category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[LittleWillie 3,199]

OK I guess it is time for me to do one of these lists. I'm gong to use categories rather than just a 1-13 list.

 

TURRETS (Team Modes) [Most powerful in category named 1st]

 

1]  Powerful; Gross Imbalance = Magnum

2]  Powerful; Major Imbalance = None

3]  Powerful; Substantial Imbalance = Rico, Twins

4]  Powerful, Minor Imbalance = Isida, Hammer. Shaft

 

5]  Balanced = Thunder, Fire, Railgun, Smoky 

 

6]  Lacking; Minor Imbalance = Vulcan

7]  Lacking; Substantial Imbalance =  Freeze

8]  Lacking; Major Imbalance = Striker

9]  Lacking; Gross Imbalance = None

 

General comment: Splash is too prevalent and covers too much area IMO. Likewise I thing the upper end for single-hit damage is a bit too high. Again, speaking in general. As for healing in any PvP game I have played the healing unit(s) are always the single-most important units in a team. They are inherently powerful.

 

1] Magnum is the only current example of a design completely out of step with the rest of the game. It needs a top-to-bottom design review.

 

2] Empty

 

3] Rico and Twins are both guilty of having one too many tools in the tool chest. I don't think major changes are needed. Suggest a secondary limitation be added such as loss of vertical arc or steeped damage loss over distance.

 

4] These three are notably more powerful than the rest IMO. They could probably stand for some fine-tuning. A bit less DPS for Isida. A bit shorter range for Hammer. A bit lower max damage for Shaft. But the need here is not so clear.

 

5] These turrets seem about as balanced in terms of power and useage as one could reasonably hope.Of course fine-tuning ideas could be put forth.

 

6 and 7]  Freeze and Vulcan are both deadly in certain situations and applications. But there is no denying hey are not seen in battle as often as most turrets. Each probably justifies a small boost in capability. For Vulcan perhaps a bit more down aiming arc? For Freeze maybe a wider arc to snag more enemies at once. Whatever form it takes the boost probably need be a mild one.

 

8] Despite having a rather large attack and a big splash effect Striker is still the lest-effective turret in the game right now. Accurate fire means aiming the turret correctly despite the offset launchers but also rocking the hull to aim correctly in the vertical axis. This must all be done by naked eye not with a handy digital readout as Magnum has. The salvo mode can be devastating but is rare in typical game play. This turret has plenty of strengths. But in actual use there is clearly some shortfall. It is the least-used turret in the game it seems to me.

 

9]  Empty

Edited December 8, 2017 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

5]  Freeze and Vulcan are both deadly in certain situations and applications. But there is no denying hey are not seen in battle as often as most turrets. Each probably justifies a small boost in capability. .... For Freeze maybe a wider arc to snag more enemies at once. Whatever form it takes the boost probably need be a mild one.

The reason is that Freeze is only good for slowing down flag runners. It used to be that Freeze could be used to get the jump on any turret, from behind, and kill it this way.  It was an interesting gameplay- you had to be stealthy, avoid open combat, sneak around to various drop zones, and such and such.

 

The freeze effect is simply too weak.  Freezes on light hulls are now easy kills for most turrets.  In the extremely unlikely event that they get close to you they will not be able to circle you and avoid the fire from your turret.  

 

Freeze is just a Firebird without the afterburn on anything besides a flag-camper.  Even then you often get taken out before the attack really comes- because you do not have the range to retaliate.  Snagging peek-a-boo railguns before they vanish away is almost impossible now.

 

And the map changes did not help.  Yorkshire, Serpuchov, and Rio especially need much more players. Spaces are too open and it is practically impossible to take anyone by surprise since they do not have to keep track of many opposing players.

 

Freeze on light hulls get knocked around by Smoky, Hammer, Rico, Twins, and Thunder.  DPS is effectively 2/3 or even 1/2 of what the stats say since your cone is always swinging about.  Freeze on medium hulls is restricted to defense gameplay without substantial drugging.  And since you can't circle-strafe you might as well put Firebird on your Viking.  Freeze on Heavy Hulls is simply not fast enough on the battle list maps unless you have a very good team (good luck with that.)

 

Freeze was balanced if not a little overpowered for a brief time in the last major rebalance but the devs nerfed the freezing speed to death almost immediately after.  Both Freeze and Vulcan need more than "mild tweaks". They need buffs that change the power set substantially.

Edited December 7, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Perhaps you are right but I prefer a more conservative approach. I also assume all turrets would be addressed. So Freeze and Vulcan needn't be made the next Rico, and Rico and Twins (et al) would be moving down the totem pole at the same time. A host of small changes might do more than expected in combination.

 

I don't anything about Freeze except from the receiving end. I certainly do get caught and killed. Sometimes I an fight back. Freeze is the one turret I consider using an RK while under attack, if I think that will let me kill and escape. They seem pretty potent to me. But, there is no denying they are not seen as often as most other turrets. There has to be some TLC they need. I don't know what that it exactly but I assume something is needed.

 

Vulcan actually is quite capable of producing damage so I really am conservative about boosting it. Right now nothing is as fun for me as Wasp / Vulcan so I stand to gain. But honestly it does not need much.  A bit easier to shoot downwards would make it a better fit on some maps IMO. 

 

-------

 

I edited it to a 9-point scale from 7. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by LittleWillie

[meir1 55]

the only thing i think is maybe smoky/thunder, smoky is definitely more powerful: almost as much damage, much faster firing rate, plus critical, instead of little higher damage, no critical, and splash and self damage. . . 

[meir1 55]

also magnum is much 2 powerful. . . like in edinburgh its really dumb- just shot over the wall a billion times and get a billion kills with no effort or skill whatsoever. it needs 2 be seriously rebalanced

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Perhaps you are right but I prefer a more conservative approach. I also assume all turrets would be addressed. So Freeze and Vulcan needn't be made the next Rico, and Rico and Twins (et al) would be moving down the totem pole at the same time. A host of small changes might do more than expected in combination.

 

I don't anything about Freeze except from the receiving end. I certainly do get caught and killed. Sometimes I an fight back. Freeze is the one turret I consider using an RK while under attack, if I think that will let me kill and escape. They seem pretty potent to me. But, there is no denying they are not seen as often as most other turrets. There has to be some TLC they need. I don't know what that it exactly but I assume something is needed.

 

Vulcan actually is quite capable of producing damage so I really am conservative about boosting it. Right now nothing is as fun for me as Wasp / Vulcan so I stand to gain. But honestly it does not need much.  A bit easier to shoot downwards would make it a better fit on some maps IMO. 

 

-------

 

I edited it to a 9-point scale from 7. 

Vulcan is one of those turrets that becomes much more potent with a healing isida buddy...but that does not change the base values.   You also mentioned that Twins and Rico have "one too many tools in the chest"- well I think that that is just the reward for being a mid-range turret.  Their alterations need a certain nerf though- they are almost straight buffs.

 

I would not say Isida is less OP than freeze is UP.   My opinions:

 

Move Shaft down to "balanced" or specify that these rankings are for the General (star) Ranks, not Legend.

-move Isida up to Rico and Twins level.

-move Vulcan down and Striker up so they are all sitting nice and comfortable with Freeze.

Edited December 8, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[Nicola_M 1,563]

 

 

4] These three are notably more powerful than the rest IMO. They could probably stand for some fine-tuning. A bit less DPS for Isida. A bit shorter range for Hammer. A bit lower max damage for Shaft. But the need here is not so clear.

 

What?  Isida?  Overpowered?

Hmm, that might explain why I get killed so often then.

Yes, it can heal but I have the M2 and it is not as powerful as you think.  I can sit there firing away at a some turrets, ie Firebird, and make no kill whatsoever.

And turrets like Rico and Twins, Isida has no chance.

Or pick an opponent with anything bigger than Wasp and you can sit there firing while they wait patiently, only to kill you when you reload.

 

That's why my K/D ratio is so bad - it's only good enough for healing, unless you've got an M3.

I MU'd my M2 to M2-6/10 and it's so bad it's a waste of crystals, frankly.

Or perhaps in the last two months I've noticed virtually everyone is now drugging constantly.  Isida no longer has the edge.

 

That's what made me ditch it and get the Huge Disappointment known as Twins M2.

Which made me get Freeze M2 instead.........and scored more crystals in one day on Forest CTF than I ever would have with Isida.

Either way, Isida M2 has had its day for anything other than healing, imo.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Nicola_M

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Vulcan is one of those turrets that becomes much more potent with a healing isida buddy...but that does not change the base values.  

 

I would not say Isida is less OP than freeze is UP.   My opinions:

 

Move Shaft down to "balanced" or specify that these rankings are for the General (star) Ranks, not Legend.

-move Isida up to Rico and Twins level.

-move Vulcan down and Striker up so they are all sitting nice and comfortable with Freeze.

The more categories the finer the hair is split. Everyone will sort their 1-13 differently.The middle of the pack are all mostly tied.

 

In my rating a well-balanced Isida is always going to be ranked #1. t is the only healer in a team game. It will be the most powerful in a first-among-equals sense on my list. But your sorting is just as valid. If that's teh only difference that is fairly amazing. :)

 

The take home message for TO is the two newest turrets both obviously need re-work. Magnum's case is the most pressing. Of the 11 older turrets roughly are seen to be in need of some substantial modification. The others are generally satisfactory. For me I've laid out shich are which.

Edited December 8, 2017 by LittleWillie

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

What?  Isida?  Overpowered?

Hmm, that might explain why I get killed so often then.

Yes, it can heal but I have the M2 and it is not as powerful as you think.  I can sit there firing away at a some turrets, ie Firebird, and make no kill whatsoever.

And turrets like Rico and Twins, Isida has no chance.

Or pick an opponent with anything bigger than Wasp and you can sit there firing while they wait patiently, only to kill you when you reload.

 

That's why my K/D ratio is so bad - it's only good enough for healing, unless you've got an M3.

I MU'd my M2 to M2-6/10 and it's so bad it's a waste of crystals, frankly.

Or perhaps in the last two months I've noticed virtually everyone is now drugging constantly.  Isida no longer has the edge.

 

That's what made me ditch it and get the Huge Disappointment known as Twins M2.

Which made me get Freeze M2 instead.........and scored more crystals in one day on Forest CTF than I ever would have with Isida.

Either way, Isida M2 has had its day for anything other than healing, imo.

 

I don't quite know why you can't kill firebirds- Isida outputs more damage per second.  And then you make the claim that Freeze M2 is better than Twins M2- kind of lost me there.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

I don't quite know why you can't kill firebirds- Isida outputs more damage per second.  And then you make the claim that Freeze M2 is better than Twins M2- kind of lost me there.

If you go head-on against Firebird, its flames are already taking chunks out of your hull as it approaches, before Isida's in reach.

Attacking from behind is the only option with Isida against FB.

 

With Freeze you can attack from the back or side and freeze their turret solid, so they can't turn it and fire back.  That's why I found it more effective than Twins M2, which was not nearly as good/effective as it had been on me.

Tried Twins M2 on Wolfenstein with Hornet, Dictator and Titan, wasn't impressed.

Maybe I should have picked on Wasps instead.....

Edited December 8, 2017 by Nicola_M

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

If you go head-on against Firebird, its flames are already taking chunks out of your hull as it approaches, before Isida's in reach.

Attacking from behind is the only option with Isida against FB.

Actually that is the best option.  Isida and Firebird have very similar ranges with one crucial difference: Isida's damage doesn't decrease over range while firebird's does.  So when fighting firebirds, you want to be close enough to hit them but not too close, and you will assuredly win.

With Freeze you can attack from the back or side and freeze their turret solid, so they can't turn it and fire back.  That's why I found it more effective than Twins M2, which was not nearly as good/effective as it had been on me.

Tried Twins M2 on Wolfenstein with Hornet, Dictator and Titan, wasn't impressed.

Maybe I should have picked on Wasps instead.....

Wolfenstein is less open than most maps- probably why your twins wasn't that effective.

 

"Attack from back or side and freeze their turret solid" is a myth.  I've used freeze for years.  Even attacking tanks from the back, if they react fast they can still turn their turret all the way around- the key is to move both the turret and the hull.  Heck, I've even done this against m0 freeze and we know how powerful that is.   At higher ranks the freezing effect is only good for slowing down hulls stealing your flag.

[wolverine848 13,097]

the only thing i think is maybe smoky/thunder, smoky is definitely more powerful: almost as much damage, much faster firing rate, plus critical, instead of little higher damage, no critical, and splash and self damage. . . 

Not sure why you feel this way.

At m1 smky/Thund avg damage is 332/605.  At m3 similar ratio of 472/775.

Smky may have better reload but in either case Thunder does a lot more dmg.  DPM is similar.

 

However, Thunder has splash dmg that is very useful for when multiple enemies are together.  It more than makes up for self-dmg.

And Thunder has way better long-range dmg... weak dmg is 50%.  Smoky weak dmg is 10%.

 

What?  Isida?  Overpowered?

Hmm, that might explain why I get killed so often then.

Yes, it can heal but I have the M2 and it is not as powerful as you think.  I can sit there firing away at a some turrets, ie Firebird, and make no kill whatsoever.

And turrets like Rico and Twins, Isida has no chance.

Or pick an opponent with anything bigger than Wasp and you can sit there firing while they wait patiently, only to kill you when you reload.

 

That's why my K/D ratio is so bad - it's only good enough for healing, unless you've got an M3.

I MU'd my M2 to M2-6/10 and it's so bad it's a waste of crystals, frankly.

Or perhaps in the last two months I've noticed virtually everyone is now drugging constantly.  Isida no longer has the edge.

 

That's what made me ditch it and get the Huge Disappointment known as Twins M2.

Which made me get Freeze M2 instead.........and scored more crystals in one day on Forest CTF than I ever would have with Isida.

Either way, Isida M2 has had its day for anything other than healing, imo.

Your K/D ratio is bad for two reasons... Isida in team battles is #1 target (aside from flag carrier - actually - you should kill the isida before trying for the flag carrier) and secondly because of it's short range.

 

Even at M3 Isida only has decent K/D in DM battles. In team battles where you spend half your time healing the K/D is low because... you are spending half the time healing.

 

But K/D is not a useful stat.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

 

really ? the railgun after 2016/10 re-balance are good and you guys love it ? and dislike the old one which has massive dmg and impact force ? hmmm

 

m4 Railgun min dmg is 800 and the railgun max dmg is 1600 averge shots is 1200 and down  hmm well save this info , lets go to viking m4 has HP 3000 ok lets see how rail can done viking , 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot = 3600 dmg so now we hve confrim that railgun m4 destroy a viking m4 with out Altretion in 3 shots 100% , well .... as we know in the high ranks ( Legends ) ALL ! equiep Railgun protcion which is 50% this mean the viking m4 which has 3000 Hp now doubled by 50% Hp against railgun which result 3000 x 50% = 4500 hp for viking m4 hmmm lets see how much rail need to done a viking m4 with proticon , 1200 + 1200 + 1200 + 1200 = 4800 !!! so now we confrim rail done viking m4 with protcion in 4 shots ! , hmmm !! so are you still think the new rail better than the old one ? or wait you just need to spend 100k one altretion re not even the old rail ? 

 

well well lets contune we wont stop here lets compare rail with smokey for the guyes who saing rail is better than smokey , well not this only i will compare rail m4 with smokey m1 and lets see who will be better   :) 

 

smokey m1 min dmg is 260 and the max dmg is 405 and the average of shots is 310 , well reload time is 1.7 seconds very well lets 

 

contune smokey do critical hit ever 4 shots now lets calculate it... note 1.7 = ( reload time and shot which is 310 )

 

1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + critcal hit ( 680 ) + 1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + ( 680 )  = 13.6 seconds ,

310 + 310 + 310 + 680  + 310 + 310 + 310 + 680  =   3220 dmg which able to kill m4 viking !! in 13 seconds !  

 

well well ! fantacitc from smokey as we used , and dont tell me its get weaker in distane as EVERYONE know the highest % of maps are played by players is poylgon sandbox noise hihgland and all of this maps has no very long range to digrease the smokey hits ! and even if a player played in a long range map he can get closer to hes enemy and dont forget hes critcail dmg its dont get weaker at the distane , 

 

hmmm lets go to railgun now )-: my poor nerffed gun 

 

4 sec + 4 sec + 4 sec = 12 seconds ,

 

1200 one shot + 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot = 3600 dmg  well im sure you happy that m4 railgun ! can done a m4 viking in 3 shost and 12 seconds but wait did we forget anything ? we are dont talk about a confrim shots ! ! the players might miss a shots well here you still rail are beating smokey ? well i will explain if smokey miss a shot its can reload faster than railgun a lot a lot and dont forget its very high rotating speed and auto aim super ! but for rail if its miss a shot   :( the person need to wait 4 seconds more to hit the enemy again ! which add more 4 seconds to the 12 seconds to result 16 seconds ! but for smokey its only increase 1.7 secodn it dont effect .

 

so are you still think m4 rail woth buy it and waste your crystals on this junk ? which m1 is better than its in m4 ? really ? R.I.P railgun

 

wait wait i wont stop here lets make a fair compare now ! M4 against M4 rail against smokey in m4s

 

m4 smokey min dmg is 420 and max is 640 and average is 500 ( its higher most of times not like rail its lesser most of times T_T ) 770 crit dmg

 

and reload time is 1.5 seconds lets calculate it stay here guys i know its quite long but i want shot that rail must get buff !!!!!

 

1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 12 sec

 

500 + 500 + 500 + 770 + 500 + 500 + 500 + 770 = 4540 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wowowowow m1 smokey beat m4 railgun thats very very balanced game

 

now lets talk mainly

 

so railgun is long ranged gun ? or you convert it to short weak range gun ? any way if its long range gun its need to get high dmg with out any    :angry:    :angry:  luck in its shots and its need a really high dmg coz its long range gun its used to hide and shot other and wait if its long range gun you dont need to show up your self fast you need to hide and wait the best moment and shot the enemy tank but wait if your gun is loaded with weak bullet waht can you do ? just hit him 900   :( i mean the railgun players hide there selfs then show up and bomb hit a tank with high dmg not weak dmg fast reload coz u making at like smokey now fast weak dmg ! this compeletly unfair ! unfair unfair unfair !!!!

 

any soultions ? mannnn !! there is millions of soultions milllions ! but devs dont    :angry:  think in anything either the shop $ (    :angry:    :angry:    :angry:    :( 

 

i will post the soultions in other post wait me

Why dont tanki re the old rail and replace the m2 altretion with this one from my self-made altretion https://prnt.sc/hf7oj0 and make an auto equpied altretion for xp/bp battles that change there rail stats like the current stats , its like in DR Mode ^-^ auto equpied ^-^ , why this ? Ok here some reason if the old rail back this mean slower reload ( exepct xp/bp its same as now ) slower reload mean less rail shots less rail shots mean less ( dead , dying,death idk ) Rate which mean players will have some extra seconds now to hide or attack or heall etc.

 

Let's settle this once and for all:  

 

1. Your math is wrong with protections, they halve the damage of the enemy turret, meaning Rail will do an average of 600 per shot, or 5 shots to kill a medium hull.  BUT- when you cherry-pick protections (assuming everyone has them) to make your turret look weak that means you've already lost.  

 

2. We count the first shot as happening instantly, or in Railgun's case, after the warm-up time of 1 second.  We assume both parties are fully reloaded when making these sorts of calculations.  So Rail M4 takes much less time than you think (warm-up, shoot, reload, shoot, reload, shoot) to kill a medium hull. 

 

3. Railgun's damage doesn't decrease over distance.  Smoky's goes down to a measly 10%. Make use of that, especially now that all maps have been revised for 10v10.

 

4.  Of course a Smoky will beat a Railgun if they just stand and fire at each other.  That is not how you play Railgun.  By using peek-a-boo you ensure minimum damage to yourself while the high alpha damage of railgun hits the enemy.

 

5.  Smoky's critical hit happens about once every 5 shots, not every 4 like in your calculations.  

 

6. The chance of Railgun missing a shot is the same, but now the reload is faster so it costs less.  

 

7. The math is also wrong in a couple minor places.

Edited December 11, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

really ? the railgun after 2016/10 re-balance are good and you guys love it ? and dislike the old one which has massive dmg and impact force ? hmmm

 

 

m4 Railgun min dmg is 800 and the railgun max dmg is 1600 averge shots is 1200 and down  hmm well save this info , lets go to viking m4 has HP 3000 ok lets see how rail can done viking , 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot = 3600 dmg so now we hve confrim that railgun m4 destroy a viking m4 with out Altretion in 3 shots 100% , well .... as we know in the high ranks ( Legends ) ALL ! equiep Railgun protcion which is 50% this mean the viking m4 which has 3000 Hp now doubled by 50% Hp against railgun which result 3000 x 50% = 4500 hp for viking m4 hmmm lets see how much rail need to done a viking m4 with proticon , 1200 + 1200 + 1200 + 1200 = 4800 !!! so now we confrim rail done viking m4 with protcion in 4 shots ! , hmmm !! so are you still think the new rail better than the old one ? or wait you just need to spend 100k one altretion re not even the old rail ? 

 

 

 

well well lets contune we wont stop here lets compare rail with smokey for the guyes who saing rail is better than smokey , well not this only i will compare rail m4 with smokey m1 and lets see who will be better   :) 

 

 

smokey m1 min dmg is 260 and the max dmg is 405 and the average of shots is 310 , well reload time is 1.7 seconds very well lets 

 

contune smokey do critical hit ever 4 shots now lets calculate it... note 1.7 = ( reload time and shot which is 310 )

 

1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + critcal hit ( 680 ) + 1.7 + 1.7 + 1.7 + ( 680 )  = 13.6 seconds ,

310 + 310 + 310 + 680  + 310 + 310 + 310 + 680  =   3220 dmg which able to kill m4 viking !! in 13 seconds !  

 

 

 

well well ! fantacitc from smokey as we used , and dont tell me its get weaker in distane as EVERYONE know the highest % of maps are played by players is poylgon sandbox noise hihgland and all of this maps has no very long range to digrease the smokey hits ! and even if a player played in a long range map he can get closer to hes enemy and dont forget hes critcail dmg its dont get weaker at the distane , 

 

 

hmmm lets go to railgun now )-: my poor nerffed gun 

 

4 sec + 4 sec + 4 sec = 12 seconds ,

 

1200 one shot + 1200 one shot + 1200 one shot = 3600 dmg  well im sure you happy that m4 railgun ! can done a m4 viking in 3 shost and 12 seconds but wait did we forget anything ? we are dont talk about a confrim shots ! ! the players might miss a shots well here you still rail are beating smokey ? well i will explain if smokey miss a shot its can reload faster than railgun a lot a lot and dont forget its very high rotating speed and auto aim super ! but for rail if its miss a shot   :( the person need to wait 4 seconds more to hit the enemy again ! which add more 4 seconds to the 12 seconds to result 16 seconds ! but for smokey its only increase 1.7 secodn it dont effect .

 

 

so are you still think m4 rail woth buy it and waste your crystals on this junk ? which m1 is better than its in m4 ? really ? R.I.P railgun

 

 

wait wait i wont stop here lets make a fair compare now ! M4 against M4 rail against smokey in m4s

 

 

m4 smokey min dmg is 420 and max is 640 and average is 500 ( its higher most of times not like rail its lesser most of times T_T ) 770 crit dmg

 

and reload time is 1.5 seconds lets calculate it stay here guys i know its quite long but i want shot that rail must get buff !!!!!

 

1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 12 sec

 

500 + 500 + 500 + 770 + 500 + 500 + 500 + 770 = 4540 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wowowowow m1 smokey beat m4 railgun thats very very balanced game

 

 

now lets talk mainly

 

 

so railgun is long ranged gun ? or you convert it to short weak range gun ? any way if its long range gun its need to get high dmg with out any    :angry:    :angry:  luck in its shots and its need a really high dmg coz its long range gun its used to hide and shot other and wait if its long range gun you dont need to show up your self fast you need to hide and wait the best moment and shot the enemy tank but wait if your gun is loaded with weak bullet waht can you do ? just hit him 900   :( i mean the railgun players hide there selfs then show up and bomb hit a tank with high dmg not weak dmg fast reload coz u making at like smokey now fast weak dmg ! this compeletly unfair ! unfair unfair unfair !!!!

 

 

 

 

any soultions ? mannnn !! there is millions of soultions milllions ! but devs dont    :angry:  think in anything either the shop $ (    :angry:    :angry:    :angry:    :( 

 

 

 

i will post the soultions in other post wait me

 

 

 

Why dont tanki re the old rail and replace the m2 altretion with this one from my self-made altretion https://prnt.sc/hf7oj0 and make an auto equpied altretion for xp/bp battles that change there rail stats like the current stats , its like in DR Mode ^-^ auto equpied ^-^ , why this ? Ok here some reason if the old rail back this mean slower reload ( exepct xp/bp its same as now ) slower reload mean less rail shots less rail shots mean less ( dead , dying,death idk ) Rate which mean players will have some extra seconds now to hide or attack or heall etc.

 

To add to what I_already_won said...

 

Have you seen the maps used in normal battles lately?

10 vs 10 = larger maps.

 

So now do your calculations based on greater distance.

 

And rail is more of a camper weapon so give it a free first shot before smky is aware it is being targeted... as smoky needs to move up on those larger maps to be effective.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

 

 

.   At higher ranks the freezing effect is only good for slowing down hulls stealing your flag.

That's what I found.  Hit them from the side as they go past, they're frozen as they go past and you're now behind and they cant turn that turret to hit.

Or you can go round them in circles, they still cant turn their turret.  That's what I meant.

Either way, I scored higher with freeze than I ever did with anything else.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

That's what I found.  Hit them from the side as they go past, they're frozen as they go past and you're now behind and they cant turn that turret to hit.

Or you can go round them in circles, they still cant turn their turret.  That's what I meant.

Either way, I scored higher with freeze than I ever did with anything else.

I don't disbelieve you, but if you can't get a higher score with Twins M2 then it is probably an issue with you and Twins (or any other turret that you've used), not that freeze is in any way strong.  By all means, uses Freeze if that is what you like best- but the general consensus is that Firebird is balanced and Freeze is worse than firebird.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I don't disbelieve you, but if you can't get a higher score with Twins M2 then it is probably an issue with you and Twins (or any other turret that you've used), not that freeze is in any way strong.  By all means, uses Freeze if that is what you like best- but the general consensus is that Firebird is balanced and Freeze is worse than firebird.

Depends on the m-level.

 

At m1 my freeze can beat just about any tank that does not one-shot me.  It has higher DPS than fire m1.

 

But at m2 fire gets a huge +30% dmg increase  - it leapfrogs Freeze.

 

They even out at M3.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

Depends on the m-level.

At m1 my freeze can beat just about any tank that does not one-shot me.  It has higher DPS than fire m1.

But at m2 fire gets a huge +30% dmg increase  - it leapfrogs Freeze.

They even out at M3.

We can't take low M-level comparisons since Firebird has very little afterburn of note.  M4 is what we consider here, especially since the turrets and hulls turn a lot faster.

Edited December 8, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[wolverine848 13,097]

Strange that i've had my brand new titan m4 ( 4000HP ) destroyed in 1 single shot on multiple occasions , and yes thats railgun . No i did not use protection and yes prob he had DD , but still a undamaged titan m3 20/20 4000HP in a single shot and you say your rail is weak ?

Rails got specific game for railgunners ... no other weapon got that , Pretty priviliged i'd say .

Smoky is in general better yes , when you move a rail straight on a smoky  , you lose probably ( depending on what hull etc ) but what makes you think you can do like this ? The specific railgun games are wasp / hornet or dictator and why you think its those hulls and not just any hull . Its the way you are supposed to use your weapon , as hide and seek .

Avg damage for Rail M4 with alt is (910+2240/2) = 1575 (with DD = 3150).

So you must have been extremely unlucky to get one-shotted by a Rail.

 

We can't take low M-level comparisons since Firebird has very little afterburn of note.  M4 is what we consider here, especially since the turrets and hulls turn a lot faster.

That's pretty limiting.

2 yrs of casual gameplay to get to m4.  Can't discount all that.

 

So maybe freeze M4 needs a bit of tweak.

And everyone knows the fire alteration is OP.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

That's pretty limiting.

2 yrs of casual gameplay to get to m4.  Can't discount all that.

 

So maybe freeze M4 needs a bit of tweak.

And everyone knows the fire alteration is OP.

That's what me and friend @RIDDLER_8 have been saying: M3 and M4 need a 20% and 30% freezing speed buff, respectively.  M0 could use a 20% freezing speed nerf.

 

The M2 fire alteration is OP because the downside of it does not apply or enter into the picture much.  Less energy reserve? Sure, might be a limiting factor on cramped maps like the old Polygon and HIghland where there are a lot of targets and not a lot of time to change targets.  But with the larger maps, there is so much space that Firebirds easily re-fuel between each target they encounter.  

 

Then we can use this to figure out why Freeze is so weak- because when it actually runs into a person the chance of winning is not that high.    

 

The developers probably think it is balanced from their data.  But it is skewed by the fact that Freeze users tend to gravitate towards smaller maps.  It's the same reason Shaft has been nerfed so much- because Shafts always play on large maps and developers judge it by its performance there.

 

With the onset of matchmaking the turrets at both ends of the spectrum need to be re-evaluated and buffed.

Edited December 8, 2017 by r_I_already_won0

[sezze100 416]

Avg damage for Rail M4 with alt is (910+2240/2) = 1575 (with DD = 3150).

So you must have been extremely unlucky to get one-shotted by a Rail.

 

That's pretty limiting.

2 yrs of casual gameplay to get to m4.  Can't discount all that.

 

So maybe freeze M4 needs a bit of tweak.

And everyone knows the fire alteration is OP.

Im not saying that it was not lucky shot , but it happened to me a few times allready , with titan m4 . To take out , even with the average like you posted and alt 3150 , thats all hulls except titan and mammy . On 1 shot ... theres i think besides the rail only 2 others who can do the same , magnum and shaft . You cant say it is weak then , all others always need a few seconds ( or multiple shots ) . If you master the skill of hiding and come out to shoot , you make a lot of kills . Its not the strongest weapon , but its also not underpowered .

[C.O.N.Q.U.E.R.O.R 3,845]

Strongest sniper weapon, strongest midrange weapon, and strongest shortrange weapon excluding Mag. Also, why?

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Well if Freeze is broken no one told the four operators I encountered the past few hours.

[sezze100 416]

Well if Freeze is broken no one told the four operators I encountered the past few hours.

The Freeze is the 1 i voted on most annoying weapon for me . You get to a flag with many difficulties , and then there is a freeze just sitting there with 2 isidas backup , cant get away again , without going for flag , since prob you be shot anyways and can't kill the big freeze with double isida and if you manage to snap the flag underneath him , you are frozen at spot ... very annoying . Played some other games where the tanker got like viking freeze , attacking me in my back , by the time i can turn im a solid icecube if not dead allready .  2/3 weeks more and i get the freeze at next sale .

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Yeah a dedicated defense like that is hard to crack. Fortunately you don't have to every game. 

 

Sometimes I can fight my way out of a freeze but not these four. Of course if I saw them at distance it was a different story. But when these four got close they sealed the deal.  :(

Edited December 9, 2017 by LittleWillie