

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

M3, M4, ... - I would do this:

 

1st: have a table with all turrets and stats you need.

Every stat gets one line.

Columns from left to right: turret name / stat name / chosen value / M0 value / M1 value / M2.... M3 value / M4 value

(I would enter only M3 and M4, but I would craft all columns :p)

 

2nd

Above that table you have a drop-down selection cell.

There you chose: M0, M1, M2, M3, M4 <- [chosen_M_level]

 

3rd

For each stat in table from 1st you enter in the column [chosen value] a formula, that checks the [chosen_M_level] from above, goes to the right and takes the propper value into the [chosen value] column.

 

4th

All other formulas and calculations base on the values from the [chosen value] column.

 

So you can craft the things only once, and switch the stats from M3 to M4 with the flick of your.. keyboard :p

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

But M3 stats have decimals!!!   :unsure: It gets on my nerves.... :(

 

M4 stats just look perfect.

Edited November 28, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[NatchGa 665]

so which developer thought it was a good idea to take away what made each turret special??? seriously... Isida's self healing does nothing, its regular healing has been nerfed, firebird takes longer to set things on fire (which is what made it cool) Twin's crazy reload time, and shafts penetration... 

[austen_pierce 1,948]

so which developer thought it was a good idea to take away what made each turret special??? seriously... Isida's self healing does nothing, its regular healing has been nerfed, firebird takes longer to set things on fire (which is what made it cool) Twin's crazy reload time, and shafts penetration...

Fire and Freeze no longer penetrate, Smoky's critical is now little more than a tickle.

 

Rico lost its punch.

 

The list goes on.

Edited November 30, 2016 by austen_pierce

[wolverine848 13,097]

Fire and Freeze no longer penetrate, Smoky's critical is now little more than a tickle.

 

Rico lost its punch.

 

The list goes on.

Next re-balance...

 

All turrets do EXACTLY same thing.

All hulls have EXACTLY same protection.

 

But they look different so feel free to buy one of each  ;)

[Tani_S 736]

The critical shot brings in 6.5% - 6.6% more damage (compared to the total damage output of Smoky with and without critical shot).

Edited November 30, 2016 by Tani_S

[wolverine848 13,097]

Austen

 

I have smoky full m4 sitting on Viking full m4 and I can do more than tickle you. Very rarely do I run into anyone I can't 2 or 3 shot at most. With drugs definitely. Most 15 minute battles I end up something like 25 - 7 unless I am going against the "big" boys, the guys who have 6 - 10 million XP and a million drugs and protections.

If you are going up against those of similar levels won't they be using supplies too?

A Viking M4 with DA  has 6000 health. Then there's Protection Modules.

 

Plus Austin might be referring to longer ranges where Smoky has 10% weak damage. That really is a tickle.

[Epic_Space_Mango18 592]

Simoom is too op...so imma get it on my backup

[austen_pierce 1,948]

The critical shot brings in 6.5% - 6.6% more damage (compared to the total damage output of Smoky with and without critical shot).

This is the tickle I am talking about. The negligible incremental damage done by the nerfed critical.

 

I agree that Smoky in general is a good/very good turret. It may now be the new hotness since Vulcan, Firebird, and Freeze all got nerfed today.