category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[alkyng 3,080]

8 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

You got a point, Tanki has had a bad history with afterburn. But you got that all wrong. The devs didn't nerf Vulcan because of Incendiary Bands, it was because the Isida-Vulcan combo got super strong when Vulcan got the buff from the indirect burning nerf. Lemme go in depth on what I mean...

I have read all of your wall, but I have a point in this. Vulcan - Isida combo or Vulcan with Heat Immunity, aren't needed except if you use Incendiary-band. Any other Augment for Vulcan or Stock Vulcan all didn't need neither Heat Immunity nor Isida combo.  The only Augment that require to shoot infinity without stopping is Incendiary-band, any other Augments simply you can stop firing and continue again before overheating, also this will benefit you to stop firing something and repair your tank position. So the only IB Augment that need to not stop firing to ignite others.

Btw, I was baffled giving you a like because I agree with you, or no because you very long post LOL but you deserve as I agree

[Son_Goku 514]

Railgun shouldn't be nerfed, more like its augments. I would actually like Railgun's base damage to be buffed a little, so Hornets and Wasps can't survive two shots without protection. But that's probably not as relevant for MM

Edited January 18, 2021 by Son_Goku

[Akame 4,578]

For anyone who doesn't understand how hornet OD 'chooses' enemies to AP see the following:

Now, if we are all honest, there is nothing wrong with hornet OD, people complain mainly because some use it selfishly and end up with their 'kills stolen' dully quoted from a friend of mine that tried to convince me that Hornet OD is bad right now.

Some Hornet OD's may randomly clutch, but many don't know how to use it.

Before, Hornet OD used to just apply an 'AP status' to All existing tanks for as long as the user was alive for THEMSELVES.

Now, it has become a real team orientated overdrive. People still use hornet OD's selfishly to get a revenge kill, and then complain saying it's bad. You just chose to use it inefficiently, stop complaining.

IF, any tweak may be needed, it's to temporarily increase the hornet players damage by a flat bonus of 20% or so at most, but even then, could you imagine a Railgun with the Scout augment just casually 2 tapping you, fun right? Or even, temporarily give it an 'burning mechanism', where shots would ignite targets, but that does sound pretty op since targets may also be AP'd.

Let us not forget what was the case before, crazy magnum bombers just 1 shotting enemies constantly, same with XP players, along with other hornet combos too, most often they used defender drones, just solo shredding people. Where is the teamplay in that?? Is that a scout? Or a savage?

Now it's more like a real scout, helps the team, and in return you can play chemically together.

I'll close this off for now with 1 more statement. WE do NOT need score adding mechanisms in the games, it is already horrendous that players are abusing isida mechanic and dictator in games for score farming. If Hornet is to get score from players killed that were AP'd, then by all means Ares should also get a score for healing allies with it's OD. Please make sure you think about how changes will effect how everything else works.

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

and AP Augments should get deleted

AGREE.

 

 

[Akame 4,578]

On 1/17/2021 at 8:39 AM, Emeraldcat345 said:

 

Here are the changes:

Railgun's penetration will now be at 50% for all Mk's. So, no matter how upgraded Railgun is, it will be stuck at 50%. For those of you who don't know how penetration works, it is the amount of damage that the 2nd tank you hit in 1 shot will deal. As for the 50%, that shot will deal 50% of the damage that your shot did to the 1st tank. If there's a 3rd tank, then it will deal 50% as much damage as the 2nd tank received, and so on.

I mainly like this suggestion, make penetration a static 50% for ALL modifications, this will make it so that higher upgrades vs low upgrades isn't that far apart but a bit more balanced in a sense. This may also make people wonder if they should use augments like large caliber and 'scout' due to that 50% penetration.

Mainly because it may bring more players to use this augment:

Although like Maf did point out, how hyperspace rounds may get a bit more popular. But last time I checked, not many people actually hit penetrating shots, except for like a clustered area, it is usually 1v1 scenarios in the large 8v8.

[Excited 78]

1 hour ago, Akame said:

I mainly like this suggestion, make penetration a static 50% for ALL modifications, this will make it so that higher upgrades vs low upgrades isn't that far apart but a bit more balanced in a sense. This may also make people wonder if they should use augments like large caliber and 'scout' due to that 50% penetration.

Mainly because it may bring more players to use this augment:

Although like Maf did point out, how hyperspace rounds may get a bit more popular. But last time I checked, not many people actually hit penetrating shots, except for like a clustered area, it is usually 1v1 scenarios in the large 8v8.

I like the whole idea u presented above, about hyperspace rounds getting popular, could happen but you also have to have in mind that not many people even cooperate as a team and hitting penetrating shots through teammates/enemies can be difficult with HTML5, XP/BP might be different to normal MM but hitting a penetrating shot has come to the point it's not even highly likely, I've managed to hit 3 people with one shot only once and I've been playing HTML5 since like July last year, haven't tried hyperspace rounds in MM and if the shots would even hit. It's really hard to even get two people in one shot, the only place I can imagine hitting multiple people in one shot would be Parma and if I was in the enemy base w/o them noticing me and if they were all hiding behind those walls if you get what I mean.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

Why are there no topics for Gauss nerf?

[alkyng 3,080]

17 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

Why are there no topics for Gauss nerf?

Gauss is really OP and the most stock OP turret, but nowadays EMP Augment overwhelmed the Gauss and made us to forget that even the original Gauss is OP

[yellowghetto 3,206]

9 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Gauss is really OP and the most stock OP turret, but nowadays EMP Augment overwhelmed the Gauss and made us to forget that even the original Gauss is OP

Any Gauss is still OP. Except Armor-Piercing Salvo Gauss. That is trash. Who cares about this silly Augment.

Edited January 19, 2021 by yellowghetto

[alkyng 3,080]

12 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

Any Gauss is still OP. Except Armor-Piercing Salvo Gauss. That is trash.

I checked it now again in Wiki, why it's trash? maybe you understand it wrongly!! Splash-damage isn't removed, but it only didn't give AP in others, so when you shoot a punch of people, only the one you snipped in will get the AP, but other will still receive the damage like stock Gauss.

Also it has 5s AP, it's enough for another Gauss sniping shoot

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

4 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

Any Gauss is still OP. Except Armor-Piercing Salvo Gauss. That is trash.

I don't see how Gauss can be OP but Armour-piercing Salvo is trash when Armour-piercing Salvo is Stock Gauss with an added benefit. 

 

[yellowghetto 3,206]

2 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

I don't see how Gauss can be OP but Armour-piercing Salvo is trash when Armour-piercing Salvo is Stock Gauss with an added benefit. 

 

Got it confused with another Augment, which I thought reduced Gauss's super shot dmg.

 

5 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

I checked it now again in Wiki, why it's trash? maybe you understand it wrongly!! Splash-damage isn't removed, but it only didn't give AP in others, so when you shoot a punch of people, only the one you snipped in will get the AP, but other will still receive the damage like stock Gauss.

Also it has 5s AP, it's enough for another Gauss sniping shoot

I said its trash because it's an inferior Augment to Electromagnetic Salvo.

 

Edited. 

[alkyng 3,080]

Ok I will quote your edited..

22 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

Any Gauss is still OP. Except Armor-Piercing Salvo Gauss. That is trash. Who cares about this silly Augment.

AP Turrets in general (Gauss and others) are more a team-based than a self-benefited, so mostly when you snipe someone with your AP Gauss, someone will steal your kill from your teammates in the 5 seconds of AP.

The same thing applied to Freeze, when Freeze AP is freezing an enemy, it's easily for me to steal the kill with my LCR Railgun with one-shot, as the enemy is with no armor.

The same thing applied to all AP Augments

[yellowghetto 3,206]

For those who don't know much about the Electromagnetic Salvo Augment. Gauss's super shot splashes all targets within range with an EMP which removes all a tank's buffs. Sure, it has a reduced damage for the super shot, but with the super quick reload speed, it barely makes a difference. The arcade splash effect is replaced with a fast bullet. Yeah who cares, never liked the splash anyways.

Armor-Piercing Salvo is just a lazy inferior Augment to it and I will feel so bad for you if you pull this over the other Gauss Augment from Ultra Containers. It is just vanilla Gauss will a single target AP effect.

What's the difference? A splash debuff over a single target debuff. AP only makes them vulnerable, EMP makes them seriously vulnerable as it ALSO sets their supplies cooldown on. 

You can say, "Wear EMP Immunity"

I say, "Wear AP Immunity!"

[yellowghetto 3,206]

4 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Ok I will quote your edited..

AP Turrets in general (Gauss and others) are more a team-based than a self-benefited, so mostly when you snipe someone with your AP Gauss, someone will steal your kill from your teammates in the 5 seconds of AP.

The same thing applied to Freeze, when Freeze AP is freezing an enemy, it's easily for me to steal the kill with my LCR Railgun with one-shot, as the enemy is with no armor.

The same thing applied to all AP Augments

AP Augments are just trash, I will never use them

 

Autocannon or Armor-Piercing Rounds? :KEKW:

Edited January 19, 2021 by yellowghetto

[alkyng 3,080]

43 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

For those who don't know much about the Electromagnetic Salvo Augment. Gauss's super shot splashes all targets within range with an EMP which removes all a tank's buffs. Sure, it has a reduced damage for the super shot, but with the super quick reload speed, it barely makes a difference. The arcade splash effect is replaced with a fast bullet. Yeah who cares, never liked the splash anyways.

Armor-Piercing Salvo is just a lazy inferior Augment to it and I will feel so bad for you if you pull this over the other Gauss Augment from Ultra Containers. It is just vanilla Gauss will a single target AP effect.

What's the difference? A splash debuff over a single target debuff. AP only makes them vulnerable, EMP makes them seriously vulnerable as it ALSO sets their supplies cooldown on. 

You can say, "Wear EMP Immunity"

I say, "Wear AP Immunity!"

Definitely EMP is way more stronger than AP (Gauss), EMP restrict you from all of supplies So Repair kit and Mines. especially in Parkour battle when some opponent come against me with EMP, I just leave as there is no chance for me to complete, restricting me 5 seconds from RK and Mines (the most thing I rely on, in parkour).

AP Gauss is just a good in a perfect cases in 1v1 when the other one have Defender + 50% protection against you, here I can say AP is superior, All about Gauss.

47 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

AP Augments are just trash, I will never use them

Autocannon or Armor-Piercing Rounds? :KEKW:

I said EMP Gauss is the most OP thing, and more powerful than AP Augments, but that didn't mean that AP aren't also OP.

For sure Armor-Piercing Rounds, it's way more OP and stronger.

You kidding or what while saying AP Augment are trash, you will neglect the enemy protections completely, Defender or DA or Protection modules and Titan's Dome. You will do your full damage always, nothing will restrict you.

The most practical AP Augments (for me) are, the one for Railgun and Ricochet. Railgun, with every shot you applied the AP on the enemy for 7s It's way too much 7s seconds that applied to every enemy even with Pireceng, just with 33% reduction in damage. To be honest, now most of the players have at least an armor more than 33%, even the non-buyers, DA - Protections modules. Also don't forget Railgun now is a way quicker than it was in the past, so 7s is very enough. And again it's more a team-based, you can apply it for a punch of people in example in Siege mode.

Then Ricochet, with no disadvantage (except the misleading info in the wiki). You can apply AP on any one you shoot with a ricochet (bounced) shot, it seems not that easy? I want to tell you even if you shoot in the ground then on the enemy it applied AP. In example  a (Tank ---- _---- ----Tank) so AP will applied, LOL. Regardless of the example, again AP is a way too much.

Firebird - Vulcan - Gauss, all in my opinion didn't need AP, as their Augments are way more stronger. Firebird, Incendiary-mix is enough no need for AP. Vulcan, for sure AP wont be stronger than the Incendiary-band the spreader of fires. And for Gauss, for sure no comment with the current disgustingly meta, EMP.

[EmeraldCat 562]

On 1/18/2021 at 8:38 AM, wolverine848 said:

Rail used to be like what LCR augment is today.  Then they nerfed the damage and increased the fire-rate some. Rail players hated that, and had to buy the LCR combo to get back what they had before.  Kinda like Twins had to buy an alt to avoid self-damage due to the silly splash introduced.

For Vulcan, I'm talking about the change that nerfed regular damage when Vulcan was overheating.  They did this specifically because Vulcan+Incendiary band was doing overheat damage AND (a slightly reduced) regular damage.  So the Devs nerfed any regular damage during overheating to oblivion.  But this was also applied to stock vulcans, so they became useless the moment they started to overheat.  Sacrificing themselves to take out a flag carrier was no longer an option. They had to stop firing since they were basically doing no damage.

In any event, wouldn't bother me if they made your suggestion permanent.  I don't use rail, and I would still be equipping that module because of the high damage it can do.

Getting a damage nerf and a fire-rate increase doesn't seem that bad at all. Assuming the amount that was changed. If you're suggesting it was like LCR, which currently has +40% Damage and +50% reload, then an update like that should not have been a problem.

Yeahhh, honestly, the afterburn for Vulcan has caused too many problems at this point, even now, it's causing a lot of problems with Fire Immunity, and is not getting fixed. I think Vulcan should be changed to never be allowed to deal burn damage or get burned after ammo bar reaches zero.

As far as my suggestion for said changes for Railgun, the whole point is for it lose the amount of players or popularity it has. I believe that a game that allows you to have many different combinations of tanks, should not be allowed to pick favorites. Because that gets you to having most enemies having 50% modules against you. Compared to Vulcan's problem, Railgun problem is not Augments. Though, you're right, Scout is insanely overpowered, and even if I convert M4 Railgun to have a reload of 3.3 seconds and nerf M4 Railgun to have 440 impact force, Scout is still going to destroy. So, some nerfs can be given to Augments as well.

Lastly, I respect your reasons for wearing the Railgun Module, but most players have it because it's just straight up popular. That's my main focus here, and I believe it could be achieved with nerfing the stock turret.

[EmeraldCat 562]

On 1/18/2021 at 9:01 AM, Tokamak said:

To nerf it is easier to change only one parameter, but you want to touch 2 parameters.

Thunder has splash damages (can damage severals tank at the same time) and it is medium range with shell takings time to fly. Railgun is instantaneous at any range (till infinity) and penetration only work it 2 tanks are aligned, which doesn't happen that often so you would have to force these situation and be more patient. e.g. waiting for the right shot.

1/ You can't compare thunder and railgun reload without adding the 1.1 s delay of the railgun in your calculation, which in the end makes about 34% decrease between 2 shots and not 40%.

2/ Regarding penetration it requires alignment of 2 tanks while thunders only need other thanks in the vicinity - this makes thunder more effective a making damages. Furthermore splash damage can wounds tank not in sight while railgun need a clear line of sight.
 

Last but not least, Hornet is popular for many reasons, not only the quick high damage at long range (when you do not miss the target) but also because of XP/BP and the skills it require to time the shot. If the falcon protection module is also popular does this not nerf the turret already?

Actually, I thought about it, and now there's 3. Reload nerf, Impact Force nerf, and Penetration nerf.

I didn't add the 1.1 second delay because it wasn't a changing factor when the turret upgrades, so there was really no point in adding it in. Though you are correct, adding in an unchangeable digit to your equation will indeed give you an answer of 34%. That's like saying that Thunder's max range of damage is increasing with every upgrade but its projectile speed isn't be increased. Shot delay or no shot delay, 34% is still very high compared to most other turrets. Although, you mighta convinced me that Railgun should also receive a Shot Delay buff with the other nerfs I just gave it. M4's shot delay would be .825 seconds. Add that with the 3.3 second M4 reload, and you got about 4.125 seconds per shot, compared to M4 Railgun's 3.7 seconds per shot. Also, if you subtract 25% from 5.5, you get 4.125, which most definitely looks balanced. 

if an M0 Thunder and an M0 Railgun were to fight, both are far superior at specific ranges. But, assume that at M4, both turrets doubled their damage, and their reloads were both increased by 25%. How is the M4 battle gonna change compared to the M0 battle? I believe if both turrets decrease their reload by 25% M0-M4, nothing has changed in reality, just the fact that the battle will end up being quicker.

Penetration is getting nerfed because a percent based stat is already being upgraded. Percent based stats depend on other stats that are upgraded. Tanki basically made it so that M4 turrets are doubled in damage compared to M0, with slight 2 digit number changes, so basically, no turret should be increasing more in damage. But, since penetration is basically damage based, it's damage gets quadrupled compared to M0, which was 200-400 to the second tank. At M4, you're now dealing 800-1600 to the second tank, so you are in fact quadrupling your damage compared to the other turrets who only get their damages doubled. Keep the penetration at 50%, and M0 penetration will deal 200-400 damage, while M4 Penetration will deal 400-800 damage.

Timing a shot is not skill, that's called luck. You can technically play XP/BP with any hull you so desire. Not sure why using Hornet and Railgun is considered skill compared to other turrets.

Popular is a strong word for Falcon. Actually, it's popular in the bad way. I think I'd rather lose some penetration, lose some reload, and lose some impact force, just to not have every enemy have permanent 50% Falcon Modules. I think my nerfs are a lot less bad than only being able to deal 50% of my original damage most of the match.

[EmeraldCat 562]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:12 AM, Son_Goku said:

Railgun shouldn't be nerfed, more like its augments. I would actually like Railgun's base damage to be buffed a little, so Hornets and Wasps can't survive two shots without protection. But that's probably not as relevant for MM

I totally understand, but double armor isn't as bad compared to a Protection Module that permanently decreases your damage by 50%. With double armor, you can use double damage, with Falcon Module, you need Hornet to pierce armor and Falcon. 

[EmeraldCat 562]

On 1/18/2021 at 11:29 AM, Akame said:

I mainly like this suggestion, make penetration a static 50% for ALL modifications, this will make it so that higher upgrades vs low upgrades isn't that far apart but a bit more balanced in a sense. This may also make people wonder if they should use augments like large caliber and 'scout' due to that 50% penetration.

Mainly because it may bring more players to use this augment:

Although like Maf did point out, how hyperspace rounds may get a bit more popular. But last time I checked, not many people actually hit penetrating shots, except for like a clustered area, it is usually 1v1 scenarios in the large 8v8.

With the 50% nerf in mind, I think Hyperspace should get a little buff. Like, say Penetration =200%. Because hitting 2 opponents is basically a luck shot.

I also thought of Round Stabilization in mind, because it seemed kinda useless at M4, since now all railguns =100% penetration. So I basically indirectly buffed it.

As for Scout, I think it needs a nerf of itself as well. Mainly an impact force nerf, and also either a damage nerf and reload nerf.

[EmeraldCat 562]

19 hours ago, yellowghetto said:

Why are there no topics for Gauss nerf?

Haha, sure, I can make a topic on that as well.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

2 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

Haha, sure, I can make a topic on that as well.

XD

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

21 hours ago, yellowghetto said:

Why are there no topics for Gauss nerf?

Pretty sure, it's a self-explanatory thing lol.

Everyone wants it nerfed, but I'm guessing the developers wanna keep it overpowered just for a bit longer so they can siphon as much money out of it's EMP salvo alt as they can.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

2 hours ago, Emeraldcat345 said:

As for Scout, I think it needs a nerf of itself as well. Mainly an impact force nerf, and also either a damage nerf and reload nerf.

An impact force nerf and damage nerf would be greatly appreciated. The reload is fine, as long as the damage of each shot is proportional in power to a normal Railgun shot, or weaker, due to impact force happening much more often.

[alkyng 3,080]

27 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Pretty sure, it's a self-explanatory thing lol.

Everyone wants it nerfed, but I'm guessing the developers wanna keep it overpowered just for a bit longer so they can siphon as much money out of it's EMP salvo alt as they can.

Actually I have a topic about Gauss, was one of my first posts here.

When I play I noticed that many times I was dying by Gauss, playing normally then zapped by a sudden death from Gauss. If I noticed him, I couldn't run as the shot is inevitably will hit me, some times if the Gauss is lagging, it's way more beneficial for him to snipe me correctly, as it can hit me even behind the wall.

So I decided to go to Wiki and check what Gauss can do, then I noticed it has a damage more than LCR Railgun!! So after that and after I entered the forums, I decided to create a topic about it. Btw, I'm happy to see my topic and know why I hate it.

Also fyi, that was before I noticed it has the incredibly Augment, EMP, that literally a game breaker, it's a way a lot frustration and breaker for game as it's exist here. Frustration future for Tanki with this Alt.

On 1/19/2021 at 9:38 AM, yellowghetto said:

Why are there no topics for Gauss nerf?

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by asem.harbi