category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

 

On a side note the same lower dps xomplaint applies to the m1 alteration. The higher impact force can be very handy too ... but once again damage is damage and in Tanki damage is king. Now that the novelty is over the un-aktered Smoky seems the best best most always. Yeah I think so too, the M1 alt. omits the 30 % stronger critical damage and without this, it doesn't make sense to shoot into the distance. 

 

So yo are not kidding about splash damage being added to Twins?  And Rico too? AS IF those turrets needed even more power.  But wait sec? How can Rcso "splash" if it bounces when it hits terrain? No, I am not kidding  :P You can check Vlog 118 from 3:00 for this. Yeah I don't know why exactly they put it on the plasma guns... BlackWasp suggested, that they might remove Rico's bounce to get splash, because they usually removed the special ability of the turret for an alteration. Maybe they reduce Twins damage or its big autoaim angle to get splash.

 

Thanks god so many Twins and Rico players never learn to turn their turrets.... Psst  :ph34r: I am playing Twins now and then and I am actively turning the turret  :lol:

 

Agreed about the loss of distance effectiveness.  There's no doubt that the extra impact can give you a bit extra time to shoot. problkem is, you NEED that extra time to shoot. So many 4-hot kills turn into 5-hot kills, etc. Better to just kill in 4.

 

Well, Twins better give up something pretty good to get splash damage. It is already the sustained DPS monster. But ?I was forgetting it's have to give up something.

 

I almsot, almost decided to go with Twins before I makde SkittleWillie Vulcan/Wasp. Aiming and shooting on the move with Twins ia a bit fun... you have to lead the target .... same skills apply to Striker.  But anyway, MANY Twins players and Rico players don't turn their turrets. Twins players drive around gunning into air (letting you kn they are near / getting closer. (thank you noob).  But as with every turret when you run into a player who knows how to use it ... yikes.

Edited February 3, 2017 by LittleWillie

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I think it is quite hard to nerve Hammers damage per shot (because this turret depends most of all on a correlation of damage-by-turret   -vs-   health of hulls)

A potential nerve could aim on pelet spread, damage-over-range-decrease, or - maybe - reload time.

 

I would pick the pelet spread, because this reduces damage over range in normal operation; while it keeps up the damage-over-range for the focused angle alteration (Slugger? If I'm not mistaken). If slugger is considered as too powerfull then the normal damage-over-range model should be adapted instead.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

So consensus seems to be that Hammer is the current king. I agree.

 

Furthermore the High Capacity Drum alteration IMO is the only alteration in the game worth the crystal cost. Adding two shots lets you finish off heavy hulls.... if you survive long enough to get all five shots off (sometimes that's a big IF)

 

I don't agree that Hammer is over-represented in battles. Yes, they were everywhere on the New Years map, but I'm seeing a good mix of turrets in most battles. Usually (not always) a serious nerf is preceded by a single turret consistently showing up on large numbers - like 3/8, 4/12, etc. A year ago we were seeing this with Firebird. Recently we saw this with Freeze, then for a very short time Vulcan.

 

Rico IMO is the turret to watch. Its larger clip allows it to counter heavy hulls. I haven't seen the surge in M3/M4 usage I expected though. The loss of vertical aim angle hurts a lot on multilevel maps. We know it's getting splash damage, and good money is on a nerf of standard damage in trade. Another alteration possibility is to effectively undo this 'buff' and return the vertical angle in exchange for the smaller clip size.

[Tani_S 736]

I think it is quite hard to nerve Hammers damage per shot (because this turret depends most of all on a correlation of damage-by-turret   -vs-   health of hulls)

A potential nerve could aim on pelet spread, damage-over-range-decrease, or - maybe - reload time.

 

I would pick the pelet spread, because this reduces damage over range in normal operation; while it keeps up the damage-over-range for the focused angle alteration (Slugger? If I'm not mistaken). If slugger is considered as too powerfull then the normal damage-over-range model should be adapted instead.

I think the pellet spread already diminishes Hammer's damage quite effective as it is now. An effective way of nerfing Hammer is increasing the reload time of the single shots within one clip. This can be very harmful for Hammer in my opinion and you can easily overdo it.

 

 

 

So consensus seems to be that Hammer is the current king. I agree.

 

Furthermore the High Capacity Drum alteration IMO is the only alteration in the game worth the crystal cost. Adding two shots lets you finish off heavy hulls.... if you survive long enough to get all five shots off (sometimes that's a big IF)

 

I don't agree that Hammer is over-represented in battles. Yes, they were everywhere on the New Years map, but I'm seeing a good mix of turrets in most battles. Usually (not always) a serious nerf is preceded by a single turret consistently showing up on large numbers - like 3/8, 4/12, etc. A year ago we were seeing this with Firebird. Recently we saw this with Freeze, then for a very short time Vulcan.

 

Rico IMO is the turret to watch. Its larger clip allows it to counter heavy hulls. I haven't seen the surge in M3/M4 usage I expected though. The loss of vertical aim angle hurts a lot on multilevel maps. We know it's getting splash damage, and good money is on a nerf of standard damage in trade. Another alteration possibility is to effectively undo this 'buff' and return the vertical angle in exchange for the smaller clip size.

 

 

I think another alteration that is worth the cost is Firebird's compact tank alt., which turns an UP firebird to a turret beyond being balanced and being about to be OP.

Another reason why Hammer is considered as OP is that only few have protections, as it didn't use to be so popular as it is now and more and more becoming. Agreed, Rico is the turret that has a comeback (I saw a lot more in the past days than normally), but a rico player now needs a more active playing style than before.

[r_Deathcom2 0]

Well what about the new artillery turret that will be coming out soon doesn`t that sound like a good turret?

:huh:

[ghost-guns 1,486]

The battle selection is massively flawed. I keep having to play against M4s because "legend" ranks are included in the battle selection. Usually, the early legend ranks have decent equipment, but the higher ones have multiple M4s. Either split the legend ranks up into different categrories or let people at my rank have a wider selection of battles to choose from. It's just unfair having to play titan M4 twins M4 in almost EVERY battle.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

The battle selection is massively flawed. I keep having to play against M4s because "legend" ranks are included in the battle selection. Usually, the early legend ranks have decent equipment, but the higher ones have multiple M4s. Either split the legend ranks up into different categrories or let people at my rank have a wider selection of battles to choose from. It's just unfair having to play titan M4 twins M4 in almost EVERY battle.

Thanks for reminding me to slow down my exp point gains to the minumum.

 

Tanki Online is a fatally flawed game. I've never played a game before that discouraged gaining exp points. 

 

But let's pretend there's no problems and spend development time on a pathetic clan system that is also fatally-flawed!

Edited February 4, 2017 by LittleWillie

[austen_pierce 1,948]

I think the pellet spread already diminishes Hammer's damage quite effective as it is now. An effective way of nerfing Hammer is increasing the reload time of the single shots within one clip. This can be very harmful for Hammer in my opinion and you can easily overdo it.

 

I think another alteration that is worth the cost is Firebird's compact tank alt., which turns an UP firebird to a turret beyond being balanced and being about to be OP.

Another reason why Hammer is considered as OP is that only few have protections, as it didn't use to be so popular as it is now and more and more becoming. Agreed, Rico is the turret that has a comeback (I saw a lot more in the past days than normally), but a rico player now needs a more active playing style than before.

Compact Tanks WAS the #1 alteration before BOTH the alteration AND the underlying turret got nerfed. Probably still in the top five but not #1 or even #2 these days.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

The battle selection is massively flawed. I keep having to play against M4s because "legend" ranks are included in the battle selection. Usually, the early legend ranks have decent equipment, but the higher ones have multiple M4s. Either split the legend ranks up into different categrories or let people at my rank have a wider selection of battles to choose from. It's just unfair having to play titan M4 twins M4 in almost EVERY battle.

I ranted about this somewhere, and you are right. It starts at Marshal or earlier for kits. Hello M3 equipment = now I have to battle buyers with a full M4 garage. Hello slaughter.

 

IMO the solution to this is easy. Only allow 10 MU steps at each rank from Marshal to Legend-2-ish. Buyers can still round out their garage with more equipment, and normal players can determine what they will be exposed to in terms of MUs using the rank slider.

 

By the time you are Legend you'd better be ready for M4 equipment anyway.

 

Let me be clear - the above is meant to ease players into the endgame. Only those between Marshal and the first Legend rank would be impacted, in a positive way. Higher Legends can still upgrade to M4 without restrictions.

 

Going to post this in I&S and see what happens.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I ranted about this somewhere, and you are right. It starts at Marshal or earlier for kits. Hello M3 equipment = now I have to battle buyers with a full M4 garage. Hello slaughter.

 

IMO the solution to this is easy. Only allow 10 MU steps at each rank from Marshal to Legend-2-ish. Buyers can still round out their garage with more equipment, and normal players can determine what they will be exposed to in terms of MUs using the rank slider.

 

By the time you are Legend you'd better be ready for M4 equipment anyway.

 

Let me be clear - the above is meant to ease players into the endgame. Only those between Marshal and the first Legend rank would be impacted, in a positive way. Higher Legends can still upgrade to M4 without restrictions.

 

Going to post this in I&S and see what happens.

I agree completely about limiting microupgrades per rank. That would make a big difference and people would know what they were getting into prior to entering a battle.

 

Unfortunately I'm guessing tanki make a lot of income from it.

 

There was an update a few years ago that gave a lot of people M4 garages without trying. The microupgrades used to be split up into separate parameters, and anyone who had a parameter maxed out found themself with an M4 after the update. That was badly planned by tanki.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Switch unlock ranks of m2 freeze and m2 isida?

 

This way freeze won't easily dominate most m1 battles because m2 isida will make it slightly more balanced.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

I agree completely about limiting microupgrades per rank. That would make a big difference and people would know what they were getting into prior to entering a battle.

 

Unfortunately I'm guessing tanki make a lot of income from it.

 

There was an update a few years ago that gave a lot of people M4 garages without trying. The microupgrades used to be split up into separate parameters, and anyone who had a parameter maxed out found themself with an M4 after the update. That was badly planned by tanki.

I was around for that. The community was split between the wonderfully happy and furiously overlooked. Only update in my experience that was worse was the paint separation.

 

Anyhoo - I think Tanki would still get their money. I actually think Tanki would get more in the long run. A LOT of players get discouraged and quit the game when faced with the brick wall that is moving from M2 to M4 without being able to play M3 first. Evening this out would be a huge player retention move.

[Maf 32,300]

Switch unlock ranks of m2 freeze and m2 isida?

 

This way freeze won't easily dominate most m1 battles because m2 isida will make it slightly more balanced.

Topic merged

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

I feel that there needs to be some kind of safeguard from someone just waltzing into a match using M3 equipment at my rank. I've seen people who are barely Captain waltzing around with half full M3 garages, massive amounts of supplies, and no limitations whatsoever to their seal clubbing reign. The worst part is the fact that most of them are buyers and even worse stat padders. The only way I can think of Tanki fixing this issue is either removing the ability to MU equipment obtained in kits until you hit the rank at which the equipment unlocks, and even then you can only MU it a few times until you rank up again, or by having the prices of garage kits lowered so that people can buy kits more easily and be able to compete.

I remember talking to a friend and looking at what he said, he's right. He said, after I told him I wanted Annihilator, "You probably won't get it. It's a buyer only kit." He had a friend who had begun saving their crystals since they ranked up to WO1, and by the time they hit Captain, they were still short on crystals and couldn't buy Annihilator. That's 8 ranks worth of crystals and they couldn't afford Annihilator.

There's also the way that the battle fund is distributed. People say that it's linear, but then you go and look at some scores for match like Polygon CPs and you see players in first place getting more crystals than players on the winning team in 4th, 3rd, or even 2nd place. How is that "Linear"? That's a distribution system that is biased towards players with the highest scores, not linear.

 

The game's balance isn't balance, it's anarchy. I just hope that Tanki will start seeing their mistakes and begin fixing them soon.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Please give Viking it's pre rebalance stats back

 

Right now I feel as if it is being disrespected by the devs.
 

[Hammeranonymous 0]

My hammer got nerfed a lot!

I have MU'ed my hammer to 10/50 (m1) before the update, and now the damage is the same as how it was before the update without any MU's.

My hammer m1 before update: 623

My hammer m1 after update: 610

[Tani_S 736]

My hammer got nerfed a lot!

I have MU'ed my hammer to 10/50 (m1) before the update, and now the damage is the same as how it was before the update without any MU's.

My hammer m1 before update: 623

My hammer m1 after update: 610

Do you think it's so obvious ironical, that you don't need an irony flag?  ^_^

[Maf 32,300]

Please give Viking it's pre rebalance stats back

 

Right now I feel as if it is being disrespected by the devs.

 

Topic merged

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

Please give Viking it's pre rebalance stats back

 

Right now I feel as if it is being disrespected by the devs.

 

The devs have said many times that they won't revoke updates, changes stats to previous updates, etc. What the devs can however do if give M1 and M2 Viking armor buffs. It's hard to compete with M1 Hunters when they have almost 300 more armor on you.

[austen_pierce 1,948]

The Viking-Hunter stat swap confounds me. If the idea was to make Hunter more popular at high ranks, they failed. Everyone is still driving their M4 Viking's... duh

[SinguL9lToR 0]

скорлупка, y're really so sure that abled to hide from retribution?? hide and hate,noob)

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

The Viking-Hunter stat swap confounds me. If the idea was to make Hunter more popular at high ranks, they failed. Everyone is still driving their M4 Viking's... duh

well it cost about 1Mio crystals to purchase an M3 hunter and to upgrade it to M4.

But many players new to M3 ranks will tend to get Hunters.

 

Still it makes no sense to make one hull more usefull then the other -.-

[george_ace 57]

I actually got Hunter for the max speed, not the health, so this update kind of hurts me. The same is true for my Wasp: it once was fastest by a good margin and had less health but now they made it really slow and barely added any health to justify it. So now it feels like a Viking M0 instead of a Wasp M2.

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

I think what it was was the devs said

"Hunter is popular and versatile. Many people use it over Viking. What we'll do is make Hunter slower, but give it heavier armor and better acceleration, and we'll make Viking faster and give it slower acceleration and to balance this, we'll give it lighter armor."

I'm certain it wasn't in so many words but that's the general idea.

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

I actually got Hunter for the max speed, not the health, so this update kind of hurts me. The same is true for my Wasp: it once was fastest by a good margin and had less health but now they made it really slow and barely added any health to justify it. So now it feels like a Viking M0 instead of a Wasp M2.

Wasp M2 actually has more armor than M2 Hornet (Which makes zero sense) and it's also faster by a little bit.