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Let's Discuss Game Balance


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44 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

You gotta admit as I mentioned  above, Gauss is one of those turrets that disrupts the balance between all turrets, hulls, and moduals. Plus 75-80 radius is still doable in its sniping  damage. Well I proceed to look at your profile the first turrets that are most used are Shaft and gauss of course you wouldn't like the idea. LOL welp this idea is to also discourage heavy camping as I have said before, and it will make hulls like wasp playable and melee turrets. Also will make other protection moduals playable. Ive said this too in my other topic for shaft. And yes I also use gauss but I think its still OP.

I mainly use long ranged guns hence my opinion is already detemined in advance and I cannot have a different opinion, seems about right. 

I am not going to deny that I am a long-range player, reason being that I prefer to have distance between enemies and me plus I generally try to avoid close-ranged encounters. I know what kind of equipment I use and I think objectively and realistic about their overall performance in battle. I am well aware that Gauss is overpowered and that Heavy Capacitors can be the worst. Even so I can still be sceptical about the idea of reducing damage over distance for long-range turrets. To say, camping is a 'strategy' that is being adopted by other turrets as well with which I mainly refer to Railgun and Magnum, both of which are (easily or through skill) capable of succesfully camping and can be extremely annoying to deal with. How do you perceive camping regarding those turrets? Should they have a damage drop-off over distances as well?

My first thought about your suggestion, decreasing a long ranged gun's performance at long ranges seems odd, the entire purpose of long-rangers is that they excell at combat over large distances while lacking capability to deal with enemies up close. On one hand I can see what you are trying to get at, on the other hand I am wondering why you are convinced that damage-reduction is the solution for above problem. 
My second thought would be why you've chosen for the radius of 80 metres. The max. range of Ricochet is already 70 metres and that is a close-range gun. Cutting down the max. damage radius for Shaft/Gauss to 80m will punish either turret for sniping targets at close-mid ranges. 
Third point I wanted to make which has mostly to do with me not fully understanding you: are you referring to a one-time damage-reduction or do you mean a continuing reduction over distance?

Lastly I would like to remind you of the existence of Owl and Eagle. Especially against turrets with high-damage shots modules are really effective. 

 

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56 minutes ago, BloodPressure said:

I mainly use long ranged guns hence my opinion is already detemined in advance and I cannot have a different opinion, seems about right. 

I am not going to deny that I am a long-range player, reason being that I prefer to have distance between enemies and me plus I generally try to avoid close-ranged encounters. I know what kind of equipment I use and I think objectively and realistic about their overall performance in battle. I am well aware that Gauss is overpowered and that Heavy Capacitors can be the worst. Even so I can still be sceptical about the idea of reducing damage over distance for long-range turrets. To say, camping is a 'strategy' that is being adopted by other turrets as well with which I mainly refer to Railgun and Magnum, both of which are (easily or through skill) capable of succesfully camping and can be extremely annoying to deal with. How do you perceive camping regarding those turrets? Should they have a damage drop-off over distances as well?

My first thought about your suggestion, decreasing a long ranged gun's performance at long ranges seems odd, the entire purpose of long-rangers is that they excell at combat over large distances while lacking capability to deal with enemies up close. On one hand I can see what you are trying to get at, on the other hand I am wondering why you are convinced that damage-reduction is the solution for above problem. 
My second thought would be why you've chosen for the radius of 80 metres. The max. range of Ricochet is already 70 metres and that is a close-range gun. Cutting down the max. damage radius for Shaft/Gauss to 80m will punish either turret for sniping targets at close-mid ranges. 
Third point I wanted to make which has mostly to do with me not fully understanding you: are you referring to a one-time damage-reduction or do you mean a continuing reduction over distance?

Lastly I would like to remind you of the existence of Owl and Eagle. Especially against turrets with high-damage shots modules are really effective. 

 

First of all I said 80 meters because it would compensate for Gauss's fast reload ability and for its fast lock on. As for shaft I said 90 because people would have to rely on the scope and the cross-hairs if outside the suggested radius. Plus shaft has a laser and has slightly longer reload than Gauss. Besides what I mean by 80 radius I mean the effectiveness for any tanks within the radius that will get inflicted by Gauss's base sniping damage well any enemy tanks outside the users radius span will have a somewhat of a hindrance since Gauss does not have a laser thus still making the player to use double damage to still be effective enough with or without a drone like crisis and booster. Furthermore, this nerf should also balance out the usage of hulls and melee turrets since melee turrets have to get within 5-10 radius well Gauss still being effective in the suggested radius. At the same time this idea of a nerf would indirectly nerf the augments for Gauss, especially EMP Gauss. As for AP Gauss as I had already stated above, it would keep its super shot radius at 6 because its smaller than the suggested 8, thus it would balance base Gauss and its augments. Furthermore it would make wasp playable please answer me this, how often do you see wasp players? In almost all of my MM matches wasp is almost never used because of the heavy usage of Gauss, Shaft, Rail, and now Magnum. So in conclusion this idea of a nerf should make all combos and moduals included playable and make all modes especially capture modes playable again.  To be fair Gauss did ruin all the capture modes and made the objectives impossible to complete due to heavy camping, thus I made this idea to balance out all combos and  in any situation. Dang I had to repeat myself twice to get my point across.

Edited by MysticBlood

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2 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Often. 

 

Especially now with the buff. 

Hmm I really still dont see enough wasp users even with the buff. it is still weak against one hit turrets. plus it has to travel very far just to get close to a long range user. basically wasp is still ineffective in the aspect .Especially when doing capture modes with wasp.

Edited by MysticBlood

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Just now, MysticBlood said:

Hmm I really still dont see enough wasp users even with the buff. it is still weak against one hit turrets. plus it has to travel very far just to get close to a long range user. basically wasp is still ineffective in the aspect.

It has the same HP as Hopper and Hornet. What makes Wasp more susceptible to one-taps than Hopper and Hornet if they have the same HP? 

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1 minute ago, TheCongoSpider said:

It has the same HP as Hopper and Hornet. What makes Wasp more susceptible to one-taps than Hopper and Hornet if they have the same HP? 

yes but as overdrives go, I would survive longer with hornet, and hopper because of strafing. As for wasp, it does have the same hp but the effectiveness of its od and radius is still not large enough. tanks can still get away or people having EMP or heat immunity on since those are common immunities. 

Edited by MysticBlood
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Just now, TheCongoSpider said:

It has the same HP as Hopper and Hornet. What makes Wasp more susceptible to one-taps than Hopper and Hornet if they have the same HP? 

Hopper is less affected by impact force, and it's mouse control side-strafing abilities make it much harder to shoot at than a Wasp and Hornet.

Hornet never even exposes itself much since a large number of people who use hornet tend to use it with Railgun and camp.
 

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3 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Wasp and hornet have pretty much the same survivability when targeted.

well I tend to survive longer with hornet bc of its od and its supercharge thus still making wasp look like a joke and effectiveness in all MM Matches.

Edited by MysticBlood
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37 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Hmm I really still dont see enough wasp users even with the buff. it is still weak against one hit turrets. plus it has to travel very far just to get close to a long range user. basically wasp is still ineffective in the aspect .Especially when doing capture modes with wasp.

Wasp has one of the most powerfull, or even  the most powerfull OD if you use it effectively. 

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Just now, mjmj5558 said:

Wasp has one of the most powerfull, or even  the most powerfull OD if you use it effectively. 

Yes but like I said before people will tend to use emp immunity or heat immunity to get away. thus it still has its same blast radius its just added effects.

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2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

well I tend to survive longer with hornet bc of its od and its supercharge thus still making wasp look like a joke and effectiveness in all MM Matches.

Wow.  I used it a lot in Siege and got tons of kills.  Pair it with freeze and no one escapes the blast.

Just used a wasp(m7-8)/freeze(m7-9) in Siege.  went 14-8, catching a lot of enemies hiding in their own dome at the CP as we won 3-0. All ya gotta do is ambush a few campers to get the OD jump-started...  and this combo has no augments.

Edited by wolverine848
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1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Wow.  I used it a lot in Siege and got tons of kills.  Pair it with freeze and no one escapes the blast.

Just used a wasp(m7-8)/freeze(m7-9) in Siege.  went 14-8, catching a lot of enemies hiding in their own dome at the CP as we won 3-0. All ya gotta do is ambush a few campers to get the OD jump-started...  and this combo has no augments.

Oh Here comes the gauss gang....Only a dumb camper would fall for a wasps bomb. So if you were going against a smart camper I grantee you that the wasp wouldn't last at all. Thus making the hull useless even if it did had freeze. 

Edited by MysticBlood
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6 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Oh Here comes the gauss gang....Only a dumb camper would fall for a wasps bomb. So if you were going against a smart camper I grantee you that the wasp wouldn't last at all. Thus making the hull useless even if it did had freeze. 

I didn't use the bomb on them - I did not have it yet.  I ambushed campers with Freeze and killed them to generate my OD.

Once I had OD I zipped into the dome, froze would-be-cappers and killed them.  Usually at least 3 per bomb.

But I'm curious how you figure the camper would escape the bomb if I chose to go that route.  The campers have their eyes on the cap-point to pick off valuable targets. Odds are they are not equipping cold-immunity even if they had it.  Once I start freezing they are not escaping.  Drop the bomb and run.  But's that's not how I did it.

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9 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I didn't use the bomb on them - I did not have it yet.  I ambushed campers with Freeze and killed them to generate my OD.

Once I had OD I zipped into the dome, froze would-be-cappers and killed them.  Usually at least 3 per bomb.

But I'm curious how you figure the camper would escape the bomb if I chose to go that route.  The campers have their eyes on the cap-point to pick off valuable targets. Odds are they are not equipping cold-immunity even if they had it.  Once I start freezing they are not escaping.  Drop the bomb and run.  But's that's not how I did it.

Then tell me how would you approach a smart heavy camper. If they see you coming with a wasp with a star ready, i'm pretty sure that the'll destroy you first. I'm particularity talking about Gauss since its very common in siege mode. 

Edited by MysticBlood
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2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

Then tell me how would you approach a smart heavy camper. If they see you coming with a wasp with a star ready, i'm pretty sure that the'll destroy you first. I'm particularity talking about Gauss since its very common in siege mode. 

They don't see you coming.  You don't drive right at them from where the action is.  And many maps don't have perfect camping spots where they can see everything, including the cap-points.  In Siege campers need to be where they can see the cap-points.  Easier on bigger maps of course.  But many campers have tunnel vision while looking for targets.

 

And you might be reading more into it than you should...

"All ya gotta do is ambush a few campers to get the OD jump-started"

I wasn't doing this all battle.  I boosted my OD at the start so I could go on killing sprees in the domes.

Edited by wolverine848

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25 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

They don't see you coming.  You don't drive right at them from where the action is.  And many maps don't have perfect camping spots where they can see everything, including the cap-points.  In Siege campers need to be where they can see the cap-points.  Easier on bigger maps of course.  But many campers have tunnel vision while looking for targets.

 

And you might be reading more into it than you should...

"All ya gotta do is ambush a few campers to get the OD jump-started"

I wasn't doing this all battle.  I boosted my OD at the start so I could go on killing sprees in the domes.

But then again on the html5 version they also have the radar on the bottom right.

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2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

But then again on the html5 version they also have the radar on the bottom right.

By then it's too late - range is not THAT far and my wasp is closing fast with SB on. IF they actually look at that while they are scanning for targets.

That early in the game they are not expecting to be ambushed.

Anyway, it DOES work.  Maybe not on Sandbox, but on the larger maps where you can arrive from multiple angles?  it does.

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2 hours ago, Rutgers said:

Normally I'd agree with this topic, but we are getting a 4th protection slot in the game real soon. And as some already suggested here, if you really fear gauss, just put on an owl module. Now with 4 slots, players can have 1 default slot dedicated to any turret they hate the most (railgun, gauss, thunder, whatever). And in my experience, Gauss is one of the worst turrets to play against its respective 40-50 prot, its almost useless against people who have them on. Unless you have booster I suppose. And they did add crit damage which is supposed to circumvent prots. Probably the best case scenario is to just switch your turret lol.

 

I say, before nerfing gauss in the way you have proposed, just wait until the 4th protection slot is available. That way, if you so choose, you can have owl module on at all times, and still pick 3 other prots to have against the enemy team. Play and experiment with that first, and then reconsider if gauss should be nerfed in the way you outlined it to be. Of course, I'm not sure on it either, so I will do the same as well.

 

If you really want to nerf stock gauss right now, I'd say decrease the grace period of the "lock-on mechanism" to match that of striker sniping mode. I never found the reasoning why striker has a MUCH longer sniping "lock-on mechanism" than gauss, but the grace period for when you lose the target during said sniping mode is much shorter than gauss. IMO, the longer the sniping time, the longer the grace period  should be for when you when you lose the target during sniping mode, and vice verca.

Even when the 4th modual is released I doubt that it would make that much of a difference since you would have to pay for the fourth slot with tankoins. Besides if less people used gauss they are most likely to use other moduals since theres no need to eqip owl if gauss players are evenly distributed. The players would get to use other moduals instead and try other combos. Gauss is still playable with emp and Ap augments. Even a booster or crisis user can still one or 2 hit tanks with super shots even if the enemy did had 50% protection modual against gauss.

Edited by MysticBlood
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Currently 90% of the times I am killed by magnum it is because of the long burn effect which seems to be just as damaging as the heat effect from firebird. Even with the incendiary band augment, there seem to be so many players using the augment that I have noticed that I am being killed by the fire damage from vulcan more than the bullets, and I am being killed by vulcan fire damage more than firebird. I believe there should be less fire damage for vulcan and, if necessary, more damage for the bullets. This is a game of course, but even in a tank game there needs to be some realism (to believe that it is even tank related), so it doesn't make sense in my mind that people die more from fire damage from a machine gun turret than they do to the bullets it fires.

Any comments are appreciated, I just believe the game could be slightly more realistic in this particular aspect, even though it is a game. 

Edit 1: I do not play vulcan however and this is purely based on instincts. It would help to hear whether other people share the same view as me so I could be more sure this is the case. I also play with wasp, but I feel if wasp can easily handle a mine, my tank should not be dying from fire damage rather than bullets. 

Edited by r_Fish.tank980
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Just now, r_Fish.tank980 said:

Currently 90% of the times I am killed by magnum it is because of the long burn effect which seems to be just as damaging as the heat effect from firebird. Even with the incendiary band augment, there seem to be so many players using the augment that I have noticed that I am being killed by the fire damage from vulcan more than the bullets, and I am being killed by vulcan fire damage more than firebird. I believe there should be less fire damage for vulcan and, if necessary, more damage for the bullets. This is a game of course, but even in a tank game there needs to be some realism (to believe that it is even tank related), so it doesn't make sense in my mind that people die more from fire damage from a machine gun turret than they do to the bullets it fires.

Any comments are appreciated, I just believe the game could be slightly more realistic in this particular aspect, even though it is a game. 

Edit 1: I do not play vulcan however and this is purely based on instincts. It would help to hear whether other people share the same view as me so I could be more sure this is the case. I also play with wasp, but I feel if wasp can easily handle a mine, my tank should not be dying from fire damage rather than bullets. 

The developers really need to delete the heat immunity hull augment. 


Vulcan was never meant to have "infinite ammo".

Back in my day, those Vulcans with fire damage had to actually sacrifice health in order to inflict the burning effect.

Meaning as long as they're burning you, they were also burning themselves, because at the time, they could only burn you if they ran out of ammo and started self-damaging themselves.

 

But yeah, Incendiary Band Vulcan does need less burning because Firebird was supposed to be the fire specialist. Not Vulcan.

Edited by Tanker-Arthur
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1 minute ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

The developers really need to delete the heat immunity hull augment. 


Vulcan was never meant to have "infinite ammo".

Back in my day, those Vulcans with fire damage had to actually sacrifice health in order to inflict the burning effect.

Meaning as long as they're burning you, they were also burning themselves, because at the time, they could only burn you if they ran out of ammo and started self-damaging themselves.

Exactly. Back when shaft wasn't a steady aim, and hopper didn't exist, and everything was a darker green. Paints were your protection.. yes I think this should be brought back, possibly this could be "fixed" (as I am not certain how others feel about this) by making certain augments incompatible with certain hulls? Or more realistically, I think that heat immunity should, rather than removing all heat, should remove like 95% of the heat from enemies, and maybe 20% of the heat from yourself (so I assume this would just apply to players using vulcan). 

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Just now, r_Fish.tank980 said:

possibly this could be "fixed" (as I am not certain how others feel about this) by making certain augments incompatible with certain hulls? Or more realistically, I think that heat immunity should, rather than removing all heat, should remove like 95% of the heat from enemies, and maybe 20% of the heat from yourself (so I assume this would just apply to players using vulcan)

Or just delete all hull augments lol.

But yeah, right now, a Heat Immunity provides way too much value. It's basically a protection module against Firebird.

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I have a problem, I'm First Sergeant and no matter what hull I use, I am being one shot by almost everyone, I can't even spawn properly, I find that very annoying. Can you do something for that? I don't think so.

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