category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Signal 329]

Ah ok sir

 

And what about juggernaut? @Spy

Edited September 20, 2020 by Signal

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

12 minutes ago, Signal said:

Ah ok sir

 

And what about juggernaut? @Spy

 

[Cleric 1,385]

Game balance in TO:

NON-EXISTENT

[CrazyJack_EN 3]

I have a few ideas on how game balance could be improved:

Freeze- The freezing level of the enemy's turret should be increased from 10% to 20%, or at least increase slightly with each modification. If this becomes too powerful, then fuel consumption could be increased, or freezing rate could be slowed. Freezing level of the hull should be decreased from 80% to 75%. 

Hammer- Hammer's damage should be increased about 50-100 points per shot, or its reload time between shots should be decreased slightly. Its reload between clips should remain the same. 

Striker- Striker's lock-on time should be decreased slightly. If this is too much, then its damage could be decreased.

Gauss- Increase regular firing mode reload slightly.

Magnum- The wiki says its Mk7/M3 reload is 2 seconds, which is faster than thunder's. The reload should be increased to about 2.2 or 2.3 seconds. 

Wasp- Make it take a bit longer for the overdrive to charge.

Also, while this does not apply to game balance, spawning players should not be able to damage opponents without being able to be damaged themselves.

Edited September 21, 2020 by CrazyJack_EN
Forgot to add something.

[alkyng 3,080]

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Striker- Striker's lock-on time should be decreased slightly. If this is too much, then its damage could be decreased.

Gauss- Increase regular firing mode reload slightly.

Wasp- Make it take a bit longer for the overdrive to charge.

Also, while this does not apply to game balance, spawning players should not be able to damage opponents without being able to be damaged themselves.

Gauss?? are you really want to make it more OP than it

Wasp? Wasp's bomb one of the most useless OD so no need to nerf it, while the fact most players can dodge it, even before the star indicator its to obvious when the Wasp decide to put his bomb, and if he want to bomb multiple players One of them surely have Hunter

Agree with Striker, its really UP compared to Gauss, Imagine after you finally take the 3 seconds lock-on the enemy with your exposed laser.. your rockets mostly dodge the enemy

Also agree with the last point about spawning, but I think its better to remover it completely

[Cleric 1,385]

4 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Gauss?? are you really want to make it more OP than it

That is in fact a nerf. Increased reload time. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Aegis

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

6 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Freeze- The freezing level of the enemy's turret should be increased from 10% to 20%, or at least increase slightly with each modification. 

This will do nothing. 

 

6 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Hammer- Hammer's damage should be increased about 50-100 points per shot, or its reload time between shots should be decreased slightly. Its reload between clips should remain the same. 

I do agree Hammer should get a small damage buff, just as an experiment. 

 

6 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Magnum- The wiki says its Mk7/M3 reload is 2 seconds, which is faster than thunder's. The reload should be increased to about 2.2 or 2.3 seconds. 

I see no reason for this to happen. Magnum's reload is fundamentally different to Thunder's reload. 

[CrazyJack_EN 3]

2 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

This will do nothing. 

 

I do agree Hammer should get a small damage buff, just as an experiment. 

 

I see no reason for this to happen. Magnum's reload is fundamentally different to Thunder's reload. 

Now that I think about it, I think you are riht about magnum. It still has to charge the power. 

When you say that the change to freeze would do nothing, do you mean it wouldn't be enough of an increase?

Edited September 22, 2020 by CrazyJack_EN

[alkyng 3,080]

6 minutes ago, Aegis said:

That is in fact a nerf. Increased reload time. 

Opss , I read it quickly, sorry for wrong

[Mrat13 34]

Why do all CQC guns bar maybe Ricochet have such glaring weaknesses? The maps aren't even favourable to such guns. Meanwhile, stock ranged guns are pretty good, and upgraded ones are well, probably OP.

[Gold_Hunter_PRO 33]

The game is very unbalanced, we play with very high levels, or ranks much lower than ours, or with buyers, who spend on the game and get an advantage over other common players.

This frustrates the players, because they strive to acquire equipment, and in the meantime a buyer has access to tankoins and product kits that are much higher than their rank. While we, normal players, do not even have access to a kit per crystal, and when one appears, it is not the kit we want, that is, we always lose, either to much higher levels or to buyers.

My suggestion is:

a balance based on the equipment of each player, and create battles with this result, a mk1 would not fall with a mk3, a mk5 would not fall with a mk7, etc ... totally unfair things ...

 

Here is an evidence:

https://prnt.sc/uin7vl

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Based on my experiences playing with and/or against turrets, I'll list changes I would make if I were in charge of balance. They aren't to be applied altogether, rather it would likely be some changes happening at one point and testing the waters for others. You are free to disagree with my suggestions and if you wish for an explanation as to why I suggested a particular change, you may do so. 

 

 

Firebird - NA

Incendiary Mix - Energy consumption increased from 100 eng/sec to 166 eng/sec  -

 

 

Freeze - Freezing level of turret increased from 20% to 50% +

Corrosive Mix - Damage increased from +10% to +15%   +

 

 

Isida - Reload decreased to 7 seconds  +

           Energy consumption when attacking decreased from 166 eng/sec to 142 eng/sec +

           Score gained for fully healing an ally reduced from 12 to 10  -

 

Nanomass Reactor - Added 50% penalty to energy consumption when healing -

 

 

Hammer - Pellet damage increased from 120 to 130 +

Adaptive Reload - Increased clip reload penalty from +10% to +20%  -

Dragon's Breath - Increased clip reload penalty from +15% to +20%  -

Slugger - Increased turret rotation speed penalty from -30% to -50%  -

 

 

Twins - Projectile speed increased from 60 m/sec to 70 m/sec  +

Stable Plasma - Projectile speed penalty increased from 11% to 20% -

 

 

Thunder - Increased projectile speed from 400 m/sec to 500 m/sec  +

Subcalibre Rounds - Increased reload speed from +10% to +20%  +

 

 

Striker - Increased maximum projectile speed from 700 m/sec to 900 m/sec   +

Missile Launcher "Hunter" - Maximum projectile speed decreased from +100% to +25% -

 

 

Smoky - NA

Supercumulative Rounds - Decreased critical hit chance penalty from -60% to -50%  +

Assault Rounds - Increased impact force from +35% to +50%  +

 

 

Vulcan - Decreased angle of ricochet from 60 degrees to 50 degrees  +

 

 

Shaft - Recovery rate in sniping mode decreased from 333 eng/sec to 200 eng/sec -

            Arcade shot maximum damage range increased from 30m to 45m  +

            Arcade shot minimum damage range increased from 42m to 60m +

            Arcade shot weak damage increased from 25% to 50%  +

 

Rapid-Fire Mode - Maximum sniping damage decreased by 40% -

                              Recovery rate penalty removed  +

 

 

Magnum - Reduced fixed angle of elevation from 12 degrees to 8 degrees  +

Mortar - Decreased maximum damage by 25% -

 

 

Gauss - Decreased average splash damage range from 12m to 8m in sniping mode -

              Decreased average splash damage from 90% to 70% in sniping mode -

 

 

Railgun - NA

Electromagnetic Accelerator Scout - Increased maximum damage penalty from -30% to -40% -

Round Destabilisation - Maximum impact force increased from +20% to +70% 

                                       Impact force is now dependent on damage dealt

                                      

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by TheCongoSpider
Added Nanomass Reactor change and buff/nerf indicators.

[CrazyJack_EN 3]

15 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Based on my experiences playing with and/or against turrets, I'll list changes I would make if I were in charge of balance. They aren't to be applied altogether, rather it would likely be some changes happening at one point and testing the waters for others. You are free to disagree with my suggestions and if you wish for an explanation as to why I suggested a particular change, you may do so. 

 

 

Firebird - NA

Incendiary Mix - Energy consumption increased from 100 eng/sec to 166 eng/sec  -

 

 

Freeze - Freezing level of turret increased from 20% to 50% +

Corrosive Mix - Damage increased from +10% to +15%   +

 

 

Isida - Reload decreased to 7 seconds  +

           Energy consumption when attacking decreased from 166 eng/sec to 142 eng/sec +

           Score gained for fully healing an ally reduced from 12 to 10  -

 

Nanomass Reactor - Added 50% penalty to energy consumption when healing -

 

 

Hammer - Pellet damage increased from 120 to 130 +

Adaptive Reload - Increased clip reload penalty from +10% to +20%  -

Dragon's Breath - Increased clip reload penalty from +15% to +20%  -

Slugger - Increased turret rotation speed penalty from -30% to -50%  -

 

 

Twins - Projectile speed increased from 60 m/sec to 70 m/sec  +

Stable Plasma - Projectile speed penalty increased from 11% to 20% -

 

 

Thunder - Increased projectile speed from 400 m/sec to 500 m/sec  +

Subcalibre Rounds - Increased reload speed from +10% to +20%  +

 

 

Striker - Increased maximum projectile speed from 700 m/sec to 900 m/sec   +

Missile Launcher "Hunter" - Maximum projectile speed decreased from +100% to +25% -

 

 

Smoky - NA

Supercumulative Rounds - Decreased critical hit chance penalty from -60% to -50%  +

Assault Rounds - Increased impact force from +35% to +50%  +

 

 

Vulcan - Decreased angle of ricochet from 60 degrees to 50 degrees  +

 

 

Shaft - Recovery rate in sniping mode decreased from 333 eng/sec to 200 eng/sec -

            Arcade shot maximum damage range increased from 30m to 45m  +

            Arcade shot minimum damage range increased from 42m to 60m +

            Arcade shot weak damage increased from 25% to 50%  +

 

Rapid-Fire Mode - Maximum sniping damage decreased by 40% -

                              Recovery rate penalty removed  +

 

 

Magnum - Reduced fixed angle of elevation from 12 degrees to 8 degrees  +

Mortar - Decreased maximum damage by 25% -

 

 

Gauss - Decreased average splash damage range from 12m to 8m in sniping mode -

              Decreased average splash damage from 90% to 70% in sniping mode -

 

 

Railgun - NA

Electromagnetic Accelerator Scout - Increased maximum damage penalty from -30% to -40% -

Round Destabilisation - Maximum impact force increased from +20% to +70% 

                                       Impact force is now dependent on damage dealt

                                      

 

Here are my thoughts on your suggestions: 

I won't comment on augments/alterations much since I don't know much about them.

Freeze- I agree with increasing the turret freezing level, but only to 40%. I don't think freeze needs to freeze the turret much more than that to escape fire. If it were to be increased to 50%, I would decrease how fast it freezes or increase its energy consumption slightly. The wiki says the freezing level is 10%, is this incorrect?

Isida- I disagree with this. Isida has the highest damage per second (1000) of the short range turrets without afterburn. If the reload time were to be decreased, it should not be below 8 seconds. Why do you suggest decreasing energy consumption?

Hammer- I completely agree that its damage per pellet should be increased from 120 to 130.

Thunder- I don't think thunder needs its projectile speed to be increased. It works just fine at medium ranges, and shots can be lead at long ranges.

Striker- I agree that its projectile speed should be increased, but why to 900m/s? Do you think lock-on time should be decreased at all?

Vulcan- No comments.

Shaft- Can you explain why energy consumption should be decreased? I think I agree, but I would like to hear your reason. I agree with increasing arcade mode range, but weak damage should remain the same or only be slightly increased.

Magnum- No comments.

Gauss- No comments.

Railgun- No comments.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

17 hours ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Based on my experiences playing with and/or against turrets, I'll list changes I would make if I were in charge of balance. They aren't to be applied altogether, rather it would likely be some changes happening at one point and testing the waters for others. You are free to disagree with my suggestions and if you wish for an explanation as to why I suggested a particular change, you may do so. 

 

Firebird - NA

Incendiary Mix - Energy consumption increased from 100 eng/sec to 166 eng/sec  -

 

 

Freeze - Freezing level of turret increased from 20% to 50% +

Corrosive Mix - Damage increased from +10% to +15%   +

 

 

Isida - Reload decreased to 7 seconds  +

           Energy consumption when attacking decreased from 166 eng/sec to 142 eng/sec +

           Score gained for fully healing an ally reduced from 12 to 10  -

 

Nanomass Reactor - Added 50% penalty to energy consumption when healing -

 

 

Hammer - Pellet damage increased from 120 to 130 +

Adaptive Reload - Increased clip reload penalty from +10% to +20%  -

Dragon's Breath - Increased clip reload penalty from +15% to +20%  -

Slugger - Increased turret rotation speed penalty from -30% to -50%  -

 

 

Twins - Projectile speed increased from 60 m/sec to 70 m/sec  +

Stable Plasma - Projectile speed penalty increased from 11% to 20% -

 

 

Thunder - Increased projectile speed from 400 m/sec to 500 m/sec  +

Subcalibre Rounds - Increased reload speed from +10% to +20%  +

 

 

Striker - Increased maximum projectile speed from 700 m/sec to 900 m/sec   +

Missile Launcher "Hunter" - Maximum projectile speed decreased from +100% to +25% -

 

 

Smoky - NA

Supercumulative Rounds - Decreased critical hit chance penalty from -60% to -50%  +

Assault Rounds - Increased impact force from +35% to +50%  +

 

 

Vulcan - Decreased angle of ricochet from 60 degrees to 50 degrees  +

 

 

Shaft - Recovery rate in sniping mode decreased from 333 eng/sec to 200 eng/sec -

            Arcade shot maximum damage range increased from 30m to 45m  +

            Arcade shot minimum damage range increased from 42m to 60m +

            Arcade shot weak damage increased from 25% to 50%  +

 

Rapid-Fire Mode - Maximum sniping damage decreased by 40% -

                              Recovery rate penalty removed  +

 

 

Magnum - Reduced fixed angle of elevation from 12 degrees to 8 degrees  +

Mortar - Decreased maximum damage by 25% -

 

 

Gauss - Decreased average splash damage range from 12m to 8m in sniping mode -

              Decreased average splash damage from 90% to 70% in sniping mode -

 

 

Railgun - NA

Electromagnetic Accelerator Scout - Increased maximum damage penalty from -30% to -40% -

Round Destabilisation - Maximum impact force increased from +20% to +70% 

                                       Impact force is now dependent on damage dealt

                                      

 

We've already discussed Isida healing and you know where I stand there.

Agree on Magnum and Gauss.

EAS - would rather see the impact get a nerf.  Double the impact of Thunder with ~ reload... ugh.

Edited September 28, 2020 by wolverine848

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Freeze- I agree with increasing the turret freezing level, but only to 40%. I don't think freeze needs to freeze the turret much more than that to escape fire. If it were to be increased to 50%, I would decrease how fast it freezes or increase its energy consumption slightly. The wiki says the freezing level is 10%, is this incorrect?

Understandable. 

It should be 20%. 

 

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Isida- I disagree with this. Isida has the highest damage per second (1000) of the short range turrets without afterburn. If the reload time were to be decreased, it should not be below 8 seconds. Why do you suggest decreasing energy consumption?

The main problem I see with Isida is getting consistent damage with it due to its smaller cone angle and the way it damages enemies. I didn't want to tamper with the cone angle since despite it being harder to aim, it has no damage drop off like Firebird and Freeze do. Protection modules also seem to limit it very much compared to Firebird and Freeze (though this can be rectified with the current hull augments). I didn't want to directly increase its DPS or introduce a secondary mechanic like vampirism, so instead, I improved its effectiveness after it expends all of its energy. It was a choice between 7 or 8 seconds as the new reload and I chose 7 seconds. It can go to 8 as well. The lower energy consumption was also a test to see if both together are problematic or one in particular, and the troublesome one would be dealt with. 

 

Due to the decreased reload, a Support Nanobots Isida can keep someone alive more efficentl after it expends all of its ammo. So to balance that out, I decreased the amount of score Isida gets for fully healing an ally. So Isida stays attack-oriented as the devs intended. Because Nanomass Reactor now has an increased amount of energy to use and a faster reload to help it when it runs out of ammo (Nanomass needs that help especially), I re-added the energy consumption penalty when healing, so that it doesn't become objectively better than the pre-buff Stock Isida. 

 

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Thunder- I don't think thunder needs its projectile speed to be increased. It works just fine at medium ranges, and shots can be lead at long ranges.

I was considering not giving Thunder anything due to how popular it is. A popular weapon generally should not be buffed because it's popular for a reason. So I slightly increased the projectile speed to slightly increase the hit rate from far away. Also as an experiment, I gave Subcalibre Rounds a faster reload (on par with Small Calbire Charging Machine) to see whether or not it would become troublesome or overshadow SCCM or Stock. 

 

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Striker- I agree that its projectile speed should be increased, but why to 900m/s? Do you think lock-on time should be decreased at all?

The increase to 900 m/sec is mostly to increase its effectiveness at close-mid range. I chose one of two routes for Striker. At the moment, using the salvo for Striker is risky due to the high acquisition time and the small grace period. One-by-one missiles are most often used so I increased their speed to see if this will increase the effectiveness of the salvo as well. This is also to see whether or not players would stick to Missile Launcher "Uranium" if they see that the projectile speed for Stock is increased. 

 

Because the maximum projectile speed of Stock is increased, I significantly toned down Missile Launcher "Hunter"'s maximum projectile speed boost. I didn't want it to overshadow Stock if in the case that the increased projectile speed for Stock does not make using the 4-missile salvo appealing or more effective. 

 

The other route was to decrease its acquisition time or to simply let it have a 2-second grace period like Gauss has. I had chose the first one in fear that Missile launcher "Cyclone" may become too powerful as a result of the increased grace period. 

 

5 hours ago, CrazyJack_EN said:

Shaft- Can you explain why energy consumption should be decreased? I think I agree, but I would like to hear your reason. I agree with increasing arcade mode range, but weak damage should remain the same or only be slightly increased.

I think I may have worded that incorrectly. The recovery rate is the rate in which Shaft replenishes energy. For Shaft, that applies to the sniping mode almost 100% of the time. The recovery rate shows how quickly after a sniping shot you get back to full ammo to go back into sniping mode. I would have wanted the past 2 Shaft changes to be reverted, but I decided to mix it up halfway.

 

The current sniping mode for Shaft is too strong, and the current arcade mode is too weak, and this greatly encourages camping.  So I decreased the sniping mode reload from 3 seconds (currently) to 5 seconds (what it was before the buff months ago). I then increased the range of the arcade mode but not all the way to what it was. The arcade shot change was made with Rapid-Fire Mode in particular in mind. It's not in a good spot at the moment because sniping is much more efficient with the other Shafts, and its effective range of the arcade shots (which is what it focuses on) is too short. So I halfway increased the range of the arcade shots and gave them a higher weak damage %. I wanted it to focus on the arcade shots, so I significantly decreased the sniping mode damage, but as compensation, I removed the recovery rate penalty that it has. 

Arcade shot weak damage was increased as compensation for the fact that the Shaft I'm suggesting is objectively worse than the Shaft months ago. So I strengthened the arcade shots as much as I could without putting it back to what it was before.

 

---

 

 

What changes would you make to the turrets? 

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

EAS - would rather see the impact get a nerf.  Double the impact of Thunder with ~ reload... ugh.

Was considering this, but honestly, the damage is more problematic for me. It shouldn't be able to one-shot light hulls and two-shot heavy hulls with that firing rate. 

[Mrat13 34]

How does everyone see game balance, now that Hopper has released?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

1 hour ago, Mrat13 said:

How does everyone see game balance, now that Hopper has released?

From what I've seen so far, it's too much of a gimmicky hull to be devastating in terms of raw power. It only seems to break flag gamemodes and that's it. 

 

It paired with Crisis (anything paired with Crisis, really) is the biggest problem but it isn't what the majority of the playerbase has or will be using anytime soon. Outside of CTF, Assault and Rugby, it doesn't seem to be making a noticeable impact on anything. 

[Viking4s 10,791]

You can't expect any hull to be suitable for all the battles mods and on all the map (except maybe the versatile and ugly looking Hunter).

Edited October 3, 2020 by Viking4s

[AncientFire 1,894]

2 hours ago, Viking4s said:

(except maybe the versatile and ugly looking Hunter).

u wot m8

that is bootyful :<

[Viking4s 10,791]

32 minutes ago, sarim2345_the_master said:

u wot m8

that is bootyful :<

good luck for getting it for free.....

[krish123-super 11]

yeah , i got a idea on how to nerf it : when a player uses hornets OD, the players own protections are ignored by enemies while using scout radar. 

Its a nice idea coz the player gets killed with ez 

[krish123-super 11]

can i know any opinion about my idea ? i don't see any replies 

[alkyng 3,080]

Ok so I have an idea how to nerf Hunter OD - when a player use the Hunter OD  he will be stunned too, like the others..

Are you crazy man why then it's OD when the all will have it 

Edited October 5, 2020 by asem.harbi

[MurderHornet 25]

21 hours ago, krish123-super said:

yeah , i got a idea on how to nerf it : when a player uses hornets OD, the players own protections are ignored by enemies while using scout radar. 

Its a nice idea coz the player gets killed with ez 

Or your team can have a Hornet as well. Remember, it's only the one Hornet with OD active is the threat, not everyone else. Hornet is easy enough to kill as is.