category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Well, originally, when the community wanted Hull Alterations, they were expecting alterations like...

• Less health, more speed

or...

• More health, less speed

or...

• Interchangeable overdrive abilities (ex. a Hunter that drops a Titan shield instead of firing an emp blast)

Not these "Immunities" we're getting nowadays.

 

But yeah, I get your idea. It would take a while for it to be implemented cause we have like....over 100 augments/alterations in the game, but it would work.

[Turtle101 2]

Yes, the immunities need to be addressed. It completely strips firebird and freeze of their purpose, and turns vulcan a long range twins. Pair it with incendiary band and well... you get them shooting nonstop from the point they can start shooting to the point the battle ends with a 20/2 ratio. Their DPS becomes god-tier unless you have heat immunity. They become DPS monsters that shoot for maybe a second to take out 1/2 of a light tanks' HP (why the flat burn damage?), unless they also have heat immunity (which you can conveniently access behind a not-so-low paywall). Meanwhile, the only risk to the vulcan is a [your turret here] on a [pick a hull], using [choose any alt, and don't forget one for the hull] with 50% vulcan protection, Crisis, and millions of supplies.

In every game in which one team has someone like this, that team has a 85% chance to win because they obliterate the enemy team while the rest of the team goes for the objective. Its not like this is uncommon, because I see this in 3/5 battles I am in between the ranks of WO5 and up, and multiple times I have seen at least 2 of them on the same team. Meanwhile firebirds are useless in these battles, and freeze? What's that? (Maybe it is an ingenious marketing strategy for those players to start using isida! Or not, because I don't see any.) This indirect nerf of firebird and freeze is too much and very lazy.

I believe the best remedy is to remove these, or if you must have them, nerf them to 75% burn reduction. Yes, it is still outrageous, but it is better than a flat out burn removal.

There are many other aspects that are simply too powerful (ie crisis, drones in general, hopper on certain modes) but this is obviously one of the worst and least balanced aspects. Just my 2¢ on the matter.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Ohhh, so basically a reverse Adrenaline Augment for Vulcan.
Only you must be overheating at the same time you're losing health for it to take effect?

Also, the Vulcan before January 2020 actually did less damage while it was overheating. This was removed when Vulcan was reworked to the version we know today.
It wasn't as drastic as doing up to 0 damage, but it was similar to your idea.

 

Oh yeah, Vulcan was at it's worst during 2019 cause of the damage dropoff (reduction) it had when overheating.
Of course, Vulcan at the time was generally bad (probably worst turret in the game), so....who knows? Your idea may be balanced if used on the 2020 Vulcan.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Tanker-Arthur

[Maf 32,300]

I know the purpose of this idea, but devs' stance on this is very clear — they don't want to impose any restrictions on particular combinations of augments and turrets/hulls. The only thing we can hope for is a change in the actual augment mechanics, but definitely not something like a pop-up that says "you cannot use this combo".

[mjmj5558 2,346]

13 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Ohhh, so basically a reverse Adrenaline Augment for Vulcan.
Only you must be overheating at the same time you're losing health for it to take effect?

Basically yes. The more time you are overheatung, the less damage you deal.

 

14 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Oh yeah, Vulcan was at it's worst during 2019 cause of the damage dropoff (reduction) it had when overheating.

But since it got a damage buff to, and you can still counter overgeating with heat immunity, i guess vulcan will still be a really good turret, even if this happens. Also, if you are using a light hull and don't have heat augments, i guess you will hardly notice anything.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, mjmj5558 said:

i guess vulcan will still be a really good turret, even if this happens

I agree. On my Vulcan account, I manage to kill at least 2 enemies before the overheating starts. (This does not take into the repair kit effect the enemies sometimes use).

 

Vulcan is just really powerful this year XD

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

• Less health, more speed

or...

• More health, less speed

Here comes armies of Mammoth with "More HP/Less Speed alternation".

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Maf said:

I know the purpose of this idea, but devs' stance on this is very clear — they don't want to impose any restrictions on particular combinations of augments and turrets/hulls. The only thing we can hope for is a change in the actual augment mechanics, but definitely not something like a pop-up that says "you cannot use this combo".

Some make sense together - like Gauss EMP and EMP immunity is fine - there are no contradictions. Mind you the Gauss EMP should suffer self-splash effects if close enough to enemy - just like every other splash turret.

But HeatImmunity and IncendiaryBand do not make sense together.  They conflict with one another and should not work.

[alkyng 3,080]

My suggestion is to make EMP Gauss affect the player himself if was in the splash radius. If not, then remove the Splash effect for EMP. But nope developers just act with their minds and their logics, in Vulcan they contradict themselves directly and made it work with HI. And in this EMP and AP turrets they made it to not work with Splash, and we just supposed to be with their mindset of implementing and thinking about their decisions.

[wolverine848 13,097]

16 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

My suggestion is to make EMP Gauss affect the player himself if was in the splash radius. If not, then remove the Splash effect for EMP. But nope developers just act with their minds and their logics, in Vulcan they contradict themselves directly and made it work with HI. And in this EMP and AP turrets they made it to not work with Splash, and we just supposed to be with their mindset of implementing and thinking about their decisions.

I agree.

Here's the order of my preference.

1) Remove EMP augment from the game

2) Remove splash from snipe and add it to arcade. If it's an EMP shot it should not also be high-explosive (splash)

3) Remove EMP effect from the splash

4) Make EMP affect user if in splash radius.

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

Heat immunity is correct for vulcan.

Ever since they made the 50% fire protection module ABSOLUTELY USELESS in combating the overheating effect, which they deliberately done in order to sell the heat immunity for cash. (look at twins and the splash damage alt, prime example of forcing cash/cry out of you)  

Incendiary band was not needed, but the devs saw a great idea for more cash, and wadda ya no we get IB.

Before all these alts for various combos, vulcan overheated on it's own, so you had to equip fire protection if you wanted to get any good use from it.(which was fair enough)

 Every single thing the devs have brought out over the last couple of years has had some sort of price tag slapped on it.

There were 2 things about vulcan that made it unique, the gyroscope (which now does not work at all) and overheating.

It still has the worst turret turning rate of all turrets, and the upgrades are a disgrace, much like saboteur drone, it skips lots of upgrades for no gain, yet still costs you a fortune to get past those voided upgrades. 

And like i have said in many posts, vulcans supposed OP nature is nothing compared to the flying hack.

Also vulcan does not disable protections/supplies like the OP gauss alt.

There are a lot of OP alts/augments far worse than vulcans set up, AP is just another example of the devs cashing in at the expense of players. They said they had sorted hornets overdrive out, (yeah right) now everyone can have it. And how do you combat it, oh yes, SPEND SOME CASH.

So in defence of vulcan it's set up is just fine, remember it was fine before they disassembled it and put it back together, FOR CASH of course.

I'm more than willing to have the old vulcan back, having said that if they did it would only be for cash, such is their inherent greed.

Whatever the devs say, take with a MASSIVE pinch of salt.

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

Heat immunity is correct for vulcan.

For stock vulcan yes.

Not for Incendiary Band.  IT.  MAKES.  NO. SENSE.

[Mirza7 235]

14 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

• you can't equip IB with HI (or maybe not even with resistance)

There must always be a price to pay for such power, but they can not just stop players from using it, instead +adding [-50% max temp + range reduces heat and ultimately no heat after certain distance; make sense now? ] to HIIB augments would be better. because right now they dont have to rely on actual dmg at all just shower bullets 

14 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

• you can't equip EMP  salvo with EMP immunity

giving effects like emp, armor piercing in every other shot is a terrible design, I can not believe they actually implemented that.

Imagine a company openly creating & selling malwares and then antivirus to render it useless....

Edited December 29, 2020 by Mirza7

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

7 hours ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Here comes armies of Mammoth with "More HP/Less Speed alternation".

I know XD

I was thinking if the alt had existed, it would be more like 10% more health, 10% less speed or something

Not as drastic as say, 50% more health, 50% less speed XD.

[The_one_and_only 97]

So what hull augments were the players expecting to receive exactly? I did not get any of what you guys said up there...

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, The_one_and_only said:

So what hull augments were the players expecting to receive exactly? I did not get any of what you guys said up there...

Well around the 2018-2019 period, players wanted hulls to have "Alterations" like the turrets did. Not "Augments" lol.

One of the most frequent suggestions I saw at the time was being able to change the overdrive effect, and switch the effects of a hull with another.
Like allow Wasp to pierce armor instead of dropping bombs, or Viking to have all supplies activated instead of fast reload, etc.

Many people also suggested health boosts in exchange for speed reduction, and similar.

Basically....unlike today's Hull Augments, with all their "Immunities", players originally thought Hulls would get alterations that would boost one stat, but weaken another stat, to maintain overall game balance.

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

10 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

For stock vulcan yes.

Not for Incendiary Band.  IT.  MAKES.  NO. SENSE.

AGREE. 

IB only gives vulcan the ability to set targets on fire which increases the damage inflicted on a enemy tank. 

Heat immunity is the issue here.

The original module was rendered null and void as a heat suppressor, giving only protection from damage not heat, therefore forcing players to acquire HEAT IMMUNITY for cash. If they did not get this new alt then vulcan was TOTALLY USELESS. I used vulcan with only the fire module on and no H/I, i lasted seconds before i self destructed.

The devs are becoming more adept at thinking up new ways to wrangle more cash out of it's player base.

Roll out the OP alts/augments that they no will earn them mountains of cash, at the expense of game balance for most of the players.

There are major issues with TO, they will never be resolved as long as players keep buying their OP gear.

They will never be resolved as long as the devs are fixated with only the cash aspect of the game.

TO is broken, only the devs can fix what THEY broke. 

   

[The_Voltage 178]

It would be more interesting if IB heat up tank faster and works only if the temperature of the tank is above zero. Now it's triggered by the expiration of the overheating time/ If it caused by temperature, problem with HI will go away. Also with this you can specially trying to heat up your tank by enemies, so it'll be more tactical/

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Well, the title says "Rework", but it's not exactly a "rework", more like an overall nerf....sort of.

Okay, so basically, Firebird (and all of it's alterations - High Pressure Pump, Compact Fuel Tanks), will have their burning effects be the same as it currently in the game:

• 300 Damage Per Second
• Maximum Duration of 10 Seconds

 

However, the burning effects of the following turrets will be changed:

• Hammer's Dragon Breath Alteration
• Smoky's Incendiary Rounds Alteration
• Vulcan's Incendiary Band Alteration

Their burning effects will be as follows:

• 150 Damage Per Second
• Maximum Duration determined by developers (basically, whatever their burn durations are in the game currently)

This would basically have them deal the same burn damage as Hopper currently does - 150 per second.


Overall, my primary intention is to separate Firebird from other burn effects in the game. After all, the only turret based on fire should be given the most effective burning effect, right?

Also....it would be a decent nerf to a combo that everyone except heat immunity users are annoyed by: Vulcan with Incendiary Band and Heat Immunity.
Smoky and Hammer are "collateral damage", but it's to make Firebird more unique for gameplay, as well as make all non-Firebird burn effects have a unified reduced burn damage...after all, logically, they don't shoot visible flames like Firebird does, so I don't see why their burning abilities are just as strong.
 

 

[The_one_and_only 97]

11 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Well around the 2018-2019 period, players wanted hulls to have "Alterations" like the turrets did. Not "Augments" lol.

One of the most frequent suggestions I saw at the time was being able to change the overdrive effect, and switch the effects of a hull with another.
Like allow Wasp to pierce armor instead of dropping bombs, or Viking to have all supplies activated instead of fast reload, etc.

Many people also suggested health boosts in exchange for speed reduction, and similar.

Basically....unlike today's Hull Augments, with all their "Immunities", players originally thought Hulls would get alterations that would boost one stat, but weaken another stat, to maintain overall game balance.

Yeah, you've got a point there, both HI and CI do not make any sense, rather I think that they should only give about 80% resistance. 

So basically, 

HR and CR should give 40% resistance and HI and CI should give 80%, this way those crappy Vulcans with IB and HI will still self-destruct or get destroyed much faster anyway

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

As always my point is proven, just been in battle on main account, colonel with flying hack dominated for enemy team capping three times, every time returning their flag and then escaping with ours. ( A COLONEL against 6 legends on our team)

It needs to be removed from the game altogether, it's advantage is huge.

 And it had emp gauss as the turret, only thing missing was crisis.

Killed the little freak twice so that was something.

Imagine what the flying freak will do against his own ranks.  

You lot still going on about vulcan, get rid of the FLYING HACK, then EMP, then AP, then maybe you can sort vulcan out, until then vulcan with HI/IB is no match for any of those.

Edited December 30, 2020 by SONIC-BOOM
fact check

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, The_one_and_only said:

Yeah, you've got a point there, both HI and CI do not make any sense, rather I think that they should only give about 80% resistance. 

So basically, 

HR and CR should give 40% resistance and HI and CI should give 80%, this way those crappy Vulcans with IB and HI will still self-destruct or get destroyed much faster anyway

Agreed.

The problem with making Heat Immunity block afterburn 100%, is that Firebird depends on it to do damage. If you look at the base damage for Firebird, Freeze, and Isida, Firebird has the lowest damage per second. As such, it needs the afterburn to have an effect in battle, or else you're just better off using Isida or Freeze. It's why Cold Immunity doesn't affect Freeze as much as Heat Immunity affects Firebird, because Freeze doesn't lose any of its damage, due to the freezing effect not doing any damage in the first place.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

15 hours ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

You lot still going on about vulcan, get rid of the FLYING HACK, then EMP, then AP, then maybe you can sort vulcan out, until then vulcan with HI/IB is no match for any of those.

Coming from a full time Vulcan + Heat Immunity (+ Crisis?) user...¿ 

Edited December 30, 2020 by E_polypterus

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

7 hours ago, E_polypterus said:

Coming from a full time Vulcan + Heat Immunity (+ Crisis?) user...¿ 

 

[alkyng 3,080]

Protections after 100%

Hi guys, I have a new idea about protections. I think sometimes protections being really powerful. Like a certain player under Titan's Dome with 50% protection module with Defender and DA. I think it's really powerful, maybe something frustrating when it becomes under 100%, so my suggestion is to make protection could pass 100% in certain cases.

Ok what will happened to player after fighting someone with protection higher than 100%?? The answer, your turret damage indicator will turn into Green and you will convert to heal him. So you should stop fighting and wait sometime until this beast shrink its strength (like Titan Dome disappear) and then continue fighting.

Why this malicious idea? I want to ruin the game more than it's now.