category Let's Discuss Game Balance

ILiveOnTheChatBox123 · June 21, 2019

In the future, please refrain from writing so much in an idea post. If you want your suggestion to actually be read and considered, short and concise texts are much more effective.

Also, one topic - one idea. Ideas and Suggestions section rules.

I agree-this topic is way too hard to follow since everyone is talking about different parts of the idea. He should make this an AWS piece.

Its probably flooding to just quote everything so far.

Someone was busy writing a Novel. :lol: :lol: :lol:

In response to your points:

what does that mean?

That means check here Amateur Writingto make this an Amateur Writing Section piece. This section is dedicated to amateur and casual writers who wish to post their work on the forum. Guides, short stories, opinion pieces... you post your articles, we approve them and publish all legitimate written works. They have a minimum how long it has to be-and you already passed that. Users often write guides-so why not make this an AWS piece?

That is the only place most people will read this text wall.

The-Kill-Switch · June 21, 2019

There are turrets that literally oneshot heavy tanks, if you nerf modules to 35% they'll oneshot protected medium hulls... :rolleyes:

hence why i suggested nerfs to those turrets in the main post.

Cryo... Incendiary is OP. needs to be nerfed. Don't buff Cryo because Incendiary is OP. Two wrongs don't make it right.

Auto-cannon makes smoky better at long range. If you want to fight at medium to short range you are better with stock, or something else.

Tracking and hitting targets repeatedly at long range should not be dismissed as skill. Short range? easy. long range - not as easy.

My point on Protections is ... comes from TWO (main) sources. Hull armor and modules.

Some players may sink more crytals into the former and some the latter.

If you claw-back only one of those sources, you are actually punishing the one who concentrated on the latter. Their overall protection drops further than the who spent more money on hull upgrades.

as i said in my follow up, only buff cryo if an incendiary nerf still proves to have incendiary better than cryo, considering its a more expensive alteration. if an incendiary nerf would do the trick then dont fix what isnt broken.

i would argue that smoky is decent at long range with stock, and i do understand what you're saying about autocannon being effective at long range, crits have no damage fall off, but again my main issue with it is that it doesnt encourage a skill gap between users with it.

appreciate you explaining the protection thing again, i understand you better now. and yes i see where you're coming from, it would be more cost effective to upgrade the hull than protection modules, but also take a look at this:

Turret — from 0 to 4000
Hull — from 0 to 4000
Each protection module — from 40 to 400
Drone — from 50 to 500

as you most likely know, this is the new gear score values. total gear score from max modules is 1200. thats considerably less than a hull. and this gear score update was supposed to give more important parts of the tank a gear score according to that. this means that hulls are more important than modules, rightly so, if a hull is more important then it should be more cost effective and accessible than modules that arent meant to be as dominant a part of the tank, and from what i can see modules are too dominant in the sense that they pretty much dictate what turret you have to use. i can understand if you think thats a bit far fetched but im tryng to be somewhat cohesive with the game and what the devs intend, even if that means i have my criticisms.

That means check here Amateur Writingto make this an Amateur Writing Section piece. This section is dedicated to amateur and casual writers who wish to post their work on the forum. Guides, short stories, opinion pieces... you post your articles, we approve them and publish all legitimate written works. They have a minimum how long it has to be-and you already passed that. Users often write guides-so why not make this an AWS piece?

That is the only place most people will read this text wall.

thank you, although i dont consider myself a writer, that is probably a more appropriate place for that topic. im new to this forum so im not sure exactly how to go about that, maybe a mod could move my topic there with its replies and delete this one? pardon my obliviousness but im still trying to figure things out.

ILiveOnTheChatBox123 · June 21, 2019

thank you, although i dont consider myself a writer, that is probably a more appropriate place for that topic. im new to this forum so im not sure exactly how to go about that, maybe a mod could move my topic there with its replies and delete this one? pardon my obliviousness but im still trying to figure things out.

You never heard of control-V to copy?

Its pretty simple.

This can go there.

r_Given6 · June 22, 2019

The topic with the replies can be moved to the AWS by a moderator.

The-Kill-Switch · June 22, 2019

You never heard of control-V to copy?

Its pretty simple.

This can go there.

with replies

The topic with the replies can be moved to the AWS by a moderator.

^^

TO_King · June 22, 2019

Did you know?

You can also put spoiler in a spoiler to make sub topic of a category

e.g.

Turrets:

Firebird:

Firebird is good for DM.

Freeze:

It have a good freezing effect.

Turrets (<---Text of the category you are* talking about)
[spoiler]
Firebird: (<--- Topic name)
[spoiler]Firebird is good for DM.[/spoiler] (<--- Topic text)
Freeze: (<---- Second Topic name)
[spoiler]It have a good freezing effect.[/spoiler] (<--- Topic text)
[/spoiler] (<--- Make sure to close the spoiler)

To add color on text:

Select the text

Click on that thing and choose the color you want to put on

Color texted look good in a way.

Also you can highlight the important area with the color you like.

Edited June 22, 2019 by TO_King

Potdindy · June 22, 2019

If its rail viking vs isida hornet then probably rail will win yes. Otherwise isida will win with viking

XxStriker · June 22, 2019

If its rail viking vs isida hornet then probably rail will win yes. Otherwise isida will win with viking

Sadly no, it was viking isida.

wolverine848 · June 22, 2019

hence why i suggested nerfs to those turrets in the main post.

as i said in my follow up, only buff cryo if an incendiary nerf still proves to have incendiary better than cryo, considering its a more expensive alteration. if an incendiary nerf would do the trick then dont fix what isnt broken.

i would argue that smoky is decent at long range with stock, and i do understand what you're saying about autocannon being effective at long range, crits have no damage fall off, but again my main issue with it is that it doesnt encourage a skill gap between users with it.

appreciate you explaining the protection thing again, i understand you better now. and yes i see where you're coming from, it would be more cost effective to upgrade the hull than protection modules, but also take a look at this:

Turret — from 0 to 4000

Hull — from 0 to 4000

Each protection module — from 40 to 400

Drone — from 50 to 500

as you most likely know, this is the new gear score values. total gear score from max modules is 1200. thats considerably less than a hull. and this gear score update was supposed to give more important parts of the tank a gear score according to that. this means that hulls are more important than modules, rightly so, if a hull is more important then it should be more cost effective and accessible than modules that arent meant to be as dominant a part of the tank, and from what i can see modules are too dominant in the sense that they pretty much dictate what turret you have to use. i can understand if you think thats a bit far fetched but im tryng to be somewhat cohesive with the game and what the devs intend, even if that means i have my criticisms.

Does Gear-score still take into account what paint you are wearing?

You can't just compare two "turrets" and say buff one of them if it weaker than the others. Ignoring all the other turrets+alts is a huge mistake.

Cryo is fine as is. It does normal damage on every shot and the "crit" freezes a tank. It's average damage drops by ~ 50 points and that is more than compensated by immobilizing the target.

The-Kill-Switch · June 23, 2019

You can't just compare two "turrets" and say buff one of them if it weaker than the others. Ignoring all the other turrets+alts is a huge mistake.

im not ignoring all the other turrets and alts though. im not sure where you got that from, i covered things that i saw as things that either where too dominant, didnt have a balance between risk and reward, or just weren't good features. most things talked about took into consideration everything, including some things i didnt talk about because the post was long enough.

wolverine848 · June 23, 2019

im not ignoring all the other turrets and alts though. im not sure where you got that from, i covered things that i saw as things that either where too dominant, didnt have a balance between risk and reward, or just weren't good features. most things talked about took into consideration everything, including some things i didnt talk about because the post was long enough.

"only buff cryo if an incendiary nerf still proves to have incendiary better than cryo, considering its a more expensive alteration."

It seems to me like the only consideration for buffing cryo is it's comparison to Incendiary...

I already gave my opinion on allowing cryo to have some critical damage. Would be OP.

TheCongoSpider · June 23, 2019

Shaft:

Shaft's arcade damage does more damage than Smoky's shots but less than Thunder's. Its reload time is on par with Smoky's. The point of it was to highlight its effectiveness at close range. it needed a nerf for a while because it had the same sniping damage as Stock Shaft which i found unfair. They reduced it which makes it less valuable for sniping and more attack-oriented. Light Capacitors has a 30% damage decrease but it charges faster. Would that mean Light Capacitors is just as effective at sniping at long range than Stock Shaft?

shaft: the thing is you can use shafts arcade shots offensively and at closer ranges, similar to how you use thunder. unless im mistaken it does damage right between thunder and smoky with a reload time to reflect that. i feel like the alteration allows it to be just as effective at long range as stock shaft, but too effective at close range to the point its just an upgrade.

Hunter:

I can see where you're coming from. But a lot of the times, I have to make sacrifices as to whom I'm going to zap. There are many Overdrives on the enemy team that only a Hunter can efficiently stop when those Overdrives come too close. Some recharge slower than others so the ones that have it fast would wreck havoc while I wait for the slower ones to charge. I mostly zap one or two enemies because that's all the map's layout allows me to get.

hunters overdrive: the reason i think it shouldnt activate supply cooldowns is if someone runs up you on you full supplies, yo activate your overdrive, your already expensive supplies have literally served no purpose. i think the cooldown should last the rest of what the supplies duration would have been. i dont think hunters overdrive is stupidly overpowered, just a tiny bit too effective. to be honest i dont see it as a big issue but just something worth mentioning.

And then you have protection modules. I feel as if the players with a lot of protection against you can still fight back and kill you immediately.

For the cooldown activation to last as long as the remaining supplies, I'd say that's too lenient. Given how fast supplies wear off. How about giving them a 15-second supply cooldown activation? I'm not a fan of this change but if I were to implement something like that, it would be this.

Mammoth:

Hmm, I like your idea, the shield numbers could use a buff though. But then what about Wasp's Overdrive? The bomb currently disables the Overdrive. Would it only disable the Overdrive with your idea or would it deal more than the 5,000 damage and kill it? And then with this change, Mammoth will have another counter: Viking. Back when it was 10 seconds, I used to use my Overdrive when an enemy Viking used theirs. With the amount of damage Viking's Overdrive does, I'd be deal very quickly. And then you have Hornet's Overdrive. The 5,000 HP you're talking about is technically protection. Would Hornet ignore that as well?

mammoth overdrive: i spent an hour on the post, after the update. what i said about 10 seconds wasnt referring to the overdrive, it was referring to my proposed reword for the overdrive. the rework i proposed isnt a nerf, or a buff. it would be an almost completely different overdrive with mechanics the game currently hasnt seen. yes i agree the overdrive is less op now, but i still dont like the idea of it being absolutely unkillable for 5 seconds, even if it had 27 juggernauts firing salvos at it.

5 seconds passes to quickly for me to even make game-changing plays unless I'm not spotted and the enemies are grouped together, which is a combo that has only happened to me once since the update.

"magnums mortar alt: you only spoke about my 1st proposition, what about my second? me second was "only place a mine if the magnum doesnt hit anything" i think this would be more balanced than removing splash damage looking back over it. splash damage is important, but the thing with magnum is, especially using this alt, all you really have you do is fire in someone general direction and you will do high damage along with placing a mine even if you miss by a millimeter but still do massive damage."

Magnum:

You can miss by a milimetre and still do "massive damage" because...well...you missed by a milimetre. Magnum's maximum splash damage radius is 1 metre. You'd be dealing 100% damage if the enemy is within that very small range. Then the average splash damage radius is between 1 metre and 6 metres. In that range, you'd be receiving from 99% to 50% of the direct damage of the shot depending on where within that range you were at from the blast. And after that, it decreases from 50% to 5% linearly from 6 metres to 21 metres. That is a big splash damage radius and it would not be fair for the Magnum to slight touch someone for 98 damage and not place a mine.

Aiming with vertical Magnums is already hard to master. And it requires brainwork to remember the different angles and powers needed for different targets from different vantage points. If you can remember it, then congrats, and now, you have to actually use the correct power with the angle you've remembered. Sometimes, a 5% less than intended velocity is enough to completely miss the target. feel like this would be a potential downgrade to it. This isn't even factoring in protection modules. I know that Magnum protection modules aren't prevalent in the lower ranks but they're on the rise in the higher ranks and is really hampering my damage. This is me hitting direct shots on them, splash damage does a good bit less than that (usually) so if you have high protection against Magnum, you're good to go in surviving its splash damage.

I still say that both the minimum and maximum damage ranges should be reduced, maybe to 30% each. Right now, it's basically better to use Mortar Magnum than it is to use Stock Magnum.

railgun alts: although the scout alt doesnt have splash damage, it also has no damage fall off over range making it far superior to thunder in almost every way.

And another thing I hate about this alteration is its retained impact force. Why should a less powerful bullet deal the same impact force as Stock Railgun's bullet? I get knocked around and I run into walls because I can't fight them.

And it's really deadly with Hornet's Overdrive. You can destroy light hulls in one-shot in the lower tiers. It becomes harder to achieve in the higher tiers.

Twins:

Well Stock Twins didn't have splash damage before. They gave it splash damage to stop them form doing exactly what the Stable Plasma Twins do to their enemies: run up on them and jam them to walls. The put the old effect in the form of a cheap alteration with an added bonus and many of the Twins chose that. It's like the change wasn't even there in the first place. Its impact force needs to be nerfed on Stock Twins and the impact force increase on Stable Plasma needs to be removed. Removing the entire alteration would not sit well with the players who use it. It has been in the game for long enough so the damage is already done and you most likely cannot take it back.

twins stable plasma alt: i know how to counter twins, but the issue i have is that i have to work hard to counter it and take as little damage as possible, yet all the twins user has to do is chase me and put a brick on the space bar. it isnt a balance of risk and reward. and as you said, you see most twins using this alt over the rest, when you see 1 thing being used over the rest you know its not balanced and therefore is reducing variety. this is why i think it must be removed. the other twins alts are opposite of eachother, one is long range and the other is short, stock twins should be right in the middle, but all you see is people using stable plasma for the mid range, or pretty much any range that twins can be used.

and lets not forget, ricochet is a different turret, not another version of twins. having unstable plasma on rico shouldnt make it a stock twins, and as i see it it doesnt do that, it plays differently, therefore i think its an acceptable alteration.

I'd say it's a mixture of it being imbalanced as well as the players not accepting the Twins change (by purchasing the alteration and using it all the time).

Both Ricochet and Twins are turrets that shoot plasma projectiles. Both turrets have "Stabilised" and "Destabilised" plasma projectiles. Stock Twins' projectiles are destabilised and Stock Ricochet's projectiles are stabilised. They both have alterations that allow it to access the other's state.It would not be fair (or consistent) that Twins only has one state while Ricochet can boast both states.

I agree with you on Adaptive reload being lenient. It used to be a 20% clip reload which I found reasonable but it was reduced to 10% which isn't that noticeable. I saw the potential it had and avoided Duplet. The price was the only deterrent. The icon for it is very attractive in my opinion.

hammer: my favorite turret in the game, i love it, satisfying, powerful but not overpowered, and takes skill/strategy to use, unless you have duplet on it. you said you use adaptive reload, not in fairness i havnt had a chance to try that out however you did say that it takes little effort to do well. if that is the case then i dont think just a +10% reload is enough of a disadvantage for it, but i trust you can report back to me on that one. i personally use hammer with slugger, an alteration that i love because in the right hands its good. the turret turns very slowly but if you have good awareness and can drive well you can make it work. im a an of alterations that take skill to use but pay off if you master it.

*perfect*

I'm pretty sure my first Hammer alteration was Dragon's Breath, followed by Slugger immediately after. Or maybe the day after, I can't remember. I remember Dragon's Breath being very powerful but I also remember Slugger being (personally) rewarding to use. That reduced turret rotation was horrific though. I imagined how it would be on an M0 Hammer. I also like to use alterations (and turrets) that are hard to use. it makes it more rewarding when you dominate with it, compared to a turret + alteration combo that is outright unbalanced.

Adaptive Reload doesn't really work out in MM battles for me. That was why I was initially disappointed. The Hammer protection modules spawned because of Duplet plus it just didn't work out. I use it in Polygon CP battles because I had theorised in my mind that that was where it would "pump out kills with factory efficiency".

freeze: i say the decreased energy consumption should be nerfed because it just cancels out the lower damage, as i said it does take longer to do that same damage but in maps where its easy to single out opponents through standard encounters (happens to be alot of the mm maps) it becomes too effective. and self destructing is never a good thing to do and you are advised to only use it when flipped over. it ruins the game for both parties, the one self destructing as you loose score and potential a team point (and you should never do something to lower the teams score, practically multing) and also makes the person attacking you not get the score. its quite a cowardly thing to do when all is said and done.

It doesn't really cancel out the lower damage. Spending time on one target out in the open is bound to get you killed by their teammate. The ones I see using it use it in a way that benefits their team and not themselves. And if it takes longer, that's a problem because another enemy can be coming towards you while you're still trying to kill this player and you die before you kill them...orrrrrrr, you can multi-task and catch both of them in the stream and have two fishes to freeze. Although that is dangerous and time consuming but it also puts the enemies at a numbers disadvantage since it would be 7 v 6, in favour of your team.

Shock Freezes usually require a teammate with them. Freeze can do what Shock Freeze does with even more damage. It only takes 1.75 seconds for a Stock Freeze to fully freeze a target. It takes 1 second for a Shock Freeze to fully freeze a target. And Stock Freeze just works better than Shock Freeze.

Shock Freeze does the same damage as Stock Freeze when they both expend their energy tanks. It wouldn't be fair for the Shock Freeze to have its energy tank finish at the same time as a Stock Freeze. A Shock Freeze would deal half as much damage as a Stock Freeze would do if they both had the same energy consumption ate. And it's worse when the enemy has protection against you. That's more damage being deducted from your already 50% reduced damage. I think it's fine as it is given all these factors. And I wouldn't expect equal use of the alterations as one may fit every single user's preference while the others may not. Shock Freeze isn't for primarily dealing damage. if you want to deal damage, you should use anything but Shock Freeze.

And for the issue of self-destructing like that, it saves precious time and could be the decider in a battle (potentially). If you're being frozen by a Shock Freeze that isn't using double damage, then it's best to self-destruct if no other enemy is in sight for you to shoot at. It doesn't make sense dying after 20-35 seconds of combat when you can self-destruct when you see that you're hopeless and your life is going down very slowly. It saves time and you ca defend your capture point from players that are going in at that time. It is a smart tactic to use and I applaud them for showing me it.

smoky:

incendiary rounds: agree

cryo rounds: in that case then maybe the shot should add 25% of the damage lost by no crit

autocannon: smoky, titan, autocannon. you miss a shot? oh well just wait half a second and fire again, hardly makes a difference. oh you just took some damage from people peaking you? dont worry just hit speed boost and repair, you will get to them quick and your a titan so it was only a tickle anyways.

i know that was slightly exaggerated but you get the point. yeah you loose some crit hit build up but you fire so fast that it barely has an effect. the rng involved is relying on crit hits. the damage it does normally isnt alot so pretty much all the damage is from crit hits. thats the definition of relying on rng, and rng is never (and i mean never) a good thing as it doesnt have any counters, you dont know whats going to happen. granted neither does the user but thats not an issue because its not that great of a risk to them, yet they still get undeserved reward. you really dont need any skill to use it, just hold space (or m1) and go. thats all there is to it. whether its overly effective or not isnt the issue, because you dont know if its going to be effective, since its all rng. its just something that any old fool could use and could either do good or bad, depending on there luck. and the final thing ill say on this alt to solidify that it is truly the epitome of no skill: if you are the greatest player in the game, and you fight the worst player in the game, you both use this alt and the same hull with the same ugrades, who will win? either could win, you can try and make up as many scenarios that you want but at the end of the day its an alt that anyone can get the same (random) results no matter there skill level. if you imagine the same situation with stock smoky, or any other smoky alt, the pro will always win.

Cryo Rounds is good as it is because of the randomness of critical hits. By the time the enemy is unfrozen, you can get another critical hit and freeze them.

I see some Cryo Rounds Smokies around and their critical hit is crucial for defending a push on your flag or an enemy getting away with it. And it's about your preference. Do you prefer to ignite them or prefer to freeze them for easier aiming and helping your team out with killing it? Players usually pick the one that technically deals more damage because damage matters too much in the game. The alterations that increase damage whether over time or instantly, are the ones being called powerful.

Shooting an enemy that is very far away whilst they're moving perpendicular to you isn't easy. And the fact that Autocannon Smoky relies heavily on critical hits means every shot counts. And what if the player doesn't have or use supplies. There are more than I expected of them in the high ranks who don't use supplies. A turret needs to be balanced when using supplies against other turrets as well as when they're both on equal footing.

The players I see using Autocannon usually die more often since they have to be exposed in order to deal the full damage. And for that greatest player vs worst player scenario, that would play out only if they're both staying still and shooting each other, which is not the case up there since it unlocks at and players are smart and active. You wouldn't often see players staying in one place and shoot with Autocannon. if I imagine the same situation with Stock Smoky or the others (with them staying still), the pro can lose because of the rng on the Smoky critical hit. If the greatest player is running around and actually using his knowledge, then he'd win. So that same thing can be applied to all Smokies and not just Autocannon.

Hornets overdrive to counter protection: yeah it works, but what if i dont want to only every use hornet if i want to deal some decent damage. the fact that protection is so high reduces variety in hulls and turrets. with a lower protection this wouldnt be the case. not so low that they are useless, but not so high that its as bad as it is now. 35% is probably more fair than 33.3. also the people who spent their crystals on protections and upgrades dont lose anything. you still have the highest protection advantage. here are some ratios; 50:35 m4 35:24.5 m3 25:17.5 m2 15:10.5 m1 10:7 m0. the protection reduction is across the board, not just max modules, so people who spent there crystals for the highest protection advantage still retain there highest protection advantage.

i have mentioned variety alot, reason being that with balanced variety it will take more skill to know how to counter all different things, whether that be hulls, turrets, alts or protected opponents. this could truly separate the average-good player from the great player.

thank you for responding and giving feedback, you have allowed me to see some things that i didnt before and i hope i have done the same for you. thanks again.

Well you have Viking that also increases its damage which basically negates the protection modules. Turrets become more damaging and that damage comes even faster than lower tiers. If a turret (throughout all tiers) has common protection modules, it means it's devastating against non-module users and that the turret itself is common, whether it be rewarding, easy-to-use,or a mixture of both.

The lowest I'd go is 40% for M4. We's have to see how well the turrets fare afterwards to see if it was the right move.

You're welcome. I've been getting distracted while writing this for two days now.

Edit: That's weird, the quotes I had in the response vanished when I posted it, I'll put the text in spoilers.

Edited June 23, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

The-Kill-Switch · June 24, 2019

"only buff cryo if an incendiary nerf still proves to have incendiary better than cryo, considering its a more expensive alteration."

It seems to me like the only consideration for buffing cryo is it's comparison to Incendiary...

I already gave my opinion on allowing cryo to have some critical damage. Would be OP.

ah right i see what you're saying, i say that in this particular case because currently i see smoky players using incendiary or autocannon, the better players tend to use incendiary and then you have the smoky, titan, fully maxed millions of supplies, and auto cannon players who tend to be more p2w than good at the game. i occasionally see cryo, but not as often as i should, not exactly because its bad, but because incendiary is too good and makes almost no reason to use any of the other alterations (aside from autocannon) over it. i think nerfing incendiary would be motivation enough for people to dabble with cryo since i see it having alot of potential in team play and even for singling out enemies.

The-Kill-Switch · June 24, 2019

Shaft:

Shaft's arcade damage does more damage than Smoky's shots but less than Thunder's. Its reload time is on par with Smoky's. The point of it was to highlight its effectiveness at close range. it needed a nerf for a while because it had the same sniping damage as Stock Shaft which i found unfair. They reduced it which makes it less valuable for sniping and more attack-oriented. Light Capacitors has a 30% damage decrease but it charges faster. Would that mean Light Capacitors is just as effective at sniping at long range than Stock Shaft?

shaft: the thing is you can use shafts arcade shots offensively and at closer ranges, similar to how you use thunder. unless im mistaken it does damage right between thunder and smoky with a reload time to reflect that. i feel like the alteration allows it to be just as effective at long range as stock shaft, but too effective at close range to the point its just an upgrade.

Hunter:

I can see where you're coming from. But a lot of the times, I have to make sacrifices as to whom I'm going to zap. There are many Overdrives on the enemy team that only a Hunter can efficiently stop when those Overdrives come too close. Some recharge slower than others so the ones that have it fast would wreck havoc while I wait for the slower ones to charge. I mostly zap one or two enemies because that's all the map's layout allows me to get.

hunters overdrive: the reason i think it shouldnt activate supply cooldowns is if someone runs up you on you full supplies, yo activate your overdrive, your already expensive supplies have literally served no purpose. i think the cooldown should last the rest of what the supplies duration would have been. i dont think hunters overdrive is stupidly overpowered, just a tiny bit too effective. to be honest i dont see it as a big issue but just something worth mentioning.

And then you have protection modules. I feel as if the players with a lot of protection against you can still fight back and kill you immediately.

For the cooldown activation to last as long as the remaining supplies, I'd say that's too lenient. Given how fast supplies wear off. How about giving them a 15-second supply cooldown activation? I'm not a fan of this change but if I were to implement something like that, it would be this.

Mammoth:

Hmm, I like your idea, the shield numbers could use a buff though. But then what about Wasp's Overdrive? The bomb currently disables the Overdrive. Would it only disable the Overdrive with your idea or would it deal more than the 5,000 damage and kill it? And then with this change, Mammoth will have another counter: Viking. Back when it was 10 seconds, I used to use my Overdrive when an enemy Viking used theirs. With the amount of damage Viking's Overdrive does, I'd be deal very quickly. And then you have Hornet's Overdrive. The 5,000 HP you're talking about is technically protection. Would Hornet ignore that as well?

mammoth overdrive: i spent an hour on the post, after the update. what i said about 10 seconds wasnt referring to the overdrive, it was referring to my proposed reword for the overdrive. the rework i proposed isnt a nerf, or a buff. it would be an almost completely different overdrive with mechanics the game currently hasnt seen. yes i agree the overdrive is less op now, but i still dont like the idea of it being absolutely unkillable for 5 seconds, even if it had 27 juggernauts firing salvos at it.

5 seconds passes to quickly for me to even make game-changing plays unless I'm not spotted and the enemies are grouped together, which is a combo that has only happened to me once since the update.

"magnums mortar alt: you only spoke about my 1st proposition, what about my second? me second was "only place a mine if the magnum doesnt hit anything" i think this would be more balanced than removing splash damage looking back over it. splash damage is important, but the thing with magnum is, especially using this alt, all you really have you do is fire in someone general direction and you will do high damage along with placing a mine even if you miss by a millimeter but still do massive damage."

Magnum:

You can miss by a milimetre and still do "massive damage" because...well...you missed by a milimetre. Magnum's maximum splash damage radius is 1 metre. You'd be dealing 100% damage if the enemy is within that very small range. Then the average splash damage radius is between 1 metre and 6 metres. In that range, you'd be receiving from 99% to 50% of the direct damage of the shot depending on where within that range you were at from the blast. And after that, it decreases from 50% to 5% linearly from 6 metres to 21 metres. That is a big splash damage radius and it would not be fair for the Magnum to slight touch someone for 98 damage and not place a mine.

Aiming with vertical Magnums is already hard to master. And it requires brainwork to remember the different angles and powers needed for different targets from different vantage points. If you can remember it, then congrats, and now, you have to actually use the correct power with the angle you've remembered. Sometimes, a 5% less than intended velocity is enough to completely miss the target. feel like this would be a potential downgrade to it. This isn't even factoring in protection modules. I know that Magnum protection modules aren't prevalent in the lower ranks but they're on the rise in the higher ranks and is really hampering my damage. This is me hitting direct shots on them, splash damage does a good bit less than that (usually) so if you have high protection against Magnum, you're good to go in surviving its splash damage.

I still say that both the minimum and maximum damage ranges should be reduced, maybe to 30% each. Right now, it's basically better to use Mortar Magnum than it is to use Stock Magnum.

And another thing I hate about this alteration is its retained impact force. Why should a less powerful bullet deal the same impact force as Stock Railgun's bullet? I get knocked around and I run into walls because I can't fight them.

And it's really deadly with Hornet's Overdrive. You can destroy light hulls in one-shot in the lower tiers. It becomes harder to achieve in the higher tiers.

Twins:

Well Stock Twins didn't have splash damage before. They gave it splash damage to stop them form doing exactly what the Stable Plasma Twins do to their enemies: run up on them and jam them to walls. The put the old effect in the form of a cheap alteration with an added bonus and many of the Twins chose that. It's like the change wasn't even there in the first place. Its impact force needs to be nerfed on Stock Twins and the impact force increase on Stable Plasma needs to be removed. Removing the entire alteration would not sit well with the players who use it. It has been in the game for long enough so the damage is already done and you most likely cannot take it back.

twins stable plasma alt: i know how to counter twins, but the issue i have is that i have to work hard to counter it and take as little damage as possible, yet all the twins user has to do is chase me and put a brick on the space bar. it isnt a balance of risk and reward. and as you said, you see most twins using this alt over the rest, when you see 1 thing being used over the rest you know its not balanced and therefore is reducing variety. this is why i think it must be removed. the other twins alts are opposite of eachother, one is long range and the other is short, stock twins should be right in the middle, but all you see is people using stable plasma for the mid range, or pretty much any range that twins can be used.

and lets not forget, ricochet is a different turret, not another version of twins. having unstable plasma on rico shouldnt make it a stock twins, and as i see it it doesnt do that, it plays differently, therefore i think its an acceptable alteration.

I'd say it's a mixture of it being imbalanced as well as the players not accepting the Twins change (by purchasing the alteration and using it all the time).

Both Ricochet and Twins are turrets that shoot plasma projectiles. Both turrets have "Stabilised" and "Destabilised" plasma projectiles. Stock Twins' projectiles are destabilised and Stock Ricochet's projectiles are stabilised. They both have alterations that allow it to access the other's state.It would not be fair (or consistent) that Twins only has one state while Ricochet can boast both states.

I agree with you on Adaptive reload being lenient. It used to be a 20% clip reload which I found reasonable but it was reduced to 10% which isn't that noticeable. I saw the potential it had and avoided Duplet. The price was the only deterrent. The icon for it is very attractive in my opinion.

hammer: my favorite turret in the game, i love it, satisfying, powerful but not overpowered, and takes skill/strategy to use, unless you have duplet on it. you said you use adaptive reload, not in fairness i havnt had a chance to try that out however you did say that it takes little effort to do well. if that is the case then i dont think just a +10% reload is enough of a disadvantage for it, but i trust you can report back to me on that one. i personally use hammer with slugger, an alteration that i love because in the right hands its good. the turret turns very slowly but if you have good awareness and can drive well you can make it work. im a an of alterations that take skill to use but pay off if you master it.

*perfect*

I'm pretty sure my first Hammer alteration was Dragon's Breath, followed by Slugger immediately after. Or maybe the day after, I can't remember. I remember Dragon's Breath being very powerful but I also remember Slugger being (personally) rewarding to use. That reduced turret rotation was horrific though. I imagined how it would be on an M0 Hammer. I also like to use alterations (and turrets) that are hard to use. it makes it more rewarding when you dominate with it, compared to a turret + alteration combo that is outright unbalanced.

Adaptive Reload doesn't really work out in MM battles for me. That was why I was initially disappointed. The Hammer protection modules spawned because of Duplet plus it just didn't work out. I use it in Polygon CP battles because I had theorised in my mind that that was where it would "pump out kills with factory efficiency".

It doesn't really cancel out the lower damage. Spending time on one target out in the open is bound to get you killed by their teammate. The ones I see using it use it in a way that benefits their team and not themselves. And if it takes longer, that's a problem because another enemy can be coming towards you while you're still trying to kill this player and you die before you kill them...orrrrrrr, you can multi-task and catch both of them in the stream and have two fishes to freeze. Although that is dangerous and time consuming but it also puts the enemies at a numbers disadvantage since it would be 7 v 6, in favour of your team.

Shock Freezes usually require a teammate with them. Freeze can do what Shock Freeze does with even more damage. It only takes 1.75 seconds for a Stock Freeze to fully freeze a target. It takes 1 second for a Shock Freeze to fully freeze a target. And Stock Freeze just works better than Shock Freeze.

Shock Freeze does the same damage as Stock Freeze when they both expend their energy tanks. It wouldn't be fair for the Shock Freeze to have its energy tank finish at the same time as a Stock Freeze. A Shock Freeze would deal half as much damage as a Stock Freeze would do if they both had the same energy consumption ate. And it's worse when the enemy has protection against you. That's more damage being deducted from your already 50% reduced damage. I think it's fine as it is given all these factors. And I wouldn't expect equal use of the alterations as one may fit every single user's preference while the others may not. Shock Freeze isn't for primarily dealing damage. if you want to deal damage, you should use anything but Shock Freeze.

And for the issue of self-destructing like that, it saves precious time and could be the decider in a battle (potentially). If you're being frozen by a Shock Freeze that isn't using double damage, then it's best to self-destruct if no other enemy is in sight for you to shoot at. It doesn't make sense dying after 20-35 seconds of combat when you can self-destruct when you see that you're hopeless and your life is going down very slowly. It saves time and you ca defend your capture point from players that are going in at that time. It is a smart tactic to use and I applaud them for showing me it.

Cryo Rounds is good as it is because of the randomness of critical hits. By the time the enemy is unfrozen, you can get another critical hit and freeze them.

I see some Cryo Rounds Smokies around and their critical hit is crucial for defending a push on your flag or an enemy getting away with it. And it's about your preference. Do you prefer to ignite them or prefer to freeze them for easier aiming and helping your team out with killing it? Players usually pick the one that technically deals more damage because damage matters too much in the game. The alterations that increase damage whether over time or instantly, are the ones being called powerful.

Shooting an enemy that is very far away whilst they're moving perpendicular to you isn't easy. And the fact that Autocannon Smoky relies heavily on critical hits means every shot counts. And what if the player doesn't have or use supplies. There are more than I expected of them in the high ranks who don't use supplies. A turret needs to be balanced when using supplies against other turrets as well as when they're both on equal footing.

The players I see using Autocannon usually die more often since they have to be exposed in order to deal the full damage. And for that greatest player vs worst player scenario, that would play out only if they're both staying still and shooting each other, which is not the case up there since it unlocks at and players are smart and active. You wouldn't often see players staying in one place and shoot with Autocannon. if I imagine the same situation with Stock Smoky or the others (with them staying still), the pro can lose because of the rng on the Smoky critical hit. If the greatest player is running around and actually using his knowledge, then he'd win. So that same thing can be applied to all Smokies and not just Autocannon.

Well you have Viking that also increases its damage which basically negates the protection modules. Turrets become more damaging and that damage comes even faster than lower tiers. If a turret (throughout all tiers) has common protection modules, it means it's devastating against non-module users and that the turret itself is common, whether it be rewarding, easy-to-use,or a mixture of both.

The lowest I'd go is 40% for M4. We's have to see how well the turrets fare afterwards to see if it was the right move.

You're welcome. I've been getting distracted while writing this for two days now.

Edit: That's weird, the quotes I had in the response vanished when I posted it, I'll put the text in spoilers.

Shaft:

(rapid fire alt) i must admit that i hadnt done as much research as i should have here, i didnt remember that the max sniping damage was changed and because of that made the claim that it was just as effective at long range as stock but even more so at close range, for that claim i apologize. i see where you're getting at with shaft, an alt that allows closer range/offensive combat for a longer range gun, while still keeping its long range properties. im all for that idea but in a way the rapid fire mode is too similar to the issues i have with hammers duplet alt, that being you can output too much damage in too short a time, then just run away, rinse and repeat. thats what i meant by it being too effective at close range, but this can also be done at close/mid range (little further distance than rico and hammer). with everything above taken into consideration, i suggest a different fix for it: make the delay between shots a little longer, maybe 0.75 seconds or something like that, something that makes you stay out of cover longer while taking those 3 shots.

Hunter:

as i said my issue with hunter wasnt a major one, i didnt think it was game breaking or anything, and after reading your post there i propose no change for hunters overdrive.

mammoth:

so you asked about some more specific things with this overdrive that i didnt mention. its still an invulnerability effect, but its just not dictated by time, but rather effective hp. what that means is hornets overdrive has no effect, and whatever the last point of damage done to the overdrive is will be absorbed, the overdrive could have 1 hp left and if it gets hit by a wasp bomb then the damage done will cancel the overdrive and the excess damage will be absorbed by it, doing no extra damage to the mammoth. i would still like the overdrive to be strong, but also it should be able to die. currently its only counter is wasp (maybe hunter too, i forgot) so it has a maximum of 2 counters, i think even with its time reduction, having only 2 things that can stop it isnt right. only issue i see implementing this is that depending on the mammoth upgrade, the overdrive should have different amounts of effective hp, so a m3 mammoth should be able to take more damage than an m0, and yes i agree a hp buff would be better than the hp i suggested prior.

magnum:

i see where you're coming from with magnum there, i was looking into changing the mechanics of the alteration, whereas you were looking at changing its stats. i think a stat change could also work, as you suggested.

twins:

exactly as you said, the alteration negates what was essentially a nerf for twins. it simply returns it to a more powerful, easier to use state, and on top of that gives it more impact force. i know people wouldnt be happy with its removal but i genuinely thing its something that needs to be done. reason being that it doesnt keep the same levels of risks:rewards that stock twins has, its not something that can be fixed with a stat change (because the only way to do that is nerf it into the ground then no one would use it but it would still exist for no reason), its the mechanic thats broken, not the numbers. a compensation of 60k could be given to players who bought it, but i just think that no matter what is done to it it will still be op and therefore should go. i get what you're saying about ricochet but when it all comes down to it, the unstable plasma alt for rico isnt overpowered, the stable plasma for twins is.

hammer:

i love talking about hammer, but i wont need to make it long this time. adaptive reload should have a +20% to reload. no higher because then it would be getting too close to the time of high capacity drum that has a guaranteed 5 shots rather than the potential.

freeze

shock freeze and stock freeze, i found it funny reading that because the words look similar, yeah i see your point a bit better now, i would still suggest that energy consumption is reduced by 40% instead of 50 though.

protection stuff:

vikings overdrive takes longer to charge than hornets i think, plus hornet has radar so i wouldnt really compare the 2 for this protection conversation, but i see what your saying. i can see 40%, 10%m1 20%m2 30%m3 40%m4. if it where done by those proportions then i dont think m0 protection should exist, considering how fast a player can get an m1 tank. if it where to be done by the current proportions then it would be 8%m0 12%m1 20%m2 28%m3 40%m4. i would rather go for the 1st set as its a bit nicer to look at and easier for players to understand if its more rounded numbers.

you have some good points there, i hope that this topic serves as some sort of inspiration for players to at least consider some of the things spoke about throughout it, from what i can see its been provoking productive conversations and brings different viewpoints to light.

Boeing_787 · June 24, 2019

An unprecedented amount of work for a single idea

wild001 · June 25, 2019

hey, did somebody realised that one of twins alteration suck af and its heavy plasmagun. Its worst than acceleration alter which cost 20k crys. why so? bonus min and max damage increased and thats cool, but speed of plasma balls decreased like half of base flyin speed and that sucks, bought few hours ago and tryed it, terrible experience. In my opinion it have to be buffed/nerfed, for example: buff speed of plasma balls, because 65% all of em are not even hitting the target, playing with heavy or light hull its not working well, doing way better without alteration. Y'all could probably slightly decrease min/max damage like from 35% to 30/ or so and do plasma balls fly faster, i mean -50% its not good at all, make it -35%. Probably its possible to do that and not only me think that this alteration poo poo. Thanks for spending your time by reading this. Appreciate.

I have M4 twins, and I never buy that heavy alterantion,

twins sits mostly on heavy hulls, unless you are defending a Assult base, your heavy ball rarely hit anyone,

I always use acceleration alternation to chasing enemy on heavy or medium hulls,

or non-self damage one if I always have to fight close up. (better than the heavy alternation in that case.)

Potdindy · June 25, 2019

Twins/Heavy is probably one of the most classic combos in the game. Twins is interesting in that it also works quite well with a medium hull but requires a different strategy. A much more aggressive strat.

GunslingerMongoose · June 25, 2019

Welp, back to playing this game. I don't miss the P2W nor the drugging, but I wanted to test Gauss

After playing with it for a few hours (mind you, super low rank, M0 unupgraded), I've come to some conclusions:

The average damage of the sniping mode is around 850. It rarely rolls 1k, but it almost never rolls below 700 either.
Sniping mode is ridiculously hard to lock on with, even with pixel sniping mouse controls. Couple that with long lock on timer at M0, and you can rarely get a good sniper shot off unless it's a heavy hull or stationary.
The arcade shot mode is a lackluster combo of Shaft and Thunder. It lacks the umph of Thunder and the DPS of Shaft.
Gauss's splash radius is ENORMOUS. It rivals Magnum.
Gauss's range is extremely good.
Its average arcade shot damage is roughly 370

So, it's a Shaft Thunder combo. OK. But it feels lackluster. It cannot oneshot medium hulls, and even struggles to oneshot light hulls (despite its max damage being 1070).

I feel like the first thing that should be looked into for balancing this thing is increasing the sniping damage, but the lock on has to be reworked first.

I suggest either 2 things:

Give Gauss a scope and a laser, like Shaft. This means you can pinpoint target enemies with your shots at the cost of the stealthiness of Gauss's lock on mode
Give Gauss a scope but keep lock on mode. This lets Gauss retain its sneakiness but makes aiming it slightly easier.

After that, the damage would need to be touched up.

Sniping Damage (M0) 640-1070 > 800-1100. A smaller damage spread means more opportunities to land oneshot kills on Light Hulls

Arcade Damage (M0) 290-420 > 350-450. Same as with sniper damage, a smaller damage spread leads to more consistent (and increased) Arcade DPS.

These changes to the damage are hardly game breaking. Since Gauss requires a lock on time that requires direct line of sight and a longer charge time than Railgun, the damage being higher won't harm anything. Shaft will have slightly less DPS in Arcade than Gauss, but compensates for this with the ability to oneshot Medium hulls at infinite range.

Lemme know what you guys think of all this.

I'll also be posting a few alteration ideas for Gauss in the Ideas for Alterations topic (assuming it still exists). Be sure to check there as well.

TheCongoSpider · June 25, 2019

Welp, back to playing this game. I don't miss the P2W nor the drugging, but I wanted to test Gauss

Welcome back!

After playing with it for a few hours (mind you, super low rank, M0 unupgraded), I've come to some conclusions:

The average damage of the sniping mode is around 850. It rarely rolls 1k, but it almost never rolls below 700 either.

Sniping mode is ridiculously hard to lock on with, even with pixel sniping mouse controls. Couple that with long lock on timer at M0, and you can rarely get a good sniper shot off unless it's a heavy hull or stationary.

The arcade shot mode is a lackluster combo of Shaft and Thunder. It lacks the umph of Thunder and the DPS of Shaft.

Gauss's splash radius is ENORMOUS. It rivals Magnum.

Gauss's range is extremely good.

Its average arcade shot damage is roughly 370

M0 Gauss' average sniper damage is 855 damage. It rarely rolls below 700 or over 1k because those are considered to be unlucky and lucky shots respectfully. The distribution of damage looks like this:

That bump in the middle is where the average damage is. That is where you'd see the damage the majority of your shots are doing. As you cna see, it starts to slope on either side, whether it be for less damage or more damage. It is much more likely to hit (in your case) around 850 damage than it is to hit below 700 or above 1,000.

Such is life with being a silent sniper. I don't see why it should be easy to aim with if the enemy doesn't have a sign if you're aiming at them behind their back or to the side. The damage itself is huge for a sniper shot and they reduced the reload after a sniper shot and reduced the time it takes to lock on to the target.

The arcade shot is very handy. It isn't as fast as Smoky's firing rate but its minimum damage is more than Smoky's minimum damage on all modifications. It has higher DPM than Shaft at point-black range and even 50 metres off. The projectile has to travel the distance but it's fast enough to not have such a large impact on the hitting speed rate.

Gauss' splash damage range is 20 metres. Magnum's splash damage range is 21 metres. Where Gauss becomes superior is its splash damage distribution. It can retain 90% of the damage of the sniper shot at a range as far as 12 metres from where the shot hit. Magnum is only able to retain 90% of the damage of its shot at a range as far as 6 metres from where the shot hit. You can hit heavy damage on players that are in positions where you wouldn't expect so much damage.

Gauss' arcade maximum and minimum damage range is the same as Thunder's and Smoky's maximum and minimum damage range at M0 and M4. It varies between those points since those 3 turrets all have different rank unlocks, prices and therefore, different % increases in statistics between each modification.

370 is higher than than M0 Smoky's maximum damage.

So, it's a Shaft Thunder combo. OK. But it feels lackluster. It cannot oneshot medium hulls, and even struggles to oneshot light hulls (despite its max damage being 1070).

I'm going to assume that it "not being able to one-shot medium hulls" is when you're using double damage. It is able to do that and a lot more but it can also not one-shot medium hulls with double damage. Before the change, its sniping damage ranges were tighter. After the change, they increased the spread of the damage ranges but the average damage was kept exactly the same. Now, you can either be lucky and one-shot a heavy hull or you can be unlucky and not one-shot a medium hull.

It struggles to one-shot light hulls because of its damage distribution. It deals a random number of damage within the damage spread. Most times, the damage is around the average damage. There is a much lower chance of hitting very high damage (around 1,070 damage) and very low damage (below 700 damage) than there is to deal around the average damage. So don't expect to be one-shotting light hulls when using the sniping mode, especially when you have higher tiers of Gauss because as you progress with Gauss (M1, M2, M3 and M4), the dmaage range becomes wider.

I feel like the first thing that should be looked into for balancing this thing is increasing the sniping damage, but the lock on has to be reworked first.

I suggest either 2 things:

Give Gauss a scope and a laser, like Shaft. This means you can pinpoint target enemies with your shots at the cost of the stealthiness of Gauss's lock on mode

Give Gauss a scope but keep lock on mode. This lets Gauss retain its sneakiness but makes aiming it slightly easier.

They didn't give it a scope or laser so that it could be unique, just like having a scope is unique to Shaft. Having a laser allows for the enemy to see that they're being aimed at, which isn't how Gauss was intended. And even if a laser was added, that's extra paranoia for the player because there would be 3 turrets that have lasers and you wouldn't know which one it is to know how to respond. I'd expect this to be an alteration rather than a change to Stock Gauss.

Giving Gauss a scope isn't going to make it aiming slightly easier. It's going to make it (from long range) very much easier. And giving them a scope is giving them too much power in decision making. They can choose who they want to lock on to to get the best results, often ending in the enemy team's demise. But that's for long range. For short-mid range, that would be a detriment, since they'd have to stay still (presumably) and that gives them limited view of their surroundings. And where would the scope be on the turret?

After that, the damage would need to be touched up.

Sniping Damage (M0) 640-1070 > 800-1100. A smaller damage spread means more opportunities to land oneshot kills on Light Hulls

Arcade Damage (M0) 290-420 > 350-450. Same as with sniper damage, a smaller damage spread leads to more consistent (and increased) Arcade DPS.

These changes to the damage are hardly game breaking. Since Gauss requires a lock on time that requires direct line of sight and a longer charge time than Railgun, the damage being higher won't harm anything. Shaft will have slightly less DPS in Arcade than Gauss, but compensates for this with the ability to oneshot Medium hulls at infinite range.

Now, I'm not sure if they would increase the damage statistics the same way as you did for M0 but just in case, I'll do it for the other modifications to show how that change for M0 affects the others. Those figures may come in the future but not now.

The average damage for a sniper shot (for M0) would increase by 95 damage. That may not be much but because of the noticeably bigger increase in the minimum damage than the maximum damage, it gives more leeway to one-shotting light hulls. Now light hulls already have it bad enough (in the higher ranks) with all these alterations that allow for one-shotting medium hulls, much less light hulls. Allowing Stock Gauss to achieve a one-shot on a light hull easier would pose some problems with their overall survivability. Thankfully, the damage spread is larger in the higher tiers so they should be less susceptible to being one-shotted than they are in the lower tiers. This isn't even mentioning that light hulls are infesting the lower tiers.

The arcade damage range should stay far apart. If you were to increase it to those figures you put there, then Shaft would fall even further behind in arcade damage on all modifications. If it starts like that at M0, it will get worse the higher you go.

The sniping damage increase may not be too game-breaking but the arcade damage might be. That's one less shot with double damage against medium hulls. And this thing has splash damage if you didn't know.

Where Shaft lacks is the ability to one-shot many enemies with one shot. Gauss can do that because of its insane splash damage distribution as expressed by me earlier in the post. It's not really compensating for anything if nothing was added to Shaft's statistics in the first place.

Lemme know what you guys think of all this.

I'll also be posting a few alteration ideas for Gauss in the Ideas for Alterations topic (assuming it still exists). Be sure to check there as well.

They are alright propositions but the effect on M0 hulls is much different than the effect on hulls in the higher tiers.

I'll be reviewing those alterations.

Michael282 · June 26, 2019

In my opinion, Magnum needs a nerf at lower ranks. If you have an m1 and upgrade it decently enough, it can easily one-shoot light hulls without having to use DD, which is insane. Compare its damage at m1 and m2 to that of Thunder or Railgun, it dwarfs them both.

Plus it also got a reload buff, which makes it shoot at a faster rate. Seriously, how many Magnums do the devs want to see on the battlefield?

I felt like something wasn't right using it, so I decided to purchase Gauss at a personal discount and restart my progress with a different turret.

TheCongoSpider · June 26, 2019

In my opinion, Magnum needs a nerf at lower ranks. If you have an m1 and upgrade it decently enough, it can easily one-shoot light hulls without having to use DD, which is insane. Compare its damage at m1 and m2 to that of Thunder or Railgun, it dwarfs them both.

Now, Magnum on all modifications are able to one-shot light hulls of that respective modification. It's is just unlikely because of the large damage spread.

Now onto the the second part. Some turrets have high prices and low prices for M2s. Isida, Freeze and Gauss are the cheapest M2s. That indicates that there isn't a significant increase in statistics from M1 to M2. Thunder has a big increase in statistics from M1 to M2 (it is the most expensive M1 turret). Thunder also has a high price for its M2 modification but because it already got a big boost from M0 to M1, that boost wouldn't be so significant from M1 to M2 even considering its high price. And its unlock rank is earlier which is also a factor.

Railgun has a big increase in statistics from M0 to M1, but a small one from M1 to M2. Its price is lower than Thunders and it unlocks earlier.

Magnum has a sizeable increase in statistics from M0 - M1 and a sizeable increase in statistics from M1 - M2, hence its price and unlock rank (for both M1 and M2 modifications). And it dwarfs them because of the effort required to directly hit a player. You can't look around you without turning your hull. That's one disadvantage. You can't rotate your turret horizontally (unless you have the Reinforced Gun Carriage alteration) so enemies stuck to you from the side have free reign to kill you. Its damage is high and so will its self-damage be. And vertical aiming is harder than horizontal aiming if you don't have the memory skills to remember certain angles and powers from certain vantage points to hit certain enemies in different positions. Thunder is a mid-range turret. Magnum is a long-range turret. I would expect it to have more damage than a mid-range turret.

Plus it also got a reload buff, which makes it shoot at a faster rate. Seriously, how many Magnums do the devs want to see on the battlefield?

I myself am sure that they did this to increase the number of Magnums on the battlefield and as a consequence, increase the number of Magnum protection modules around. But you have to know how they get that reload time. It's not like they shoot a 0% velocity shot and reload swiftly. No, they have to take 3 seconds to charge up to 100%, shoot, and then they will get the fast reload. My magnum that has a clean reload of 2.49 seconds takes around 5 seconds to reload after a 0% velocity shot. My M0 Magnum with a clean reload of 4.9 seconds (almost 5) takes 8 seconds to reload after a 0% velocity shot.

So picture this, you're complaining that they shoot faster. That is correct, more so in the higher tiers since little to no change was made to the lower tiers (M0 and M1 Magnum). The Magnums have to charge up for 3 seconds to get that fast reload. The more you charge, the less your reload time will be up until the clean reload statistic. I think it needs a nerf in the higher ranks right now but the increased protection modules I'm seeing is already doing that.

I felt like something wasn't right using it, so I decided to purchase Gauss at a personal discount and restart my progress with a different turret.

What do you mean by this?

Michael282 · June 27, 2019

I already understand the price and effectiveness relation, the cheaper the price of a modification the less of a boost it will get from the previous one. Also I do know about the shooting mechanic, I meant that the total time encompassing the charging and the shooting is still small.

Developers have made a big mistake by constantly buffing this turret and its alterations, the buffs are completely overdone. I never bought anything for real money on this account yet I already have the m1 at 8/10 upgrades by mainly finishing missions. Feeling it was too powerful and unfair I decided to switch to a different turret.

wolverine848 · June 27, 2019

I already understand the price and effectiveness relation, the cheaper the price of a modification the less of a boost it will get from the previous one. Also I do know about the shooting mechanic, I meant that the total time encompassing the charging and the shooting is still small.

Developers have made a big mistake by constantly buffing this turret and its alterations, the buffs are completely overdone. I never bought anything for real money on this account yet I already have the m1 at 8/10 upgrades by mainly finishing missions. Feeling it was too powerful and unfair I decided to switch to a different turret.

Mult. ;)

Tidebreaker · June 28, 2019

Mult. ;)

No, he made the right decision. I'm glad that there's people who still have a conscience in this game (which is, under 10%)

Hate · June 28, 2019

Topics merged.

Challenge	Start Date	End Date
1	15.08	29.08
2	29.08	05.09
3	05.09	12.09
4	12.09	19.09
5	19.09	26.09
6	26.09	3.10
7	3.10	10.10
8	10.10	17.10

Pumpkin Grenade

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