category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Truthteller 4,204]

Vulcan has charge up time and self damage? We are not factoring in protections and the target can always take cover or run away.. It would not be smart for anyone to fight vulcan head on, everyone has time to take cover unless they are unlucky and are in an open area

[WaspShaft98 114]

vulcan will anyways become OP with overdrive

I used it in the may hoildays, you can basically fire forever and kill the whole enemy team single handedly with the overdrive on.

 

IMO, vulcan with overdrive is much more dangerous than fire/freeze with overdrive, because of the tremendous damage amount it does at long range.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

You also have to think about the lower modifications too, not just m4.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yes you should not comment because your knowledge of vulcan is outdated, try vulcan right now and see if the impact force is as high as you said it is  ;)

 

Why should I use Vulcan to know how an impact force affects a target?  When you're the target you um... kinda get a feel for it, right.

 

And to clarify - my comment was on Impact force before - and why they lowered it. It was ridiculous. Made smoky look like a pillow-fight.

So that's why it should not have increased impact force. as not designed for that. was designed to deal lots of damage quickly.

 

So maybe it needs a damage buff?  This is where I'm not qualified so much to say.

 

But then again I don't use magnum, but I'm not alone in saying it deals too much danage.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

As another forumer above said, the Vulcan is based on the GUA-8/Avenger 30mm rotary cannon and the M61 Vulcan 20mm minigun. Both fire extreme high velocity armor piercing ammunition designed to cut enemy armored fighting vehicles. The GUA-8/Avenger 30mm also has application in aircraft, most iconically in the A-10 Warthog. Firing the 30mm presents little to no recoil because of how it's mounted inside the nose, and hitting enemy fighters with this cannon causes little to no disruption in flight due to the ammo over penetrating the fighter's hull.

 

 

EDIT: Here, do some reading.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

First as for RL weapons that has no bearing on the game. When there are guns that shoot balls of fire that bounce off walls then we can start to talk about RL. :)

 

But actually the recoil from the 30mm cannon is so strong it actually slows an A-!0's warspeed. You are right that it's mounted directly in line with center of mass and the aircraft's nose. If it were off-centered the plane would want to steer in that direction when the gun fired.

 

As for the game ...

 

I think they over-nerfed the Vulcan because they do so many things at once. They reduced DPS. They reduced the auto-gyro. Now impact will make you miss some shots. Net: still lower DPS. They cut down it's vertical arc quite a bit. Net: fewer tactical options. But these steps were done AFTER the big reduction to impact force. The reduction to impact force was an obvious need in such a rapid-firing weapon. (Now a similar problem exists with Twins and Rico.)

 

I criticize the devs for changing too much at once. So were I to undo some of this nerfing I'd start looking at vertical arc. OR start with a mild DPS boost, maybe 5%. +25% is far too much. History shows to stay away from big impact on Vulcan,

 

The auto-gyro aspect is the most interesting. It means Vulcan's are an easy lunch for my Assault Ammo Smoky.

 

But as a Wasp/Vulcan user the auto-gyro has a massive effect. Under strong auto-gyro I had trouble turning my hull while firing. But I learned to use that resistance to sort of brace my light hull against my own recoil. With weak gyro I can turn my aim very fast even while firing because the gun now turns with the hull. (Ever been circle-strafed by a Vulcan? Me neither ... but I've circle-strafed a few.)

 

Nut now with weak gyro my own recoil is my own worst enemy. I have a mis-match; m3 gun on m2 hull. Just firing raises my nose. Firing to the side is most likely to end up with me on my side or top. The whole assembly is always on the verge of control,  But if the thing did not flip over so much the k/d rate would be so high it'd be embrarassing. :p

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

First as for RL weapons that has no bearing on the game. When there are guns that shoot balls of fire that bounce off walls then we can start to talk about RL. :)

 

But actually the recoil from the 30mm cannon is so strong it actually slows an A-!0's warspeed. You are right that it's mounted directly in line with center of mass and the aircraft's nose. If it were off-centered the plane would want to steer in that direction when the gun fired.

 

As for the game ...

 

I think they over-nerfed the Vulcan because they do so many things at once. They reduced DPS. They reduced the auto-gyro. Now impact will make you miss some shots. Net: still lower DPS. They cut down it's vertical arc quite a bit. Net: fewer tactical options. But these steps were done AFTER the big reduction to impact force. The reduction to impact force was an obvious need in such a rapid-firing weapon. (Now a similar problem exists with Twins and Rico.)

 

I criticize the devs for changing too much at once. So were I to undo some of this nerfing I'd start looking at vertical arc. OR start with a mild DPS boost, maybe 5%. +25% is far too much. History shows to stay away from big impact on Vulcan,

 

The auto-gyro aspect is the most interesting. It means Vulcan's are an easy lunch for my Assault Ammo Smoky.

 

But as a Wasp/Vulcan user the auto-gyro has a massive effect. Under strong auto-gyro I had trouble turning my hull while firing. But I learned to use that resistance to sort of brace my light hull against my own recoil. With weak gyro I can turn my aim very fast even while firing because the gun now turns with the hull. (Ever been circle-strafed by a Vulcan? Me neither ... but I've circle-strafed a few.)

 

Nut now with weak gyro my own recoil is my own worst enemy. I have a mis-match; m3 gun on m2 hull. Just firing raises my nose. Firing to the side is most likely to end up with me on my side or top. The whole assembly is always on the verge of control,  But if the thing did not flip over so much the k/d rate would be so high it'd be embrarassing. :p

Now why would anyone want to be using wasp and Vulcan for anything but parkour? :rolleyes:

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

vulcan will anyways become OP with overdrive

I used it in the may hoildays, you can basically fire forever and kill the whole enemy team single handedly with the overdrive on.

 

IMO, vulcan with overdrive is much more dangerous than fire/freeze with overdrive, because of the tremendous damage amount it does at long range.

Not really

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

First as for RL weapons that has no bearing on the game. When there are guns that shoot balls of fire that bounce off walls then we can start to talk about RL. :)

 

But actually the recoil from the 30mm cannon is so strong it actually slows an A-!0's warspeed. You are right that it's mounted directly in line with center of mass and the aircraft's nose. If it were off-centered the plane would want to steer in that direction when the gun fired.

 

As for the game ...

 

I think they over-nerfed the Vulcan because they do so many things at once. They reduced DPS. They reduced the auto-gyro. Now impact will make you miss some shots. Net: still lower DPS. They cut down it's vertical arc quite a bit. Net: fewer tactical options. But these steps were done AFTER the big reduction to impact force. The reduction to impact force was an obvious need in such a rapid-firing weapon. (Now a similar problem exists with Twins and Rico.)

 

I criticize the devs for changing too much at once. So were I to undo some of this nerfing I'd start looking at vertical arc. OR start with a mild DPS boost, maybe 5%. +25% is far too much. History shows to stay away from big impact on Vulcan,

 

The auto-gyro aspect is the most interesting. It means Vulcan's are an easy lunch for my Assault Ammo Smoky.

 

But as a Wasp/Vulcan user the auto-gyro has a massive effect. Under strong auto-gyro I had trouble turning my hull while firing. But I learned to use that resistance to sort of brace my light hull against my own recoil. With weak gyro I can turn my aim very fast even while firing because the gun now turns with the hull. (Ever been circle-strafed by a Vulcan? Me neither ... but I've circle-strafed a few.)

 

Nut now with weak gyro my own recoil is my own worst enemy. I have a mis-match; m3 gun on m2 hull. Just firing raises my nose. Firing to the side is most likely to end up with me on my side or top. The whole assembly is always on the verge of control,  But if the thing did not flip over so much the k/d rate would be so high it'd be embrarassing. :p

Circle strafing people with Wasp/Vulc is hilarious fun, especially with an M1 Wasp. People try to shoot you but they're "WHERE IS HE?!!!" And then you just keep circling and shooting.

[WaspShaft98 114]

Circle strafing people with Wasp/Vulc is hilarious fun, especially with an M1 Wasp. People try to shoot you but they're "WHERE IS HE?!!!" And then you just keep circling and shooting.

sounds good, but near impossible in practice because of vulcan's slow turret rotation speed when firing.

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

I can't agree more with @Truthteller. 20%buff is perfect IMO. (And less self damage)

Edited July 4, 2017 by AbsoluteAlphaZero

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

If we buff vulcan damage, then we have to increase its self heating rate, otherwise it'll be way too OP

[wolverine848 13,097]

If we buff vulcan damage, then we have to increase its self heating rate, otherwise it'll be way too OP

Typo?

 

Increase... self-damage?

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

If we buff vulcan damage, then we have to increase its self heating rate, otherwise it'll be way too OP

For the second time: At YOUR rank vulcan is Strong, slower enemies etc. At Legend ranks it isn't strong.

[TheBlackChick 319]

I've just finished a battle in which almost half of the enemy team used Vulcan...

Today, all of a sudden, I've seen a lot more Vulcans than usual, but I still don't know if it's balanced or just extremely annoying

Edited July 4, 2017 by TheBlackChick

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Yesterday ran into a battle against 4 (possibly 5 at for awhile) Magnums. When I joined at first I thought I had stumbled upon an all-Magnum team. But it turned out they had a rail, rico and flame too. Maybe some others forawhile.

 

But we had three Isidas. After we cracked their defense it was a nine minute orgy of vengence. :)

[N3tralRE 282]

Yesterday ran into a battle against 4 (possibly 5 at for awhile) Magnums. When I joined at first I thought I had stumbled upon an all-Magnum team. But it turned out they had a rail, rico and flame too. Maybe some others forawhile.

 

But we had three Isidas. After we cracked their defense it was a nine minute orgy of vengence. :)

Isida is a blessing (a curse for some), ain't it?  Sure, some say Isida's still too powerful, but as you have witnessed, Isida's power is good enough and strong enough to help cope with TO's newest red-headed stepchild.  

Edited July 5, 2017 by N3tralRE

[wolverine848 13,097]

For the second time: At YOUR rank vulcan is Strong, slower enemies etc. At Legend ranks it isn't strong.

Either M3 vulcan waaaayyy stronger than you imply, or someone named griz lee was hacking.

 

Destroyed all M3 hulls in Silence battle in 2 or 3 seconds. It had constant DD (against hulls with DA) and never stopped firing. Never overheated.

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

sounds good, but near impossible in practice because of vulcan's slow turret rotation speed when firing.

Yeah. Although... Maybe if they added an alt that increased rotation while firing at the cost of a few degrees more of vertical autoaim? It wouldn't affect gyro, just aim.

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

Either M3 vulcan waaaayyy stronger than you imply, or someone named griz lee was hacking.

 

Destroyed all M3 hulls in Silence battle in 2 or 3 seconds. It had constant DD (against hulls with DA) and never stopped firing. Never overheated.

If he had m4 3 seconds for viking m4 with DP.

[wolverine848 13,097]

If he had m4 3 seconds for viking m4 with DP.

I'm thinking it was M3.5-ish vs M3.5.   he had DP but I had DA... so they cancel.   Still 3 seconds?

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

I'm thinking it was M3.5-ish vs M3.5.   he had DP but I had DA... so they cancel.   Still 3 seconds?

Depends what hull you were wearing..

[wolverine848 13,097]

Depends what hull you were wearing..

m3 Viking 11/20.  (no Vulcan module enabled).   DA vs DD,

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

you're probably wrong about it being 3 seconds.

[wolverine848 13,097]

you're probably wrong about it being 3 seconds.

So you're saying should be > 3 seconds?

 

I can't say with 100% certainty - no time to look at a stop-watch in thick of battle.

But it seemed way faster than expected. And I was not only one in game commenting on it.

 

The fact that the Vulcan never. stopped. firing. seemed odd too - even when the Isida was not joined to it's hip.

I know fire-modules will reduce damage - but it still should overheat eventually.

 

The jist of it is I can't see how people think Vulcan is under-powered if there was no hacking.  No way it should kill faster than it did in that game.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Yeah. Although... Maybe if they added an alt that increased rotation while firing at the cost of a few degrees more of vertical autoaim? It wouldn't affect gyro, just aim.

There is an alteration for faster turning while firing, I forget what the tradeoff is because I have no use for either Vulcan alteration.