category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

This entire time the thing that has been your saving grace is magnum, not the fact that you use hornet. Use any other hull with Magnum, you'd have at least just as good a time with it as you would with hornet when using Magnum. May be I phrased it wrong in that it isn't useless, but it is far less in giving you an advantage.

Right before I started seeing a sharp increase in Magnum protections after the buff, I dominated in battles. I barely went against enemies with protection against me in that short time and I produced great results. After that short time, I saw Magnum protection littered around in battles whether it was on my team or the enemies' team. Immediately, my efficiency went down because I wasn't able to cause enough damage to kill them or assist my team in stopping pushes so my team can win that CTF battle. What made me dominate again? Hornet's Overdrive, that's what. It ignored protections and for 20 seconds, it brought me back into the days where there weren't as many Magnum protections around. With it, I was able to stop large pushes or a pesky enemy that was detrimental to my team's success. And it's important to know the type of Magnum I'm using because...

 

Using hornet in DM match while you are using magnum is going to get a biased result, exactly what you showed there. You are using Magnum, a clearly OP weapon as of right now. Same could be said about rail with its large calibre round alteration, striker with missiles that deal double the damage and thunder at times. I don't know how, but somehow some thunders have an alteration that lets them deal double the damage than usual, not that I know of one that allows that. Either that or I didn't pay attention to the fact that I lost double armor just when they shot, cause I clearly had nearly 50% protection from one.

...I use a Reinforced Gun Carriage Magnum as seen in the photos. I don't use vertical aiming, I use horizontal aiming. The only M3 hulls I have are Hornet, Hunter and Titan. I'm not going to use Titan with RGC Magnum because I can't stay in my base and shoot enemies with that; I can do that with vertical-aiming Magnums. Now most of my experience with this alteration was before the...change to it. I'm not sure if that was a nerf or a buff. I was able to shoot far but with the 2-degree decrease, my range has been reduced. So I had to get comfortable with the decrease and now, I know how to maneuver the hull to get to different targets.

I had used this alteration mostly with Hunter back when it had a 5-degree elevation. It produced good results because not many players used Magnum protection back then (from what I've experienced). I tried it with Titan and it ddin't produce good results because it was slow and I missed out a lot of action. So I realised it needed speed, but I didn't want to sacrifice so much HP for speed by using Hornet. I caved and put it on my Hornet, got the feel of it and then started to do great with it. RGC Magnum requires you to get in closer to the enemy. Using a light or medium hull is recommended. 

 

My Hornet is 4/20, which translates to 1,812 HP. That's almost 200 HP less than the M4 light hulls  frequently face. That 200 HP is enough to withstand getting one-shotted by a LCR or Round Destabilisation Railgun. That also translates to 1 less Sledgehammer Thunder shot I can endure; to me being possibly one-shotted by a Stock M4 Striker, and those numbers increase when I'm wearing double armour. In small maps, I die frequently but because many players use double damage when they spawn, I'm able to get a kill before I die and possibly spawn somewhere safer. Legend players use so many things that can one-shot me or kill me without me fighting back. So I'm taking a risk by using something with relatively less HP. And that risk...is worth, thanks to its Overdrive. 

 

You say that my "saving grace" was Magnum. Yeah, it's powerful with that reload...if you get it to 100% velocity and actually hit the target. Not all targets require 100% velocity shots, especially when you're using a Reinforced Gun Carriage Magnum. The decreased projectile gravitation along with a fixed angle of elevation require different %s for different enemies in different positions and platforms. In many cases, if I were to fire a 100% velocity shot, I'd miss the target totally and not even do splash damage. And then we have my Magnum's damage. My Magnum's average damage is 1598 damage, yet I hit below 1,500 many times. My average damage is enough to take off about 55% of an M4 medium hull's HP. That is both of us on equal footing. Now if I use double damage, there is supposed to be a good chance that I one-shot them. But as you know, it's Legend battles and everyone is using supplies. So it's not often that I'd see many enemies unprotected. 

 

So if I were to be hitting players with double armour enabled, I wouldn't one-shot them. I'd take away half of their health. So where does my high score come from? It comes from Hornet's Overdrive. I make sure to activate it where I'm safe and I get many kills, sometimes I take out both enemies who are fighting each other at melee range with one shot. I use it with double damage because that's how you get the most out of Hornet's Overdrive. Magnum protections are becoming more common and they will be nullified when I have my Overdrive active. Sure, the majority of my kills are from non-Overdriven shots but that's because Hornet's Overdrive lasts only 20 seconds. I get about 3 per game. That's only a minute of Overdrive in a 6-7 minute battle. If I were to just use Magnum without the Overdrive. I wouldn't be getting good scores. I'd have a hard time dealing with protection modules. 

 

All turrets are powerful when not faced against protection. And they're each powerful in their own way. Thunder with being able to send strong projectiles quickly; Smoky, the same way; LCR Railguns, Magnums and Shafts being able to send one powerful shot, Vulcan being able to rip through their HP steadily but surely, Hammer taking their enemies' HP by large chunks etc. 

 

 

And you seem to be talking like you know better. I have an alt that is Generalissimo and I am telling based on my experience with that account as well. Hornets are sometimes prevalent, sure, when they have a weapon that can 1 - 2 shot a heavy one with a ranged weapon and are usually safe from combat. Otherwise, wasps are used for various purposes in various team based matches. And I can't recall any hornets I have seen in DM, it's full of vikings, hunters, and some titans and mammoths here and there.

Yes, I've been seeing an overload of Vikings, Titans and Hunters. I do see light hulls but yes, the majority are medium hulls. In the Legend ranks, you'd see more Hornets than Wasps as opposed to seeing more Wasps than Hornets in the lower ranks. 

 

And why do you think they use the 1 to 2-shot turrets with Hornet? 

 

 

Knowing the state of your opponent is almost pointless. You can know this simply by already observing what the enemy does. If they have all the supplies on, but they are running away from you, they are low on health, not much question about it. Just a question of initiative before any observation. Useful sometimes, entirely useless most times, especially since you can't see.

How is it pointless? If you just looked around a corner and see an enemy driving away after a confrontation, you would know what happened there? No, you wouldn't. You can have an idea of what took place but you'll never fully know unless you have all the details and that is what Hornet's Overdrive does: give you the details as the the result of the confrontation. How would you know if the guy has almost full health or not. You could sneak up behind the person and shoot a powerful shot, yet it didn't kill him, and then he turns around and sends you to a spawn point. 

 

There are many things that I pay attention (or HAVE to pay attention) to in these DM battles. I have to pay attention to who is using what; how much of a threat are they to me?; do I have protection again them?; where are they in the map now?; how will I survive an encounter with them?; Did they change their turret or hull?; which protection modules do they have now?; how many of each turret are there in the battle?; what drones do the enemies have equipped?; what alterations do they have equipped?

All of those questions I ask myself and I'm observant of each player. I make sure to look at the killfeed every chance I get. I take risks given the limited knowledge I know of a confrontation that took near me but out of sight.  

 

Hornet's Overdrive doesn't answer those questions but it makes it easier for me to make the right choices as I have insight on where they are as well as their remaining HP. When you're using particular turrets, it's important to know its damage when used with double damage so that you can make the right choices in who you're going to assault. My damage range is more than 1,000 damage wide. I take a risk every time i directly hit someone from the front or behind. With Hornet's Overdrive, I can more safely make the right decisions that will sustain my life longer and also make the most out of the Overdrive. 

 

About that not being able to see thing, I've been killed because of that by particular turrets. I would be looking straight forward and see a Viking + some turret. I would take aim and by the time I'm about to shoot, it kills me with its Railgun. So that's why I make sure to look at the killfeed regularly so when I see the player's name, I'll instantly know what turret they'd be using at that time and how to react to it. Other times, the death could be unavoidable. If they'r eon a higher elevation, the symbol can cover their entire tank and you wouldn't know if you're shooting a light hull or a heavy hull. 

 

 

And being invisible for Hornet wouldn't mean it would be invincible. It would still be very much destructible if you know where it is (e.g. if you have hornet or someone on the other team has hornet module activated to make them visible for instance), or have hunter disable its overdrive! There would be plenty counters.

 

It wouldn't mean that it's invincible, but it would mean that its survivability would be heightened while its fellow light hull, Wasp, would be as visually tangible as ever. Invisibility would make Hornet's Overdrive way better than Wasp's Overdrive. 

 

Exxxxxxactly. If you even know where it is. Why should there be extra effort to locate something already as swift as Hornet? They can hide behind buildings and then pick off enemies safely you're not going to notice that thing that Thunder and Smoky does when they shoot. It'll be far away and it would be constantly moving. This is almost guaranteeing the Hornet lives until its Overdrive finishes. Why should it not be as killable as the others? It already ignores ALL protections, including Titan's dome for crying out loud! Having it go invisible just adds extra uncertainty and paranoia in battles. How can you fight something you can't see. 

 

And what if the enemy doesn't have a Hornet? What if one team uses its Hornet's Overdrive and the other team's Hornet's Overdrive isn't ready yet? And what are the chances that an invisible Hornet that ignores all protections would attack close to an enemy Hunter? Especially if they are using a mid-long range turret. The turrets that require you to get in close and personal can kill the Hunter before it reacts with its Overdrive. Invisibility is too powerful and unfair for the other hulls. Hornet's Overdrive already has the fastest recharge time. 

 

 

Can't remember the last time I saw someone with Hornet and Freeze, remember when that was a good combo to have? Now it's just asking for trouble especially if you have the overdrive on while running around with it.

Yes, it is still a great combo. And I see them shredding through enemies' HP with their Overdrive. Freeze itself is powerful now and if you're unprotected, you're going to die if it touches you from behind and there are no teammates for you to get helped by. 

[lssimo 1,559]

The problem is that Tanki is making the game more complicated that only the dedicated players that play in groups can do well, and at the same time they want new players playing Tanki Mobile. How is that working Tanki? Monday peak 20k, Tuesday peak 19k, Wednesday peak 18k...

 

Hornet is very powerful, if not OP when used to it's full potential, and at the same time it's useless for others. I can see this at low and mid ranks. In one awful battle after few deaths I decided to just camp and let the battle end because a Group with Hornets, Shaft and Rail where dominating left and right, and my team was either full of noobs or they decided to do inventory of their Garage.

 

Good luck balancing that Tanki.

[ILiveOnTheChatBox123 936]

Hornet is very powerful, if not OP when used to it's full potential, and at the same time it's useless for others. I can see this at low and mid ranks. In one awful battle after few deaths I decided to just camp and let the battle end because a Group with Hornets, Shaft and Rail where dominating left and right, and my team was either full of noobs or they decided to do inventory of their Garage.

 

Good luck balancing that Tanki.

But if wrongly used it is worthless. On the other hand-invisibility is way too crazily strong-I mean they can blow you away without you realizing!

[Aigaion 636]

I think Honet is actually pretty balanced, remember it can ignore mines as well.

"they can blow you away without you realizing!"

*Laughs in Gauss* 

[wolverine848 13,097]

I think Honet is actually pretty balanced, remember it can ignore mines as well.

*Laughs in Gauss* 

What do you mean by Hornet ignoring mines?    Hornet helps you ignore defenses when shooting at a target.  How are mines affected?

[Aigaion 636]

What do you mean by Hornet ignoring mines?    Hornet helps you ignore defenses when shooting at a target.  How are mines affected?

I think I read the wiki entry wrong, but here it is

• "Ignoring the protection extends to damage from burning and mines."

It could be talking about "Spider" protection, but I'm not sure what it means. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Aigaion

[F1ASC0 1,705]

Instead of buffing Hornet how about we nerf the other hulls?

[jaydevjaydev 343]

I think I read the wiki entry wrong, but here it is

• "Ignoring the protection extends to damage from burning and mines."

It could be talking about "Spider" protection, but I'm not sure what it means. 

I think it means that the enemy's Spider protection module will be ignored by the Hornet's mines. So full damage from the mines too

[Aigaion 636]

I think it means that the enemy's Spider protection module will be ignored by the Hornet's mines. So full damage from the mines too

Interesting, ok, one would think they would just say that...

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Make wasps bomb fuse last longer.

 

Ever since wasp bomb has been released, it has been getting buff after buff after buff.

First buff removed self damage from the bomb.

Second buff was the ability to reset mammoths OD.

Third buff was the 11% recharge rate increase.

This is what I call "playing favorites" and the devs have been doing just that with these buffs.

My proposal now that wasp is the dominant hull in the low ranks, is to increase the timer from 3 to 5 seconds, giving people enough time to clear the area.

[Aigaion 636]

 

 

Ok, what the hell are you talking about?! How is any of this obvious?! This is precisely why this is such an awful overdrive, unless you read the wiki, you'll have no idea what it does other than let you know enemy health and location, and may be let other players know that too. Didn't know it did ANYTHING else. But that does make it a good hull. How many people actually know any of this? The fact that people actually asked you about this in the first place shows how obscure it is and how its huge amounts of effects suck to demonstrate themselves.

 

And what exactly do you mean by mines? Nothing is mentioned on the wiki about mines! The mines you place as hornet with overdrive active make them deal full damage even if the enemy has protection from a mine? Not even the wiki tells you anything about mines!

If you look on the wiki about overdrive, than Hornet, you'll see it says that enemy spider protection is ignored by the hornet's placed mines, I didn't understand it correctly. 

[Maf 32,300]

Actually, Wasp has been getting buffs not because devs are trying to make everyone use it, but because so far every previous buff wasn't enough to put Wasp's bomb OD on the same level as the other hulls. Even now I'm not sure if it's all that good, considering how easy it is to take cover or drive away from it when the bomb is placed, or just counter-OD it with Hunter, Mammoth or Titan.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

These hulls can't seem to get the ODs fast enough, wasps bomb recharges so quickly, and can be manipulated with kills, score, etc. Plus they are practically everywhere in the low ranks, the least these devs could do is nerf M0 wasps bomb by making the timer longer.

[Initiate 1,306]

M0 hulls can't move away quick enough... they should decrease the timer for every mod of Wasp. M0 is 5 seconds, M1 is 4, M2 is 3.5, M3 is 3.

[WhoWantTheSmoke 1,984]

Its overdrives range should be little bit smaller and hunter's overdrives range a little smaller as well, then magnum m1 / m2's damage is way too high so is railguns

[XxStriker 519]

M0 hulls can't move away quick enough... they should decrease the timer for every mod of Wasp. M0 is 5 seconds, M1 is 4, M2 is 3.5, M3 is 3.

This is what it should be, there is no way you're dodging a bomb without being a wasp yourself at low modifications.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

M0 hulls can't move away quick enough... they should decrease the timer for every mod of Wasp. M0 is 5 seconds, M1 is 4, M2 is 3.5, M3 is 3.

The problem I had with that is that players who bought kits very early will have an direct advantage with their Overdrive over the other lower tier Wasps, and even more so if they upgraded it. 

 

And I'm sure that they would do it in a way to reflect Wasp's statistics changes so it would look more like:

 

M0: 5 seconds

 

M1: 4.5 seconds

 

M2: 3.4 seconds

 

M3: 3 seconds

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Actually, Wasp has been getting buffs not because devs are trying to make everyone use it, but because so far every previous buff wasn't enough to put Wasp's bomb OD on the same level as the other hulls. Even now I'm not sure if it's all that good, considering how easy it is to take cover or drive away from it when the bomb is placed, or just counter-OD it with Hunter, Mammoth or Titan.

I mean sure, getting away from one bomb isn't much of a problem. The problem is getting away from multiple bombs. In low rank team battles where they dominate, there is no answer to a bomb raid (where groups of wasps lay bombs in desired choke points) plus it makes spawn killing much worse than it already was.

 

In low ranked battles, wasps outnumber all the other hulls combined 9 to 1.

[F41TH 483]

I don't know why but I laughed as I read the topic name. Am I alright ?  

 

 

 

Also can we put butter on bread and toast it and then eat it with peanut butter or jam ?

[pro-AGFR 32]

So much drama. If kids want wasp nerf then maybe take out wasp from the game? Buff Mammoth's od (make it run as fast as wasp and ram everyone, give hornet invisibility for whole battle and hunter ability go through walls) :D

[Initiate 1,306]

The problem I had with that is that players who bought kits very early will have an direct advantage with their Overdrive over the other lower tier Wasps, and even more so if they upgraded it. 

 

And I'm sure that they would do it in a way to reflect Wasp's statistics changes so it would look more like:

 

M0: 5 seconds

 

M1: 4.5 seconds

 

M2: 3.4 seconds

 

M3: 3 seconds

Well, well, let's get analytical, shall we?

;)

[wolverine848 13,097]

Actually, Wasp has been getting buffs not because devs are trying to make everyone use it, but because so far every previous buff wasn't enough to put Wasp's bomb OD on the same level as the other hulls. Even now I'm not sure if it's all that good, considering how easy it is to take cover or drive away from it when the bomb is placed, or just counter-OD it with Hunter, Mammoth or Titan.

Are you nuts? 

 

The bomb kills multiple hulls every battle.  You only have a chance to escape if you are already moving and have a speed boost or are close to outer perimeter.

 

Other plan is to... have Hunter save the OD just in case a wasp drops one?

 

Wasp OD is more than "good".

[Maf 32,300]

Are you nuts? 

 

The bomb kills multiple hulls every battle.  You only have a chance to escape if you are already moving and have a speed boost or are close to outer perimeter.

 

Other plan is to... have Hunter save the OD just in case a wasp drops one?

 

Wasp OD is more than "good".

Well, maybe I just haven't been up against many Wasps, but to me the bomb has never been much of a threat, and when using Wasp myself, I don't find the bomb to be very useful.

 

If you treat it as a way to get extra kills, then Viking's OD allows you to get 3-4 extra kills with every activation, so that's around 7 per battle. Getting 7 bomb kills in one battle with Wasp is near impossible, unless a gold drops or something.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Well, maybe I just haven't been up against many Wasps, but to me the bomb has never been much of a threat, and when using Wasp myself, I don't find the bomb to be very useful.

 

If you treat it as a way to get extra kills, then Viking's OD allows you to get 3-4 extra kills with every activation, so that's around 7 per battle. Getting 7 bomb kills in one battle with Wasp is near impossible, unless a gold drops or something.

I don't think the intent of placing the bomb should be focused on getting kills. It should be to make a difference in battle, whether it is getting kills, flushing key enemy campers out of their hiding spots, deactivating mammoths OD, or just pushing back surviving enemy attackers.

[Maf 32,300]

I don't think the intent of placing the bomb should be focused on getting kills. It should be to make a difference in battle, whether it is getting kills, flushing key enemy campers out of their hiding spots, deactivating mammoths OD, or just pushing back surviving enemy attackers.

True, but from personal experience I still feel like Wasp is one of the weakest and least useful overdrives, in any game mode.