category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Tani_S 736]

^ Thanks for describing the varying effect, I was too lazy for that  :P  By saying '60' damage he probably meant 600 in the new system  ^_^ So he was probably nearer than 130 m away.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tani_S

[Guest]

Game balance hmmm . 

 

Let me tell you a story 

 

2014 , the time i joined the game , Everyone was Light tank and medium tanks with rail fire twin as their main equipment . There would be only 1 player in the game that drugs , yet we could of still counter him and kill him . 

 

Now 2016 , on the brink of 2017 

 

Everyone is goddam titan , mammoth , Using those skilless vulcan and hammer and isida . Remember i said there would only be 1 drugger in the entire match ? Now its the opposite , there will only be 1 non-drugger in the match nowadays 

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

^same impression regarding the hulls.

In lower tiers everyone was light and medium.. in Gismo ranks there were almost only Mediums with heavy prtection paints around.

Heavies were simply far too slow

 

but I saw more turrets then you back in 2014.

There were also Ricos and Thunders, but no Smokys in M1/M2 :p

[Brokkolo 43]

For me thunder, Hammer seem overpowered and need small nerf. But Rico needs small buff, smoky great buff in long range. And vulcan needs very great buff. They nerfed vulcan even more than isida. Rico is very rarely seeable turret. Rico needs much bigger ammo in my opinion. Fire and freeze need to have that penetration ability, even if it is annoying during gold times. These turrets are overnerfed too like vulcan.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

For me thunder, Hammer seem overpowered and need small nerf. But Rico needs small buff, smoky great buff in long range. And vulcan needs very great buff. They nerfed vulcan even more than isida. Rico is very rarely seeable turret. Rico needs much bigger ammo in my opinion. Fire and freeze need to have that penetration ability, even if it is annoying during gold times. These turrets are overnerfed too like vulcan.

Green=good. Red=no. Grey=okay

 

I think Firebird needs the penetration back as well as stock firebird needs a bit more afterburn. Freeze doesn't need the penetration because then it would be much better than Firebird. IMO Firebird should be the only one with penetration so it can light up a group of tanks.Freeze just needs a little buff in the freezing efffect, or make it independent from DA at least.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Green=good. Red=no. Grey=okay

 

Freeze just needs a little buff in the freezing efffect, or make it independent from DA at least.

"make it independent from DA..." ?

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

"make it independent from DA..." ?

Freeze effect is cut in half against an enemy with DA.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Freeze effect is cut in half against an enemy with DA.

Interesting... documented?  Or "observation"?  

 

If true guess I'll be using DA more often because I don't find the freezing effect weak at all. I'm always brought to a complete standstill.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Update 114 - Rebalance

Update 205 - New Physics

Update 254 - First adjustment to parameters

Update 270 - Second adjustment to parameters

Update 296 - Shaft's laser

Update 299 - Addition of Hammer and new aiming mechanism

Update 310 - Weakening impact force of Shaft, Smoky and Railgun

Update 317 - Changes to Twins, Firebird and Ricochet

Update 331 - Increase in armour for medium and heavy hulls

Update 347 - Third adjustment to parameters

Update 354 - Fourth adjustment to parameters

Update 355 - Changes to Firebird, Freeze and Isida

 

 

Feel free to post any suggestions and complaints regarding balance here.

 

Time to use spoilers or this is going to be one looooong post when they're done balancing XD

Edited December 13, 2016 by Spit_Fyre

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Time to use spoilers or this is going to be one looooong post when they're done balancing XD

It's outdated as well. :) The main post needs some serious updating.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Interesting... documented?  Or "observation"?  

 

If true guess I'll be using DA more often because I don't find the freezing effect weak at all. I'm always brought to a complete standstill.

Observation: when I'm using inferno (44% freeze protection), the hull definitely freezes more slowly.

Observation: when I'm using inferno (36% fire protection), I can't tell so much of a difference in the rate of afterburn.

 

Probably because freezing has a more tangible effect anyway.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

It's outdated as well. :) The main post needs some serious updating.

I do not envy the OP.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Observation: when I'm using inferno (44% freeze protection), the hull definitely freezes more slowly.

Observation: when I'm using inferno (36% fire protection), I can't tell so much of a difference in the rate of afterburn.

 

Probably because freezing has a more tangible effect anyway.

Also, the heating rate doesn't change, only the burning damage, so your tank will be the same shade of red/orange, which might be misleading.

[Tani_S 736]

Freeze effect is cut in half against an enemy with DA.

Also, the heating rate doesn't change, only the burning damage, so your tank will be the same shade of red/orange, which might be misleading.

So would this mean, that the Freezing level of turret and hull is half as strong as normal when someone is equipped with DA (and it has no effect on freezing rate)?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I think it will just take longer to freeze him.

 

I doubt that the temperature limit is effected.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

So would this mean, that the Freezing level of turret and hull is half as strong as normal when someone is equipped with DA (and it has no effect on freezing rate)?

I think it will just take longer to freeze him.

 

I doubt that the temperature limit is effected.

Only freezing rate is affected, not temperature limit (freezing level of turret/hull.) Remember, this isn't officially CONFIRMED, but my in-game experience (and others') points to this conclusion.

 

For example in a Polygon CP game the other day:

 

1. Hunter/Thunder m2, no upgrades. I sneak up on them with freeze from behind. By turning his/her turret and hull, he/she is able to turn completely around in about a second. (Leaving me raging at the worthlessness of the freezing effect. :P)

 

Hornet/Twins m2, no upgrades. Got them from behind with freeze and he/she isn't even halfway around before he/she is dead.  Of course, this may be due to his low amount of hp (he might've been low on health, but I definitely notice dramatic differences.

 

About DA, I'm not so sure, but I think i've experienced it too. The main thing is that even an m2 module against freeze (25%) makes a big difference. That's probably why freeze players complain so much about the weakness of the freeze effect against higher ranks;

 

lots of drugging players with DA and lots of freeze protection. (especially for the maps freezes tend to frequent.)

Edited December 14, 2016 by r_I_already_won0

[Tani_S 736]

Thank you for the testings  :)

I think it's a bit weird that the freezing rate is then affected, whereas Fire's heating rate is not (but its burning damage as you said).

 

Edit: Or is there a difference between what is affected by DA and what is affected by modules?

Edited December 14, 2016 by Tani_S

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Thank you for the testings  :)

I think it's a bit weird that the freezing rate is then affected, whereas Fire's heating rate is not (but its burning damage as you said).

 

Edit: Or is there a difference between what is affected by DA and what is affected by modules?

Freeze and heating do different things.

 

Freezing hampers enemy movement but if the turret stops firing the enemy stops taking damage. So the module presumably reduces the hampering effect plus damage from the turret.

 

Heating does "do" anything itself to the enemy. It is just the mechanism that creates the afterburn portion of the damage. So all the module has to do is reduce the end-product damage from the afterburn. 

 

Just a guess.

Edited December 14, 2016 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

^

Actually the freeze effect and firebird afterburn strength are dependent on the same mechanism. (For firebird it is *max burning damage* times *temperature* applied every second. For freeze it is *turret/hull speed" times *freezing rate minus heating rate* times the number of seconds.) There is no reason why the freezing effect should be affected but not the heating rate.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

If Fire protection would slow down the heat-up AND reduce the damage, then you would just receive a quarter of the damage (assumed you have 50% protection). Therefore it makes sense, that fireprotection effects only one thing.

 

(But it do not know if it does..)

[wolverine848 13,097]

Observation: when I'm using inferno (44% freeze protection), the hull definitely freezes more slowly.

Observation: when I'm using inferno (36% fire protection), I can't tell so much of a difference in the rate of afterburn.

 

Probably because freezing has a more tangible effect anyway.

However Protection Modules and DA are not the same thing. I've heard the Protection Module does slow the freezing... but nothing confirmed on the DA aspect.

 

last evening my Viking M3 (with DA equipped) froze solid. Maybe it's an M4 freeze? (no time to hit 'v" as I'm fighting for my life...)

[Spit_Fyre 334]

However Protection Modules and DA are not the same thing.

Aren't they functionally similar? Can you explain what you mean plz? I didn't fully understand.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

However Protection Modules and DA are not the same thing. 

I think they work, code-wise, in the same way. A DA could be programmed as 50% protection against all turrets and mines.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I think they work, code-wise, in the same way. A DA could be programmed as 50% protection against all turrets and mines.

My guess is that DA just simply increases the amount of health your hull has.

But this begs another question... what happens when the DA expires?

If you start with 300 health and pop a DA. Take 200 dmg. Does that 200 dmg come off the temporary health?

Or maybe it just acts like 50% protection mentioned above...

 

Protection Modules definitely work the other way - they reduce the amount of damage turrets do.

A secondary (rumored) effect is that side effects (like freezing) are reduced in a proportional way.

 

Big question is... how do freezing mechanics work?  Are they constant regardless of hull?  Based solely on the freeze turret?

Edited December 14, 2016 by wolverine848

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

A DA pack works for sure as 50% protection vs everything.

 

The other alternative would be to double the hitpoints of the tank.. but this is a bad option, as you would also have to double the HealthPacks healing rate in case a DA is equipped in order to catch up with. And you have to time it right if the DA runs out while the healthpack is deploying the healing (takes 2 sec). So this second option is way to complicated and gives no advantage.

 

--

But the thing is that protection modules and DA effects could work in layers.

Like the incoming hit (firebird, shell, ...)

- is first reduced in it's effect by the protection module (with impact on it's effects, like temperature)

- and in a second step the resulting temperature increase, damage, self damage, .. is put through the DA piece of code

 

 

So while it uses the same principle, it does not necessarily has to be the exact same code. A two-staged code would allow to tune the effects later on more detailed. So it would by my best choice, if I would have to code something where I do not know how the balance has to be tweaked later on. twostaged means a little less performance but far more simplicity and versability.

Edited December 14, 2016 by BlackWasp777