category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Akame 4,578]

5 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

 AP turrets have no disadvantages !!

Maybe I can consider developers as a less-thinkers (by your assumes) and they tried to balance EMP Gauss as it have advantages/disadvantages, but AP turrets doesn't have any cent disadvantage.

Actually some AP augments have disadvantages, i.e railgun/freeze, there may be a few where it's essentially a buff on stock, but hey, we may be due for part adjustments soon.

[Poppy 422]

There is a very conflicting situation between EMP and AP:

EMP removes all supplies while AP only removes effect of double armor (and the stacked armor of defender and crisis), protection modules and titan dome that is an overdrive. So overall EMP outsmarts AP... but only when titan is involved, AP is dominative.

So I think ONE of this ways can fix this:

1. Make more slots for modules in battles with more players.
2. Another hull adds some kind protection with it's OD.
3. Defender and crisis don't improve the double armor effect. They give another protection that doesn't get removed by EMP.

So this could make AP compete with EMP in every mode. About siege, idk, that mode is just "strong titan beats weak titan".

[Spy 14,687]

That's true in my opinion, EMP is stronger than AP. Here is why - If you were effected by the AP effect, you can still defend yourself and kill your opponent if you have double power or escape if you have nitro. However, if you are effected by the EMP effect, the only way you can defend yourself is if you have protection against the turret of of your opponent, and in many cases you do not have protection against it.

I feel like the best way to nerf EMP is to change the way this effect works in the following way; If you have 10 seconds for your double power, and you were effected by EMP, you will be left with 5 seconds only. So basically it cuts the time left for your supplies in half.

[Frylock 1,617]

Hello 50% crit chance is okay for stock railgun, but after the crit damage update, Scout has been too OP because it doesn't have a hinderince to its crit ratio due to its fast reload. So I propose that scout only inflicts up to 25-35% crit chance when using the E.Scout augment. (Preferably 33 or 35%)

Edited March 27, 2021 by MysticBlood
Added a preferable percentage

[TinBoxGunner 140]

Many times battles are so unbalanced that it start to be difficult to believe that devs are THAT INCOMPETENT.  They must create unbalanced battles on purpose.  It is not rocket science to create balanced battles.  Only obstacle might be the total number of players.  Therefore one must also remove least popular battle modes for good.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

I feel like it needs even more stuff nerfed with it.

[Blutaar 1,904]

Scout is one thing, but Round Destabilizaton is something to be acknowledged too. Even so its not limited to these two augments only. Reduce the critical chances of railgun in general and adjust the regular damage. 900 is a negligible number for a long-range gun and doubling the damage for critical hits makes no sense at all

Edited March 29, 2021 by BloodPressure

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Either that, or restore the damage spreads.


And make it so that only Smoky, as well as Cryo, Incendiary, EMP, and Stun Rounds augments for Railgun are the only ones with a "Critical hit" mechanic.

 

Cause the universal critical hit thing messed up too much stuff.
 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tanker-Arthur

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

On 12/28/2018 at 1:59 AM, Tanker-Arthur said:

Lets discuss Juggernaut Mode, and more specifically, the main turrets used in Juggernaut Mode, and why it is unbalanced.

First of all.....the 2 turrets dominating Juggernaut Battles are Freeze and Striker, and you probably know why...

     Freeze easily cripples the Juggernaut, especially at the lower ranks.

     Striker can deal a massive amount of damage to the Juggernaut at any given salvo, especially with the "Missile Launcher Cyclone" Alteration             equipped.

And so.... there's not really much of a diversity in turrets in Juggernaut Mode. I mean, there's th

e occasional firebird, thunder, and railgun, but otherwise....eh.

That's why, I decided Tanki should do the following to the Juggernaut:

1. Juggernaut is immune to the Freezing Effect.
2. Juggernaut is immune to afterburn (to ease the minds of the angry Freeze users, and because firebird users will try to seize the opportunity to burn the Juggernaut without having the effect being removed by freezes).
3. Boost Terminator's damage up to the point where it can 1-shot a medium hull. (Shouldn't be a problem for most players, as everyone always tends to use Double Armor, don't they? Well, except for beginners, but then again, Juggernaut Mode isn't really available to beginners)

Those of you who agree with me please like this post.

 @LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH, looks like my less-smart younger self came up with the idea to make Juggernaut immune to all status effects.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

On 3/27/2021 at 12:38 AM, MysticBlood said:

Hello 50% crit chance is okay for stock railgun, but after the crit damage update,

Keeping 1/2 shots deals Crit using Railgun? You sure that's a good idea man?

[kydapoot 570]

This is an interesting discussion! I wanted to chime in with a potential explanation for the changes made to Railgun in this update.

I think part of the reason that Railgun was chosen to have such frequent/powerful criticals is that Falcon modules are so common. Before this update, we had a system where Railgun had to be OP to be playable with the modules, and then everyone had to upgrade their modules to survive Railguns, and then Railgun had to be more OP, etc.

Now that there are somewhat frequent protection-ignoring critical hits, the devs can balance railgun augments by modifying their critical damage and probabilities without having to worry so much about the Falcons running around everywhere, since they just counter the relatively weak regular shots.

I'm not certain whether that was the intention or not, but it's food for thought. The balance has certainly changed, and it's possible we'll see some further adjustments as was mentioned in the announcement topic.

[cosmic666 1,055]

7 minutes ago, kydapoot said:

This is an interesting discussion! I wanted to chime in with a potential explanation for the changes made to Railgun in this update.

I think part of the reason that Railgun was chosen to have such frequent/powerful criticals is that Falcon modules are so common. Before this update, we had a system where Railgun had to be OP to be playable with the modules, and then everyone had to upgrade their modules to survive Railguns, and then Railgun had to be more OP, etc.

Now that there are somewhat frequent protection-ignoring critical hits, the devs can balance railgun augments by modifying their critical damage and probabilities without having to worry so much about the Falcons running around everywhere, since they just counter the relatively weak regular shots.

I'm not certain whether that was the intention or not, but it's food for thought. The balance has certainly changed, and it's possible we'll see some further adjustments as was mentioned in the announcement topic.

How about adjusting the FLYING HACK, like get rid of it for good. 

[Frylock 1,617]

11 minutes ago, kydapoot said:

This is an interesting discussion! I wanted to chime in with a potential explanation for the changes made to Railgun in this update.

I think part of the reason that Railgun was chosen to have such frequent/powerful criticals is that Falcon modules are so common. Before this update, we had a system where Railgun had to be OP to be playable with the modules, and then everyone had to upgrade their modules to survive Railguns, and then Railgun had to be more OP, etc.

Now that there are somewhat frequent protection-ignoring critical hits, the devs can balance railgun augments by modifying their critical damage and probabilities without having to worry so much about the Falcons running around everywhere, since they just counter the relatively weak regular shots.

I'm not certain whether that was the intention or not, but it's food for thought. The balance has certainly changed, and it's possible we'll see some further adjustments as was mentioned in the announcement topic.

I was guessing this might be the case. One factor probally being the overuse of falcons. Thanks for your input.

[thunderhunter123 741]

E. Scout for Railgun is pretty okay if we have Railgun protection, but as you have said about critical, I also think the critical chance should be lowered, for more balance.

[kydapoot 570]

Hmm, I just went and played with Scout for a bit, and at least in legend battles, it doesn't feel too OP (at least, not any more so than other augments; rail in general is back in the meta right now). 

Spoiler

maybe it would be OP if I was better at aiming though

1 hour ago, cosmic666 said:

How about adjusting the FLYING HACK, like get rid of it for good. 

If you're referring to actual fly hacks, check out this page for reporting them - https://en.tankiwiki.com/Reporting_a_violator

If what you're talking about is Hopper's overdrive, though, then I'm afraid that there's no indication that it's going away. If it makes you feel better, it was recently nerfed so that it couldn't be reactivated if the Hopper dies right after.

[Spy 14,687]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:19 PM, beachhouse said:

 

Topic merged.

[Spy 14,687]

On 3/27/2021 at 7:38 AM, MysticBlood said:

 

Topic merged.

[numericable 2,375]

Back in the days, this augment was dealing damage when the tank was overheating, it was balanced at this moment because there were no heat immunities, but now that heat immunity showed up, players are abusing his effect without having penalty, so it is very hard to change heat immunity on my tank from another status immunity. What i suggest is to give burning effect of vulcan only when the tanki is overheating AND only in critical damage of vulcan. This way, players will start to equip a bit less heat immunity and then, firebird with heat augment will be used a bit more. Moreover, incendiary brand will be balanced compared to dragon breath for hammer, smoky burning augment etc.

Edited April 1, 2021 by numericable

[Matt_Black 203]

I really find it hard to believe that a game can have as many updates and changes as this one and still get worse every time! 

Let's start with hopper. I loved this hull, played with it for a while and then just got bored of winning all the time. Just like Magnum, Hopper has no barriers in the maps. There is very little overhead cover and what there is can only be described as a fire trap.  Tanki Is a 2D game, if you are going to enter 3D elements into it there has to be a counter for it.

I've got to agree with Cosmic666 on this flying cheat thing. 5-0 Rugby games in 90-120 seconds are not fun to play in for either side. Would you rather play 7 minutes of back and forth strategic game play or a minute and a half of undefendable scoring and spawn killing? 

It also has attributes that make it hard to play against apart from the stun and the flying. The hull stays flat when traversing ramps so it's easy to sit on a ramp with just the tip of the turret poking out and kill without being able to be hit back. Despite it not being a very powerful hull it simply drives over other tanks when you try to block it. It flies over minefields without setting off the mines. The first mine lifts it into the air and it cruises over the rest.  It's overdrive charges too quickly and apart from Mammoth the other overdrives are pretty much useless. I have been trying to come up with an anti Hopper tank. The best I have managed to come up with is Hunter/Vulcan/Sabatour but it only really works if I pick up the attacking Hopper at a distance and can fire off the overdrive before hopper jumps and even then because the Hopper overdrive is instant I get stunnned and my overdrive is wasted.

Now all of the turrets deal critical hits and not variable points. Railgun is the clear winner here. 50% protection DA and I'm back to being one shotted by rail again! 

I have to ask are any of these changes actually tested before they make it to the game? Not just for a week or two but long enough for the cheats and exploiters to figure out all the quirks and workarounds?

I have to assume it's done on purpose. It had to have been obvious that Hornets overdrive was going to make it incredibly OP but still it remained for a long time. Magnum has been an issue for years and yet it's still here. How long will this iteration of Hopper plague the game? 

 

Lastly I have a couple of simple to implement suggestions to improve balance. Change the auto pause to turret movement instead of hull movement. Make the hulls turn slower and the turrets turn faster. Make the capture/score points a point on the ground similar to a mine not in mid air, then it would be possible to defend the point. All overdrives to charge much slower and remove overdrive boxes and speed up effects from Dictator. 

[Poppy 422]

34 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

 

The counter for hopper is either freeze or gauss EMP. If they have immunity take a hull with an OD that can kill them and that loads fast and save it for him.

[Matt_Black 203]

How can you freeze hopper when it's in the air?

Guass EMP can only be had through spending a small fortune on containers or getting very lucky.

The only OD that can kill them is Mammoth and it loads about half as fast as Hoppers does.

 

[Akame 4,578]

8 hours ago, beachhouse said:

The counter for hopper is either freeze or gauss EMP. If they have immunity take a hull with an OD that can kill them and that loads fast and save it for him.

AP, Stun, Burn also exists.

 

5 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

How can you freeze hopper when it's in the air?

Guass EMP can only be had through spending a small fortune on containers or getting very lucky.

The only OD that can kill them is Mammoth and it loads about half as fast as Hoppers does.

 

Use dictator od  (though very very weak freeze status), provided you have stun immunity, cryo rounds of either smoky (is in this battle pass) or rail. Do note, if they have cold imm, don't bother.

Gauss EMP is actually not as reliable; AP is a bit more reliable tho.

Hunter is a great counter to hopper, but ONLY if you have stun immunity for it; now I wonder when that will be in the BP.

A crisis hopper who doesn't have heat imm that burns will feel the pain certainly, but applying the burn is a bit more trickier, I shall leave it there.

---

No I'm not defending hopper, I know it's tough for people to face them, especially when half or more of the playerbase are kids/bots.

You could be like me and just play CP, hoppers are less likely to be there since they prefer to abuse flag and rubgy modes.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Akame

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, beachhouse said:

The counter for hopper is either freeze or gauss EMP. If they have immunity take a hull with an OD that can kill them and that loads fast and save it for him.

So you need an immunity to deal with a hull.   That's just not a practical solution.  Should not require something that difficult to get in order to prevent a hull from being OP.

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 minute ago, Akame said:

now I wonder when that will be in the BP.

Already been.

[Akame 4,578]

Just now, wolverine848 said:

So you need an immunity to deal with a hull.   That's just not a practical solution.  Should not require something that difficult to get in order to prevent a hull from being OP.

Nowadays immunities are unfortunately a necessity, I,e titan needing the current bp's AP immunity to make sure hornets dont violate them. It's a sad era we are in unfortunately.