category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[ILiveOnTheChatBox123 936]

I disagree on it being global, have you seen what a rail viking can do? Wiping half team or more in the course of few seconds, from any range, is not weak at all.

In some modes-the whole team is not usually all in one spot-so you hardly have a chance to 'wipe out the whole team'.

Also-if there are close range turrets, you can die before making 1 or 2 kills. Unless you get a whole bunch of snipers-you only get 1 OD per game with 2 or max 3 kills.

Although sometimes you DO get the advantage.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

You might be right, with Thunder too you can kill 4 or so if they are clumped together, because of splash, could be the same with Rail because of penetration, but with Rico you're killing about two.

Ricochet kills 3 on average for me when I face them. Some get two, a lot more get 4 or 5. They seem to activate it at the right time to get the most kills. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Kill_the_Propaganda2

[Orion2600 9]

So, I've recently gotten back into the game since my departure in early 2018. I've been noticing the changes real quick. Example: Wasp having a kamikaze bomb, Titan having a healing barrier, etc.

Personally like the old ODs better. Sure, they were annoying as ever to deal with when people singled you out with them, like using the OD when their health was low, but at least it was tolerable. Nowadays, dealing with each different hull's OD is like taming a raccoon with rabies, you can't do it at all. There are certain exceptions, such as the Hornet's radar one, but still, a literal bomb for the Wasp. A bomb that you can't escape the blast radius unless you're using the Wasp itself? Yeah sure, "fair and balanced." And most people just run in, get themselves killed, and just before they die, they drop this bomb. The other way players use the bomb, is by using it as insurance, making sure they get that single kill if they die. The Viking's not much better, as it gives the tank a fire rate boost, and if you touch the thing, you get instakilled, basically. On turrets such as Smokey and Thunder, this OD is extremely annoying to deal with, because you can't do anything. 

Well, I guess that's all I have to say, anyone also feel the ODs should be nerfed in some way?

[Truthteller 4,204]

Wasp bomb is not a kamikaze anymore  :ph34r:

[Nicola_M 1,563]

Twins overdrive really isn't that great at times, depending on which alteration you're using Twins with.

Plasma Accelerator is a bit like Ricochet on Overdrive, nice and precise but so slow you have time to do a crossword between shots.

Heavy Plasmagun's recoil on Overdrive can (on Viking) fire over your target... who can kill you underneath it.

Stabilised Plasma is a nice combination with Overdrive.

 

It's too short, imo, and would be nice if its 7-second overdrive could be used in bursts rather than one continuous 7-second barrage.

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

Twins overdrive really isn't that great at times, depending on which alteration you're using Twins with.

Plasma Accelerator is a bit like Ricochet on Overdrive, nice and precise but so slow you have time to do a crossword between shots.

Heavy Plasmagun's recoil on Overdrive can (on Viking) fire over your target... who can kill you underneath it.

Stabilised Plasma is a nice combination with Overdrive.

 

It's too short, imo, and would be nice if its 7-second overdrive could be used in bursts rather than one continuous 7-second barrage.

"Too short"? Do you understand that literally everyone is spamming Viking in JGR? It pisses me off beyond anything because people with Uranium and Viking are exploiting the game. Yes, that's right, I'm looking at anyone who uses Uranium and Viking's OD. That makes my blood boil within seconds and I often rage quit after that. I'm sick of people who are saying that Viking's OD is still weak because it clearly isn't, not even with a long charging time. I'd rather have a buff to Dictator and Hunter.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Here are my thoughts. Alterations should not have an effect on Viking's Overdrive. 

 

I find that Stock Striker may be better than Uranium Striker with the Overdrive since it has a faster reload and faster projectile speed and acceleration. 

 

Viking's Overdrive has a long recharge time. Some alterations make it easy to get the Overdrive while others would struggle when using other alterations. The Overdrive is a compensation for the hardships of obtaining it for some alterations but for others, it's just another boost on top of using the alteration itself. Alterations like Sledgehammer Rounds, Uranium, Large Calibre Rounds, Round Destabilisation and Stable Plasma get their Overdrives quicker than the rest and they get more out of it as well. 

 

I believe that the melee turrets need a boost in damage. They really do. Railguns, Thunders, Smokies, Shafts...basically everything except Vulcans and Magnums. 

 

Twins overdrive really isn't that great at times, depending on which alteration you're using Twins with.

Plasma Accelerator is a bit like Ricochet on Overdrive, nice and precise but so slow you have time to do a crossword between shots.

Heavy Plasmagun's recoil on Overdrive can (on Viking) fire over your target... who can kill you underneath it.

Stabilised Plasma is a nice combination with Overdrive.

 

It's too short, imo, and would be nice if its 7-second overdrive could be used in bursts rather than one continuous 7-second barrage.

7 seconds seems like a short time but on the receiving end, it feels like forever (cliche but sometimes true). Having the duration being dependent on the user wouldn't be balanced since you can spawnkill with that. And then you have to see how it works for different turrets. A Large Calibre Railgun can expel a singe shot and kill someone and have more than 6 seconds still remaining. They can do that Over and over and the spawning players can't really do much about that if the Railgun starts to hide. 

 

A Smoky using that would become a devastating Autocannon whenever it chooses to in those 7 seconds. I don't even know what to say about Magnum. It can shoot a shot and then reload really quickly and can utilise that. 

How will this be balanced with the different turrets and then the alterations for those turrets? That's the problem I'm seeing with Viking's Overdrive. Some turrets right now are just objectively better than others with the Overdrive. 

 

How would this look on the Viking? Would it have the continuous cloud of brown aura around the Viking to signify if it has its Overdrive active? If not, then that will leave too much uncertainty and would not be favourable to many players. 

 

Having it as a 7-second barrage is good. Each Overdrive is unique and used in different situations to the fullest. Viking's Overdrive works great in many modes and many maps where enemies are clumped up, especially if you have a splash damage turret. Seeing that Twins is so strong on its own, I'd say that's a sacrifice for the relatively low efficiency with the Overdrive. 

[Truthteller 4,204]

 

I don't think freeze / isida need a buff, but firebird feels weak in the melee turrets 

[Nicola_M 1,563]

"Too short"? Do you understand that literally everyone is spamming Viking in JGR? It pisses me off beyond anything because people with Uranium and Viking are exploiting the game. Yes, that's right, I'm looking at anyone who uses Uranium and Viking's OD. That makes my blood boil within seconds and I often rage quit after that. I'm sick of people who are saying that Viking's OD is still weak because it clearly isn't, not even with a long charging time. I'd rather have a buff to Dictator and Hunter.

Unless you're using it in DM, in most of the other maps there's often not more than one enemy within range.  So you kill one player with your overdrive and there's nothing left to kill.  Like Propaganda says below on another turret, you kill one player within 1sec and the other 6sec of overdrive is wasted.

 

One thing I have noticed on DM particularly, once enemies see Twins overdrive, they scatter.  Which again means there's nothing to fire at.

[Nicola_M 1,563]

 

How will this be balanced with the different turrets and then the alterations for those turrets? That's the problem I'm seeing with Viking's Overdrive. Some turrets right now are just objectively better than others with the Overdrive. 

 

 . 

Yes.

Twins' seven second overdrive does not make up for the fact that it's vulnerable while firing.  In DM I would say 2 out of 3 overdrives I get killed while using it, meaning you often don't even get the full use.

In comparison with Thunder's overdrive, I can kill a hull with 3 shots within 1 second with that, but with Twins it may be 2 or 3 seconds of shots before I kill the target. 

(Both my Twins and Thunder are 20/20 so they're the only equal turrets I can compare.)

[Cruelty 476]

 

Paint separation update

 

I liked it when players actually had to know protections of each paint, and take risks. now it's too easy. 

[Truthteller 4,204]

Anyone thinks that developers are making all turrets and hulls too similar?

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yes.

Twins' seven second overdrive does not make up for the fact that it's vulnerable while firing.  In DM I would say 2 out of 3 overdrives I get killed while using it, meaning you often don't even get the full use.

In comparison with Thunder's overdrive, I can kill a hull with 3 shots within 1 second with that, but with Twins it may be 2 or 3 seconds of shots before I kill the target. 

(Both my Twins and Thunder are 20/20 so they're the only equal turrets I can compare.)

Twins does not have an overdrive... Neither does Thunder.

 

Viking OD at 7 seconds is long enough. 

If you want to compare...

Mammoth lasts 10 seconds - but range of the "zap" is 7m

Hunter OD has short range and affects enemies for 3 seconds.  But it has a delay of 1 second and can be killed by a Duplet between the time tab is pressed and it actually goes off.

Wasp bomb is instant after the 3 second delay.

 

All of the above example are also subject to same limitations of Viking - that perhaps there is only 1 enemy nearby.

That's the choice you make when you activate - 1 enemy within site or multiple enemies in site.

[Guest]

Double Standards for Viking Overdrive suggestion

 

I notice that Viking's overdrive won't affect you if you use alterations which speed up reload time (such as the sledgehammer alteration) however when I use the minus-field stabilization, my Ricochet fires much faster. I find this to be problematic because alterations which increase reload time also generally provide a hefty punch to the turret, and therefore I think that there should be a balancing such that either regardless of alterations, a speed up in reload and damage happens (a buff) or regardless of the effect on reload time (higher or lower) the speed up and increase in damage doesn't happen.

[Hate 5,582]

 

 

Topics merged.

[Kill_the_Propaganda2 684]

Alteration shouldn't have an effect on Viking's Overdrive. There are so many mechanics that you won't even normally see on some turrets that are more devastating than their stock counterparts or others when used with Viking's Overdrive.

 

I believe that they shouldn't have an effect and some alterations make using Viking's Overdrive potentially dangerous to them selves or yielding lower rewards for it than others. I believe that the turret should be converted to the Stock counterpart when using the Overdrive. 

Alterations like Remote Rocket Explosives should be disabled when using Viking's Overdrive since players can blow themselves up if they repeatedly tap spacebar while the Overdrive is active. Since the rate of fire is so fast, the alteration can only take effect (use its benefit) right in front of the Striker's face which would make it self-destruct. 

 

Incendiary Band is one that suffers form the Overdrive as well. It instantly cools your tank when you activate it so you would be dealing 20% less damage with the Overdrive and you wouldn't even be able ignite the enemy. The same thing with Shooting Speed Regulator. The spin-up time for all Vulcans is basically non-existent so Stock Vulcan is better with the Overdrive than SSR Vulcan. 

 

I asked a Viking + Plasma Torch user to use his Overdrive while shooting and it seemed as if the firing rate was slowed down. It was nothing near Stock Ricochet's firing rate. I want to believe he wasn't holding spacebar down. 

 

Viking's Overdrive just gives me the impression that only particular turrets and alterations should work efficiently with it. Even for turrets as well. I took almost 6 seconds trying to kill an enemy Viking with my M2 Vulcan. More than 80% of my Overdrive time is depleted and I just finished killing one enemy while the other turrets (namely Railgun, Thunder, Smoky and Hammer) get many.  And Viking is so unstable. You would need to have pinpoint precision with Vulcan to make sure you get the most out of it and one Twins projectile pushes my aim off so far away. 

 

I notice that Viking's overdrive won't affect you if you use alterations which speed up reload time (such as the sledgehammer alteration) 

I noticed this and still notice this with Railgun on Viking's Overdrive. Large Calibre Rounds Railguns have a slower rate of fire than Electromagnetic Accelerator "Scout" Railguns but they deal more dmaage on a shot. Back when the damage increase was horrendous, it only made sense to use EMS Railgun with Viking since one projectile of an EMS Railgun with it was enough to one-shot unprotected hulls and the very faster firing rate allowed it to have more room for error in aiming (missing shots). 

 

 

Same with Smoky’s autocannon alteration. When Viking OD is activated, the firing rate is the same as without this alteration.

And it seems as if the damage decrease is still there for the shots. The said in a V-Log that Autocannon Smoky would be converted to Stock Smoky when using the Overdrive. It converts its reload time to that of Stock Smoky but its damage still has the 85% decrease and it isn't even given a damage increase from that. Balance is all over the place with all these parameters and mechanics. 

[pro-AGFR 32]

Wasp OD needs buff

 

How about buffing Wasp's OD? How y'all could make it better?

1. Increasing explosion radius.
(Alot of ppl are not able to put bomb in enemy crowd, because everyone drugging and killing wasp's before they reach exact point)

2. Making charging time shorter.
(One of the longest charging time compared to the other hull OD's, *Hunter's OD charging fast and its one of the best OD in the game*)

3. *NEW IDEA*
Giving an effect after explosion in that area for a some time.

(Radiation field or fire ground, which effect your tank the same as firebird's heating if you go through that explosion area it will make your vehicle move slower etc.)

5. *OOF?*
Exchange wasp OD to hornet's.

Edited June 28, 2019 by pro-AGFR

[Maf 32,300]

Also make it so that the blast damage works through walls (and other map props), at least partially. I hate it when the bomb has zero effect on the enemy just because they were slightly out of the line of sight of the blast.

[TO_King 818]

Also make it so that the blast damage works through walls (and other map props), at least partially. I hate it when the bomb has zero effect on the enemy just because they were slightly out of the line of sight of the blast.

Me Every time trying to hide from enemy Wasp OD using this trick. :ph34r:

[pro-AGFR 32]

Also make it so that the blast damage works through walls (and other map props), at least partially. I hate it when the bomb has zero effect on the enemy just because they were slightly out of the line of sight of the blast.

Yes, exactly. Its not good. Imagine... A nuke exploded and you trying hide 20metres away from explosion epi center behind a brick wall and you ain't getting even scratched, non sense. *BUT,BUT ITS GAME* No! Wasp OD really needs buff.

Edited June 2, 2019 by pro-AGFR

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hell nah, wasps dominate the population in low rank ctfs, cps, rugby, and probably asls.

 

And they're still adequate for the job in high ranks.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

How about buffing Wasp's OD? How y'all could make it better?

 

1. Increasing explosion radius.

(Alot of ppl are not able to put bomb in enemy crowd, because everyone drugging and killing wasp's before they reach exact point)

The lower ranks will suffer greatly because of this. They already have lower speed and acceleration to get away as well as lower health to actually tank the blast if they're on the outskirts of the radius. The bomb has a fixed number of damage and having a fixed number throughout all tiers is hard to balance. 

 

2. Making charging time shorter.

(One of the longest charging time compared to the other hull OD's, *Hunter's OD charging fast and its one of the best OD in the game*)

One of the longest? Wasp's Overdrive is tied with Hunter and Hornet for having the fastest Overdrive charging rate. And Wasp's Overdrive is a direct counter to Mammoth's AT-Field (Overdrive). Not to mention how fast a Hunter would have to react to disable the bomb. If the Hunter activates it just late enough, that Hunter (and possibly whatever number of teammates in the radius) would die and the Hunter's Overdrive charge would go down to about 60%. That would definitely cut back on the Hunter's ability to raid a base for maybe half a minute which is enough for the tables to turn in a MM battle. 

 

 

3. *NEW IDEA*

Giving an effect after explosion in that area for a some time.

 

(Radiation field or fire ground, which effect your tank the same as firebird's heating if you go through that explosion area or making your vehicle move slower etc.)

I like this. 

[XxStriker 519]

Buff wasp bomb? The thing that goes off nearly 2 times per minute due to the wasp horde plaguing the maps??? Sometimes there are enough bombs to fully kill (100%->0%) an m2 titan inside dome. Not to mention there are ALWAYS at least 2 bombs on the gold drop spot when one drops.

Edited June 2, 2019 by XxStriker

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Buff wasp bomb? The thing that goes off nearly 2 times per minute due to the wasp horde plaguing the maps??? Sometimes there are enough bombs to fully kill (100%->0%) an m2 titan inside dome. Not to mention there are ALWAYS at least 2 bombs on the gold drop spot when one drops.

Exactly, in actuality, wasps bombs should be nerfed, but I won't rant on about that. One things for sure, it does a lot better than people credit it.

[ILiveOnTheChatBox123 936]

I don't understand why you guys are clamoring for a buff.

Explain why it has a unfair balance?

It does not.

Wasps' bombs rule the game-especially in tight areas, and for heavy hulls.

(how about-mines are unfair-they don't detonate if you don't go exactly over them wawawaa)

Wasp is good enough.