category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, asem.harbi said:

So I decided to go to Wiki and check what Gauss can do, then I noticed it has a damage more than LCR Railgun!! So after that and after I entered the forums, I decided to create a topic about it. Btw, I'm happy to see my topic and know why I hate it.

I feel like Gauss' sniping damage needs a nerf so that it will sometimes takes 3 hits to destroy a medium hull. However, the maximum damage is adjusted so that there is a small change of only destroying a medium hull with 2 hits. 

Additionally, it's reload after sniping needs to be increased.

And finally, it's "Aiming Recovery Time" needs to be reduced to like 1.5 seconds (or even 1 second if the devs want), in order to make Gauss on par with Striker. Cause currently, a Gauss outmatches Striker in a 1v1. 

But to be honest, the easiest way to nerf the turret would be to give it a laser sight, like Shaft and Striker has. 

 

[Excited 78]

2 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

I feel like Gauss' sniping damage needs a nerf so that it will sometimes takes 3 hits to destroy a medium hull. However, the maximum damage is adjusted so that there is a small change of only destroying a medium hull with 2 hits. 

Additionally, it's reload after sniping needs to be increased.

And finally, it's "Aiming Recovery Time" needs to be reduced to like 1.5 seconds (or even 1 second if the devs want), in order to make Gauss on par with Striker. Cause currently, a Gauss outmatches Striker in a 1v1. 

But to be honest, the easiest way to nerf the turret would be to give it a laser sight, like Shaft and Striker has. 

 

IMO the nerfs I'd apply to gauss are heavy and it would have more downsides than it would have positives so it would be unused most of the times probably, I really don't think gauss is as OP as y'all say it is cause every battle you join there is surely to be a few gauss protections and more people might change later in game. 

Anyways to the point now. 

 

First nerf - would be adding a laser in sniping mode like Striker and Shaft got, they both got the lasers with of course Shaft not doing penetrating shots anymore (which in the past it did) Striker lock-on takes a lot but not as long as gauss' lock-on, if you don't understand what I mean, it's the lock-on after the enemy hides behind a wall, I'm not sure which takes longer but I feel like the gauss would take the victory there.

 

Second nerf to the EM augment - remove splash the ability for splash to remove supplies, so the target you are locked on receives the effect of no supplies like AP works.

 

Third (Mandatory) nerf - this nerf would only apply if the Second nerf is to be ignored - basically increase reloading speed of gauss in the non sniping mode or decrease the effect how long the supplies are deactivated. Now this last one might be hard because I believe the reactivation of supplies are the same speed if a Hunter OD was used on you, so I'd probably do the first. If we were to change something about how fast the supplies reactivated on hunters OD and the augment there would be inconsistency. 

 

Fourth nerf - decrease the damage in non sniping mode. This should be self-explanatory.

 

These are some of the solutions, of course someone would need to do the math how much and how many nerfs you'd apply.

LMK what y'all think of this

 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, Excited said:

if you don't understand what I mean, it's the lock-on after the enemy hides behind a wall, I'm not sure which takes longer but I feel like the gauss would take the victory there.

It's called "Aiming Recovery Time" lol.

And yes, Gauss wins because it's aiming recovery time is 2 seconds long. Striker only has a 1 second aiming recovery time. 

Just now, Excited said:

Second nerf to the EM augment - remove splash the ability for splash to remove supplies, so the target you are locked on receives the effect of no supplies like AP works.

I feel like the splash damage effect should be removed entirely from the alteration. Only hits direct targets.

Either that, or reduce the splash damage radius by half, as well as make the EMP only affect the direct target like you said.

[alkyng 3,080]

1 hour ago, Excited said:

IMO the nerfs I'd apply to gauss are heavy and it would have more downsides than it would have positives so it would be unused most of the times probably, I really don't think gauss is as OP as y'all say it is cause every battle you join there is surely to be a few gauss protections and more people might change later in game. 

Hi, first you came here with a direct contradiction, you want to apply heavy nerfs in Gauss but you don't see it's OP.

Also Protection modules that used against Gauss aren't in our discussion, it's not a valid argument because it's an act by players not determine the game's balance. And for your info, Protections used against Railgun are way more than that used against Gauss.

1 hour ago, Excited said:

First nerf - would be adding a laser in sniping mode like Striker and Shaft got, they both got the lasers with of course Shaft not doing penetrating shots anymore (which in the past it did) Striker lock-on takes a lot but not as long as gauss' lock-on

Yes, it's a demanding thing, strangely they added laser for Shaft that many Shaft users complain, but not in Gauss. And yeah the Lock-on time recovery in Gauss it's 2s and in Striker it's a 1s. Above of that Striker has a laser that opponents runs quickly after seeing + longer aiming time + the rockets are slow, and above of that they made the Aiming recovery time for Gauss longer. Though Gauss didn't have laser - less aiming time - the hit reach immediately.

2 hours ago, Excited said:

Second nerf to the EM augment - remove splash the ability for splash to remove supplies, so the target you are locked on receives the effect of no supplies like AP works.

Third (Mandatory) nerf - this nerf would only apply if the Second nerf is to be ignored - basically increase reloading speed of gauss in the non sniping mode or decrease the effect how long the supplies are deactivated. Now this last one might be hard because I believe the reactivation of supplies are the same speed if a Hunter OD was used on you, so I'd probably do the first. If we were to change something about how fast the supplies reactivated on hunters OD and the augment there would be inconsistency. 

I think EM Augment isn't in our discussion as it's a really game breaker and didn't need to describe, but to mention my points quickly about how it's OP...

The splash-damage EMP didn't affect the EMP user just other players + the EMP time should be depended in the distance so if you're far from 16-20 far from splash damage you get 1s EMP.

The -25% in damage isn't an enough nerf to be balanced as it has EMP, but they also reduced the reload time (an advantage). So it can apply the EMP on you and with -50% reload time it can apply it to you again.

2 hours ago, Excited said:

Fourth nerf - decrease the damage in non sniping mode. This should be self-explanatory.

Yes, it's one of the mandatory things.

Btw, you said you will give us a heavy downsides but I don't think it's that strong as it's just a laser + decreasing the damage in classic shots. But I will give you now the real OP things in Gauss that needs a real nerfs.

You can move while sniping (opposite of Shaft) - Automatically aim - Hits reach the opponent immediately (not like Striker) - No laser - Incredibly unreasonable Splash-damage radius "20".

My direct problem is that Gauss is an easy Sniper turret for less-skilled players (noobs), Sniper turrets usually in every game are hard to use. Twins and Smoky are easy turret that even less-skilled can handle it, but here in Tanki we have Gauss, it has automatically hits that will never miss the target. Sniper turrets must to be hard, Gauss is a silent turret + if it snipped you and you noticed him (rarely) you couldn't run as it will hit you directly. 

[Iquit 101]

three railgun alterations should go in the trash, theres your nerf

rapid fire railgun: less time to knock its aim off, more damage per second compared to non alteration railgun, and for some reason the impact force wasnt nerfed at all so its basically getting double impact force with good RNG regular railgun damage all the time.

high caliber ammo: its like a noob's substitute gauss snipe shot without splash damage, same damage per shot, and without having to put any effort into aiming consistently for 2 seconds OR also the noob's substitute magnum so they dont have to aim vertically with the normal horizontal aim that every turret requires. harpoon magnum hornets or "super thunders" (what I call them) used to be super common because aiming vertically was no challenge, but hornet overdrive went in the toilet and super thunders are as rare as uranium striker and double hammer now. railgun doesnt deserve to one shot a full health medium hull without any armor or protection.

Shell destabilization: is just and mixture of both alterations and deserves to go in the dumpster. A damage RNG window from 1 to 2720 with 20% more impact force? What moron made this game mechanic? the median between 1 and 2720 is 1310 and the median for regular railgun damage is 1200. And it seems like its rigged anyway to get above the median all the time. Do you see anybody using railgun with the opposite alteration on? NO 

Regular fully upgraded railgun damage is 800 to 1600 per shot with the 1.1 warm up and 2.9 reload or whatever it is now days, and that is where it should permanently stay.

I'm glad hornet is dead. Less railguns. and barely any more cheap high caliber ammo hornet overdrive deaths

[alkyng 3,080]

6 minutes ago, master_howitzer said:

three railgun alterations should go in the trash, theres your nerf

rapid fire railgun: less time to knock its aim off, more damage per second compared to non alteration railgun, and for some reason the impact force wasnt nerfed at all so its basically getting double impact force with good RNG regular railgun damage all the time.

high caliber ammo: its like a noob's substitute gauss snipe shot without splash damage, same damage per shot, and without having to put any effort into aiming consistently for 2 seconds OR also the noob's substitute magnum so they dont have to aim vertically with the normal horizontal aim that every turret requires. harpoon magnum hornets or "super thunders" (what I call them) used to be super common because aiming vertically was no challenge, but hornet overdrive went in the toilet and super thunders are as rare as uranium striker and double hammer now. railgun doesnt deserve to one shot a full health medium hull without any armor or protection.

 

Agree completely with first alteration "Scout", and I have criticized it a lot.

Disagree with seconds "LCR", No it's weaker than Gauss. And it couldn't even one-shot the light hull most times, with long reload and high percentage to lose the hit compared to high splash-damage in Magnum or the Automatic (disgusting) system in Gauss. No in Railgun with the long reload and 1s shot delay (easily abused) the shoot is just a straight line easily to miss. And the big note, it's what Railgun used to be for most of the Tanki years, they just abused it by replaced it with Stock. And many of Railgun lovers until now buying LCR as it's the real Railgun.

12 minutes ago, master_howitzer said:

I'm glad hornet is dead. Less railguns. and barely any more cheap high caliber ammo hornet overdrive deaths

Agree

 

[Excited 78]

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Hi, first you came here with a direct contradiction, you want to apply heavy nerfs in Gauss but you don't see it's OP.

Also Protection modules that used against Gauss aren't in our discussion, it's not a valid argument because it's an act by players not determine the game's balance. And for your info, Protections used against Railgun are way more than that used against Gauss.

I did say "IMO" which means In my opinion. Also protections are a part of the game, so they are used to determine somewhat balance, and yeah I know railgun prots are more used than gauss but in which modes ? 

 

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Btw, you said you will give us a heavy downsides but I don't think it's that strong as it's just a laser + decreasing the damage in classic shots. But I will give you now the real OP things in Gauss that needs a real nerfs.

I listed the nerfs that would be fair to gauss users and not completely killing the turret for the future and then becoming unusable. 

 

2 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

My direct problem is that Gauss is an easy Sniper turret for less-skilled players (noobs), Sniper turrets usually in every game are hard to use. Twins and Smoky are easy turret that even less-skilled can handle it, but here in Tanki we have Gauss, it has automatically hits that will never miss the target. Sniper turrets must to be hard, Gauss is a silent turret + if it snipped you and you noticed him (rarely) you couldn't run as it will hit you directly. 

I've never seen a less-skilled person using gauss without them turning their turret, every gauss player I encountered was at least moving their turret not like with thunder it happens. Also spotting a enemy is really just training your sight to look everywhere and the spots you would hide in. You can run and u can withstand the shot, it's just about where the enemy is, in parma where you can hide behind walls or in Kungur where they camp in their base.

[Mr.Threatz 61]

If anything rail should get a buff

[alkyng 3,080]

11 minutes ago, Excited said:

I did say "IMO" which means In my opinion. Also protections are a part of the game, so they are used to determine somewhat balance, and yeah I know railgun prots are more used than gauss but in which modes ? 

In every mode SGE - TDM - TJR - CTF - RBG - ASL. Btw, even if you want to consider protection as a valid argument, it's a direct point for Railgun.

12 minutes ago, Excited said:

I listed the nerfs that would be fair to gauss users and not completely killing the turret for the future and then becoming unusable. 

You just said (laser + reduce regular shots damage) these are nothing and the turret still OP. My suggested nerfs in example: adding laser + remove regular shots (like rail and mag) + make the reload time equaled to LCR Railgun + decrease the recovery time to 1s.

But this isn't the problem, the farce auto hits needs at least a real nerf that make the turret unusable as it has auto-hits, it should get a considerable nerf.

16 minutes ago, Excited said:

I've never seen a less-skilled person using gauss without them turning their turret, every gauss player I encountered was at least moving their turret not like with thunder it happens. Also spotting a enemy is really just training your sight to look everywhere and the spots you would hide in. You can run and u can withstand the shot, it's just about where the enemy is, in parma where you can hide behind walls or in Kungur where they camp in their base.

Either they are skilled or not, Auto hits shouldn't be exist, look how the lock-on in Striker how it's very hard and useless most of the times, you have Striker Mk7 and you can judge by yourself go to some battles and see how it's hard. And I think this is what should to be with Gauss for auto-hits. We don't want this easy thing in the game, regardless of Gauss players. Aiming is a really hard and many times missed in sniper turrets, but with Gauss it's auto. I'm a skilled player and many times I miss the shoot with LCR rail (I can easily assume I'm skilled as you also assumed that every Gauss user is skilled).

Btw, I have seen before a person that complain (in 2015) for the auto vertical hits for the turrets, though auto-vertical is a common-sense in Tanki and I wonder for the complaint.. But he assume that it compensate the less-skills for noobs with the auto repair for aim. I wonder what he would say if he saw the Gauss nowadays or the Hovering hulls (no needs of turning the turret + impossibility to flip). So TL:DR my problem with Gauss is the turret completely, I don't want to see it in the game, maybe it would be a high reason to me to leave the game, I don't want to see a turret with that easiness.

[wolverine848 13,097]

5 hours ago, Excited said:

IMO the nerfs I'd apply to gauss are heavy and it would have more downsides than it would have positives so it would be unused most of the times probably, I really don't think gauss is as OP as y'all say it is cause every battle you join there is surely to be a few gauss protections and more people might change later in game. 

Anyways to the point now. 

 

First nerf - would be adding a laser in sniping mode like Striker and Shaft got, they both got the lasers with of course Shaft not doing penetrating shots anymore (which in the past it did) Striker lock-on takes a lot but not as long as gauss' lock-on, if you don't understand what I mean, it's the lock-on after the enemy hides behind a wall, I'm not sure which takes longer but I feel like the gauss would take the victory there.

 

Second nerf to the EM augment - remove splash the ability for splash to remove supplies, so the target you are locked on receives the effect of no supplies like AP works.

 

Third (Mandatory) nerf - this nerf would only apply if the Second nerf is to be ignored - basically increase reloading speed of gauss in the non sniping mode or decrease the effect how long the supplies are deactivated. Now this last one might be hard because I believe the reactivation of supplies are the same speed if a Hunter OD was used on you, so I'd probably do the first. If we were to change something about how fast the supplies reactivated on hunters OD and the augment there would be inconsistency. 

 

Fourth nerf - decrease the damage in non sniping mode. This should be self-explanatory.

 

These are some of the solutions, of course someone would need to do the math how much and how many nerfs you'd apply.

LMK what y'all think of this

 

Striker and shaft both do a lot more damage than Gauss does - they can one-hit-kill.  The shaft laser can be hidden and many targets really don't get advance notice.  Striker pretty much sucks so making another turret suck as well is not a solution.

EM augment - I'd go further and remove splash entirely.  Should be a one-target shot.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Striker pretty much sucks so making another turret suck as well is not a solution.

That's why I use Striker lol. Since it sucks, almost no one equips a Protection Module against it cause so few people use it.

Also, the big advantage Gauss has over Shaft is that it allows players to be completely mobile. It essentially combines the best of Shaft and Striker together in one turret; Striker's mobility while aiming, and Shaft's instant high damage per shot (granted, it's not as high as an actual Shaft shot...but double damage exists.....and so does the Booster and Crisis drones)

Just now, wolverine848 said:

EM augment - I'd go further and remove splash entirely.  Should be a one-target shot.

Agreed.

[Tokamak 1,021]

so this turned to be that it is not railgun that need nerfing, a fact which was obvious from the start... 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, Tokamak said:

so this turned to be that it is not railgun that need nerfing, a fact which was obvious from the start... 

Railgun needs a nerf lol. 

Just now, Tanker-Arthur said:

That's why I use Striker lol. Since it sucks, almost no one equips a Protection Module against it cause so few people use it.

Obviously, people will still use more Railgun Modules than Striker Modules, but the Falcon module most likely won't be used as widespread as it is today. 

Spoiler

Also, Striker is decent in battles, even if it "sucks". No one equips modules against it so I manage to get really easy kills. However, the salvo is mainly useful against heavy hulls or afk players though. Otherwise, arcade shots are the way to go.

 

[alkyng 3,080]

12 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Obviously, people will still use more Railgun Modules than Striker Modules, but the Falcon module most likely won't be used as widespread as it is today. 

 

Believe me, even if you came after one year of Railgun nerf, I think you will see it still the most used protection or in the top-3.

Players rarely changing their prots 

[Cruelty 476]

I don't know if you play tanki often but have you seen that railgun isn't very popular turret when it comes to non format battles? It doesn't need a nerf.

What really needs a nerf is Vulcan(Fire band alt), Gauss(EMP alt), Hopper and Crusader and few drones.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Cruelty

[wolverine848 13,097]

2 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Obviously, people will still use more Railgun Modules than Striker Modules, but the Falcon module most likely won't be used as widespread as it is today. 

Striker modules are rarely used because striker generally is a poor turret.  Even with no modules in a battle it is not very effective.  Between the left/right shooting and the long target acquisition time it just does not get the hits.  Why equip a module against a turret that probably just won't hit you?  Even when I see the odd enemy using striker, I hardly ever go to my garage to equip that module.

The only version that's remotely useable is hunter augment - the missiles will hit 90% of the time.  problem is you then can't do a full salvo.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

10 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Pretty sure, it's a self-explanatory thing lol.

Everyone wants it nerfed, but I'm guessing the developers wanna keep it overpowered just for a bit longer so they can siphon as much money out of it's EMP salvo alt as they can.

I think you may have lost track time... Been year for Gauss and nearly a year for Electromagnetic Salvo. That's way too long.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Just now, yellowghetto said:

I think you may have lost track time... Been year for Gauss and nearly a year for Electromagnetic Salvo. That's way too long.

And... you can't actually buy the augment anyway.  Was only available in a special offer.

[yellowghetto 3,206]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

And... you can't actually buy the augment anyway.  Was only available in a special offer.

We are talking about the balance of it. It has been in the game for so long and we still have not seen a nerf.

Actually there was a slight rework to the arcade shots, but it seems more of a buff than a nerf.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, yellowghetto said:

We are talking about the balance of it. It has been in the game for so long and we still have not seen a nerf.

Actually there was a slight rework to the arcade shots, but it seems more of a buff than a nerf.

I was referring to the "syphon off money" part.  There's no more syphoning to be done since it's no longer for sale.

Devs have no excuse.

[alkyng 3,080]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

I was referring to the "syphon off money" part.  There's no more syphoning to be done since it's no longer for sale.

Devs have no excuse.

It's in Ultra Containers nowadays, also I see many weak non-buyers have this Augment that directly means it's in Ultra Containers. Btw, I still consider it as to be with 47$ as written in Wiki.

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

1 minute ago, wolverine848 said:

I was referring to the "syphon off money" part.  There's no more syphoning to be done since it's no longer for sale.

Devs have no excuse.

Unless there is cash involved devs don't really do much, it's what they are really good at......HTML5 is a GLARING example of their inept attempt to go one better than flash..FAILED.

[Iquit 101]

everybody hating on gauss lmao

Easy solution: gauss shouldn't be a substitute thunder, cripple the arcade shots range and add a second to the reload time

that stupid EMP alteration? yeah the little noob kid always arcade shots one second after their pathetic weak ass aim does a snipe shot and turns your armor off and it does 1500 damage plus the other 1500 damage from the snipe shot

I have alteration on one of my accounts and while playing it reminds me of hornet overdrive. I turn their armor off and someone else gets the kill and points, if I snipe shot only.

 

 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, yellowghetto said:

I think you may have lost track time... Been year for Gauss and nearly a year for Electromagnetic Salvo. That's way too long.

Lol, normally, the devs would've nerfed an overpowered Alteration within 2-4 months of it's release (like Hammer's Duplet or Striker's Uranium), but since EMP was released during a time where only 5,000 - 10,000 players are active at a given moment, worst-case scenario, we'll probably have to wait more like 2-4 years for a nerf, or no nerf at all :(

Just now, wolverine848 said:

And... you can't actually buy the augment anyway.  Was only available in a special offer.

Just now, wolverine848 said:

I was referring to the "syphon off money" part.  There's no more syphoning to be done since it's no longer for sale.

Devs have no excuse.

Oh technically, you can still buy the alt via Ultra Containers. Since Ultra Containers are only widely available in the shop as opposed to regular containers, it technically means you can still "buy the EMP alt with real money".

Just now, wolverine848 said:

Striker modules are rarely used because striker generally is a poor turret.  Even with no modules in a battle it is not very effective.  Between the left/right shooting and the long target acquisition time it just does not get the hits.  Why equip a module against a turret that probably just won't hit you?  Even when I see the odd enemy using striker, I hardly ever go to my garage to equip that module.

The only version that's remotely useable is hunter augment - the missiles will hit 90% of the time.  problem is you then can't do a full salvo.

I agree Striker isn't a very effective turret, but since literally no one uses Striker module, I manage to get quite a number of kills in battles. All it takes is skill.

So technically....Striker is either the worst turret in the game...or it's the turret that requires the most skill to use.
And I honestly don't want Striker to be buffed in the near future, mainly because it's stats make it perfectly balanced with Thunder (Striker has lower damage, but faster reload. Poorer accuracy, but has the ability to one-shot enemies if used skillfully).

[Frylock 1,617]

5 hours ago, master_howitzer said:

three railgun alterations should go in the trash, theres your nerf

rapid fire railgun: less time to knock its aim off, more damage per second compared to non alteration railgun, and for some reason the impact force wasnt nerfed at all so its basically getting double impact force with good RNG regular railgun damage all the time.

high caliber ammo: its like a noob's substitute gauss snipe shot without splash damage, same damage per shot, and without having to put any effort into aiming consistently for 2 seconds OR also the noob's substitute magnum so they dont have to aim vertically with the normal horizontal aim that every turret requires. harpoon magnum hornets or "super thunders" (what I call them) used to be super common because aiming vertically was no challenge, but hornet overdrive went in the toilet and super thunders are as rare as uranium striker and double hammer now. railgun doesnt deserve to one shot a full health medium hull without any armor or protection.

Shell destabilization: is just and mixture of both alterations and deserves to go in the dumpster. A damage RNG window from 1 to 2720 with 20% more impact force? What moron made this game mechanic? the median between 1 and 2720 is 1310 and the median for regular railgun damage is 1200. And it seems like its rigged anyway to get above the median all the time. Do you see anybody using railgun with the opposite alteration on? NO 

Regular fully upgraded railgun damage is 800 to 1600 per shot with the 1.1 warm up and 2.9 reload or whatever it is now days, and that is where it should permanently stay.

I'm glad hornet is dead. Less railguns. and barely any more cheap high caliber ammo hornet overdrive deaths

Hello I would like to point out that the railgun for largecaliber got recently nerfed in its reload it was -20% reload now its -50% percent reload.

They buffed the scout by removing min damage cons. They also buffed hyperspace rounds. look at the image below they actually changed the augments stats. recently without us knowing they did these changes about 6 days ago. plus other augments were changed too.  here is the link to the chart https://en.tankiwiki.com/Augments. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by MysticBlood