category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[CuT_TheRe_HeaRTs_OuT 640]

I don't mind letting wasp become op, after all it dies in a few shots from my twins , they are very good for improving my

K/D and i easily silence there bombs with my dome , also from time to time i die from there bomb but i am OK with that

They mostly keep respawning in the battles i am in so letting them get some payback is only fair.

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

My suggestions to make the game as best as it can be.

 

Hello, although i have very little forum activity i have been playing this game for many years so i think its safe to say i have seen its ups and downs. Essentially i wanted to make this topic in order to address some things in the game that i think need to be changed/added/removed. The reason i have decided to make a new topic rather than add to an existing one is because i have a fair few ideas that dont fit into any 1 category.

 

And of course i think its worth mentioning that some of my ideas may be controversial at 1st glance but please do read everything before you make a response, if you make a response. 

 

Anyway, lets start: 

 

1st of all, turrets. arguably the most important part of a tank. the turret is supposed to allow your tank to operate in all different situations, some better than others in certain scenarios. however, i believe that every turret should have a good balance of risk to reward, and unfortunately i think some arent fitting with that.

 

magnum,

at 1st you might think this turret takes alot of skill to use and be effective, but then you see what the majority of magnum players do, sit with a heavy hull behind a wall and never expose themselves while simultaneously dealing some of the highest damage in the game. this turret offers a very high reward with very little risk. its hard to counter in alot of maps that have walls as cover. it has very high impact force so its hard for a shaft to snipe its barrel, it has a ridiculous splash radius allowing it to hit someone for considerable damage even if they are a fair distance away from the initial hit point, it has a fairly fast reload all things considered, pretty fast projectile speed and not to mention devastating damage. all these things combined with that fact that a magnum hardly has to expose themselves to do all this makes the turret too easy to use and really doesnt require any skill what so ever. These factors only get worse when it comes to alterations (more on that later). I believe this turreet should either be removed entirely as i dont think it fits the type of game that tanki is, or should at least get a nerf in all areas stated above (not to the point its useless, but to the point that it isnt as effective considering the playstyle)

 

 

Firebird,

now i just want to make something very clear, in its stock form firebird is fairly balanced, im not a fan of how the burn effect ticks for consistent damage each time (even when you are hardly heated up), something that the old firebird didnt have. but with that said, for the most part the turret is fine, the issues come later on where i will explain how certain alterations abuse this mechanic.

 

 

twins, 

twins has seen its fair share of changes over the years, some for the better, others not so. twins is a gun favored by alot of starting players as its very easy to use and delivers results. i do however thing the results are too good. at later points in the game with m2, m3 and m3+ twins becomes quite a problem if you ask me. it doesnt take much skill to use as there really isnt much penalty for missing shots. other issues that twins presents are: too much damage, for something that is so easy to hit enemies with it does too much damage, too much impact force, this is a real issue as it makes it so that other turrets in its range category (short range) such as hammer suffer since its very hard to aim against a twins player without being a good driver. and of course, being a good driver is a part of being good at the game and using that skill in combat can make you shine above the rest, however you have to be a skillful player and drive well even against a not so good player so long as they are using twins. when you go against a good player using something like twins it becomes very hard to counter to the point its overpowered. knocking of your opponents aim is a good strategy but you dont need to use any strategy with twins to do so. more issues arise in alterations. to fix this turret, reduce impact force, slightly increase reload, slightly increase projectile speed.

 

 

shaft,

as satisfying as it is to get a 1 shot on an enemy, it isnt entirely fair. allow me to explain, i consider myself a fairly good player who has alot of skills under my belt, however if someone who is hiding can just 1 shot me then i have no opportunity to use my skills in order to counter them. again, low risk, high reward. now with shaft when in sniping mode your tank is stationary so it can be an easy target, but then the majority of players run shaft with mammoth, a hull that has a 1 side peak advantage, and some of the most health in the game. if you have a shaft only slightly peaking out with the front side of a mammoth that can easily 1 shot you yet you cant do the same since they have too much hp, then it becomes very hard to counter and they really arent doing much work to kill you. 

to fix that make it so shaft can only 1 shot a medium hull with a shot to the turret, shots to the hull will not do as much damage (enough damage to 1 shot a hornet but not a medium hull). some alts are also overpowered.

 

 

thats about it for the turret section, now only hulls. i will include hulls overdrives in the hull section too.

 

hulls:

 

dictator,

a well respected hull that has been in the game forever. imposing to the enemies, but is that for the right reasons? the hull itself i see has no issues, the issues with this hull come with the overdrive. upon 1st release of the new overdrives, dictators was a little lacking compared to the rest. it was fairly basic and because of that didnt get much love. however now i see it to be too powerful, the ability that activates all supplies is great, the freezing is a bit weird but tolerable, but what i cant look past is the 50% overdrive fill of allies. this is too much, dictator offers a good support overdrive with its activation of supplies and its freezing, the 50% isnt necessary. it can guarantee a flag capture every time if the whole team rolls up with overdrives ready, as little as 2 dictators on a team practically seals the deal on who wins the battle. to fix this either remove the 50% overdrive fill for allies or reduce it to 20%.

 

 

hunter,

  ill keep this one short, good ability, shouldnt stop the reload of weapons, shouldnt activate supply cooldown (just cancel out current supplies) and should have a little less range.

 

 

titan,

as much as i love titan and its overdive, i think it needs a slight nerf. im not sure of the resistance value that it provides but i believe it should be lowered slightly so that a viking using overdrive can kill a titan in its dome. also i think its worth doing an experiment to see if, when an enemy does under a titans dome, it should deal normal  damage since the shots arent passing through the domes wall, bit rather being shot from inside the dome.

 

 

mammoth,

probably the most complained about overdrive, and rightly so. in its current state mammoths overdrive is a problem, and im not talking about for gold boxes, they are just a bonus, im talking about the fact that its too effective. this is my proposition for the overdrive, when overdrive is activated the mammoth can absorb 5000 hp without any damage being done to the mammoths health, in this state it keeps the same movement speed as normal and can kill tanks on contact, the "kill tanks on contact" range should be increased by a 3 meters. once the mammoth has taken 5000 hp of damage the overdrive will stop and the mammoth will go back to the same health that it had before using the overdrive (providing it didnt get healed), overdrive automatically stops after 10 seconds. this will retain mammoths reputation of being a fortress but it will still be killable if a team focuses it.

 

 

now for the most important part in my opinion, alterations!

 

Alterations:

 

firebird:

 

compact fuel tanks: this alteration is the one i was talking about when i said it abuses the burning mechanic. less than a second of firebird contact can kill light hulls with this alteration. its so easy to use, you hardly have to fire at your enemies for this alteration to be effective. its just too powerful and i think the only way to fix this is to unfortunately remove it from the game.

 

 

magnum:

 

mortar: essentially all of the problems i stated about magnum before, but even worse because it places mines. 

there are 2 potential ways to fix this, 1 make it so that with this alt equipped magnum doesnt have a splash radius. you can still do damage with a direct hit to an enemy or have them go over a mine but no splash radius. 2 only have a mine place if the shot didnt do any damage to any player. the issue with this alt is that even if your shot misses the enemy, you will do a load of splash damage and still place a mine. a mine should only be placed if no damage is done with the shot or splash damage.

 

 

shaft: 

 

rapid fire mode: this alteration just shouldnt exist, its not how shaft should be played. shaft if about high damage in 1 shot, if you dont kill with the shot arcade shots are meant to finish off an opponent, not be the primary mode of shaft. its meant to be the longest range gun in the game yet is too effective at short - mid range with this alteration.

 

 

railgun:

 

electromagnetic accelerator "scout": this basically makes railgun a more powerful thunder. still high damage, pretty fast reload, no damage drop off over range. the fix this the alt should have a penalty for minimum damage, not just max damage. - 25% minimum damage.

the problem with alts that give less damage but faster reload is that it means there is less penalty for missing shots since you will be able to fire again quicker. its less rewarding of accuracy.

large caliber rounds: not so much a problem with the alt itself, but the visuals and sound effect for charging need to be adjusted to be in time with firing.

 

 

thunder:

 

Sledgehammer: again with the "less reload, less damage" except its not less damage. now i know its not 100% efficiency, but the higher damage drop off is compensated by the faster reload so at range its really not that bad, when it is meant to be bad at range. also in maps like sandbox, where its fairly close range, this alt is dominant since its damage drop off isnt effected that much, but you still get the fast reload. to fix this lower the max range of thunder with this alt equipped.

 

 

twins:

 

stabilized plasma: basically makes all the problems i talked about before with twins worse because now you cant even counter it by getting close. simply needs to be removed.

 

 

hammer: 

 

duplet: hardly takes skill to use,can output damage almost at the levels of shaft, bit with a faster reload and no charge time. on light hulls this is way too powerful as they just hit you for ridiculous damage then run away until they reload, rinse and repeat. not hard to do, doesnt take skill to utilize and ultimately is a cool concept but is just not appropriate in the game.

 

 

freeze:

 

shock freeze: too dominant on maps where its easy to single out opponents, with the decreased energy consumption you can output similar damage to a normal freeze (granted in a longer time) but since you insta freeze them essentially the extra time to kill them doesnt even matter since they cant fight back. to fix remove decreased energy consumption.

 

 

smoky:

 

incendiary rounds:event when loosing the bonus crit damage you do more damage with the burn effect, needs a nerf in how much it ignites the target. 

cryo rounds: should freeze the target a little bit more to justify the price 

autocannon: this alteration is the  epitome of no skill, it relies on rng, rng is a bad thing since you dont know how to counter it since its random. also this alteration has almost no penalty for missing shots, making it an incredibly low risk alteration.should either be removed or shoot slower and have corresponding damage stat adjustments.

 

 

finally, thats it for alterations. now for a few things that i think would improve the game in general.

 

supplies (aside from batteries)  should be free and limitless. there should be more emphasis on the skillful and strategic use of supplies rather than the current "whoever has the most wins" and yes i know this brings in revenue for the game, and i know the devs have to put food on the plate for them and their families however if they care about the game they should make supplies free and limitless and get revenue from new skins that they release. maybe add a purely cosmetic section to the shop where you can buy ammo colours, skins, paints and more cosmetic items for real money.

 

another thing that i think should change is protection modules, more specifically there values. the absolute maximum protection against a turret should be 33.3% (m3 fully micro upgraded) 50% protection is a very silly idea, making a turret half as effective is dreadful and reduces variety. if someones got 50% protection, you pretty much have to change turret because killing them just isnt happening. 33.3% protection offers a good advantage still, but isnt as overpowered as 50%. 

 

thats about it, i truly believe that these things would help to make the game the best it has ever been, the most fun to play, actually take skill to be effective, and have more variety in battles while maintaining a balance of risk to reward.

 

if you read all the way through i want to say thank you because this was very long, i would love to hear your thoughts on these ideas and any criticisms you may have. thank you.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Hate

[Aigaion 636]

Maf is still tryn'a read it  :lol:

[Maf 32,300]

Maf is still tryn'a read it  :lol:

yup  :wacko:

[Maf 32,300]

magnum, at 1st you might think this turret takes alot of skill to use and be effective, but then you see what the majority of magnum players do, sit with a heavy hull behind a wall and never expose themselves while simultaneously dealing some of the highest damage in the game.

It takes quite a lot of skill to accurately hit targets by controlling the angle and power of the shot. The only exception is something like ASL mode where all enemies sit in one place so the Magnum just fires into the same spot repeatedly, but in other battle formats camping like this and still getting a high score is quite difficult. Personally, I never liked the camping strategy. Whenever I use Magnum, I play with it just like Smoky or Rico.

 

Twins and Firebird are powerful turrets, but they have their counters. To avoid getting knocked around by Twins, stand with your back against a wall and your aim won't shake as much. To avoid Firebird, just stay out of range. Yes, with the compact tanks alteration the fire effect becomes extremely powerful, but the energy tank itself only lasts 2 seconds, so it's hard for the Firebird to do kills, especially considering that at higher ranks everyone just uses a repair kit to get rid of burning. I personally use the Incendiary Mix alt that gets rid of burning altogether, I think it's super OP.

 

Shaft already got a big nerf years ago when the laser was added. Now, in order to counter it you just have to be on the lookout for lasers. I really don't think it's much of a problem these days,

 

 

the 50% isnt necessary. it can guarantee a flag capture every time if the whole team rolls up with overdrives ready, as little as 2 dictators on a team practically seals the deal on who wins the battle.

Dictator's OD is very underrated, considering that barely anyone uses the hull in battles It's not easy to get an organised team using dictators effectively, and I have yet to see it in any MM battle. If someone is capable of doing it and it easily wins them the battle, then they deserve the victory.

 

 

titan, as much as i love titan and its overdive, i think it needs a slight nerf. im not sure of the resistance value that it provides but i believe it should be lowered slightly so that a viking using overdrive can kill a titan in its dome. also i think its worth doing an experiment to see if, when an enemy does under a titans dome, it should deal normal  damage since the shots arent passing through the domes wall, bit rather being shot from inside the dome.

 

mammoth, probably the most complained about overdrive, and rightly so. in its current state mammoths overdrive is a problem, and im not talking about for gold boxes, they are just a bonus, im talking about the fact that its too effective.

For Titan, I'm pretty sure it's already possible to take out a Titan with Viking shooting it non-stop using DD and overdrive. Also it has three major weaknesses - Hunters can disable the shield (and disable all enemies in it too), Hornets can shoot right through it, and Mammoth's OD works through it too.

 

I feel like you missed the update where Mammoth's OD duration was literally halved, down to 5 seconds from 10. I think in its current state it's much less OP than it was, both for gold boxes and general gameplay. It's very difficult to find enough enemies to drive into when you have just 5 seconds, so I think it's fine.

 

 

now for the most important part in my opinion, alterations!

You have some valid points here, but you often forget that the alterations you think are OP also have specific disadvantages to them, which allow them to be countered. I agree that some of the alterations you mentioned are OP, though definitely not all of them. Developers are constantly monitoring them in order to make appropriate balance changes, as you can see from the numerous updates that affected alterations.

 

 

supplies (aside from batteries)  should be free and limitless. there should be more emphasis on the skillful and strategic use of supplies rather than the current "whoever has the most wins" and yes i know this brings in revenue for the game, and i know the devs have to put food on the plate for them and their families however if they care about the game they should make supplies free and limitless and get revenue from new skins that they release. maybe add a purely cosmetic section to the shop where you can buy ammo colours, skins, paints and more cosmetic items for real money.

 

I fully agree, but you said it yourself - supplies are a vital part of the game economy, and unfortunately at the moment the revenue from their sales is vital for the project's survival.

 

---

 

In the future, please refrain from writing so much in an idea post. If you want your suggestion to actually be read and considered, short and concise texts are much more effective.

Also, one topic - one idea. Ideas and Suggestions section rules.

[TO_King 818]

Someone was busy writing a Novel. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

"It takes quite a lot of skill to accurately hit targets by controlling the angle and power of the shot. The only exception is something like ASL mode where all enemies sit in one place so the Magnum just fires into the same spot repeatedly, but in other battle formats camping like this and still getting a high score is quite difficult. Personally, I never liked the camping strategy. Whenever I use Magnum, I play with it just like Smoky or Rico."

 

i agree with what you say about asl mode, but i see the camping strategy used much more than it should be in all modes. also consider that matchmaking maps are quite different from the majority of maps, and for someone like myself who doesnt have enough money for a tone of supplies to be used in mm battles i find myself playing all different maps, some matchmaking some not. and i appreciate that you and many other may play matchmaking for the most part and not see as much of an issue with it, however through my experience i have seen magnum bee too easy to use for how effective it is in many other maps.

 

"To avoid getting knocked around by Twins, stand with your back against a wall and your aim won't shake as much"

 

im well aware of this, and it works to stop your aim from being distressed, however i also said i think twins does too much damage, if you go against a wall you are forced to take that damage and have little option to try and avoid the shots (i explained about that in the main post so i wont go into any more detail). as i said above i think its reload should be increased slightly, the damage per projectile is fine, but i think it would be better if it didnt fire quite as often. (no suggesting a major nerf to fire rate, just a few tweaks) 

 

" To avoid Firebird, just stay out of range. Yes, with the compact tanks alteration the fire effect becomes extremely powerful, but the energy tank itself only lasts 2 seconds"

 

yes, obviously staying out of range is what anyone would think of to avoid it. and as i said i think firebird itself is fine, the burn effect (used by many different turrets/alts) isnt how i think it should be but isnt overpowered necessarily. also with compact tanks the energy lasts about 4 seconds (normal firebird lasting about 6) and that is more than enough time to rack up a few kills quite easily. and yes if someone repairs then they get rid of the effect, however any kind of somewhat intelligent player will bait the enemy into using a repair, because they basically have to repair or in just a half second of firebird spray they would loose over half there health (medium hull). once the enemy uses repair the firebird shoots again and its all over, no way to counter the damage other than have a titan dome, find another repair or have an isida/freeze next to you, all things that are fairly unlikely. 

 

"Shaft already got a big nerf years ago when the laser was added. Now, in order to counter it you just have to be on the lookout for lasers. I really don't think it's much of a problem these days,"

 

with the speed that shaft charges up, if you are driving through any kind of somewhat open area a shaft will get you. but i agree that the laser gives you away, its quite easy to hide it (especially considering how transparent it is) but it can be a dead giveaway. with that in mind i think a better way to fix shaft would be to make the laser more opaque and to make it have a longer charge time. (similar to how it does in tx if you have played that game). 

 

 "Dictator's OD is very underrated, considering that barely anyone uses the hull in battles It's not easy to get an organised team using dictators effectively, and I have yet to see it in any MM battle. If someone is capable of doing it and it easily wins them the battle, then they deserve the victory."

 

obviously our experiences may vary, but i have seen many teams with a couple dictators and they just dominate, they dont even have to be particularly good players, just as long as they use there overdrive near others. i see why they kept buffing the overdrive, it wasnt getting any attention because people thought it was boring and it became underrated as you said, but i dont think that justifies making it as powerful as it is now. just my thoughts.

 

"For Titan, I'm pretty sure it's already possible to take out a Titan with Viking shooting it non-stop using DD and overdrive. Also it has three major weaknesses - Hunters can disable the shield (and disable all enemies in it too), Hornets can shoot right through it, and Mammoth's OD works through it too."

 

everything you said about titans overdrive is correct. but in the majority of situations i see it being too effective. consider that titan is a heavy hull with very high hp, a hornet using shaft would have to use double damage to kill the titan. magnum too, railgun cannot unless alts are used. a hornet using any gun that cannot 1 shot it wouldnt really work because the overdrive heals the titan as well (im fine with the healing). yes a hunter can disable it, but its likely the titan would have killed the hunter before its close enough. viking also must use double damage, without its very hard to kill the titan and other tanks under the overdrive. im not saying it should get its resistance cut in half, just a slight reduction. 

 

"I feel like you missed the update where Mammoth's OD duration was literally halved, down to 5 seconds from 10. I think in its current state it's much less OP than it was, both for gold boxes and general gameplay. It's very difficult to find enough enemies to drive into when you have just 5 seconds, so I think it's fine."

 

i saw the update when it came out, and i also saw that its cooldown was reduced (as it should be to make up for its duration nerf). but the issue i have with this overdrive isnt the duration, its the inability for it to be killed. i think it should be very hard to kill, but not impossible. thats why i proposed my idea. but yes i agree, its not as powerful as it was before but i still have my gripes with it.

 

"You have some valid points here, but you often forget that the alterations you think are OP also have specific disadvantages to them, which allow them to be countered. I agree that some of the alterations you mentioned are OP, though definitely not all of them. Developers are constantly monitoring them in order to make appropriate balance changes, as you can see from the numerous updates that affected alterations."

 

i clocked that alts have positives and negatives, but i tried to only mention alts where i thought the positives way outweighed the negatives, basically just upgrading the turret. you can tell if this is the case when you see the vast majority of players using some alterations over the rest, for example duplet, almost every hammer i see is a duplet user. the purpose of alterations is to add variety and add another level of skill to know how to counter different ones. im all for that idea but some are simply upgrades. i would like i hear what ones you thought i was wrong about though, so i can either justify my reasoning as to why i think its not balanced, or so i know where i was wrong. i also do take note that the devs are adjusting alts alot, but i mentioned some that arent getting any attention that i still see people using over the rest due to how much easier it is to use.

 

"I fully agree, but you said it yourself - supplies are a vital part of the game economy, and unfortunately at the moment the revenue from their sales is vital for the project's survival." 

 

this is very unfortunate, however i do genuinely believe that if they dedicated more time to releasing more cosmetic then they could make up for it. when xt skins where sold in the shop people bought them like hot cakes despite them being expensive, i think they should only have a skin every other season in the battle pass rather than every season, instead maybe add a legendary paint or maybe an alteration, something that isnt a skin but is equal in value. this way they wouldnt be giving out so many skins in the battle pass, and could put more into a cosmetic shop. i think they would still sell and due to there not being as many in the battlepass it wouldnt be over saturated. 

 

i appreciate you reading all the way through and giving feedback, i have tried to do the courtesy of the same in this reply. also i know it was long, and i know this one was long too, but i wanted to make sure i didnt just bullet point issues that i had, but rather explain why things are bad in the current state, and what could be done to remedy that. i also thought the "1 topic = 1 idea" rule was more about not repeating your idea in another topic (as suggested by the example given). ill keep that in mind for the future though. 1 last thing, im not used to this forum so im not sure how to quote a part of someones reply, hence why i did my own quotation marks, im used to the tx forum so i apologize for that.

[Maf 32,300]

1 last thing, im not used to this forum so im not sure how to quote a part of someones reply, hence why i did my own quotation marks, im used to the tx forum so i apologize for that.

Click the "Quote" button, go to the editor and just manually delete the text, leaving only the part you want to quote. If you want to then quote another post or another part of the same post, click "Quote" again and the full post will be inserted into the editor again.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I think striker should take 3 shots by default to kill a target with medium hull. It's only fair since it has slow travel speed as opposed to Thunder's instant travel hit. Thunder normally takes 4. I know it has the lock on feature too, but for the most part you won't be using it as it takes too long to lock onto a target, so being a handicapped thunder at times really doesn't work well. You could argue that more players have thunder than striker protections, but that shouldn't be taken into account when balancing the game too much I think.

Allowing Striker to kill a medium hull in 3 hits is allowing it to one-shot light hulls (when used with double damage). That doesn't sound right to me. 

 

Striker's projectiles are fast. They may not be instant like Thunder's shot and they may have a low starting velocity but the accumulation time is 3 seconds. That's three seconds to accelerate to its maximum projectile speed. And its maximum projectile speed is very fast. 

 

One thing Striker has over Thunder is that Striker's missiles' damage does not reduce with range. And, it has the lock-on feature that allows it to kill a medium hull faster than a Thunder as well as killing a heavy hull faster than a Thunder. 

 

Striker has a faster reload than Thunder. 

 

That should be taken into account, but yeah, not a primary factor like others. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

hunter, ill keep this one short, good ability, shouldnt stop the reload of weapons, shouldnt activate supply cooldown (just cancel out current supplies) and should have a little less range.

 

titan, as much as i love titan and its overdive, i think it needs a slight nerf. im not sure of the resistance value that it provides but i believe it should be lowered slightly so that a viking using overdrive can kill a titan in its dome. also i think its worth doing an experiment to see if, when an enemy does under a titans dome, it should deal normal  damage since the shots arent passing through the domes wall, bit rather being shot from inside the dome.

 

mammoth, probably the most complained about overdrive, and rightly so. in its current state mammoths overdrive is a problem, and im not talking about for gold boxes, they are just a bonus, im talking about the fact that its too effective. this is my proposition for the overdrive, when overdrive is activated the mammoth can absorb 5000 hp without any damage being done to the mammoths health, in this state it keeps the same movement speed as normal and can kill tanks on contact, the "kill tanks on contact" range should be increased by a 3 meters. once the mammoth has taken 5000 hp of damage the overdrive will stop and the mammoth will go back to the same health that it had before using the overdrive (providing it didnt get healed), overdrive automatically stops after 10 seconds. this will retain mammoths reputation of being a fortress but it will still be killable if a team focuses it.

I agree that it shouldn't stop the reload of turrets. I don't agree with it having less range, and I also don't agree with it not activating supply cooldowns. What's the point in zapping them if they have the potential to fight back and kill you immediately?

 

Dictator and Hunter's Overdrive basically counter themselves. Dictator uses its Overdrive on its allies, then Hunter comes in and disables all of those supplies and activates their cooldowns

Hunter uses its Overdrive on the group of enemies, the Dictator then uses its Overdrive when they're unfrozen so they would have HP, and all supplies activated. And it basically restores their supply cooldowns since by the time the supplies wear off, their cooldowns would already have been done. 

 

Titan's dome gives 85% protection against turrets and mines. A turret with Viking's Overdrive is already able to kill players within the dome. The problem is that if they're using short-ranged turrets, they'd have to be up close to the enemy which would likely prompt them to be shot at. I found Twins, Ricochet, Railgun and Magnum to work great against the players in the dome when using Viking's Overdrive with it. 

 

Regardless of the position of the enemy, the dome will give 85% protection to whomever is in it. If the enemy is shooting the players in the dome, they will still receive the 85% protection. 

 

I'm going to assume that you had been writing that post for days. You mention "10" seconds" in that quote so you're talking about the old Mammoth Overdrive. Mammoth's Overdrive was recently nerfed and I'd say that its effectiveness has went down a lot (at least in my case). Its duration is now 5 seconds and its charging rate has been increases, as well as a slight increase to the speed boost it receives when activating the Overdrive. The two buffs are good but they're dulled down by the 5-second duration. if you make a mistake, it is likely that you cannot correct it before the Overdrive runs out. it leaves almost no room for error. 

 

Mammoth already has two overdrive-counters, and both of those Overdrives recharge the fastest in the game. I think it has been nerfed enough. I'm not sure about increasing the damage radius of the Overdrive though. 

 

 

now for the most important part in my opinion, alterations!

 

Alterations:

 

firebird:

compact fuel tanks: this alteration is the one i was talking about when i said it abuses the burning mechanic. less than a second of firebird contact can kill light hulls with this alteration. its so easy to use, you hardly have to fire at your enemies for this alteration to be effective. its just too powerful and i think the only way to fix this is to unfortunately remove it from the game.

 

magnum:

mortar: essentially all of the problems i stated about magnum before, but even worse because it places mines. 

there are 2 potential ways to fix this, 1 make it so that with this alt equipped magnum doesnt have a splash radius. you can still do damage with a direct hit to an enemy or have them go over a mine but no splash radius. 2 only have a mine place if the shot didnt do any damage to any player. the issue with this alt is that even if your shot misses the enemy, you will do a load of splash damage and still place a mine. a mine should only be placed if no damage is done with the shot or splash damage.

 

shaft: 

rapid fire mode: this alteration just shouldnt exist, its not how shaft should be played. shaft if about high damage in 1 shot, if you dont kill with the shot arcade shots are meant to finish off an opponent, not be the primary mode of shaft. its meant to be the longest range gun in the game yet is too effective at short - mid range with this alteration. 

 

railgun:

electromagnetic accelerator "scout": this basically makes railgun a more powerful thunder. still high damage, pretty fast reload, no damage drop off over range. the fix this the alt should have a penalty for minimum damage, not just max damage. - 25% minimum damage.

the problem with alts that give less damage but faster reload is that it means there is less penalty for missing shots since you will be able to fire again quicker. its less rewarding of accuracy.

large caliber rounds: not so much a problem with the alt itself, but the visuals and sound effect for charging need to be adjusted to be in time with firing. 

 

thunder:

Sledgehammer: again with the "less reload, less damage" except its not less damage. now i know its not 100% efficiency, but the higher damage drop off is compensated by the faster reload so at range its really not that bad, when it is meant to be bad at range. also in maps like sandbox, where its fairly close range, this alt is dominant since its damage drop off isnt effected that much, but you still get the fast reload. to fix this lower the max range of thunder with this alt equipped.

 

twins:

stabilized plasma: basically makes all the problems i talked about before with twins worse because now you cant even counter it by getting close. simply needs to be removed.

 

hammer: 

duplet: hardly takes skill to use,can output damage almost at the levels of shaft, bit with a faster reload and no charge time. on light hulls this is way too powerful as they just hit you for ridiculous damage then run away until they reload, rinse and repeat. not hard to do, doesnt take skill to utilize and ultimately is a cool concept but is just not appropriate in the game.

 

freeze:

shock freeze: too dominant on maps where its easy to single out opponents, with the decreased energy consumption you can output similar damage to a normal freeze (granted in a longer time) but since you insta freeze them essentially the extra time to kill them doesnt even matter since they cant fight back. to fix remove decreased energy consumption. 

 

smoky:

incendiary rounds:event when loosing the bonus crit damage you do more damage with the burn effect, needs a nerf in how much it ignites the target. 

cryo rounds: should freeze the target a little bit more to justify the price 

autocannon: this alteration is the  epitome of no skill, it relies on rng, rng is a bad thing since you dont know how to counter it since its random. also this alteration has almost no penalty for missing shots, making it an incredibly low risk alteration.should either be removed or shoot slower and have corresponding damage stat adjustments.

 

finally, thats it for alterations. now for a few things that i think would improve the game in general.

 

Ah, my favourite part.

 

Firebird:

 

 

I agree that Compact tanks is too powerful. It's a mechanic that makes sense but in practice, it seems to trump Stock Firebird. I would still rather be attacked by a Compact tanks Firebird than a Stock Firebird, since their energy consumption is faster meaning they'd more likely not stay on the target and move to another. Stock Firebird has the energy to stay on the target to finish it off, which makes them more formidable. However, both are hard to fight against when you're trying to time your repair kit supply. Since you have two types of damage to look  out for while also looking at your remaining HP: Direct damage and afterburn damage. In the moment, you may be able to see where the afterburn damage ticks are happening but the direct damage the Firebird gives and when it is given is completely up to the Firebird attacking you and is not entirely predictable. And those direct damage numbers come from 0.25-second ticks which is what would stop your repair kit's healing process if not the afterburn damage tick. And it only takes one tick, after that, if they touch you, you retain the temperature you were at and continue burning. 

 

One thing Compact tanks does is make sure you use your repair kit as early as possible making you more easily killable to the Firebird's teammates. Most Firebirds I see these days are Compact tanks Firebirds and I do believe something must be done about it. it has been in the game for so long, so I doubt they'd remove it; that would piss off many players.

 

 

 

Magnum: 

 

 

I think it was either a mistake or an intentional change when they decreased the damage penalty for using Mortar. A 15% maximum damage decrease is too lenient. However, I don't think the appropriate thing to do here is to remove the splash damage. The Mortar Magnum has to compete with the other Magnums and removing the splash damage is removing a big part of Magnum. How are you supposed to know if enemies are there if you miss the shot and have nothing to guide you? And it is very easy to miss, even by a few centimetres, with magnum. If that change were to be implemented, you'd see no players using Mortar. I think the appropriate thing to do is decrease both the maximum and minimum damage by 20%. And if you're further than 10 metres from the impact zone, you're not gonna sustain much damage. You'd get about 30-40% of the full damage.

 

 

Shaft:

 

 

Why should the alteration not exist? The alteration focuses on Shaft's close-range effectiveness. Arcade shots are now for close range. It is not too effective at mid-range. It is in no way for mid-range because its range at M4 is 70 metres which is the same range as Ricochet, Hammer and Twins, which are all close-ranged turrets. After 70 metres, you'd be dealing 25% damage. This thrives at close range, if it were to shoot you from further than 70 metres, instead of receiving 2,100 damage, you'd be receiving 500 damage. 

 

I disagree with notion that Shaft should only be played as a sniper. Why can't I use my arcade shots for attacking? If I attack with Shaft, am I playing the turret the wrong way? They increased the effectiveness of the arcade shot by decreasing its reload but they heavily decreased the range. So you're not going to be able to finish that enemy on the other side of the map off so easily since you'd be dealing about 100 damage for each arcade shot. And it is not the best idea to stay a sniper when using that alteration. The sniping damage is reduced by 30%. That is enough to kill a light hull but not a medium hull. I don't know what will balance this alteration out but I haven't seen it really dominating every single battle it's put in. 

 

And alterations are for changing playstyles. What if a Shaft player dreamed of being in the front lines and being useful without utilising their sniping mode often? Are you saying they shouldn't have or live that dream? Are you saying they should be stuck in the back of their base like a houseshaft stuck in the kitchen brewing coffee?

 

 

Railgun:

 

 

Railgun itself is a pretty great turret but its alterations are what is causing chaos. Electromagnetic Accelerator "Scout" allows Railgun to shoot projectiles faster than Thunder can even reload. While that seems a bit unfair, remember that Thunder has splash damage while Railgun only has penetrating force. The enemies would have to be lined up for the Railgun to take advantage over multiple enemies. What would be a good fix is also decreasing the minimum damage but only a little, and then make it so that it recharges slower than how it recharges now. 

 

Other alterations are nuisances and upgrades but you didn't touch on them so I won't touch on them here.

 

 

Thunder: 

 

 

I have an idea as to how Sledgehammer Rounds is too effective as an alterations. There isn't much damage drop off, if anything it's the most consistent. And it deals about 800 damage on average for a shot when in range. That is enough to kill an M4 medium hull in 1.72 seconds when using double damage. It is the most frequent Thunder alteration and you would rarely find a Legend player not using it. I find that that alteration makes Small Calibre Charging Machine look unappealing. This was one of the reasons I decided to buy Thunder protection instead of Firebird or Railgun protection. 

 

Lowering the maximum range might do the trick in balancing it against Stock Thunder.

 

 

Twins: 

 

 

You should treat every Twins you see as a Stable Plasma Twins. I have seen that it's generally more rewarding to use that and not Stock Twins. The impact force increase on it is annoying and I usually can't fight back against it. Removing it would not be a good move as too many player depend on it. And it would not be fair for Ricochet to have have the option of splash damage and non-splash damage while Twins only has the option of splash damage.

 

 

Hammer: 

 

 

As powerful as this alteration is, I find it risky to use this on light hulls. It's best to be used on Viking or Hunter. And where this alteration gets its power is from Hammer's balance itself. hammer takes 2 shots to kill light hulls and 3 shots to kill medium hulls; 4 shots to kill heavy hulls. When you add double damage to that, it becomes 1 foir light hulls, 2 for medium hulls and 2 for heavy hulls. And what does Duplet do best? Deposits two shots into the enemy in less than 0.4 seconds (0.27 seconds for M4 Hammer). That's where the imbalance comes in. It had a decrease clip reload, then it had no reload, and now it has an increased reload. They took away a buff, then added a nerf and it's still powerful because of that double-shot mechanic. 

 

This is all you will see in the high-ranks. Only Duplet Hammers. I've seen a few Adaptive Reload Hammers around. I thought I was the only Adaptive Reload Hammer user in the entire game but it seems as if a few players re fleeing from Duplet and onto something that will satisfy their need to dominate with little effort.

 

 

Freeze: 

 

 

What you're misisng out with Shock Freeze is primarily kills. It changes your playstyle to either be ultra defensive or cunningly offensive. It is not advised for primarily killing. Players who use this alteration sacrifice score for their team's benefit. If the player were to use Stock Freeze, they'd get a lot more score from kills and captureing flags while this alteration allows it to capture flags easier but not really kill enemies. 

 

Why should the energy consumption be kept the same as Stock Freeze? Stock Freeze is able to fully freeze an enemy in two seconds. And that's way more damage than Shock Freeze is dealing so it wouldn't be fair for Shock Freezes. They'd probably never kill a player with 50% Freeze protection. The reduced energy consumption is what puts its damage on par with Stock Freeze's. 

 

And you can fight back...by self-destructing. I've seen this tactic used a few times and it honestly surprise me the first few times. They realise that they're not going anywhere so they self-destruct and have full health + supplies to use, while you used your supplies trying to get them frozen in the first place.

 

 

Smoky:

 

 

Incendiary Rounds should have its critical hit ignite enemies for 40% of maximum temperature and not 50% like it is now. And Firebird modules are very prevalent so the afterburn damage's effectiveness is decreased. Some players prefer the instant critical because that can save you from death the second after. 

 

Cryo-Smoky's critical shot decreases the enemy temperature to 100% of minimum temperature. it cannot go any lower than that. 

 

Autocannon Smokies cannot peek-a-boo like other Smokies which puts them at a disadvantage of having to be in the open to successfully kill enemies. I don't know what RNG you're talking about. The damage range for both minimum and maximum damage is decreased by 85%, which tightens the damage spread. If you're talking about critical hits, well then this alteration allows you to hit critical shots more often. This alteration utilises Smokies critical hits to the fullest, that's where it gets most of its damage from. The penalty for missing shots is that you're not going to build up % chance for critical shots if you miss. Hitting every shot as an Autocannon smoky is very important.

 

 

 

another thing that i think should change is protection modules, more specifically there values. the absolute maximum protection against a turret should be 33.3% (m3 fully micro upgraded) 50% protection is a very silly idea, making a turret half as effective is dreadful and reduces variety. if someones got 50% protection, you pretty much have to change turret because killing them just isnt happening. 33.3% protection offers a good advantage still, but isnt as overpowered as 50%. 

And this is where Hornet's Overdrive comes in. Hornet Overdrive allows the user to ignore all forms of protection. If many players have protection against you, you can either use Hornet or, you can just change to another turret like you suggested. 

 

33.3% seems low, especially for the number of crystals players have pumped into them to get it to 50%. 

 

es, with the compact tanks alteration the fire effect becomes extremely powerful, but the energy tank itself only lasts 2 seconds, so it's hard for the Firebird to do kills, especially considering that at higher ranks everyone just uses a repair kit to get rid of burning. I personally use the Incendiary Mix alt that gets rid of burning altogether, I think it's super OP.

Compact Tanks Firebird's energy tank lasts for 3.3 seconds, not 2. 3.3 seconds is enough damage to kill medium a heavy hull when they're both on equal footing. And their 6-second recharge time doesn't help that they can reload their entire energy bar by the time they arrive towards another victim.

 

Incendiary Mix gives a 50% damage boost to the Firebird's direct damage. It is supposed to be 10% but...stuff is happening, *shrugs*. A 10% damage boost puts its direct damage just below the damage Stock Firebird would do every second (afterburn during firing included). A 25% increase would have been nice with the decreased energy consumption but 50% damage boost is too much and the ones I see using it are obtaining a lot of kills. It is unbalanced, even with so many protection modules against it. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[ILiveOnTheChatBox123 936]

In the future, please refrain from writing so much in an idea post. If you want your suggestion to actually be read and considered, short and concise texts are much more effective.

Also, one topic - one idea. Ideas and Suggestions section rules.

I agree-this topic is way too hard to follow since everyone is talking about different parts of the idea. He should make this an AWS piece.

Its probably flooding to just quote everything so far.

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

. 

In response to your points: 

 

shaft: the thing is you can use shafts arcade shots offensively and at closer ranges, similar to how you use thunder. unless im mistaken it does damage right between thunder and smoky with a reload time to reflect that. i feel like the alteration allows it to be just as effective at long range as stock shaft, but too effective at close range to the point its just an upgrade. 

 

hunters overdrive: the reason i think it shouldnt activate supply cooldowns is if someone runs up you on you full supplies, yo activate your overdrive, your already expensive supplies have literally served no purpose. i think the cooldown should last the rest of what the supplies duration would have been. i dont think hunters overdrive is stupidly overpowered, just a tiny bit too effective. to be honest i dont see it as a big issue but just something worth mentioning. 

 

mammoth overdrive: i spent an hour on the post, after the update. what i said about 10 seconds wasnt referring to the overdrive, it was referring to my proposed reword for the overdrive. the rework i proposed isnt a nerf, or a buff. it would be an almost completely different overdrive with mechanics the game currently hasnt seen. yes i agree the overdrive is less op now, but i still dont like the idea of it being absolutely unkillable for 5 seconds, even if it had 27 juggernauts firing salvos at it.

 

magnums mortar alt: you only spoke about my 1st proposition, what about my second? me second was "only place a mine if the magnum doesnt hit anything" i think this would be more balanced than removing splash damage looking back over it. splash damage is important, but the thing with magnum is, especially using this alt, all you really have you do is fire in someone general direction and you will do high damage along with placing a mine even if you miss by a millimeter but still do massive damage. 

 

railgun alts: although the scout alt doesnt have splash damage, it also has no damage fall off over range making it far superior to thunder in almost every way. 

 

thunder alt: we both suggested the same way of fixing it. 

 

twins stable plasma alt: i know how to counter twins, but the issue i have is that i have to work hard to counter it and take as little damage as possible, yet all the twins user has to do is chase me and put a brick on the space bar. it isnt a balance of risk and reward. and as you said, you see most twins using this alt over the rest, when you see 1 thing being used over the rest you know its not balanced and therefore is reducing variety. this is why i think it must be removed. the other twins alts are opposite of eachother, one is long range and the other is short, stock twins should be right in the middle, but all you see is people using stable plasma for the mid range, or pretty much any range that twins can be used. 

and lets not forget, ricochet is a different turret, not another version of twins. having unstable plasma on rico shouldnt make it a stock twins, and as i see it it doesnt do that, it plays differently, therefore i think its an acceptable alteration. 

 

hammer: my favorite turret in the game, i love it, satisfying, powerful but not overpowered, and takes skill/strategy to use, unless you have duplet on it. you said you use adaptive reload, not in fairness i havnt had a chance to try that out however you did say that it takes little effort to do well. if that is the case then i dont think just a +10% reload is enough of a disadvantage for it, but i trust you can report back to me on that one. i personally use hammer with slugger, an alteration that i love because in the right hands its good. the turret turns very slowly but if you have good awareness and can drive well you can make it work. im a an of alterations that take skill to use but pay off if you master it. 

 

freeze: i say the decreased energy consumption should be nerfed because it just cancels out the lower damage, as i said it does take longer to do that same damage but in maps where its easy to single out opponents through standard encounters (happens to be alot of the mm maps) it becomes too effective. and self destructing is never a good thing to do and you are advised to only use it when flipped over. it ruins the game for both parties, the one self destructing as you loose score and potential a team point (and you should never do something to lower the teams score, practically multing) and also makes the person attacking you not get the score. its quite a cowardly thing to do when all is said and done. 

 

smoky:

incendiary rounds: agree

cryo rounds: in that case then maybe the shot should add 25% of the damage lost by no crit

autocannon: smoky, titan, autocannon. you miss a shot? oh well just wait half a second and fire again, hardly makes a difference. oh you just took some damage from people peaking you? dont worry just hit speed boost and repair, you will get to them quick and your a titan so it was only a tickle anyways.

i know that was slightly exaggerated but you get the point. yeah you loose some crit hit build up but you fire so fast that it barely has an effect.  the rng involved is relying on crit hits. the damage it does normally isnt alot so pretty much all the damage is from crit hits. thats the definition of relying on rng, and rng is never (and i mean never) a good thing as it doesnt have any counters, you dont know whats going to happen. granted neither does the user but thats not an issue because its not that great of a risk to them, yet they still get undeserved reward. you really dont need any skill to use it, just hold space (or m1) and go. thats all there is to it. whether its overly effective or not isnt the issue, because you dont know if its going to be effective, since its all rng. its just something that any old fool could use and could either do good or bad, depending on there luck. and the final thing ill say on this alt to solidify that it is truly the epitome of no skill: if you are the greatest player in the game, and you fight the worst player in the game, you both use this alt and the same hull with the same ugrades, who will win? either could win, you can try and make up as many scenarios that you want but at the end of the day its an alt that anyone can get the same (random) results no matter there skill level. if you imagine the same situation with stock smoky, or any other smoky alt, the pro will always win.

 

Hornets overdrive to counter protection: yeah it works, but what if i dont want to only every use hornet if i want to deal some decent damage. the fact that protection is so high reduces variety in hulls and turrets. with a lower protection this wouldnt be the case. not so low that they are useless, but not so high that its as bad as it is now. 35% is probably more fair than 33.3. also the people who spent their crystals on protections and upgrades dont lose anything. you still have the highest protection advantage. here are some ratios; 50:35 m4   35:24.5 m3  25:17.5 m2  15:10.5 m1 10:7 m0.  the protection reduction is across the board, not just max modules, so people who spent there crystals for the highest protection advantage still retain there highest protection advantage.

 

i have mentioned variety alot, reason being that with balanced variety it will take more skill to know how to counter all different things, whether that be hulls, turrets, alts or protected opponents. this could truly separate the average-good player from the great player.

 

thank you for responding and giving feedback, you have allowed me to see some things that i didnt before and i hope i have done the same for you. thanks again.

He should make this an AWS piece.

 

what does that mean?

[XxStriker 519]

That feel when a rail vik with 0 isida defense with DA and EAS kills an m3 16/20 isida on his face which uses a 35% rail module... Balanced

[The-Operator219 1,929]

I think they should make it to where the bomb dies with the Wasp. Otherwise the game is rewarding bad behavior since you just generate OD over time and get free, effortless kills.

[TO_King 818]

 

I think you should make spoilers for Each part.

e.g.

Firebird

 

Firebird is a good turret for DM

 

 

How it works:

Firebird (<---put the text of the topic you are writing about)
[spoiler]Put your text here[/spoiler]

[foxer_XXX 135]

Agreed

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

 

I think you should make spoilers for Each part.

e.g.

Firebird

 

Firebird is a good turret for DM

 

 

How it works:

Firebird (<---put the text of the topic you are writing about)
[spoiler]Put your text here[/spoiler]

hope its better now, thanks

im used to the tanki x forum and this one works completely differently. 

Agreed

are you agreeing to my topic or TO_King's post?

Edited June 20, 2019 by The-Kill-Switch

[r_Given6 859]

Text walls...

 

Text walls everywhere.

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

In response to your points: 

 

shaft: the thing is you can use shafts arcade shots offensively and at closer ranges, similar to how you use thunder. unless im mistaken it does damage right between thunder and smoky with a reload time to reflect that. i feel like the alteration allows it to be just as effective at long range as stock shaft, but too effective at close range to the point its just an upgrade. 

 

hunters overdrive: the reason i think it shouldnt activate supply cooldowns is if someone runs up you on you full supplies, yo activate your overdrive, your already expensive supplies have literally served no purpose. i think the cooldown should last the rest of what the supplies duration would have been. i dont think hunters overdrive is stupidly overpowered, just a tiny bit too effective. to be honest i dont see it as a big issue but just something worth mentioning. 

 

mammoth overdrive: i spent an hour on the post, after the update. what i said about 10 seconds wasnt referring to the overdrive, it was referring to my proposed reword for the overdrive. the rework i proposed isnt a nerf, or a buff. it would be an almost completely different overdrive with mechanics the game currently hasnt seen. yes i agree the overdrive is less op now, but i still dont like the idea of it being absolutely unkillable for 5 seconds, even if it had 27 juggernauts firing salvos at it.

 

magnums mortar alt: you only spoke about my 1st proposition, what about my second? me second was "only place a mine if the magnum doesnt hit anything" i think this would be more balanced than removing splash damage looking back over it. splash damage is important, but the thing with magnum is, especially using this alt, all you really have you do is fire in someone general direction and you will do high damage along with placing a mine even if you miss by a millimeter but still do massive damage. 

 

railgun alts: although the scout alt doesnt have splash damage, it also has no damage fall off over range making it far superior to thunder in almost every way. 

 

thunder alt: we both suggested the same way of fixing it. 

 

twins stable plasma alt: i know how to counter twins, but the issue i have is that i have to work hard to counter it and take as little damage as possible, yet all the twins user has to do is chase me and put a brick on the space bar. it isnt a balance of risk and reward. and as you said, you see most twins using this alt over the rest, when you see 1 thing being used over the rest you know its not balanced and therefore is reducing variety. this is why i think it must be removed. the other twins alts are opposite of eachother, one is long range and the other is short, stock twins should be right in the middle, but all you see is people using stable plasma for the mid range, or pretty much any range that twins can be used. 

and lets not forget, ricochet is a different turret, not another version of twins. having unstable plasma on rico shouldnt make it a stock twins, and as i see it it doesnt do that, it plays differently, therefore i think its an acceptable alteration. 

 

hammer: my favorite turret in the game, i love it, satisfying, powerful but not overpowered, and takes skill/strategy to use, unless you have duplet on it. you said you use adaptive reload, not in fairness i havnt had a chance to try that out however you did say that it takes little effort to do well. if that is the case then i dont think just a +10% reload is enough of a disadvantage for it, but i trust you can report back to me on that one. i personally use hammer with slugger, an alteration that i love because in the right hands its good. the turret turns very slowly but if you have good awareness and can drive well you can make it work. im a an of alterations that take skill to use but pay off if you master it. 

 

freeze: i say the decreased energy consumption should be nerfed because it just cancels out the lower damage, as i said it does take longer to do that same damage but in maps where its easy to single out opponents through standard encounters (happens to be alot of the mm maps) it becomes too effective. and self destructing is never a good thing to do and you are advised to only use it when flipped over. it ruins the game for both parties, the one self destructing as you loose score and potential a team point (and you should never do something to lower the teams score, practically multing) and also makes the person attacking you not get the score. its quite a cowardly thing to do when all is said and done. 

 

 

 

smoky:

incendiary rounds: agree

cryo rounds: in that case then maybe the shot should add 25% of the damage lost by no crit

autocannon: smoky, titan, autocannon. you miss a shot? oh well just wait half a second and fire again, hardly makes a difference. oh you just took some damage from people peaking you? dont worry just hit speed boost and repair, you will get to them quick and your a titan so it was only a tickle anyways.

i know that was slightly exaggerated but you get the point. yeah you loose some crit hit build up but you fire so fast that it barely has an effect.  the rng involved is relying on crit hits. the damage it does normally isnt alot so pretty much all the damage is from crit hits. thats the definition of relying on rng, and rng is never (and i mean never) a good thing as it doesnt have any counters, you dont know whats going to happen. granted neither does the user but thats not an issue because its not that great of a risk to them, yet they still get undeserved reward. you really dont need any skill to use it, just hold space (or m1) and go. thats all there is to it. whether its overly effective or not isnt the issue, because you dont know if its going to be effective, since its all rng. its just something that any old fool could use and could either do good or bad, depending on there luck. and the final thing ill say on this alt to solidify that it is truly the epitome of no skill: if you are the greatest player in the game, and you fight the worst player in the game, you both use this alt and the same hull with the same ugrades, who will win? either could win, you can try and make up as many scenarios that you want but at the end of the day its an alt that anyone can get the same (random) results no matter there skill level. if you imagine the same situation with stock smoky, or any other smoky alt, the pro will always win.

 

 

 

Hornets overdrive to counter protection: yeah it works, but what if i dont want to only every use hornet if i want to deal some decent damage. the fact that protection is so high reduces variety in hulls and turrets. with a lower protection this wouldnt be the case. not so low that they are useless, but not so high that its as bad as it is now. 35% is probably more fair than 33.3. also the people who spent their crystals on protections and upgrades dont lose anything. you still have the highest protection advantage. here are some ratios; 50:35 m4   35:24.5 m3  25:17.5 m2  15:10.5 m1 10:7 m0.  the protection reduction is across the board, not just max modules, so people who spent there crystals for the highest protection advantage still retain there highest protection advantage.

 

i have mentioned variety alot, reason being that with balanced variety it will take more skill to know how to counter all different things, whether that be hulls, turrets, alts or protected opponents. this could truly separate the average-good player from the great player.

 

thank you for responding and giving feedback, you have allowed me to see some things that i didnt before and i hope i have done the same for you. thanks again.

what does that mean?

 

 

Why?  it completely immobilizes a target for a few seconds = helpless. And can do this from afar under cover.  Needs no buff.

 

You say there's no skill with auto-smoky, and yet - because it relies on criticals, it is most effective at long ranges, where the crits suffer no damage loss.  Repeatedly hitting a moving target at long range does require skill. 

You say "miss and does not matter"... well if one of those misses is a crit - that's a large loss of DPS.

 

Any player that can hit moving targets from a distance is demonstrating skill.

 

Regarding your protection rant - there's now 14 turrets.  Modules have 3 protections.  Not a good protection-to-turret ratio.

If you have issues killing targets with 50% module, switch turrets.  I'm sure you'll be able to equip one that isn't facing 50% module.  Even with 3x47% modules equipped my tank dies regularly, depending on the opposition.  In DMs, tanks rarely last more than 45 seconds.

 

And with your "clawback" on the modules players will lose "something".

Player A invests mostly in hull upgrades and gets m4, plus stock modules.  His hulls have 13% advantage over m3.

Player B invests more in modules and upgrades those to 50%.  Has 15% advantage over m3.

Now you claw back the modules... Player B loses a lot more than player A in total protection because you nerfed 1 of 2 parameters.

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

Why?  it completely immobilizes a target for a few seconds = helpless. And can do this from afar under cover.  Needs no buff.

 

You say there's no skill with auto-smoky, and yet - because it relies on criticals, it is most effective at long ranges, where the crits suffer no damage loss.  Repeatedly hitting a moving target at long range does require skill. 

You say "miss and does not matter"... well if one of those misses is a crit - that's a large loss of DPS.

 

Any player that can hit moving targets from a distance is demonstrating skill.

 

Regarding your protection rant - there's now 14 turrets.  Modules have 3 protections.  Not a good protection-to-turret ratio.

If you have issues killing targets with 50% module, switch turrets.  I'm sure you'll be able to equip one that isn't facing 50% module.  Even with 3x47% modules equipped my tank dies regularly, depending on the opposition.  In DMs, tanks rarely last more than 45 seconds.

 

And with your "clawback" on the modules players will lose "something".

Player A invests mostly in hull upgrades and gets m4, plus stock modules.  His hulls have 13% advantage over m3.

Player B invests more in modules and upgrades those to 50%.  Has 15% advantage over m3.

Now you claw back the modules... Player B loses a lot more than player A in total protection because you nerfed 1 of 2 parameters.

i dont see cryo being used very much because incendiary is too dominant out of the 2, and is less expensive. it may just be that incendiary should be nerfed and that would bring balance to them being used closer to equally, but if an incendiary nerf wasnt enough to encourage the variety then cryo should recieve a slight buff, nothing too massive but something to allow it to keep up with incendiary. 

 

my main point with the autocannon alt is that it doesnt matter your skill level with it, you will get the same results no matter what. long range tracking isnt hard, even for slightly bellow average players. also autocannon is as effective long range as it is short, there is too much randomness too it to have skill dictate the winner of a fight between 2 users.

 

and for protection, i dont know who is talking about hull upgrades, in fact i think hulls (aside from some overdrives) are balanced, so maybe im missing the point but hull upgrades isnt a parameter of protection modules. 50% protection offers too much of a sizable advantage to someone using it, there is a reason that you dont see many good games with that high a protection against certain equipment, because it is too much of an advantage. as i said, 35% is alot of protection still, but its not so much that fighting someone with it is almost going to guarantee victory for them. the ability to make your tank half as effected by 3 turrets isnt a good thing, and never will be. if i am missing a point would you kindly rephrase it so it makes a bit more sense, thanks. 

[XxStriker 519]

There are turrets that literally oneshot heavy tanks, if you nerf modules to 35% they'll oneshot protected medium hulls... :rolleyes:

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

i dont see cryo being used very much because incendiary is too dominant out of the 2, and is less expensive. it may just be that incendiary should be nerfed and that would bring balance to them being used closer to equally, but if an incendiary nerf wasnt enough to encourage the variety then cryo should recieve a slight buff, nothing too massive but something to allow it to keep up with incendiary. 

 

my main point with the autocannon alt is that it doesnt matter your skill level with it, you will get the same results no matter what. long range tracking isnt hard, even for slightly bellow average players. also autocannon is as effective long range as it is short, there is too much randomness too it to have skill dictate the winner of a fight between 2 users.

 

and for protection, i dont know who is talking about hull upgrades, in fact i think hulls (aside from some overdrives) are balanced, so maybe im missing the point but hull upgrades isnt a parameter of protection modules. 50% protection offers too much of a sizable advantage to someone using it, there is a reason that you dont see many good games with that high a protection against certain equipment, because it is too much of an advantage. as i said, 35% is alot of protection still, but its not so much that fighting someone with it is almost going to guarantee victory for them. the ability to make your tank half as effected by 3 turrets isnt a good thing, and never will be. if i am missing a point would you kindly rephrase it so it makes a bit more sense, thanks. 

 

 

Cryo... Incendiary is OP.  needs to be nerfed.  Don't buff Cryo because Incendiary is OP. Two wrongs don't make it right.

 

Auto-cannon makes smoky better at long range.  If you want to fight at medium to short range you are better with stock, or something else.

Tracking and hitting targets repeatedly at long range should not be dismissed as skill.  Short range? easy.  long range - not as easy.

 

My point on Protections is ... comes from TWO (main) sources. Hull armor and modules.

Some players may sink more crytals into the former and some the latter.

If you claw-back only one of those sources, you are actually punishing the one who concentrated on the latter. Their overall protection drops further than the who spent more money on hull upgrades.

[Potdindy 866]

I used to not like wasps Od but I do now. I think its fine. It still doesnt compare equally to viking, hunter, or really any others but it can be used effectively. I think its good to give hulls like wasp a good ability. Currently I very rarely see light hulls being used. Hornet sees more than it used to, thanks to its cool OD but was still sees very little play from what Ive seen. Games with light hulls are much more exciting and skill imtensive tham slow, campy, grindfests with heavy hulls.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I used to not like wasps Od but I do now. I think its fine. It still doesnt compare equally to viking, hunter, or really any others but it can be used effectively. I think its good to give hulls like wasp a good ability. Currently I very rarely see light hulls being used. Hornet sees more than it used to, thanks to its cool OD but was still sees very little play from what Ive seen. Games with light hulls are much more exciting and skill imtensive tham slow, campy, grindfests with heavy hulls.

It's sometimes insufferable in the low ranks because Wasps seem to heavily outnumber Hornets there. 

 

From what I've seen, it's rather upsetting to see Wasps that don't turn their turret run up to you (while you're still reversing) and drop their bomb to hit absolutely nothing. Another is them shooting at you and then they stop shooting you (while you're looking at them) and drop their bomb when they reach close to hit absolutely nothing. It looks brainless, to be honest. 

 

I am glad that players in the high ranks are more aware of their surroundings to knwo where and when to use the bomb. 

[The-Operator219 1,929]

It's sometimes insufferable in the low ranks because Wasps seem to heavily outnumber Hornets there. 

 

From what I've seen, it's rather upsetting to see Wasps that don't turn their turret run up to you (while you're still reversing) and drop their bomb to hit absolutely nothing. Another is them shooting at you and then they stop shooting you (while you're looking at them) and drop their bomb when they reach close to hit absolutely nothing. It looks brainless, to be honest. 

 

I am glad that players in the high ranks are more aware of their surroundings to knwo where and when to use the bomb. 

For me the frustrating thing is when they drop it just before you kill them. So even though you eliminated the Wasp, it kills half your defensive force and leaves the flag open for five others to come in and suicide bomb the place up before you can get the chance to stop the flag runner. Totally not speaking from experience here.