category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[thunderhunter123 741]

Pretty nice balance between overdrive and speed.

Also, I like this because it won't be able to defeat Juggernaut easily!

[Akame 4,578]

Well currently viking increases damage, range (melees) and maybe fire rate for some items, i think they should just make it have an increased damage, but yeah its ridiculous, like a booster for 7s, and most of these vikings are using defender drone in many cases too, makes it a very good combo.

I think they should remove the range buff and fire rate changes, also remove the 'doesnt overheat' for vulcan too. 150% flat damage bonus for ranged and 200% flat bonus for melees for 7s sounds viable.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 6/17/2021 at 2:24 PM, Crossbone said:

I'm actually quite serious.  But its not gonna be an insane buff. More like something that can be added to make it a bit more lethal, especially against titans dome.

So... another counter to Titan dome?  Aren't there enough of those?

And how do you make it affect Titan dome without affecting all other hulls?

How do you figure it's not lethal enough?  About the only thing that can survive it is Titan dome.  Nothing wrong with having at least 1 counter vs Viking OD.

[wolverine848 13,097]

8 hours ago, Unleash said:

I think most players are using viking because its really good for attack and defence, i agree viking od can be nerfed from 7 sec to like 5 sec. I dont think anything except that 7 sec of shooting should be changed or nerfed. 

Many use Viking now because there's no immunity to it -there's no status effect.  Just a lot of more damaging shots.

And few counters - Titan dome and ... ?

[zadie 8]

Viking doesn't need a nerf, all that'll do is annoy a whole lot of players for no particular reason, other than catering to the few people (and I mean few) who've complained about it. The only time when Viking is too powerful (with some turrets) is with Jugg, but that's just because most of the other OP's just aren't as effective (although, actually, I do kill the Jugg just as much with Wasp, Mammoth and Ares). Evening-out it's damage with a few turrets probably wouldn't be a bad thing in this scenario. 

I don't know if you remember, or if you were here, but VIking has always been an incredibly popular hull, even long ago before OD's were in the game. It looks cool, and it feels good to drive. I can understand (although disagree with in most scenarios) wanting its OD to be nerfed - although skilled players should find it easy enough to deal with it, just open your eyes, you can literally see if a Viking is fully charged - but nerfing the hull's speed is a bad idea. Like I said before, all that'll do is annoy people. It won't make the game any better whatsoever, even for the people complaining, as the only one's who'll notice it are the people who use Viking. 

Also, this is coming from someone who's never really used Viking much, other than with this particular account (one of many), and from the perspective of someone who's used it, as well as played against it, it's honestly not that great - I find Hunter to be a lot more versatile, and Dictator to help the team a lot more. Even using crusader is better in normal battles, as I can actually kill people in a Titan's dome. 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I don't really think Viking overdrive needs a nerf, coming from someone who uses almost all hulls between my main and alt accounts - and I don't have a problem fighting Vikings when I'm using other hulls. I do however think Hunter could do with a slight buff, and Wasp also.

As for Juggernaut mode, I think Hunter overdrive should do something to Juggernaut (maybe the Juggernaut should not be immune, or only have 50% reduced duration to Jammer effects???), and also the Juggernaut should be made vulnerable (50% protection) to heat effects - every since it was given immunity to Stun and heat Hunter and Firebird have been so useless there. This partly contributes to the current dominance of Viking in that mode.

Edited June 19, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[Crossbone 516]

8 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So... another counter to Titan dome?  Aren't there enough of those?

And how do you make it affect Titan dome without affecting all other hulls?

How do you figure it's not lethal enough?  About the only thing that can survive it is Titan dome.  Nothing wrong with having at least 1 counter vs Viking OD.

Yeah, I was thinking about that part. What I didn't like about titans dome was that it could protect many teammates for such a long period of time. I think I have a way to fix both sides of the titan OD dilemma.

 

45 minutes ago, zadie said:

The only time when Viking is too powerful (with some turrets) is with Jugg, but that's just because most of the other OP's just aren't as effective (although, actually, I do kill the Jugg just as much with Wasp, Mammoth and Ares).

Crusaders OD is pretty good against the juggernaut as well. Acts like a secondary turret kinda. I've killed plenty of them just with the icicles.

 

53 minutes ago, zadie said:

Also, this is coming from someone who's never really used Viking much, other than with this particular account (one of many), and from the perspective of someone who's used it, as well as played against it, it's honestly not that great - I find Hunter to be a lot more versatile, and Dictator to help the team a lot more. Even using crusader is better in normal battles, as I can actually kill people in a Titan's dome. 

As someone who has years of experience using Viking, its a breath of fresh air knowing that this is how an unbiased non Viking main feels about it.

 

Here's my stance on Vikings OD:

Is it strong? Sure. Is it broken? No, unless you have certain turret augment or certain turrets equipped.

 

What if the firing rate, the damage, or the duration of Viking OD was nerfed in general?

The turrets that are actually balanced with the OD currently will then just be weak with it. The turrets that are currently OP with the OD might be the only things that'll be balanced while the turret augments might remain unchanged, who knows.

 

So what should be done to make Vikings OD balanced?

It would be best to revert all turrets back to their default versions for the duration. This would solve a massive problem concerning Vikings OD. Next would be to nerf the firing rate of the very turrets that make vikings OD OP, but only for the duration of the OD.

[Frylock 1,617]

People be like "But Vikings OD is not OP and it needs a buff" For all ya viking simps, heres a screen shot of me using an MK3 VIKING IN THIS MATCH and still dominated. Anyone still  wanna tell me that this hull is balanced? In this case, I have proven my point.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/ijDCSnHUBdWaVeja6

Edited June 20, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Crossbone 516]

5 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

People be like "But Vikings OD is not OP and it needs a buff" For all ya viking simps, heres a screen shot of me using an MK3 VIKING IN THIS MATCH and still dominated. Anyone still  wanna tell me that this hull is balanced? In this case, I have proven my point.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/ijDCSnHUBdWaVeja6

You call that dominating?

Dominating a battle means you scored at least 500 points or gotten at least a 5.0 KD. Your screenshot proved to me that you only managed to get first place in a battle with either a bunch of noobs or people that don't care about the battle.

And that was just one battle, and you still haven't revealed what turret you were using.

[Frylock 1,617]

3 hours ago, Crossbone said:

You call that dominating?

Dominating a battle means you scored at least 500 points or gotten at least a 5.0 KD. Your screenshot proved to me that you only managed to get first place in a battle with either a bunch of noobs or people that don't care about the battle.

And that was just one battle, and you still haven't revealed what turret you were using.

True but i was using an mk3 viking like i specified. If i had an mk7 i would probally have gotten way more kills. I was using an mk7 thunder with no upgrades. Of course i wasnt gonna get a lot of kills with thunder unless i had to use the od. And i wasnt using any drones that one match. Tbh its kinda comical you would still support the hull despite my viking being an mk3 and yet still got first competing against another mk7 even mk8 equipment. Viking litterally takes no skill to use its just a stupid od with few to 0 counters unlike other ODs. I still say that viking needs a nerf in its OD.

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Crossbone 516]

4 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

True but i was using an mk3 viking like i specified. If i had an mk7 i would probally have gotten way more kills. I was using an mk7 thunder with no upgrades. Of course i wasnt gonna get a lot of kills with thunder unless i had to use the od. And i wasnt using any drones that one match.

That was just ONE battle where you just got lucky, that's all. The only thing that that one battle proves is that Viking CAN dominate a battle from time to time. It doesn't prove that it DOES dominate battles all the time.

4 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

Viking litterally takes no skill to use its just a stupid od with few to 0 counters unlike other ODs.

Might not take much skill to use, but neither do the ODs of wasp, hornet, hopper, dictator, and titan.

And unlike wasp, hornet, and hopper, viking can be countered by practically every hull. Viking has to stay exposed for 7 seconds to maximize its OD effect while all the other mentioned hulls can just hit it and do whatever they want and their effects will be maximized regardless.

 

5 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

Tbh its kinda comical you would still support the hull despite my viking being an mk3 and yet still got first competing against another mk7 even mk8 equipment. I still say that viking needs a nerf in its OD.

And this part just exposes you as a biased player who wouldn't care if Viking was nerfed to the ground, so long as you can kill it quickly and easily.

[Frylock 1,617]

2 hours ago, Crossbone said:

And this part just exposes you as a biased player who wouldn't care if Viking was nerfed to the ground, so long as you can kill it quickly and easily.

First of all, I have Mained this hull before in my other accs. i can still say that this hull as an od is OP. PRETTY UNFAIR to those I go against that wanna try to have fun using different hulls and for this cancerous OD to ruin other peoples experience of the modes they wanna play especially in TJR mode and also capture modes. EVEN I think this hull still needs a nerf at least in its duration but like I said before I would like it to have faster charge to make up for the loss duration time. YES I AM also guilty in using this hull in the past but I think its vikings turn to at least get a somewhat of a nerf. All the other hulls have been reworked buffed or nerfed over time ESPECIALLY HOVERING HULLS (Hopper being the MOST effected) nerfed with their movement. And yet we have not seen almost any change to the hull viking. *And please still don't give me that viking is balanced*  

[Crossbone 516]

1 hour ago, MysticBlood said:

And please still don't give me that viking is balanced*  

I never said it was balanced in general. I just said that the reason why it was broken was because of the turret augments and some of the turrets that have a ridiculous firing rate for their damage.

1 hour ago, MysticBlood said:

EVEN I think this hull still needs a nerf at least in its duration but like I said before I would like it to have faster charge to make up for the loss duration time. 

All it'll get then is 1 kill per activation, maybe 2. If this happens, no one will even think about looking at Viking, let alone equip it and use it in battle. Except for maybe "simps". Everyone will just go flock to crusader or any other hull. And I do mean everyone.

2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

Hopper being the MOST effected

Yeah sure. Being able to end a CTF, rugby, ASL battle in 2 minutes is " TOTALLY BALANCED"

2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

I have Mained this hull before in my other accs.

Well good for you. Should I arrange a parade to celebrate you making this accomplishment?

[The_Resistance 135]

Everyone uses this hull because Hornet was nerfed and now harder to use. Plus Viking has by far most easy to understand/use OD. Plus everyone in all games love damage multiplicators.

I see two ways to kil vikinapocalipsys. Somehow rework the OD (hull itself is garbage, only adv: height of it make some projectiles miss). And/or make other offensive hulls better.

[Crossbone 516]

2 hours ago, The_Resistance said:

Everyone uses this hull because Hornet was nerfed and now harder to use. Plus Viking has by far most easy to understand/use OD.

Actually, viking was still popular back in the day even before ODs were an idea. And that's literally because it suited many different playing styles, plus it looked really nice.

But honestly, its now just a shell of its former self.

[Frylock 1,617]

11 hours ago, Crossbone said:

I never said it was balanced in general. I just said that the reason why it was broken was because of the turret augments and some of the turrets that have a ridiculous firing rate for their damage.

All it'll get then is 1 kill per activation, maybe 2. If this happens, no one will even think about looking at Viking, let alone equip it and use it in battle. Except for maybe "simps". Everyone will just go flock to crusader or any other hull. And I do mean everyone.

Yeah sure. Being able to end a CTF, rugby, ASL battle in 2 minutes is " TOTALLY BALANCED"

Well good for you. Should I arrange a parade to celebrate you making this accomplishment?

After reading your statements, you have not supported your argument at all on why you think this hull is balanced. You havent even shown me a statistics chart. You just keep saying Vikings balanced without any evidence to prove me wrong otherwise. UNTIL YOU CAN Prove me wrong that this hull is balanced so you say. You are just barking off the wall. COMMON PROVE ME WRONG WHY YOU THINK THIS HULLS  balanced. What justifies a your statement. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Crossbone 516]

41 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

After reading your statements, you have not supported your argument at all on why you think this hull is balanced. You havent even shown me a statistics chart. You just keep saying Vikings balanced without any evidence to prove me wrong otherwise. UNTIL YOU CAN Prove me wrong that this hull is balanced so you say. You are just barking off the wall. COMMON PROVE ME WRONG WHY YOU THINK THIS HULLS  balanced. What justifies a your statement. 

What kind of imbecile are you?

 

How are you not getting my statements of me saying "I didn't say Viking was balanced"? 

I will say this one last time: the real problem with Viking OD lies with turret augments and some of the turrets.

[Frylock 1,617]

49 minutes ago, Crossbone said:

What kind of imbecile are you?

 

How are you not getting my statements of me saying "I didn't say Viking was balanced"? 

I will say this one last time: the real problem with Viking OD lies with turret augments and some of the turrets.

True you may have said this but you also said. 

 

On 6/17/2021 at 9:59 AM, Crossbone said:

Aside from that, I honestly think that Viking OD needs a buff.

Who feels dumb now when you said this particular statement. I was talking about a nerf for its od. And you tried so hard to defend this hull.

Edited June 21, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Crossbone 516]

2 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

True you may have said this but you also said. 

 

Who feels dumb now when you said this particular statement. I was talking about a nerf for its od. And you tried so hard to defend this hull.

Well maybe it didn't need a buff if this idea becomes a thing.

And no, I don't regret saying it nor do I feel dumb.

[fire_shoter 555]

10 minutes ago, Crossbone said:

 

And no, I don't regret saying it nor do I feel dumb.

I support you!

[Benefactor 6,888]

If you shorten the duration for the Viking overdrive, then add either AP to its turret effects or 100% protection vs everything (effects included) for that shortened duration. 

[Frylock 1,617]

9 minutes ago, Benefactor said:

If you shorten the duration for the Viking overdrive, then add either AP to its turret effects or 100% protection vs everything (effects included) for that shortened duration. 

I think just faster charge to compensate for loss time is better. Adding AP effect would be pointless since most turret augments have already  apply status effects even when using vikings OD.

Edited June 22, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Newton_Error 14]

Shaft has a ridiculously high damage compared to others turrets at lower ranks it can one shot any medium hull without any boosted damage which is totally overpowered. Shafts also have a comparatively fast fire rate at arcade mode which once close enough can deal a moderate damage. At lower ranks most people don't have enough protection against it which is the only reason it is very strong. It can also shoot form gaps and doesn't have any damage drop. Not only that in very large maps approximately size that of highway. The laser doesn't even reach the other side and tends to stop a bit after the midway. which tend to cause unawareness.

here's some solution:

###only at ranks mentioned at the end.###

###these are all individual solutions and only one is applicable at most not all at once.###

1) Damage should be reduced such that it cannot one shot an unprotected medium-hull.

2) peripheral vision should be reduced even more.

3) it should not be able to deal adequate damage until the load bar is completely exhausted.(except heavy capacitator)

4) reduction in arcade mode's fire rate.(except rapid fire mode)

 

**The laser bug should be fixed such that it can trace till the end of the map**

lower ranks reference (Staff Sergeant-Captain ).

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Newton_Error

[Spy 14,687]

54 minutes ago, Newton_Error said:

**The laser bug should be fixed such that it can trace till the end of the map**

Bugs should be reported here. 

[mjmj5558 2,346]

1 hour ago, Newton_Error said:

Shaft has a ridiculously high damage compared to others turrets at lower ranks it can one shot any medium hull without any boosted damage which is totally overpowered. Shafts also have a comparatively fast fire rate at arcade mode which once close enough can deal a moderate damage. At lower ranks most people don't have enough protection against it which is the only reason it is very strong. It can also shoot form gaps and doesn't have any damage drop. Not only that in very large maps approximately size that of highway. The laser doesn't even reach the other side and tends to stop a bit after the midway. which tend to cause unawareness.

here's some solution:

###only at ranks mentioned at the end.###

###these are all individual solutions and only one is applicable at most not all at once.###

1) Damage should be reduced such that it cannot one shot an unprotected medium-hull.

2) peripheral vision should be reduced even more.

3) it should not be able to deal adequate damage until the load bar is completely exhausted.(except heavy capacitator)

4) reduction in arcade mode's fire rate.(except rapid fire mode)

 

**The laser bug should be fixed such that it can trace till the end of the map**

lower ranks reference (Staff Sergeant-Captain ).

 

 

Shaft is supposed to one shot medium hulls, because it's a sniper turret. Moreover, all stats duplicate from m0 to mk7-20 for all turrets and hulls, so it would be illogical to change this. 

However, i did notice the laser bug too (are you a mobile or a PC player?), and I agree in that, it should be fixed.