category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[ScoobyDew 11]

As long as Scooby Dew is playing, this game will be totally unbalanced.  He's too awesome for everyone.

 

Signed,

 Tired of Losing to Scooby Dew

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

As long as Scooby Dew is playing, this game will be totally unbalanced.  He's too awesome for everyone.

 

Signed,

 Tired of Losing to Scooby Dew

Lol. Ok?

[Maf 32,300]

I spent alot of time and money developing the hammer turret. Many people complained that it was overpowered so adjustments were made. Now I find it to be the weakest....can't even get more than one shot off against most other turrets. Very displeased with Tanki for doing this and am about to abandon this game for good along with several of my friends.

Topic merged

[ArmyDoc 4]

Best and Worst Efficiency Combos, Turrets in need of Buffs

 

 

There are several turrets I believe need to be "buffed."  In addition, there are many turrets that get what I believe is an unwarranted "bad rap" on the discussion boards.  

 

It is August 9, 2017.  I have just finished scouring through the week's top 100 most efficient players (all Legends).  I did this to get an idea what the very most efficient tank combinations were (or weren't).  The most efficient should rise to the very top.   

 

Following is the data for the most frequent turrets, hulls and protections amongst the top 100 most efficient players this week, followed by a short discussion.  These are all M3 combos, I assume fully (or nearly fully) maxed out.

 

Most Common Turret and Hull of top 100 players:

 

#1:  Smoky.  24.  (9 Viking, 6 Titan, 5 Mammoth, 2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Hunter)

#2:  Railgun.  21.   (6 Hornet, 6 Viking, 4 Wasp, 3 Titan, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#3:  Twins.  10.  (6 Mammoth, 3 Titan, 1 Viking)

#4:  Thunder.  7.  (3 Viking, 1 Hunter, 1 Dictator, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

#5-7:  Hammer 6.  (3 Viking, 2 Titan, 1 Dictator)  

          Vulcan 6.  (2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Viking, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

          Firebird 6.  (3 Wasp, 1 Viking, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#8-10:  Isida 5.  (4 Viking, 1 Mammoth)

            Ricochet 5.  (2 Viking, 2 Mammoth, 1 Titan)

            Shaft 5.  (3 Viking, 2 Mammoth)

#11:  Freeze 4.  (3 Viking, 1 Dictator)

#12:  Striker 1.  (1 Viking)

#13:  Magnum 0.

 

Most Common Protection of  100 most efficient players:

 

#1:  Thunder:  64%

#2:  Railgun:  59%

#3:  Firebird: 43%

#4:  Shaft:  36%

#5-6:  Ricochet and Twins:  Both 33%

#7:  Freeze:  27%

#8:  Isida 22%

#9:  Hammer:  20%

#10:  Smoky:  16%

#11:  Vulcan:  10%

#12-13:  Striker and Magnum :  BOTH 0.0%!!!

 

So what does all of this mean?  As we don't know the relative frequency that these turrets, hulls and protections are owned and used by all Legends and all other players, or these Legends this particular week, it is hard to make definitive conclusions.  Also, it is not exactly clear to all of us how the efficiency numbers are arrived at.  Despite this, to me the above data suggests Magnum and Striker both need to be Buffed up (perhaps counter-intuitive, yet objectively supported above).  Despite the vast paucity of protection against these two turrets, they still are not showing up on the leader board (Striker only once, Magnum not at all).  Isida is frequently accused of being OP.  The data above would suggest otherwise.  Railgun is probably the strongest turret.  Even though it came in slightly below Smoky for frequency of being most common turret with the most efficient players, far more players have protection against Railgun than Smoky.  

 

There are many other potential conclusions, etc. that can be made from this as well.  For example, Mammoth/Twins appears to be the strongest Twins combo, Viking/Isida also appears to be the strongest Isida combo. 

 

It is common to use our subjective and anecdotal experiences to shape opinions.  However, regardless of what individual stats of each turret, etc. may show, the end result isn't always what one might think would intuitively be the case.  It is perhaps more frightening to be killed up close by an Isida, Freeze or Firebird, or instantly or near instantly by Striker, Shaft or Magnum.  Perhaps that is why these Turrets in particular appear to be less prominent on the leaderboards above.  Perhaps they have been excessively nerfed.  Particulary Magnum and Striker (both very difficult to use and prone to being killed by other players).

 

I think this is important to consider.  In my mind, always important to use objective data rather than subjective data before making rebalancing decisions, etc.    

Edited August 10, 2017 by BlackWasp777
added your title

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

 

Topic merged

[I-Hate-Druggers 192]

I'm not sure if this was intentional but titan appears to be faster AND has more health AND has more pushing power. Mammoth is cheaper but at m3 mammoth is more expensive and more worse than titan m3. Surely this is a overlooked by the developers. Maybe titan can have more health and mammoth could be faster! It's rather bizarre that one hull completely outclasses the other.  :huh:

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

 

There may be some issues below M4, but at M4 level both hulls have the same HP and Mammoth has higher mass to compensate for Titan's speed and pushing power.

[TheBlackChick 319]

 

I expect them to give Mammoth a better overdrive thinking that it will actually make up for it, but for people like me that's still almost nothing. Why would I pay extra crystals for that if I barely play battles with overdrive enabled?

 

Mammoth has higher mass to compensate for Titan's speed and pushing power.

In which way does this compensate? Does it make Mammoth harder to be pushed?

Edited August 12, 2017 by TheBlackChick

[DontBeGreedy 26]

 

In which way does this compensate? Does it make Mammoth harder to be pushed?

lesser impact force, but you're right, mammoth is likely to get a good overdrive, and titan will get a more or less useless one

[TheBlackChick 319]

lesser impact force

So again, a slight advantage for players who play mostly non-pro battles. If I am truely correct about the OD, I assume the hull choice (Titan vs Mammoth) will depend a lot on the type of battles people preffer so that may get things just right in terms of balance. 

[I-Hate-Druggers 192]

I found a bug, I was using mammy and a hornet managed to push me.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

 

Best and Worst Efficiency Combos, Turrets in need of Buffs

 

 

There are several turrets I believe need to be "buffed."  In addition, there are many turrets that get what I believe is an unwarranted "bad rap" on the discussion boards.  

 

It is August 9, 2017.  I have just finished scouring through the week's top 100 most efficient players (all Legends).  I did this to get an idea what the very most efficient tank combinations were (or weren't).  The most efficient should rise to the very top.   

 

Following is the data for the most frequent turrets, hulls and protections amongst the top 100 most efficient players this week, followed by a short discussion.  These are all M3 combos, I assume fully (or nearly fully) maxed out.

 

Most Common Turret and Hull of top 100 players:

 

#1:  Smoky.  24.  (9 Viking, 6 Titan, 5 Mammoth, 2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Hunter)

#2:  Railgun.  21.   (6 Hornet, 6 Viking, 4 Wasp, 3 Titan, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#3:  Twins.  10.  (6 Mammoth, 3 Titan, 1 Viking)

#4:  Thunder.  7.  (3 Viking, 1 Hunter, 1 Dictator, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

#5-7:  Hammer 6.  (3 Viking, 2 Titan, 1 Dictator)  

          Vulcan 6.  (2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Viking, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

          Firebird 6.  (3 Wasp, 1 Viking, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#8-10:  Isida 5.  (4 Viking, 1 Mammoth)

            Ricochet 5.  (2 Viking, 2 Mammoth, 1 Titan)

            Shaft 5.  (3 Viking, 2 Mammoth)

#11:  Freeze 4.  (3 Viking, 1 Dictator)

#12:  Striker 1.  (1 Viking)

#13:  Magnum 0.

 

Most Common Protection of  100 most efficient players:

 

#1:  Thunder:  64%

#2:  Railgun:  59%

#3:  Firebird: 43%

#4:  Shaft:  36%

#5-6:  Ricochet and Twins:  Both 33%

#7:  Freeze:  27%

#8:  Isida 22%

#9:  Hammer:  20%

#10:  Smoky:  16%

#11:  Vulcan:  10%

#12-13:  Striker and Magnum :  BOTH 0.0%!!!

 

So what does all of this mean?  As we don't know the relative frequency that these turrets, hulls and protections are owned and used by all Legends and all other players, or these Legends this particular week, it is hard to make definitive conclusions.  Also, it is not exactly clear to all of us how the efficiency numbers are arrived at.  Despite this, to me the above data suggests Magnum and Striker both need to be Buffed up (perhaps counter-intuitive, yet objectively supported above).  Despite the vast paucity of protection against these two turrets, they still are not showing up on the leader board (Striker only once, Magnum not at all).  Isida is frequently accused of being OP.  The data above would suggest otherwise.  Railgun is probably the strongest turret.  Even though it came in slightly below Smoky for frequency of being most common turret with the most efficient players, far more players have protection against Railgun than Smoky.  

 

There are many other potential conclusions, etc. that can be made from this as well.  For example, Mammoth/Twins appears to be the strongest Twins combo, Viking/Isida also appears to be the strongest Isida combo. 

 

It is common to use our subjective and anecdotal experiences to shape opinions.  However, regardless of what individual stats of each turret, etc. may show, the end result isn't always what one might think would intuitively be the case.  It is perhaps more frightening to be killed up close by an Isida, Freeze or Firebird, or instantly or near instantly by Striker, Shaft or Magnum.  Perhaps that is why these Turrets in particular appear to be less prominent on the leaderboards above.  Perhaps they have been excessively nerfed.  Particulary Magnum and Striker (both very difficult to use and prone to being killed by other players).

 

I think this is important to consider.  In my mind, always important to use objective data rather than subjective data before making rebalancing decisions, etc.    

 

 

 

I appreciate all your hard work but this is not a good methodology to determine game balance. These are teh 100 Freaks of Nature. You don't balance a game based on what happens in an extreme small minority. You balance it based on the experiences of the fat part of the player distribution curve.

 

Also Tanki has the raw data. on all players with all variations. that is what you use the raw data..

Edited August 12, 2017 by LittleWillie

[wolverine848 13,097]

Best and Worst Efficiency Combos, Turrets in need of Buffs

 

 

There are several turrets I believe need to be "buffed."  In addition, there are many turrets that get what I believe is an unwarranted "bad rap" on the discussion boards.  

 

It is August 9, 2017.  I have just finished scouring through the week's top 100 most efficient players (all Legends).  I did this to get an idea what the very most efficient tank combinations were (or weren't).  The most efficient should rise to the very top.   

 

Following is the data for the most frequent turrets, hulls and protections amongst the top 100 most efficient players this week, followed by a short discussion.  These are all M3 combos, I assume fully (or nearly fully) maxed out.

 

 

Most Common Turret and Hull of top 100 players:

 

#1:  Smoky.  24.  (9 Viking, 6 Titan, 5 Mammoth, 2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Hunter)

#2:  Railgun.  21.   (6 Hornet, 6 Viking, 4 Wasp, 3 Titan, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#3:  Twins.  10.  (6 Mammoth, 3 Titan, 1 Viking)

#4:  Thunder.  7.  (3 Viking, 1 Hunter, 1 Dictator, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

#5-7:  Hammer 6.  (3 Viking, 2 Titan, 1 Dictator)  

          Vulcan 6.  (2 Dictator, 1 Hornet, 1 Viking, 1 Titan, 1 Mammoth)

          Firebird 6.  (3 Wasp, 1 Viking, 1 Dictator, 1 Mammoth)

#8-10:  Isida 5.  (4 Viking, 1 Mammoth)

            Ricochet 5.  (2 Viking, 2 Mammoth, 1 Titan)

            Shaft 5.  (3 Viking, 2 Mammoth)

#11:  Freeze 4.  (3 Viking, 1 Dictator)

#12:  Striker 1.  (1 Viking)

#13:  Magnum 0.

 

Most Common Protection of  100 most efficient players:

 

#1:  Thunder:  64%

#2:  Railgun:  59%

#3:  Firebird: 43%

#4:  Shaft:  36%

#5-6:  Ricochet and Twins:  Both 33%

#7:  Freeze:  27%

#8:  Isida 22%

#9:  Hammer:  20%

#10:  Smoky:  16%

#11:  Vulcan:  10%

#12-13:  Striker and Magnum :  BOTH 0.0%!!!

 

So what does all of this mean?  As we don't know the relative frequency that these turrets, hulls and protections are owned and used by all Legends and all other players, or these Legends this particular week, it is hard to make definitive conclusions.  Also, it is not exactly clear to all of us how the efficiency numbers are arrived at.  Despite this, to me the above data suggests Magnum and Striker both need to be Buffed up (perhaps counter-intuitive, yet objectively supported above).  Despite the vast paucity of protection against these two turrets, they still are not showing up on the leader board (Striker only once, Magnum not at all).  Isida is frequently accused of being OP.  The data above would suggest otherwise.  Railgun is probably the strongest turret.  Even though it came in slightly below Smoky for frequency of being most common turret with the most efficient players, far more players have protection against Railgun than Smoky.  

 

There are many other potential conclusions, etc. that can be made from this as well.  For example, Mammoth/Twins appears to be the strongest Twins combo, Viking/Isida also appears to be the strongest Isida combo. 

 

It is common to use our subjective and anecdotal experiences to shape opinions.  However, regardless of what individual stats of each turret, etc. may show, the end result isn't always what one might think would intuitively be the case.  It is perhaps more frightening to be killed up close by an Isida, Freeze or Firebird, or instantly or near instantly by Striker, Shaft or Magnum.  Perhaps that is why these Turrets in particular appear to be less prominent on the leaderboards above.  Perhaps they have been excessively nerfed.  Particulary Magnum and Striker (both very difficult to use and prone to being killed by other players).

 

I think this is important to consider.  In my mind, always important to use objective data rather than subjective data before making rebalancing decisions, etc.    

 

 

Buff magnum?  LOL. 

 

How are you determining the efficiency/OP-ness of those specific turrets?

 

Reason for striker and Magnum not being leader-board is that they are newest turrets.  Takes a Loooong time to buy them and then upgrade to M4, then play them enough hours to count.

[O.TIGER.O 0]

hello.

 

tanki online why is the transitions between m0s m1s and m2s so short?

 why is the transitions between m2s and m3s so big?

 will u reset the whole garage, because some turrets are not so fine as before and it is not balanced now and.

and will u also remove all product kits. and add new kits to the game and make it balanced why we can buy all m3 at the same rank? it is so stupid

[Kurt_KurtDGreat 2,259]

 

Hey ;)

 

Well, I guess the transition between M2 and M3s is huge because well, M3s cost a lot more :p but in my opinion, I don't think the transition is that big... It could be that you found the transition between M1s and M0s very small since most of the players there don't yet know the best way to save crystals or know how to upgrade etc... so most of them stayed with M0 for a while. Also don't forget, at that rank, you can play with a lot more different ranks than you could have at the M1 ranks.

 

Which turrets exactly do you think are unbalanced?

 

The update which made all M3s available at the same rank was done in order to minimize the difference between certain turrets, since this was better since the ultimate aim is to make sure all turrets are equally powerful, and thus having them at different ranks didn't much make sense. My guess of why the rest aren't the same (M0s were available at recruit, they just recently got changed too) is because they cost a lot less to MU than an M3, so if the turret unlocks early, it is probably cheaper, therefore giving you more chance to MU it.

 

Just my guess tho ^ :)

[LittleWillie 3,199]

hello.

 

tanki online why is the transitions between m0s m1s and m2s so short?

 why is the transitions between m2s and m3s so big?

 will u reset the whole garage, because some turrets are not so fine as before and it is not balanced now and.

and will u also remove all product kits. and add new kits to the game and make it balanced why we can buy all m3 at the same rank? it is so stupid

You are describing a significant part of the root case problem in this game. The experience growth progression and the in-game cost structure are both broken. Pace pf progress is measured by time required to reach the next milestone and the benefit earned. By this measure the pace of progress in Tanki is glacial. 

 

But you asked why this broken system continues to exist. My guess is Tanki Company is afraid they'd lose most of their customers if they what it'd take to fix all that.

[Nicola2015_superman 2]

Hmm... I think the new turret Magnum needs it's damage to be nerfed or the splash damage to be nerfed.

[TakeAShower 300]

Light hulls on higher ranks loose their sagnificance due to the fact that people aim better. They need a boost in speed of about 8% to make them harder to hit. No HP nerf necessary. Heavy hulls also are a bit underpowered right now. A heavy hull, when using a high damage-per-second (DPS) turret such as vulcan, striker or twins with a small self damage protection (about 25%) should beat a firebird freeze or Isida in head to head combat. However, if approached from behind, this would not happen (possibly a nerf in high DPS weapons' turret turning speed?) Due to the hp nerf, and the nerf on drugs, Mammoth and Titan have lost their sagnificance on the battlefield. What I am suggesting is increasing HP at M4 to 4300, and nerfing speed by about 5%. Please listen to this, mods. I used to use the Mammoth all the time. Now I prefer Viking, and I am sure many people agree with this. A rail with High-caliber ammo and DD can spawn kill Mammoths and Titans of the same modification. This is not fair. PLEASE rebalance heavy and light hulls.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hmm... I think the new turret Magnum needs it's damage to be nerfed or the splash damage to be nerfed.

And a faster reload time if this happens. ;)

 

But Srsly, if it needs a nerf, I can find a better way to nerf it than just a damage or splash damage reduction.

Edited August 20, 2017 by DieselPlatinum

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

 

I'd have to disagree with you. Heavy hulls can be extremely hard to kill, especially if they have a good protection module from your turret and use DA a lot. At the same time, they need some mobility to be able to escape heavy fire and move into cover, but what you're suggesting will make it even more difficult for them to do that, so the extra HP won't make the hull better since it will take longer to escape fire and will therefore still be an easy kill. Doing this would only worsen the dynamics of the game.

 

As for Wasp, it's a valid suggestion but I think that it's pretty balanced now. Its advantage is not that it's hard to hit, but rather that it's agile and can escape quickly and avoid taking too much damage.

[Kurt_KurtDGreat 2,259]

Maf

 

Explain something to me. My mamy is full m4 20/20. I had thunder on board ful 20/20. A titan was able to push me all over the place on a couple of gold box drops. I had dd, da, AND speed on. How is that possible? Or is that another tanki "bug" or cheat?

Please, do get some type of recording software, your claims are a bit weird and technically impossible if it wasn't for lags, or hack :p Anyway, it could be that Titan was possibly M4 too, was he using speed? Also, I assume there were a ton of people next to the gold drop, so in that case everyone opposite to you could have contributed to you being pushed away, so that's another factor to take into consideration ;)

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Gameplay is so much harder at the legend rank. Often, the only way to win is to hope that you get on the stronger team...

Edited August 24, 2017 by ghost-guns

[LittleWillie 3,199]

And a faster reload time if this happens. ;)

 

But Srsly, if it needs a nerf, I can find a better way to nerf it than just a damage or splash damage reduction.

My suggestion would be a delay like the Vulcan 'spin=up' delay. When the Magnum user presses space bar the spin-up period begins, say 0.5 to 1.0 seconds delay, and only then can the magnum actually fire. This would prevent the tap-space-bar-over-and-over-until-a-shell-falls-out-your-barrel crap. That would indeed put Magnum at a disadvatnage when faced with close opponents.  

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

My suggestion would be a delay like the Vulcan 'spin=up' delay. When the Magnum user presses space bar the spin-up period begins, say 0.5 to 1.0 seconds delay, and only then can the magnum actually fire. This would prevent the tap-space-bar-over-and-over-until-a-shell-falls-out-your-barrel crap. That would indeed put Magnum at a disadvatnage when faced with close opponents.

 

No, too lame, I have a better idea. But I won't even so much as post it until isida gets the nerf it deserves ;)

[Kurt_KurtDGreat 2,259]

Kurt

 

My claims are everyday things if you had open eyes. I do not lie. It is not basically impossible it happened multiple times with no one behind me or him. If you need video help yourself.

 

And I addressed my question to maf. Who are you supposed to be?

Nah, I'm not saying you're a liar, just saying I don't see such things on a daily basis, and maybe you can show them to us :) If you want to make a change, give us proof and we'll let our lovely Battle Mods do the job :D

 

And yes, since you didn't post it in PM, and left here in a discussion topic, I wanted to weigh in my thoughts too :)