category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Topic merged

 

No idea what the point of this is. Switch unlock ranks to encourage parameter change? What?! Why?  :blink:

Because wasp is better than hornet at all modifications, so it would make sense, and besides, m2 hornet looks way better than m2 wasp, m2 wasp looks pretty much like an m1 wasp.

[unbreakablelolipop 0]

i am a warrant officer 3.

I have firebird m1, smoky m1, titan m1, and mammoth m1

all the rest are m0

what i usually see now are people with all m1 and people with m2's!!!

i do not want to be fighting an m2!

people are way too op!

Just saying, you bought all of the cheap M1s.  Don't worry about using M1s though, I'm a Major and I have no M2s yet.  Skill is always the solution.  Use that M1 Smoky, I use M1 Smoky M1 Hunter against tons of M2s (lotsa hornets, isidas, dictators, freezes, rails, fires, thunders, ricos, twins... everything).  I will admit that equipment disadvantage is taking its toll, but I can usually still manage a KD above 1.2 and a good battle score.  I'm guessing you join battles where you are at the lower end of the rank bracket, if you have equipment disadvantage, don't do that.  I have seen colonels, only two ranks above me and buyers without doubt, with M3 Isida M3 Hornet, and my M1 equipment just cannot compete.  I usually join battles with the rank bracket extending no higher than Brigadier.  Even when Major is the upper limit of the rank bracket, half of the people i fight have M2s, and the rest have M1s, meaning that I have consistent equipment disadvantage.  Also, I suggest you buy the Pro Battle Pass and join battles that do not allow drugs.

[r_sg971 163]

Just saying, you bought all of the cheap M1s.  Don't worry about using M1s though, I'm a Major and I have no M2s yet.  Skill is always the solution.  Use that M1 Smoky, I use M1 Smoky M1 Hunter against tons of M2s (lotsa hornets, isidas, dictators, freezes, rails, fires, thunders, ricos, twins... everything).  I will admit that equipment disadvantage is taking its toll, but I can usually still manage a KD above 1.2 and a good battle score.  I'm guessing you join battles where you are at the lower end of the rank bracket, if you have equipment disadvantage, don't do that.  I have seen colonels, only two ranks above me and buyers without doubt, with M3 Isida M3 Hornet, and my M1 equipment just cannot compete.  I usually join battles with the rank bracket extending no higher than Brigadier.  Even when Major is the upper limit of the rank bracket, half of the people i fight have M2s, and the rest have M1s, meaning that I have consistent equipment disadvantage.  Also, I suggest you buy the Pro Battle Pass and join battles that do not allow drugs.

You need to use supplies more in battles if you have weak equipment.

 

Try to join the better team, and if you feel you have a bad team, it is best to leave within 5 minutes than play for full 15 minutes.

Edited May 6, 2017 by r_sg971

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I got killed in two shots by a hammer m2 (!) with no upgrades whilst it was on double damage. Sometimes I shake my head at how much supplies influence the game.

[r_sg971 163]

I got killed in two shots by a hammer m2 (!) with no upgrades whilst it was on double damage. Sometimes I shake my head at how much supplies influence the game.

Thats why I feel micro upgrades are a watse of crystals, they increase your damage by around 10%, but DD increases by 100%.

Edited May 5, 2017 by r_sg971

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Thats why I feel micro upgrades are a wate of crystals, they increase your damage by around 10%, but DD increases by 100%.

You're probably right. Perhaps i'll quit missions to play only pro battles.

[Blackdrakon30 2,943]

To be honest, I dislike the new system with the unlock ranks. I'm currently a Colonel, but most of my battles have Colonel as near the lowest rank! The problem is that the higher ranks have a huge advantage with the unlock of all M3 Kits early on, which makes it near-impossible for me to find good battles that don't have overpowered players. This might be more of an issue with the natural rank ranges of auto-generated battles though. But essentially, it seems like the divide in power is way too sharp now that there's no transition into the M3 ranks. 

[r_sg971 163]

To be honest, I dislike the new system with the unlock ranks. I'm currently a Colonel, but most of my battles have Colonel as near the lowest rank! The problem is that the higher ranks have a huge advantage with the unlock of all M3 Kits early on, which makes it near-impossible for me to find good battles that don't have overpowered players. This might be more of an issue with the natural rank ranges of auto-generated battles though. But essentially, it seems like the divide in power is way too sharp now that there's no transition into the M3 ranks. 

MUing all the way to m3 is way too expensive.

My advice would be to play non-pro only for missions, and head to a no-supplies pro battle (preferably with MUs off) after that.

 

The devs don't really care about the problems we face.

At best they will offer you 20% sale on paints for a week, and hope that makes players happy.

Edited May 9, 2017 by r_sg971

[ghost-guns 1,486]

To be honest, I dislike the new system with the unlock ranks. I'm currently a Colonel, but most of my battles have Colonel as near the lowest rank! The problem is that the higher ranks have a huge advantage with the unlock of all M3 Kits early on, which makes it near-impossible for me to find good battles that don't have overpowered players. This might be more of an issue with the natural rank ranges of auto-generated battles though. But essentially, it seems like the divide in power is way too sharp now that there's no transition into the M3 ranks. 

I would be interested to see the rank distribution of active players. For example, are most active players around legends ranks, or are they in the mid-ranks etc. I face a similar problem where legend ranks populate most of the battles. Sometimes it's not a problem, but then you get the "old" legends who have M4 titans and maxed out legacy modules.

[Strikechard123 241]

Firebird: increase reload by 1 second, increase afterburn at m0 and m1.

Right now firebird afterburn at m0 and m1s levels are laughable, their price should get a little bit higher for this.

 

Freeze: decrease reload by 1 second, instead of slowing to 10% speed at all modifications, make it 10% at m4, 15% at m3, 20% at m2, 25% at m1, 30% at m0.

 

Isida: making it unable to heal an ally who was damaged in the last 2-4 seconds depending on the modification of the isida.

 

Hammer: a little bit more range, a little bit less spread, instead of 9 bullets, make them 12 so it can damage more targets.

 

Twins: increase bullet speed a bit, decrease range a little bit.

 

Ricochet: a little bit less impact force, it is enough with bouncing projectiles and they going to 1000 kilometers per second at higher modifications.

 

Smoky: Critical hit has double impact force, and has double recoil.

 

Thunder: It is fine.

 

Striker: 4 missile barrage don't strike into a building, they turn after they pass the building to hit the target, a little bit more missile speed, and targeting system takes 1 second more.

 

Vulcan: Being able to shoot longer, turret moving slower when overheated.

 

Railgun: It is fine.

 

Magnum: Reloads a little bit more, it is enough with it being a shaft with splash damage from behind a house on the other side of the map.

 

Shaft: a little bit less arcade damage, being able to see through more bushes in sniping mode at longer distances.

 

 

 

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

[Strikechard123 241]

Topic merged

 butt why if Im sugggesting soemthing im not discusing 1!1!!

[SuperNick95 5,312]

 butt why if Im sugggesting soemthing im not discusing 1!1!!

Technically you are discussing. Especially because you found issues in almost every single weapon of the game :D

Believe me, there are reasons if the parameters are set this way. It is a result of years of careful analisys and studies.

[Akame 4,578]

 

Firebird: increase reload by 1 second, increase afterburn at m0 and m1.

Right now firebird afterburn at m0 and m1s levels are laughable, their price should get a little bit higher for this.

 

Freeze: decrease reload by 1 second, instead of slowing to 10% speed at all modifications, make it 10% at m4, 15% at m3, 20% at m2, 25% at m1, 30% at m0.

 

Isida: making it unable to heal an ally who was damaged in the last 2-4 seconds depending on the modification of the isida.

 

Hammer: a little bit more range, a little bit less spread, instead of 9 bullets, make them 12 so it can damage more targets.

 

Twins: increase bullet speed a bit, decrease range a little bit.

 

Ricochet: a little bit less impact force, it is enough with bouncing projectiles and they going to 1000 kilometers per second at higher modifications.

 

Smoky: Critical hit has double impact force, and has double recoil.

 

Thunder: It is fine.

 

Striker: 4 missile barrage don't strike into a building, they turn after they pass the building to hit the target, a little bit more missile speed, and targeting system takes 1 second more.

 

Vulcan: Being able to shoot longer, turret moving slower when overheated.

 

Railgun: It is fine.

 

Magnum: Reloads a little bit more, it is enough with it being a shaft with splash damage from behind a house on the other side of the map.

 

Shaft: a little bit less arcade damage, being able to see through more bushes in sniping mode at longer distances.

 

 

Ok, now i'm gonna walk thru exactly why ALL of your suggestions are full of flaws.

 

 

Firebird - 'laughable burn' The tanks at m0-1 are extremely low in armor, you must be consistently going up against Heavy hulls it would see, but i know how damaging firebird is.

 

Freeze - decreasing freeze effect at higher modifications? From experience, when something is upgraded, it gets better, not nerfed, ever seen clash royal freeze spell or similar?

 

Isida - your suggested proposal would cause severe game impairments, if such characterstics were applied, everyone might as well just damage a tank by a litle and no Isida can heal it for a bit till u kill the isida, logic? And the damaged tank will most likely die before it can get healed with such characteristics.

 

Hammer - already has a perfect range and cone angle for the pellets spread. And increasing the number of pellets would not neceesarily mean hit more tanks, it isn't like splash, also as a result damage per pellet would decrease which would make missing some pellets less costly, although u want to decrease the spread to make it more accurate and increase it's range? I dont see the balane, This hammer is already a force to be reckoned with, we don't want to break the game.

 

Twins - 'bullet', Plasma projectiles velocity is already pretty fast, this turrets range is also perfect since it is a turret which constant damage is applied in relation to distance, no-one has ever complained about twins, so why this odd complaint?

 

Ricochet - 1000 Km/s? exhaggeration much? even at m4, the projectile speed is only 100 m/s, bounces are limited to 20 at all modifications, impact force is not really that much of a problem unless you clearly havnet adapted to countering it. If it had effective impact force it would have been used in parkour more often.

 

Smoky - critical hits are constant at any range, by adding such impact and recoil, it would horrendously make smoky a tough opponent than it already is.

 

Thunder - well this one may be the only one we agree on ~~

 

Striker - you want the rockets to inevitably hit it's target, so tell me, how does one dodge these rockets if you can't hid behind a building or similar? It's missile velocity is already great, i'ts lock on salvo time is also on par, this clearly does not need any adjustments.

 

Vulcan - your point isn't fully explained, being able to shoot longer? without overheating? so increasing time till overheat begins? well if this were to happen, your 2nd proposal for this 'turret slowdown' on overheating of the turret wont be an issue since the turret has had enough time to deal sever lead damage.

 

Railgun - Oh another one agreed on, well ofc rail is fine, it is the most popular turret in the game since it has it's own XP, BP, XP/BP and DR formats.

 

Magnum - Reload is already hefty, and no, this is not a shaft, I would say that striker is more like shaft than magnum. Don't forget there is also chargup time to charge a shot, this turret is not a beast and has many drawbacks leabing it balanced.

 

Shaft - this turret has had many changes, but you want to decrease arcade damage and increase sight? that would make shaft a serious camp threat and it will not be able to be used in a hybrid way. Arcade shot reload is already slower than most other turret reloads and this doesnt add splash or penetration, it is fine.

 

 

 

Overall analysis, the game is balanced well, no changes are really necessary, well not these atleast by just seeing a glimpse of the possible outcomes.

[Maf 32,300]

 butt why if Im sugggesting soemthing im not discusing 1!1!!

This is the topic we use to collect all feedback regarding game balance. Hazel-Rah (the one in charge of balancing the game) doesn't generally need this feedback, but this topic is here nonetheless. It's mostly for us to discuss the current balance situation among ourselves.

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

I will talk about whole game balance (turrets). It's broken now. I will start with in order of how they are listed in my garage.

 

Ricoshet: I know this turret since 2011. On my this account I got 84 hours with it and m3 version. All I can say about it's balanced if without alteration (Minus-Field stabilization) it's avarage and skill based turret. Alteration has way too big projectile speed so if it gets nerf 1 problem less. About it's impact force I will talk later.

 

Railgun: I know this turret since 2011 too, but then I didn't played that much with it. On this my account I got 461 hours (using hornet almost all the time) with it. My railgun is m3. It's balanced now, but damage could be buffed a little. Old railgun (can be back with alteration) was better, but both are pretty balanced.

 

Hammer: I don't know this turret for years. I bought it this winter. I got 64 hours with it. I can't say too much about it, but it's range is a little too big. It's short range turret, not mid-range.

 

Firebird: I got this turret m1, 98 hours with it. I used to use it a lot some time ago. It's balanced now, but my little suggestion is that it could have colored flames as in 2011 because it was really nice xD

 

Freeze: I got this turret m1 and not much hours with it on my this account. I will buy soon m3, because it's nice turret. I used it a lot in 2011. It's balanced now. It's not overpowered as some people say.

 

Isida: I got this turret m1, 54 hours with it on this acc. It was my favorite turret in 2011. Now thanks to Tanki, it's totally broken turret. Twins was (next turret I will discuss) big problem, but Tanki fixed that problem by making twins less problem. Isida m1 with 4/10 MUs deals SAME DAMGE as firebird m3 (almost isida m1 4/10 668 DPS*, fire m3 669 DPS)? I understand it attacks 1 tank at the same time, but that's problem. For example I will take m4s because math with them is easier. m4 isida kills m4 light hull in 2 seconds, medium in 3 seconds, 4 seconds for heavy hull m4??? It would take 4 shots to kill heavy hull m4 with railgun m4 and I think that's not fair even it can be done in long range. I got low rank account. About 50% low rankers uses isida. It used to be twins instead, but it shows how bufing other turret makes OP (Overpowered) turrets to nothing. I used to like playing Island CTF 3v3, but now it's not fun playing against 3 isidas m3, which on top of already OP damage HEALS each other faster than you can kill 1 of them. Healing per second bigger than fire or freeze DPS. What ways players should destroy isida which is healing other isida? Answer is isida. Isida m2 is early m2 - bigger damage than fire or freeze m3. That's something wrong and isida m1 in m3 battles prooves that again. Let's remember old isida. What was that? It was respected support turret. The only ingame turret which can heal other teammates, don't do insane damage, can do self heal. As some developer said "it wasn't fun playing against isida with self heal", it was heaven compared to isida today. Isida now is most offensive turret. My opinion it should have self heal back and nerfed damage or keep as it is today and remove healing ability completly or make it alteration. Me + ricoshet m3 + viking m3 have no chance agaisnt isida m3 viking m3 which got healed, by their teammate and that teammate got healed by their teammate. I hope Tanki will do something about this problem, because some of their action really makes think about quiting this game. I will ignore fact that it's Pay2Win game, I understand that we get play for free, and thing that developers totally don't care about some players leaving who don't pay for them, but you shoud do poll about isida. It's real problem.

DPS* - Damage Per Second

 

Twins: I don't play this just cause it's OP. I would better lose in fair battle than win in unfair one. Maybe I will buy this turret, but only for minigames or parkour. This turret needs no skills at all. All you need is a brick on a keyboard. I don't think that adding spalsh damage nerfed it because someone who uses turret turning controls can do double or triple kills without any problems. I feel like twins didn't get nerf since 2011. I got idea of inifite ammo, but it blows light tanks out of way. If impact force on them gots removed completly they would be almost balanced. Or they should have overheating like vulcan or something similar to that. It has same problem with alteration projectile speed makes no chance of escaping a shot, and it mid-range turret becomes long range and twists you like tornado. So I am saying in short it needs rework (but I wouldn't be sad if it gets removed from game). Please don't add auto aim to this turret because it needs nerf not buff again

 

Smoky: Who remember wasp-smoky combination in old good times when you begin xD? This turret is OP too. Don't needs much skill and gots infinite ammo (I would say so) and deals big damage. All it needs is reload nerf. #BringWasp-SmokyBack

 

Vulcan: My opinion it's balanced and it's unique.

 

Thunder: It used to be problem for me untill I got 35 protection from it. It's not unique anymore and OP. Example: 2 shots hornet, railgun 2 shots hornet. It's problem.

 

Shaft: Almost balanced. Should have slower reload in short range. By the way add tip for new players that capturing flags with shaft-wasp is bad idea.

 

Sriker: Not problem for me. My opinion it's nice joke.

 

Magnum: People underrates it way too much. Isn't awsome to it player who is anywhere from safe spot? This turret is balanced, but needs skill and have best marks in maths, but everyone is the same and can count. It's balanced, because it needs a lot of time to learn.

 

Other topic: XP/BP: Please fix the thing after m2s got close to m3s protections on m2s are the same. Wasp m2 can be 4 shot for railgun m2. This is why I barely play XP/BP now. m2 hornet is stronger than my m3. Is they were they same I would be ok with it. 

 

I hope that developers at least will read this. Maybe I should Pay2Win so they would read this? 

Edited May 16, 2017 by ThomasTheDankEngine2

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

Smoky:  This turret is OP too. Don't needs much skill and gots infinite ammo

Wait - whaaaaat?? :wacko:  :blink:  :D

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

Wait - whaaaaat?? :wacko:  :blink:  :D

When turret is m3 it feels like it has infinite ammo, I am just saying my opinion about game balance xD

[r_sg971 163]

I will talk about whole game balance (turrets). It's broken now. I will start with in order of how they are listed in my garage.

 

Ricoshet: I know this turret since 2011. On my this account I got 84 hours with it and m3 version. All I can say about it's balanced if without alteration (Minus-Field stabilization) it's avarage and skill based turret. Alteration has way too big projectile speed so if it gets nerf 1 problem less. About it's impact force I will talk later.

Railgun: I know this turret since 2011 too, but then I didn't played that much with it. On this my account I got 461 hours (using hornet almost all the time) with it. My railgun is m3. It's balanced now, but damage could be buffed a little. Old railgun (can be back with alteration) was better, but both are pretty balanced.

Hammer: I don't know this turret for years. I bought it this winter. I got 64 hours with it. I can't say too much about it, but it's range is a little too big. It's short range turret, not mid-range.

Firebird: I got this turret m1, 98 hours with it. I used to use it a lot some time ago. It's balanced now, but my little suggestion is that it could have colored flames as in 2011 because it was really nice xD

Freeze: I got this turret m1 and not much hours with it on my this account. I will buy soon m3, because it's nice turret. I used it a lot in 2011. It's balanced now. It's not overpowered as some people say.

Isida: I got this turret m1, 54 hours with it on this acc. It was my favorite turret in 2011. Now thanks to Tanki, it's totally broken turret. Twins was (next turret I will discuss) big problem, but Tanki fixed that problem by making twins less problem. Isida m1 with 4/10 MUs deals SAME DAMGE as firebird m3 (almost isida m1 4/10 668 DPS*, fire m3 669 DPS)? I understand it attacks 1 tank at the same time, but that's problem. For example I will take m4s because math with them is easier. m4 isida kills m4 light hull in 2 seconds, medium in 3 seconds, 4 seconds for heavy hull m4??? It would take 4 shots to kill heavy hull m4 with railgun m4 and I think that's not fair even it can be done in long range. I got low rank account. About 50% low rankers uses isida. It used to be twins instead, but it shows how bufing other turret makes OP (Overpowered) turrets to nothing. I used to like playing Island CTF 3v3, but now it's not fun playing against 3 isidas m3, which on top of already OP damage HEALS each other faster than you can kill 1 of them. Healing per second bigger than fire or freeze DPS. What ways players should destroy isida which is healing other isida? Answer is isida. Isida m2 is early m2 - bigger damage than fire or freeze m3. That's something wrong and isida m1 in m3 battles prooves that again. Let's remember old isida. What was that? It was respected support turret. The only ingame turret which can heal other teammates, don't do insane damage, can do self heal. As some developer said "it wasn't fun playing against isida with self heal", it was heaven compared to isida today. Isida now is most offensive turret. My opinion it should have self heal back and nerfed damage or keep as it is today and remove healing ability completly or make it alteration. Me + ricoshet m3 + viking m3 have no chance agaisnt isida m3 viking m3 which got healed, by their teammate and that teammate got healed by their teammate. I hope Tanki will do something about this problem, because some of their action really makes think about quiting this game. I will ignore fact that it's Pay2Win game, I understand that we get play for free, and thing that developers totally don't care about some players leaving who don't pay for them, but you shoud do poll about isida. It's real problem.

DPS* - Damage Per Second

Twins: I don't play this just cause it's OP. I would better lose in fair battle than win in unfair one. Maybe I will buy this turret, but only for minigames or parkour. This turret needs no skills at all. All you need is a brick on a keyboard. I don't think that adding spalsh damage nerfed it because someone who uses turret turning controls can do double or triple kills without any problems. I feel like twins didn't get nerf since 2011. I got idea of inifite ammo, but it blows light tanks out of way. If impact force on them gots removed completly they would be almost balanced. Or they should have overheating like vulcan or something similar to that. It has same problem with alteration projectile speed makes no chance of escaping a shot, and it mid-range turret becomes long range and twists you like tornado. So I am saying in short it needs rework (but I wouldn't be sad if it gets removed from game). Please don't add auto aim to this turret because it needs nerf not buff again

Smoky: Who remember wasp-smoky combination in old good times when you begin xD? This turret is OP too. Don't needs much skill and gots infinite ammo (I would say so) and deals big damage. All it needs is reload nerf. #BringWasp-SmokyBack

Vulcan: My opinion it's balanced and it's unique.

Thunder: It used to be problem for me untill I got 35 protection from it. It's not unique anymore and OP. Example: 2 shots hornet, railgun 2 shots hornet. It's problem.

Shaft: Almost balanced. Should have slower reload in short range. By the way add tip for new players that capturing flags with shaft-wasp is bad idea.

Sriker: Not problem for me. My opinion it's nice joke.

Magnum: People underrates it way too much. Isn't awsome to it player who is anywhere from safe spot? This turret is balanced, but needs skill and have best marks in maths, but everyone is the same and can count. It's balanced, because it needs a lot of time to learn.

 

Other topic: XP/BP: Please fix the thing after m2s got close to m3s protections on m2s are the same. Wasp m2 can be 4 shot for railgun m2. This is why I barely play XP/BP now. m2 hornet is stronger than my m3. Is they were they same I would be ok with it. 

 

I hope that developers at least will read this. Maybe I should Pay2Win so they would read this? 

Space it out please, leave blank lines after every paragraph.

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

Space it out please, leave blank lines after every paragraph.

Yes, good idea

[TheBlackChick 319]

I don't remember any recent battle in which a certain turret was used by too many players so I think the game balance is just fine as it is now.

[Akame 4,578]

I don't remember any recent battle in which a certain turret was used by too many players so I think the game balance is just fine as it is now.

Agreed :)

 

 

Also for those who use large amounts of text, use a spoiler please

Edited May 16, 2017 by Akame

[TheBlackChick 319]

Also for large amounts of text, use a spoiler please

:huh:  I suppose this part of your reply isn't for me...

[wolverine848 13,097]

When turret is m3 it feels like it has infinite ammo, I am just saying my opinion about game balance xD

Sure you're allowed to have an opinion.

 

And I happen to disagree with it.  Doesn't need much skill?  Try aiming and killing targets with it.

 

You say shaft is balanced, even though it has unlimited ammo.

[Akame 4,578]

Sure you're allowed to have an opinion.

 

And I happen to disagree with it.  Doesn't need much skill?  Try aiming and killing targets with it.

 

You say shaft is balanced, even though it has unlimited ammo.

 

I'm not sure if you are trying to imply that Shaft is the most OP turret?