category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Skills.n.Girls 767]

How can Magnum deal any damage if it doesn't hit anything?

Don't ask me...  :wacko:

 

 

 

 

[Hez_DarkLord 103]

Don't ask me...  :wacko:

 

 

 

 

The blast radius could perhaps be smaller... Nevertheless, I don't see too many magnums in a battle, usually just 1 or 2 per team. There are much more prevalent turrets that could use tweaking. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Hez_DarkLord

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

The blast radius could perhaps be smaller... Nevertheless, I don't see too many magnums in a battle, usually just 1 or 2 per team. There are much more prevalent turrets that could use tweaking. 

Even though 1-2 per team sounds like a small estimate given what other players say, that's still more than proportional.

 

There are 13 turrets in this game.  Maps average at around 10 players. The math doesn't check out. ;)

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

As you may already know, Freeze in overall is balanced. What Freeze needs to have is only a 10% buff to its freeze effect. There are no needs to modify any other parameter because they are all balanced.

 

The freeze effect for modifications are as follows according to my perspective point of view:

 

1. M0 freeze effect - OK

 

2. M1 freeze effect - OK

 

3. M2 freeze effect - OK

 

4. M3 freeze effect - needs 10% buff for freeze effect

 

5. M4 freeze effect - also needs 10% buff for freeze effect

 

The image below shows the current freeze (Damage) effect for M4 Freeze:

 

 

As you can see, there is no freeze effect showing up in the screenprint, but from what I know is that Freeze needs a 10% buff to its freezing effect because M3 or M4 Freeze players, when freezing enemies, the enemies can still turn their turrets round and kill you.

 

Apart from this tiny issue, everything else is OK.

 

Thank you.

[Maf 32,300]

As you may already know, Freeze in overall is balanced. What Freeze needs to have is only a 10% buff to its freeze effect.

Topic merged

[omarhero1 401]

Enemy isn't supposed to go completely immobile once you touch them with your spray, the freezing effect simply builds up till it reaches max.

The turret is fairly balanced in my opinion otherwise it wouldn't been used excessively in all small maps.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Enemy isn't supposed to go completely immobile once you touch them with your spray, the freezing effect simply builds up till it reaches max.

The turret is fairly balanced in my opinion otherwise it wouldn't been used excessively in all small maps.

I would counter that.  Seems like there's no point to the freezing effect if an enemy can follow you circle-strafing around them.  For medium/heavies sure, the hull slowdown effect may be adequate, but for lights it's not.

 

It's used on small maps because it isn't that good on medium-large ones.  What will happen now that all maps are 10 v 10?

[wolverine848 13,097]

I would counter that.  Seems like there's no point to the freezing effect if an enemy can follow you circle-strafing around them.  For medium/heavies sure, the hull slowdown effect may be adequate, but for lights it's not.

 

It's used on small maps because it isn't that good on medium-large ones.  What will happen now that all maps are 10 v 10?

Bought the Blizzard kit on my lower account.  It freezes everything. Light, medium, heavy - EVERYTHING.  Has one MU on it.

 

If I ever approach enemy from side (or even better) behind they are done. None of them had a chance to turn around or respond.

 

Of course there's not a lot of protections ~ W01 ranks, but it currently wreaks havoc on enemy. If I hide near the flag it would take a 2 or 3 : 1 ratio for enemy to have half a chance to escape with flag.  Did an Osa CTF and we won 9-0.  I think I killed 38 enemies that tried to take the flag.

 

I knew the turret would be decent, but I am surprised by how effective it is.  And this is my first time ever using it.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I do not think it is a design flaw that tanks can defeat Freeze from time to time at short range. Many more times than not Freeze wins when it gets the jump on you. I used to use a Freeze module but now I figure... I'm dead anyway. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I do not think it is a design flaw that tanks can defeat Freeze from time to time at short range. Many more times than not Freeze wins when it gets the jump on you. I used to use a Freeze module but now I figure... I'm dead anyway. 

Freeze is awesome on large-map CTF battles.  Most enemy tanks are using ranged-turret modules because of the many shafts/rails/thunders.

 

So they are stuck (pun intended) when my freeze ambushes them as they try to escape with the flag.

Similar to Isida, Speed is the best power-up as it allows you to close the distance quickly.

[Hez_DarkLord 103]

Freeze is awesome on large-map CTF battles.  Most enemy tanks are using ranged-turret modules because of the many shafts/rails/thunders.

 

So they are stuck (pun intended) when my freeze ambushes them as they try to escape with the flag.

Similar to Isida, Speed is the best power-up as it allows you to close the distance quickly.

Sure but with my vulcan/titan. I will see freezes' coming from a mile away and mow them down before they even reach me. Even if they somehow do close the gap, turning the hull with my turret compensates for the initial freeze and by that time the freeze is dead.  ^_^

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I knew the turret would be decent, but I am surprised by how effective it is.  And this is my first time ever using it.

At M1 it is strong if not overpowered. Not at M4.

 

I do not think it is a design flaw that tanks can defeat Freeze from time to time at short range. Many more times than not Freeze wins when it gets the jump on you. I used to use a Freeze module but now I figure... I'm dead anyway. 

Wait until you are M4.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Well to be fair I don't think I've used my Freeze module sine it was about 15% - 20%. I swapped to a medium range module a good while ago.Maybe I should try it again.

 

I did look for a Freeze module just this morning. A pair were defending their flag. But that account does not own one. :)

[wolverine848 13,097]

Almost every game in upper ranks this weekend were blow-outs.. 6-0, 7-0, 8-0 and 9-0.

Each of those winning teams had AT LEAST 3 Magnums. And in most cases each Magnum had an isida attached to it's bottom.

 

The game is getting B-O-R-I-N-G.

[Hez_DarkLord 103]

Almost every game in upper ranks this weekend were blow-outs.. 6-0, 7-0, 8-0 and 9-0.

Each of those winning teams had AT LEAST 3 Magnums. And in most cases each Magnum had an isida attached to it's bottom.

 

The game is getting B-O-R-I-N-G.

Thats why you stay in xp/bp ;)

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

Thats why you stay in xp/bp ;)

I enjoy playing xpbp and all, but whats the point of all the garage if you are gonna restrict yourself to 1 turret and 2 hulls?

 

After a few games of xpbp, it quickly gets stale for me as i like to change my turret/modules between games to get a fresh experience every time. But with the addition of magnum, normal games are all blowouts, leaving me in a void where no gamemode is fun to play for a sustained period of time. As a result, combined with irl things, my tanki playtime has slowly dwindled down to just doing missions and logging off.

[Tani_S 736]

 

 

So I just feel like posting this here.

This is my personal current rating of all turrets, from strongest to weakest. Applicable to Legend ranks.

 

Magnum              

Hammer           

Twins                    

Isida               

Smoky             

Ricochet           

Firebird             

Railgun            

Freeze                 

Shaft              

Thunder                  

Striker

Vulcan

 

What do you think?

 

 

My list goes like this:

1. Magnum
2. Rico
3. Twins
4. Isida
5. Hammer
6. Shaft
7. Fire
8. Thunder
9. Freeze
10. Smoky
11. Vulcan
12. Rail (unaltered)
13. Striker

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

My list goes like this:

1. Magnum
2. Rico
3. Twins
4. Isida
5. Hammer
6. Shaft
7. Fire
8. Thunder
9. Freeze
10. Smoky
11. Vulcan
12. Rail (unaltered)
13. Striker

Watched quite a bit of the Clan Championship X.

 

Striker- @Oufa used Titan-Striker for a while on Massacre but consider- Massacre is one of the best maps for striker since there aren't much obstacles or cover.  Consider also that it was CP mode and almost everyone was using heavy hulls.  Even then it didn't stand out that much.  You can see why it's weak.

 

Vulcan- you could pretty much only see them in Parma battles.  Mows down enemies trying to cross the vulnerable center area but not useful for much else.  When the Twins alteration enables it to shoot across the map Vulcan feels like a tickle teddy in comparison.    

 

@Dynamite used Ricochet on repeating Forest Rounds, both supplies on and off.  Seemed a bit underwhelming, although I don’t know if the prevalence of Ricochet protection accounted for this.    Always lost to Smoky and Thunder at range since Rico has that target delay and usually lost to Twins and firebird at close range.  But overall I probably expected too much which contributed to my disappointment with an otherwise decent turret.

 

Twins- nasty, nasty, nasty.  Put the alterations on and it is even better.  The only issue is that protections are everywhere.

 

Smoky- again, I watched the_best_boy use it to great effect.   Most light format battles Smoky wreaked havoc on those railguns when they were warming up.  But in the standard battles, medium format, it lost its luster.  In drugs on battles the Time to Kill is simply too low because Smoky’s greatest asset, the impact, is more effective against the rarer light hulls.

 

Freeze- far, far too underwhelming.  Used for more damage output than anything else.  Sure, it slows down Vikings and Titans trying to escape with the flag- if they try and get the flag first.  Most of the time the freeze is simply targeted first and killed by turrets with more range.    Quite common in the Parma CP but that’s probably only to counter the many, many Isidas hiding behind Titans.  

 

Firebird- Overall, quite impressive.  Performs about average, nice and balanced.  

 

Magnum- some Wasp/Magnums darting through the trees on Forest.   Of course they were running around- not camping, because Magnum is even better than Thunder for offensive combat, let alone artillery roleplay.  Did not seem to have a huge effect on the battle (perhaps because the clans were so coordinated) but racked up a lot of surprise kills.

 

Railgun- solid turret.  Like LittleWillie said, nice and balanced.  Good even in heavy supplies battles since the penetration can damage the healing Isidas.

 

Isida- the presence and skill of the Isida is a great indicator of how well the team will perform in a battle.   Where the turret underperformed it was mostly the fault of the light hull it was mounted on.  

 

Hammer- quite common.  Alterations seem to be a must since the pros outweigh the cons.  Lost some of its spark because there were almost no light hulls.  Usually the Hammer player lost when they were in close combat- but very effective if they could keep at a medium range- Peek-a-boo on forest, for example.   Again, seemed weaker than it was due to the Hammer modules everywhere.

 

Shaft- saw a couple Shafts on Parma.  Extremely useful if the other team was almost exclusively short-medium ranged turrets mounted on Vikings that the Shaft could one-shot.  Arcade mode almost became primary mode of fire since players are skilled at avoiding splash.  Otherwise, gameplay progressed too fast and the Shaft was targeted and clubbed as an easy target.

 

Thunder- with the no-splash alt it is a decent mid-range turret, almost like a strong Smoky at low ranks.  With splash it is generally too easy to take down.

Edited December 4, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[C.O.N.Q.U.E.R.O.R 3,845]

Railgun- solid turret.  Like LittleWillie said, nice and balanced.  Good even in heavy supplies battles since the penetration can damage the healing Isidas.

I strongly disagree with this. The fact that it often takes 3 hits to take down a Viking, sometimes 4, is completely ridiculous. Plus, it can barely even two-shot a Wasp now. The weapon is a faint ghost of what it used to be.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

Watched quite a bit of the Clan Championship X.

Striker- @Oufa used Titan-Striker for a while on Massacre but consider- Massacre is one of the best maps for striker since there aren't much obstacles or cover.  Consider also that it was CP mode and almost everyone was using heavy hulls.  Even then it didn't stand out that much.  You can see why it's weak.

 

Vulcan- you could pretty much only see them in Parma battles.  Mows down enemies trying to cross the vulnerable center area but not useful for much else.  When the Twins alteration enables it to shoot across the map Vulcan feels like a tickle teddy in comparison.    

 

@Dynamite used Ricochet on repeating Forest Rounds, both supplies on and off.  Seemed a bit underwhelming, although I don’t know if the prevalence of Ricochet protection accounted for this.    Always lost to Smoky and Thunder at range since Rico has that target delay and usually lost to Twins and firebird at close range.  But overall I probably expected too much which contributed to my disappointment with an otherwise decent turret.

 

Twins- nasty, nasty, nasty.  Put the alterations on and it is even better.  The only issue is that protections are everywhere.

 

Smoky- again, I watched the_best_boy use it to great effect.   Most light format battles Smoky wreaked havoc on those railguns when they were warming up.  But in the standard battles, medium format, it lost its luster.  In drugs on battles the Time to Kill is simply too low because Smoky’s greatest asset, the impact, is more effective against the rarer light hulls.

 

Freeze- far, far too underwhelming.  Used for more damage output than anything else.  Sure, it slows down Vikings and Titans trying to escape with the flag- if they try and get the flag first.  Most of the time the freeze is simply targeted first and killed by turrets with more range.    Quite common in the Parma CP but that’s probably only to counter the many, many Isidas hiding behind Titans.  

 

Firebird- Overall, quite impressive.  Performs about average, nice and balanced.  

 

Magnum- some Wasp/Magnums darting through the trees on Forest.   Of course they were running around- not camping, because Magnum is even better than Thunder for offensive combat, let alone artillery roleplay.  Did not seem to have a huge effect on the battle (perhaps because the clans were so coordinated) but racked up a lot of surprise kills.

 

Railgun- solid turret.  Like LittleWillie said, nice and balanced.  Good even in heavy supplies battles since the penetration can damage the healing Isidas.

 

Isida- the presence and skill of the Isida is a great indicator of how well the team will perform in a battle.   Where the turret underperformed it was mostly the fault of the light hull it was mounted on.  

 

Hammer- quite common.  Alterations seem to be a must since the pros outweigh the cons.  Lost some of its spark because there were almost no light hulls.  Usually the Hammer player lost when they were in close combat- but very effective if they could keep at a medium range- Peek-a-boo on forest, for example.   Again, seemed weaker than it was due to the Hammer modules everywhere.

 

Shaft- saw a couple Shafts on Parma.  Extremely useful if the other team was almost exclusively short-medium ranged turrets mounted on Vikings that the Shaft could one-shot.  Arcade mode almost became primary mode of fire since players are skilled at avoiding splash.  Otherwise, gameplay progressed too fast and the Shaft was targeted and clubbed as an easy target.

 

Thunder- with the no-splash alt it is a decent mid-range turret, almost like a strong Smoky at low ranks.  With splash it is generally too easy to take down.

 

"Forest Rounds"?  The map Forest?

 

Ricco best suited for a map with right-angled walls and tunnels.  Smoky stands no chance vs Ricco on those maps.

Edited December 4, 2017 by wolverine848

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

 

Watched quite a bit of the Clan Championship X.

 

Striker- @Oufa used Titan-Striker for a while on Massacre but consider- Massacre is one of the best maps for striker since there aren't much obstacles or cover.  Consider also that it was CP mode and almost everyone was using heavy hulls.  Even then it didn't stand out that much.  You can see why it's weak.

i watched all of championship x too.

 

just wondering, are you an oufa fanboy? i can't understand why else would anyone judge a turret based on how he used it because from what I saw outside of xp/bp battles he was always arguably the worst player in every other battle.

 

There was other players who used striker very well.

 

 

 

and... I'm pretty sure it wasn't because magnums were better than thunder for offensive combat... rather, it was because it was limited to not more than 1 of fire, freeze and isida and not more than 2 of each of the rest. also, there was a limited number of medium hulls, so it's better to mount those medium hulls with turrets better for flag stealing/defense/guard. and when on a wasp of course you run around.

 

outside of forest i saw very few magnums in other maps and they were pretty useless, they were killing as much of their teammates as their enemies half the time.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

outside of forest i saw very few magnums in other maps and they were pretty useless, they were killing as much of their teammates as their enemies half the time.

Exactly.  Since friendly fire was on, Magnum was a risky turret to use and yet players were still using it in clan wars.  Just shows how OP the turret is in standard battles.

i watched all of championship x too.

 

just wondering, are you an oufa fanboy? i can't understand why else would anyone judge a turret based on how he used it because from what I saw outside of xp/bp battles he was always arguably the worst player in every other battle.

No, I'm not, couldn't care less about youtubers.  He was the only one I saw using Striker and getting a ton of score with it.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Exactly. Since friendly fire was on, Magnum was a risky turret to use and yet players were still using it in clan wars. Just shows how OP the turret is in standard battles.

No, I'm not, couldn't care less about youtubers. He was the only one I saw using Striker and getting a ton of score with it.

it wasnt very effective anywhere... and it did nearly as much bad than good outside of forest.

 

unlike firebird, that did lots of friendly all the time yet it was used a lot more than magnum and was a lot more effective.

 

also, if you might have noticed if there are no magnum modules that protect from smoky, railgun, thunder and vulcan. you aldo never see clans using both magnum and hammer at the same time. this is because there is a module for both. what made magnum seem more effective than it was in forest was that eveyone was protected from smoky, thunder or railgun, the 3 other most common turrets. just think, if you use magnum protection you can also either get twins protection or ricochet protection, both of which arent as common or effective in that map. but you cant be protected from smoky, thunder or railgun.

 

you should look at the grand finals cp parma, there a synergy striker took out a vavilon vulcan in 1 vs 1 when the match started and captured the point at the side first after killing him. he later wiped out multiple fully drugged enemies when they were all trying to capture a point. one moment it looked like vavilon was about to chase synergy away... next that striker killed all of them and the synergy who barely survived went back to re capture that point.

[sezze100 416]

I am mainly a vulcan user , and people coming against the vulcan will know it . Vulcans are extremely strong and once the user locks you as a target you need a new tank , to put it in the back of the list is ridiculous , but thats fine by me :P. For me everybody can use the rico/twins , easy to use my module and mow everybody to the ground . 

A rail m3/4 is strong , a m1/2 is not strong .

Freeze , wait till you see a big hull sitting at the flag with isida backing up , and try to take a flag . As attack weapon it is not so strong but as flag defender it is very good weapon .

My list :

magnum

isida

rico

twins

vulcan

thunder

smoky

freeze

fire

rail

hammer

shaft

striker

 

The middle of this group imho is very changeable , since all is depending on map / game . Striker can be very good , only i not see many people be able to master it . Shaft is way back , since its very limited in its use and at what maps you can use it in . The hammer is also behind , because of 3shot limit and range . Magnum rico and twins lead the group since the magnum is OP , rico and twins because of the really high damage and knocking people of target also . The isida is obvious since basically every game needs isida .

[splitterpoint 10,986]

Shaft- saw a couple Shafts on Parma.  Extremely useful if the other team was almost exclusively short-medium ranged turrets mounted on Vikings that the Shaft could one-shot.  Arcade mode almost became primary mode of fire since players are skilled at avoiding splash.  Otherwise, gameplay progressed too fast and the Shaft was targeted and clubbed as an easy target.

 

I agree, Parma is my favorite map right now as Shaft but you need to be on the right base. The red base has a sweet spot in the far left corner of the map. I can sit there and have a great overview of the area because the spot is slightly elevated.

 

Once they know you're there though, you could just as well change turrets because they're all going for you.

It's the Thunders that are the most annoying because of splash damage.

 

Arcade shots of Shaft are heavily underrated. They deal as much damage as a Thunder M3 with a higher firing rate.