category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[yasgfgfffgf 282]

On 1/3/2021 at 4:48 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

To clarify, I'm not trying to say that we need to make every combo identical in terms of performance. What I mean is, using a particular hull or turret should not be significantly worse. Consider Hornet and Hooper for example. Given a choice, most players would flock to Hooper because it performs significantly better than Hornet to the point where people don't really use Hornet. What I mean to say, is that this should not be the case. Hornet should be buffed so that instead of "Hooper is the most powerful hull and Hornet is one of the weakest so I want to use Hooper". Instead, it should be "I'm a big fan of the way hover hulls handle, so I want to use Hooper". 

The point being, every turret and hull should be, at the very least, playable. In the current meta, Hornet is pretty much completely useless. This should not be the case. No turret or hull should be completely useless. The concept of "meta" discourages diversity in hulls and instead encourages the oppurtunist mindset, where players use a piece of equipment while it is overpowered, and then move on to the next overpowered equipment. All this does is generate high concentrations of the equipment. For example, before Hornet was nerfed, a lot of people used the hull. This in turn rendered almost every other hull relatively useless in the face of Hornet's overdrive, and what that did was simply make the game unbalanced.

why do you think so ?

it doesnt help your team alot but it helps you (depending on the amount of turrets you have, like to play). wasnt hornet oversdrive longer acvtive before the nerf?

[alkyng 3,080]

Hate both ODs, no skills can I do while I'm stopped, just waiting for 3 seconds without doing anything, hate such a situation of the game nowadays. Really disgusting

[Akame 4,578]

The game can never be balanced, and each mode has it's own meta mainly, you have titan defenders for sge often, most of these with smoky autocanon or vulcan, then ctf/rgb/asl attack you have hoppers with defenders or crisis, TJR you have Vikings with hammer/rico/thunder and so on.

Along with a common combo 'XP' in every mode. Meta's are not easy to get rid off, especially when overdrives and different modes exist.

Soon who knows, Crusader Booster adrenaline may outdo viking OD for TJR.

Meta's may only change after game updates the items and tweaks values still, can't just say, instead I would suggest, make a suggestion to rework some hulls/augments etc.

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:17 PM, Tanker-Arthur said:

Freezing effect doesn't drop flags or balls, I don't see why 100% movement reduction does it anyway.

Crusader and dictator have the freeze status for their OD though. 

Whilst hunter and hopper stun.

Hunter the only one that does an EMP.

Crusader and Hornet can deal AP, although different duration and ranges.

Hopper can deal a burning status.

3 of 5 of the statuses can be inflicted by 2 hulls whilst the remaining 2 by 1 hull only.

Maybe the next hull will do an EMP and an AoE burn?

[wolverine848 13,097]

21 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Yes, but forcing the player to drop the flag or the ball is a bit much. Stunning should only halt movement speed and turret reload.

Why?   It's short range - the hunter has to get close.

Some ODs give massive damage that allow killing a tank to be easy.  Flag is dropped then right?

The stun at short range is no more of an advantage those those massive damage-dealing ODs give.

Besides - when you come to a sudden (complete) stop from full speed it's not unexpected you will drop something - especially if you no longer have motor-control.

[Spy 14,687]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:44 PM, mjmj5558 said:

 

Topic merged.

[enri_chill 135]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:00 AM, Tanker-Arthur said:

Like @wolverine848 said, those people don't know when to evade enemy fire XD
 

At upper ranks, stay mobile and aware or die very, very fast...whether it is a wasp dropping a love package on your backside while camping, a shaft zeroing in on you, or 2-3 enemy rails converging on you as a sitting duck. Got to move, stay aware, and use coverage. My non-primary account ranked up too fast and I had to choose to go all in on a combo...vulcan-viking (V2) it is. I look for players like you are describing. Easy pickings:)

[The_Resistance 135]

On 1/6/2021 at 11:32 PM, Tanker-Arthur said:

Yes, but forcing the player to drop the flag or the ball is a bit much. Stunning should only halt movement speed and turret reload.

This is the whole idea behind stun. It works only in close combat and applies by only 2 ODs, one of wich throw the stuner away from the ball/flag.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:48 PM, wolverine848 said:

Why?   It's short range - the hunter has to get close.

Some ODs give massive damage that allow killing a tank to be easy.  Flag is dropped then right?

The stun at short range is no more of an advantage those those massive damage-dealing ODs give.

Besides - when you come to a sudden (complete) stop from full speed it's not unexpected you will drop something - especially if you no longer have motor-control.

 

18 hours ago, The_Resistance said:

This is the whole idea behind stun. It works only in close combat and applies by only 2 ODs, one of wich throw the stuner away from the ball/flag.

The thing about Hunter's stun is that it also disables the enemy overdrives.

It can effectively disable the overdrives of any other hull except Crusader. (yeah, it can disable Ares' lightning ball if you time the stun right)


Honestly, I feel like the whole idea of being able to disable enemy overdrives is strong enough for Hunter. It doesn't need to drop flags or balls.
Sure, Viking, Ares, and Wasp can inadvertently drop the enemy's flag/ball when they kill them, but Hunter can stop the Viking, Ares, and Wasp from doing so with a well timed overdrive.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just delete Augments and only keep Alterations.

Boom, a year of imbalance solved.

[wolverine848 13,097]

11 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

 

The thing about Hunter's stun is that it also disables the enemy overdrives.

It can effectively disable the overdrives of any other hull except Crusader. (yeah, it can disable Ares' lightning ball if you time the stun right)


Honestly, I feel like the whole idea of being able to disable enemy overdrives is strong enough for Hunter. It doesn't need to drop flags or balls.
Sure, Viking, Ares, and Wasp can inadvertently drop the enemy's flag/ball when they kill them, but Hunter can stop the Viking, Ares, and Wasp from doing so with a well timed overdrive.

Hunter does not disable all enemy overdives.

Viking OD is "temporarily interrupted" - weird.  Mammoth keeps OD - and can kill a Hunter that does not run.  And since hornet AP is applied to target that is not affected.  Hopper has no delay so most of the time wins that battle.

And key in your post is "well-timed".  I've used Hunter a lot, but I still lose the attempt - mainly because of the delay - about 25% to 33% of the time.  Ranged turrets and ranged ODs can nullify Hunter.  And the worst part is Hunter seems to get the worst OD retention because of failure.  Often down to ZERO with nothing to show for it.

Edited January 10, 2021 by wolverine848

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:45 PM, mjmj5558 said:

 

Topic merged.

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/3/2021 at 1:41 PM, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

 

Topic merged.

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/2/2021 at 3:39 PM, krish123_super said:

 

Topic merged.

[Spy 14,687]

The first suggestion seems fine, but I didn't understand the second one.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

I honestly think Incendiary Band is a balanced Alteration.

The big problem is Heat Immunity, and if we were to remove Heat Immunity and all the other Hull Augments, than Incendiary Band would be perfectly fine. 


I honestly don't want Turret Alterations to be changed just because they were indirectly affected by a Hull Augment.

Because if you nerf Incendiary Band, than the people who don't have Heat Immunity but do have Incendiary Band will suffer. They literally just bought a downgrade for 249,000 Crystals.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

2 hours ago, Spy said:

The first suggestion seems fine, but I didn't understand the second one.

I think he meant...

If you are caught in the splash radius of the salvo, not only will you deal self-damage, but you will also remove your own supplies. :D

It's a good idea, not gonna lie. You have to maintain a distance of 20 meters (4 Viking Lengths) in order to not remove your own supplies.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

56 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

honestly don't want Turret Alterations to be changed

*Augments, there are still more op turrets augments than balanced ones.

[Spy 14,687]

3 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

It's a good idea, not gonna lie. You have to maintain a distance of 20 meters (4 Viking Lengths) in order to not remove your own supplies.

Thanks for the explanation! And yes, it's a good idea.

[philipp366 10]

Vulcan domintaes in almost every game mode.

So ive been playing for some weeks now, after a huge break from tanki.

I didnt play for 8 years or so. And now i see all the great turrets. But i find it interesting that in every game i see 1 guy or even more running Vulcan + Heavy Tank

Especially Titan. In CP especially they just sit on the point, do the shield thingy and then they may even have this heat alteration and just blast trough every tank bit by bit, then they even have some Isada or even more guys with the same loadout. 

I really dont know what to think about this, in my eyes it is really strong.. Countering is possible with Hunter but you 1. need to get in range if that is possible 2. you need your OD ready.

 

I suggest looking into this

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/9/2021 at 2:44 PM, krish123_super said:

 

Topic merged.

[EmeraldCat 562]

I'd like to suggest an idea to fix Railgun, because currently in battles, Railgun seems to be popular with the modules. Falcon is one of the most used modules in the game and it's because it's a popular turret. Railgun does not have all these Modules against it because it's overpowered, as a matter of fact, there's not much wrong with Railgun. It's the fact that the game has made Railgun very popular in different ways, which makes a lot of people use it. I believe nerfing Railgun to make less people use it will greatly decrease the amount of Falcon modules that are being used.

Here are the changes:

Railgun's penetration will now be at 50% for all Mk's. So, no matter how upgraded Railgun is, it will be stuck at 50%. For those of you who don't know how penetration works, it is the amount of damage that the 2nd tank you hit in 1 shot will deal. As for the 50%, that shot will deal 50% of the damage that your shot did to the 1st tank. If there's a 3rd tank, then it will deal 50% as much damage as the 2nd tank received, and so on.

Railgun's charge time will be decreased. But not at Mk1. Mk1 Railgun will keep its charge time at 4.4 seconds. But Mk7 20/20 will have a charge time of  3.3 seconds, instead of 2.6 seconds.
 

Reasons for the changes:

Why shouldn't Railgun upgrade its penetration anymore? Because I truly believe percent-based stats should never be upgraded. Percentages are based off other factors that are already being upgraded. Take Smoky's critical chance for example, it has a chance to deal critical damage at Mk1 with 11.5%, meaning, 1/10 shots is going to be a critical shot. but, at Mk7 20/20, the critical chance is 20.2%, meaning 1/5 shots is going to contain a critical bullet. But the thing is, Smoky's reload increases, meaning if smoky's reload increases, the chances of getting critical shots is a lot faster, so you're basically having a massive damage boost with Smoky compared to other turrets. What makes this worse, is that the chances of a critical shot are even greater due to the fact that it doesn't go "9 bullets then critical, 9 bullets then critical, 9 bullets then critical." Each time you fire, the chance of a critical bullet increases every time by 11.5%, which is why it's rare to shoot 9 bullets and get no critical. Of course, this isn't a topic about how Smoky has a percentage problem too, this is Railgun's problem. As for the penetration, it depends on your railgun's damage, so if it's 50%, and my Railgun deals 800 damage, it will deal 400 damage, but if it's 100% and I deal 1600 damage, that means that the second tank I hit will be hit with a bullet that got a 4x power boost from Mk1. Keeping percent based stats un-upgradable will keep game balance from breaking.

As for Railgun's reload, from the looks of it, excluding the melee turrets, every turret decreases its reload from Mk1-Mk7 20/20 to about 20-25%. Let me explain what I mean by 20-25%. Take Thunder for example, it's Mk1 reload is 3 seconds. it's Mk7 20/20 reload is 2.2 seconds. 3-25% equals 2.25. So, thunder is roughly close to -25% reload time from Mk1-Mk7 20/20. Every other turret is quite similar with Thunder. But Railgun decreases its reload by over 40%. That is a huge percentage, compared to what the other turrets get. I believe this to help balance Railgun out as well.

 

These are all the changes I believe Railgun should receive.

[Maf 32,300]

4 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

As for the penetration, it depends on your railgun's damage, so if it's 50%, and my Railgun deals 800 damage, it will deal 400 damage, but if it's 100% and I deal 1600 damage, that means that the second tank I hit will be hit with a bullet that got a 4x power boost from Mk1.

What do you think about Hyperspace Rounds?  

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

If the turret has consistently been the most popular and so were the protection modules, why nerf it? That will only hurt the ones that stick with the turret after the nerf. 

 

What needs to be nerfed is its augments and not the base turret, but I'm afraid they're justified since they're called "Augments" now. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by TheCongoSpider

[Maf 32,300]

4 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

So, thunder is roughly close to -25% reload time from Mk1-Mk7 20/20. Every other turret is quite similar with Thunder. But Railgun decreases its reload by over 40%. That is a huge percentage, compared to what the other turrets get. I believe this to help balance Railgun out as well.

Thing is, if game balance was that easy, @Opex-Rah would be out of a job. In reality, balancing turret upgrades throughout the ranks is far from just making sure that the damage and reload increases in a linear and proportional fashion for all turrets. All turrets have vastly different shooting mechanics, and other major differences such as effective range, ability to shoot multiple enemies, application of status effects, impact force, and even turret rotation speed. All of this needs to be taken into account when balancing the game, and I'm sure there's a good reason for why Thunder and Railgun have different reload speed increases.

I'm not saying that balance in Tanki is perfect, but I am saying that your approach towards judging it is not quite right. I also don't really understand why penetration is the stat you decided to target in your nerf. To me it feels like a mechanic that doesn't come into play often enough to drastically affect balance with the change you suggest.
Most people will agree with me here that if Railgun were to get a nerf, it should be regarding things like LCR, Scout and AP augments, as opposed to penetration.