category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Actually shaft m0 does 988.24 damage with no micro upgrades, and shaft is actually balanced now

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

[Tani_S 736]

In general it's better to have a mix of different weapons in one team, so that you can react flexibly and so that you are not so affected by module effects. But what do you think, which turrets does a decent or even better job when there are several turrets of the same in one team?
I've heard that Isida packs performed quite well together, is it still the case at the moment?
I bet that artillery groups will do good as well. Are there any others?

[misafeco 713]

Vulcan army is quite powerful.  :D

[Benefactor 6,888]

I would like to see rather than nerf shaft eliminate it from the game. I would like to be able to see the coward shooting at me.

See if they can camp in Island, Duel, or Ping-Pong.

[Destroyer2380 0]

If anyone has had an inside look on what the new artillery turret will look like, please let me know i would really appreciate it. :D

[Tani_S 736]

If anyone has had an inside look on what the new artillery turret will look like, please let me know i would really appreciate it. :D

Well nobody knows it for sure, but if I had a guess: I would expect, either  a big single barreled gun (or maybe this one ;)) with one big shot or one that shoots many small shots simultaneously like a organ gun. Of course both alternatives need a more vertically directed gun or barrel in order to shoot in an arc as it was described. At the organ gun you might get the powerful recoil as it shoots everything at once and by spraying the pellets (like Hammer) it might get the biggest splash radius in the game.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Tani_S

[Tani_S 736]

Actually I find the idea with the artillery shooting many pellets at once really cool  :wub:

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

The Shaft is the enemy of Tankers everywhere. At M0, it does a whopping 1000 damage, which is about the same as a M2 Railgun within the maximum damage range.

 

Yes, the point of Shaft is to have a high damage. It sacrifices a lot for that.

 

The Shaft is very annoying and very hard to beat. Please make it underpowered again.

 

I am sick of players who, in their own words, want a turret underpowered (and hence unbalanced), only because they find it annoying.

 

Also, I would avoid complaining about Shaft until Major.  Shaft is quite OP at lower ranks because the skills and teamwork to counter it simply haven't popped up yet. :)

Edited February 1, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[austen_pierce 1,948]

I remember when Firebird got its buff and ruled the game for what seemed like a year. Then it got nerfed.

 

I vaguely remember Thunder was powerful years ago but got nerfed.

 

While that was happening, Rico was getting a series of buffs, but that too came to an end with a nerf.

 

Meanwhile Isida was a death machine, then also de-fanged.

 

Then Freeze got a buff, after having been nerfed and was OP, but only for a few months.

 

Then Vulcan seemed to be king, and then got nerfed.

 

Followed by Smoky. OP for a very little while, then nerfed.

 

 

So my question is - which turret is considered OP now? Which turrets is the smart money to be buffed next?

 

Striker seems to be getting buffs - might only last until players figure out how to use it though.

[Benefactor 6,888]

Twins with the upcoming splash damage update.

[Maf 32,300]

So my question is - which turret is considered OP now? Which turrets is the smart money to be buffed next?

Topic merged

 

I personally think Hammer is really strong now, especially with both alterations. Also rare-ish weapons like Rico, Twins and Freeze are good now, since very few players use modules with protections from them, as opposed to Thunder, Railgun and Shaft, who usually face at least 5 enemies with 30%+ protection in a 10v10 game.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

Here? Yep , here it is.

 

Is there any way to know where a topic gets merged to?

Edited February 1, 2017 by austen_pierce

[Tani_S 736]

@austen_pierce

 

The question is not only about turrets anymore, but also about alterations. My personal opinion:

• I.e. I consider the stock firebird actually (at least a bit) UP, whereas the Firebird M2 alt. is stronger as it should be.
• Hammer is the most OP turret (a nerf is only a question of time). M2 alteration is also stronger than it should be, compared to stock Hammer.
• Followed by Twins and probably Ricochet
• Smoky and Thunder are still among of the strongest turrets in the game. Esp. M1 thunder is OP. Smoky M2 is THE turret for the gap till M3s at Marshall are available.
• Rail + high caliber ammo alt. = probably the best distance turret
• Rail M2 is too weak
• Freeze is quite good and still balanced, but it has no alt. this good compared to Fire.
• Striker might get another buff
• Vulcan is a bit too weak now, but I don't expect buffs in the next time.
• Shaft is underperforming with its xp gather rate, but balanced with its firepower through a weak snipe and a strong arcade mode. Don't expect buffs.
• Isida's firepower is obviously bad, but the xp gather rate is balanced (I think this was one nerf reason).

As we've seen in the last parameter changes, instead of asking which ones will get buffs, it might be better to ask, which turrets won't get nerfs  :ph34r:

Edited February 2, 2017 by Tani_S

[LittleWillie 3,199]

@austen_pierce

 

The question is not only about turrets anymore, but also about alterations. My personal opinion:

• I.e. I consider the stock firebird actually (at least a bit) UP, whereas the Firebird M2 alt. is stronger as it should be.
• Hammer is the most OP turret (a nerf is only a question of time). M2 alteration is also stronger than it should be, compared to stock Hammer.
• Followed by Twins and probably Ricochet
• Smoky and Thunder are still among of the strongest turrets in the game. Esp. M1 thunder is OP. Smoky M2 is THE turret for the gap till M3s at Marshall are available.
• Rail + high caliber ammo alt. = probably the best distance turret
• Rail M2 is too weak
• Freeze is quite good and still balanced, but it has no alt. this good compared to Fire.
• Striker might get another buff
• Vulcan is a bit too weak now, but I don't expect buffs in the next time.
• Shaft is underperforming with its xp gather rate, but balanced with its firepower through a weak snipe and a strong arcade mode. Don't expect buffs.
• Isida's firepower is obviously bad, but the xp gather rate is balanced (I think this was one nerf reason).

As we've seen in the last parameter changes, instead of asking which ones will get buffs, it might be better to ask, which turrets won't get nerfs  :ph34r:

The only blatant OP turret really is hammer. Thee's just too many hammers going around at DD 100% of the time 1-shotting tanks.

 

It is very hard to see how Thunder's ROF and damage-per-shot is justified compared to Smoky's performance esp when you consider the alterations which can make Thunder the faster-firing weapon.

 

(As for what weapon is "the" m# weapon that is just an effect of Tanki's weird ranking system. Any weapon that unlocks last will get theis "the" crown.  It is not a factor in balancing because on MUs which water down this "the" effect.)

 

Striker is too early to say how it will be adjusted. But it is "the" long-distance turret when you think about it. Massive damage at massive range and even the substantial splash damage is at 100% at long range.

[Tani_S 736]

It is very hard to see how Thunder's ROF and damage-per-shot is justified compared to Smoky's performance esp when you consider the alterations which can make Thunder the faster-firing weapon.

The only way how Thunder can fire faster than Smoky is when both Smoky and Thunder have their M2 alterations equipped.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

With supplies enabled I reckon hammer and shaft are the most OP. A shaft only has to be in scope mode for a fraction of a second to destroy most tanks.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

Weapons with more layers are harder to balance I think. Guess that's why ricochet, freeze, thunder, isida, shaft updates miss their mark at times. The others are more straightforward - firebird, hammer, smoky, rail, twins.

 

Nerf the hammer already, it's getting annoying - light hulls are having a hard time as it is.

 

 

 

Yes Tani, I know you think it's not the turret but the alteration. So.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Spit_Fyre

[Tani_S 736]

Weapons with more layers are harder to balance I think. Guess that's why ricochet, freeze, thunder, isida, shaft updates miss their mark at times. The others are more straightforward - firebird, hammer, smoky, rail, twins.

 

Nerf the hammer already, it's getting annoying - light hulls are having a hard time as it is.

 

Yes Tani, I know you think it's not the turret but the alteration. So.

:P  I think it's probably both - the turret and the alteration. In the last days I noticed that Hammer's M1 alt. has a big influence for the performance, too. You are right, that turrets with more layers are harder to get balanced. The funny thing is that since the alterations are introduced, there are kind of a lot more layers for every turret and every turret change is multiplied by affected alterations.

[Spit_Fyre 334]

:P  I think it's probably both - the turret and the alteration.

I wish you'd stop changing your stance on things and stay put so I can pound you with my bluntness. :D

 

 

J/k okay?

 

 

 

People who photoshop should know how OP layers can be.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Spit_Fyre

[Tani_S 736]

I wish you'd stop changing your stance on things and stay put so I can pound you with my bluntness. :D

 

 

J/k okay?

 

 

 

People who photoshop should know how OP layers can be.

Nice one  :D

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The only way how Thunder can fire faster than Smoky is when both Smoky and Thunder have their M2 alterations equipped.

Correct.

 

And when this condision exists, Thunder/s individual shots do more damage than a Smoky Crit Hit ... plus Thunder adds splash damage. I think it even does a bit more Impact Force.

 

Hard to see how this is considered "balanced".  REAL VERY hard.

Edited February 2, 2017 by LittleWillie

[Tani_S 736]

Correct.

 

And when this condision exists, Thunder/s individual shots do more damage than a Smoky Crit Hit ... plus Thunder adds splash damage. I think it even does a bit more Impact Force.

 

Hard to see how this is considered "balanced".  REAL VERY hard.

When both m2 alterations are equipped on the turrets (m4), then Smoky has a crit hit of 840, Thunder's avg. dmg. is 704. IMO the Smoky M2 alt. is worse than Thunder's M2 alteration (dps decrease vs. keeping dps and dps is more important for Smoky than for Thunder). Thunder's M2 alt. has as an additional advantage a higher impact force per second, whereas Smoky's alt. has a lower impact force /sec, with each one compared to stock turret.

 

Smoky is for attacking and Thunder is for staying in the back (though I rarely do that myself  ;)). Smoky nerf mainly hit M4. I also think that players often don't use the full potential in playing both turrets, so for Smoky by better leveraging what it is known about the Crit shot mechanics (when does it appear) and for Thunder to use the splash more, just like Striker players have still potential to upskill.

 

The question about balance for Thunder is not so easy, as you have the normal attack layer, the splash layer and the self-damage layer. So it has purposefully a higher damage output, but has to take damage too as tradeoff and the enemy tries to use it of course. The question is how much value has splash and how much has self-damage (that's why I also think that Vulcan's damage output is too low compared to its self-damage). On the one hand Thunder is more of a team weapon than Smoky (coz of slow reload), on the other hand it uses the high damage and splash for killstealing in DM.

 

I haven't checked the stats of other smoky players, but my xp gather rate with Thunder is about as high as mine with Isida (tho I played before with Isida on lower Ms as well), which is around 1,400 xp per hour. I expect that Smoky's xp gather rate is lower. Maybe this measure points to a nerf for Thunder.

 

So let's see if we get a nerf for Thunder, too. Consider that a damage nerf, directly affects also splash damage. Tho it is reduced by a lower self-dmg., but the splash is more important. The devs said, that they are reworking the functioning of the splash effect, tho primarily for the coming artillery and Twins+Rico alteration, but maybe it will have an effect on Thunder's splash and self-damage as well. Let's get surprised  ^_^

Edited February 2, 2017 by Tani_S

[LittleWillie 3,199]

When both m2 alterations are equipped on the turrets (m4), then Smoky has a crit hit of 840, Thunder's avg. dmg. is 704. IMO the Smoky M2 alt. is worse than Thunder's M2 alteration (dps decrease vs. keeping dps and dps is more important for Smoky than for Thunder). Thunder's M2 alt. has as an additional advantage a higher impact force per second, whereas Smoky's alt. has a lower impact force /sec, with each one compared to stock turret.

 

Smoky is for attacking and Thunder is for staying in the back (though I rarely do that myself  ;)). Smoky nerf mainly hit M4. I also think that players often don't use the full potential in playing both turrets, so for Smoky by better leveraging what it is known about the Crit shot mechanics (when does it appear) and for Thunder to use the splash more, just like Striker players have still potential to upskill.

 

The question about balance for Thunder is not so easy, as you have the normal attack layer, the splash layer and the self-damage layer. So it has purposefully a higher damage output, but has to take damage too as tradeoff and the enemy tries to use it of course. The question is how much value has splash and how much has self-damage (that's why I also think that Vulcan's damage output is too low compared to its self-damage). On the one hand Thunder is more of a team weapon than Smoky (coz of slow reload), on the other hand it uses the high damage and splash for killstealing in DM.

 

I haven't checked the stats of other smoky players, but my xp gather rate with Thunder is about as high as mine with Isida (tho I played before with Isida on lower Ms as well), which is around 1,400 xp per hour. I expect that Smoky's xp gather rate is lower. Maybe this measure points to a nerf for Thunder.

 

So let's see if we get a nerf for Thunder, too. Consider that a damage nerf, directly affects also splash damage. Tho it is reduced by a lower self-dmg., but the splash is more important. The devs said, that they are reworking the functioning of the splash effect, tho primarily for the coming artillery and Twins+Rico alteration, but maybe it will have an effect on Thunder's splash and self-damage as well. Let's get surprised  ^_^

Maybe I crossed columns when I was reading the data last ... I was doing the math in my head so I might have made an error in comparing the damage w/alterations.

 

I agree with your comments on Smoky's m2 alteration.  It is nice to tighten the damage distribution. On some maps it can be sorta handy. But that 40% added to reload time is huge. 

 

On a side note the same lower dps xomplaint applies to the m1 alteration. The higher impact force can be very handy too ... but once again damage is damage and in Tanki damage is king. Now that the novelty is over the un-aktered Smoky seems the best best most always.

 

So yo are not kidding about splash damage being added to Twins?  And Rico too? AS IF those turrets needed even more power.  But wait sec? How can Rcso "splash" if it bounces when it hits terrain?

 

Thanks god so many Twins and Rico players never learn to turn their turrets....

[Tani_S 736]

Maybe I crossed columns when I was reading the data last ... I was doing the math in my head so I might have made an error in comparing the damage w/alterations. No problem  ;)

 

I agree with your comments on Smoky's m2 alteration.  It is nice to tighten the damage distribution. On some maps it can be sorta handy. But that 40% added to reload time is huge. 

 

On a side note the same lower dps xomplaint applies to the m1 alteration. The higher impact force can be very handy too ... but once again damage is damage and in Tanki damage is king. Now that the novelty is over the un-aktered Smoky seems the best best most always. Yeah I think so too, the M1 alt. omits the 30 % stronger critical damage and without this, it doesn't make sense to shoot into the distance. 

 

So yo are not kidding about splash damage being added to Twins?  And Rico too? AS IF those turrets needed even more power.  But wait sec? How can Rcso "splash" if it bounces when it hits terrain? No, I am not kidding  :P You can check Vlog 118 from 3:00 for this. Yeah I don't know why exactly they put it on the plasma guns... BlackWasp suggested, that they might remove Rico's bounce to get splash, because they usually removed the special ability of the turret for an alteration. Maybe they reduce Twins damage or its big autoaim angle to get splash.

 

Thanks god so many Twins and Rico players never learn to turn their turrets.... Psst  :ph34r: I am playing Twins now and then and I am actively turning the turret  :lol: