category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Cleric 1,385]

9 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

 

 

Back to you in cased you missed my second point. I have clearly also said this statement.

You have not edited the post when I posted mine.

I never agree the critical damage update ruined the game. It seems that you made the assumption that I do. In fact, I feel that the protection modules are way too annoying.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Warpriest

[Frylock 1,617]

32 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

I don't know how many times have you fight against Hoppers, but all I can tell you that it is a very poor experience. They are like pest. Hard to hit and very annoying.

Hoppers are easier to kill now. You know turrets that exist you know....Gauss, Striker, Shaft, Magnum.  You know....USE long range class weapons or medium if your using striker. If you are going against a hopper using defender, Crisis, or trickster, you know you can use AP or EMP status effects. You know we also have Crusaders OD, Hunters OD, as much as I hate this OD it easily kills hoppers..Vikings OD. And possibly wasps bomb. (Forgot to add Hornets OD) to the list.

Edited August 9, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Frylock 1,617]

8 minutes ago, Warpriest said:

You have not edited the post when I posted mine.

I never agree the critical damage update ruined the game. It seems that you made the assumption that I do. In fact, I feel that the protection modules are way too annoying.

You didn't read it properly. I generalized this statement.

 

24 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Just like how we thought before that the critical damage update will ruin the games balance and ruin the game as a whole

I said we as in everyone...not assuming...or I should have said majority to be more specific.

Edited August 9, 2021 by MysticBlood

[G-92 104]

7 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

Okay you claim that hopper is OP on its own, but have you at least tried it after its nerfs??? Its balanced now. But heres the catch dont use crisis defender or trickster on the hull.. then make a final judgement. You cant have made such claims like those if you haven't tried it. XD

Yes I can and will continue to do so. Have I tried it  x1000,000, there is your answer to that question, quite a definitive one to, next lame question on a post card please. 

As for your weak response to my strong accusations (facts) @At_Shin most of what you presented does not help players in BATTLE. As for html5, It's still full of glitches and the way the garage works is useless, takes far to long to change equipment. Most of what you presented that does affect battles directly favours buyers, so bad ideas all round.

As for game economy, I'm all in favour of TO making cash to keep the game running, but there's making cash and then there is abusing that power, which the devs do on a regular basis.

In the main I enjoy TO because I'm good at it, been playing it since 2013 and I have seen countless changes, most of these changes have been bad and no, I will not list them all as I would be typing for hours. Regardless of what you post to try and counter my steadfast, factual, statements, TO has become far to complicated and game play is a joke for most players. This is because they find it increasingly hard to get started when they join a battle with the huge amount of OP combos aimed at them.

I may not like crunching the numbers to get my point across, but what I do post is based on hard evidence that I see play out in the vast majority of battles I go into.

I don't lie or mislead, unlike some I could mention, but let's not namedrop shall we.

[PirateSpider 1,489]

8 hours ago, Warpriest said:

This should be considered twice before implementing it.

Hopper shouldn't have even been considered once, it should've just been scrapped when it was still a concept.

[Frylock 1,617]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:18 PM, G-92 said:

Nope, please elaborate and enlighten us all with your insight about how the devs listen to player feedback.

You claim that developers don't listen to player feedback yet @At_Shin has clearly showed you the ideas that got implemented to the game regarding to this statement. Thats still technically listening to players feedback. You should not ALWAYS blame developers for their updates. The ones that are to blame is us forumers and the rest of the tanki community that did ask for some of these updates.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by MysticBlood

[G-92 104]

23 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

You should not ALWAYS blame developers for their updates.

Really. And who do you think brings the updates into the game, the tooth fairy.

You believe what you want, I no you are full of it. When are going to try out for mod status, because that's what you are leading up to.

Do me a favour and don't reply anymore, your a joke and a bad one at that.

 

[Frylock 1,617]

3 minutes ago, G-92 said:

Really. And who do you think brings the updates into the game, the tooth fairy.

You believe what you want, I no you are full of it. When are going to try out for mod status, because that's what you are leading up to.

Do me a favour and don't reply anymore, your a joke and a bad one at that.

 

You know if you look under archives about 52% of forumers ideas actually got implemented in the game over the years. Lol unless you havent been playing that long to see the ideas.

[Frylock 1,617]

13 minutes ago, G-92 said:

Do me a favour and don't reply anymore, your a joke and a bad one at that.

At this point your in denial. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by MysticBlood

[PirateSpider 1,489]

30 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

You claim that developers don't listen to player feedback yet @At_Shin has clearly showed you the ideas that got implemented to the game regarding to this statement. Thats still technically listening to players feedback. You should not ALWAYS blame developers for their updates. The ones that are to blame is us forumers and the rest of the tanki community that did ask for some of these updates.

 

I don't always blame the devs for bad updates. I remember wanting to get my hands on the persons neck who suggested that gauss should get an emp augment. That was just bad since it lead to more status effects being released.

Then there was the permanent exp boost which another forumer suggested. And arms race.

But then there are updates that no one asked for. I mean who the hell asked for gauss turret, hopper, and giving wasp bomb more status effects?

11 minutes ago, G-92 said:

Really. And who do you think brings the updates into the game, the tooth fairy.

I think the devs showed some really bad judgement when they implemented some of the stuff. So here, they're partly to blame.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

17 hours ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

I just bought Tesla Mk4

Arthur with that 46% Eagle??? 

 

[yellowghetto 3,206]

17 minutes ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Arthur with that 46% Eagle??? 

 

Eagle is for Shaft.

Weasel is Tesla

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Just now, yellowghetto said:

Eagle is for Shaft.

Weasel is Tesla

IK the module names, it's just that I haven't see his set up for long time.

[Okami 3,041]

(More) proof that Tesla is OP:
I just played a PRO Battle in Polygon DM. mira.s.r.o was initially using Firebird, but quickly switched to Tesla Mk2/Viking. sasuke699 used Tesla Mk4/Viking for the entire duration of the battle. (I used Freeze/Hunter).

It's basic logic that people with comparatively weak tanks should not be dominating the battle.

Edited August 9, 2021 by GrayWolf8733

[G-92 104]

4 hours ago, At_Shin said:

Thank you for stating the obvious. No really! I had no idea the garage was like this! .

 You wanted some proof of the devs accepting player feedback, well here it is (provided in my last post). Of course, these "bad ideas" helped the game survive which is why calling them bad ideas is itself a bad idea.

Do you know if anybody is being forced into making a purchase from the TO shop? Obviously, players are buying because they want to buy. If nobody wanted to buy OP items then the game would not have had so many OP items. So, how do you go about stating that the devs are abusing that power? Do the devs control players' minds into buying stuff? 

Care to elaborate on that?

He talks of facts but provides no evidence.

That is just your theory. Do you have any facts to support your claim? There are many other games which are even more complicated than TO but they are extremely popular. The only reason why TO has less players right now is because they stopped advertising the game a few years ago.

OP combos is not a big problem in the low ranks anyway. I do not see why new players will find it increasingly hard to get started in low ranks. The real problem will start when they will reach mid ranks and face legends.

That is a valid strategy. I use it too. However, this strategy has the disadvantage of often leading one to state "facts" without evidence of its truth. That is one disadvantage of this strategy.

I never provide facts, yeah ok. My facts are what I see in battles every single day. Do the devs have mind control over players, of course not, but they do no the mindset of buyers, which is as good as.

Ok give me one prime example of the devs acting on player feedback that actually made a difference IN BATTLE, because at the end of the day it's when you join a battle that all these OP updates come to the fore. Player feedback lol, It's a myth nothing else.

You keep defending the devs with your yes sir, no sir, attitude and ignore the blatant cheap tricks they use to extract easy money from the buyers.

As for low rankers going up against legends, suppose that has nothing to do with the devs either. They make the game the way it is for a reason. Unbalanced, unfair and OP gear only available if you spend obscene amounts of cash. 

Tell you what mod how about answering this question about one of the devs updates, try and give a honest answer if that's at all possible.

The devs said that the update they did for the micro upgrading, which removed the ability to micro upgrade if you could acquire the next MK at any particular rank was because and I quote, "It was to complicated for new players" 

Now I and many other players no that's a load of trash. What's your take on their explanation. By the way this is just one of many examples of the way the devs treat their player base, with contempt. 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

1 hour ago, FrozenRailgun said:

Arthur with that 46% Eagle??? 

Four more and I've got 1 percent for each official state in America. :)

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, FrozenRailgun said:

I haven't see his set up for long time

Oh yeah, my current set-up is:

• Tesla Mk4
  • Doesn't even need an augment.
  • Doesn't even need to be upgraded any higher - really though, if they nerf Tesla's damage, the Mk8 Tesla should do as much damage as Mk4 Tesla does now.
• Hunter Mk8
  • Heat Immunity (Because it's essentially a fourth protection module against Firebird, so why not)
• Eagle 46%
• Orka 46%
• Falcon 46%
• Mechanic Drone
  • For the "Finish in top 3 of the winning team" missions that I very much hate.

 

FunFact: Originally, I bought the Falcon and Eagle modules in 2017 and I bought Orka in 2020 to counter my Striker's self-damage....

 

And what luck; this year, the devs buffed Railgun, Striker, and Shaft all to high levels of power so looks like my investment payed off....although the Falcon module doesn't seem to work around a third of the time but still - buffed Railgun, more Railgun users, more people that my module can block....two thirds of the time at least. :)

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

30 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

• Tesla Mk4
  • Doesn't even need an augment.
  • Doesn't even need to be upgraded any higher - really though, if they nerf Tesla's damage, the Mk8 Tesla should do as much damage as Mk4 Tesla does now.

What happened? You cheated on your Striker for Tesla? 

32 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Hunter Mk8

• Heat Immunity (Because it's essentially a fourth protection module against Firebird, so why not)

Well, almost as Firebird's direct damage is unscathed.

33 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Originally, I bought the Falcon and Eagle modules in 2017

The 1st time I went to your Tanki profile during 2018, me went "Y U USE EAGLE SKRUB?! U! GIT OUTTA HERE!". It took me a good while to fan that down after I main on Eagle module myself.

Question, before the 6/4/2018 module rework, was it the Eagle D-A? Falcon S-A and Falcon S-B modules that you bought separately? Or perhaps Griffon T-E? Because I am sure that you knew when I bought mines (aside Spider module which was much later on).

45 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

Mechanic Drone

• For the "Finish in top 3 of the winning team" missions that I very much hate.

Make it times 15 and you get a really cancerous mission to get it done.

46 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

And what luck; this year, the devs buffed Railgun, Striker, and Shaft all to high levels of power so looks like my investment payed off

I'd rather rebalance those 3 dudes especially Shaft... on your suggestions but altered by me.

Judging by those, they are related to Critical Damage. You suggested that Supercharged should boost the turret's damage by 25% on your Alternation concepts on Google Drive. That itself gave me the idea to rebalance Critical damage (which means the damage boost but strip off its module-piercing trait). Toss Armadillo module to da trash and give  full refund to those who upgraded it (yes the Speed-Ups will too, get factored in), not a single crystal less. 

54 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

although the Falcon module doesn't seem to work around a third of the time but still - buffed Railgun, more Railgun users, more people that my module can block....two thirds of the time at least. :)

It need another rebalance. RN it is still depend on its 1.6k module-piercing damage. 

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

What happened? You cheated on your Striker for Tesla? 

Yeah, my favorite paint is Electra, I like anything to do with electricity, I wanted them to add an electric turret since 2017, Tesla is an electric turret, and a cool one as well.

Striker has an electric name and missile launchers are awesome too, but, Tesla is more fun to use.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

Well, almost as Firebird's direct damage is unscathed

FunFact (Disregard if you already know this): According to the Tanki Wiki's burning effect page, the afterburn that Firebird inflicts also burns the enemy while the Firebird is still shooting at them. So while shooting, Firebird actually has a damage output of 1000 damage per second at Mk8 (700 direct damage, 300 burn damage per second from burn effect).

So Heat Immunity blocks the afterburn and so the hull augment essentially is a 30% damage resistance against any Firebird except Incendiary Mix users. 

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

The 1st time I went to your Tanki profile during 2018, me went "Y U USE EAGLE SKRUB?! U! GIT OUTTA HERE!". It took me a good while to fan that down after I main on Eagle module myself.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

Question, before the 6/4/2018 module rework, was it the Eagle D-A? Falcon S-A and Falcon S-B modules that you bought separately? Or perhaps Griffon T-E? Because I am sure that you knew when I bought mines (aside Spider module which was much later on).

I'm not sure what name it had, but it was the module that had Railgun + Shaft. Maybe you said it, but sorry, I forgot the names of the original module system. (I think it was the Eagle D-A)

Not gonna lie, that module system was extremely confusing (and pretty unbalanced lol) so I'm very glad it was changed to the way it is now.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

Make it times 15 and you get a really cancerous mission to get it done

It was only easy when Mechanic granted 7 points per ally healed....

Now, it's super cancer. Especially since they didn't nerf the supply-consuming drones so now competing against players with those drones for the top spots in the leaderboards is very very hard.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

I'd rather rebalance those 3 dudes especially Shaft... on your suggestions but altered by me.

My opinion:

• Railgun was fine before 2021
• Striker was fine before March 2021
• Shaft was fine before 2019  

Honestly, they were all unnecessarily buffed. Before all these buffs, the only turrets that seemed to be strong at the time was Gauss and Magnum. Magnum actually seems fine now since the recent reload speed nerf. But anyways, they didn't touch Gauss at all for a year or two till after the critical damage update. So I assume instead of initially nerfing Gauss, the devs decided to just buff everything (Railgun, Striker, Shaft, Hammer, Isida in this instance) to be equal or somewhat closer in power to Gauss, which, yes, makes things balanced, but sucks because since offense is being buffed but no defense is buffed to compensate, we die faster overall in battles.

Easy solution was to just nerf Gauss...but they decided to overcomplicate everything and buff a bunch of things and rework game mechanics we've gotten used to for years and had no real, urgent problem with.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

Judging by those, they are related to Critical Damage.

You are 90% correct.

• Railgun's problem: Critical damage
• Striker's problem: Critical damage and it severely outclasses Thunder so Striker needs a small reload nerf and Thunder needs a small damage buff. 
  • I really hate that the two turrets deal the exact same base damage ever since the critical damage update was done. Thunder obviously is the bigger caliber/turret so its logical that it should do a little more damage at least.
• Shaft's problem: Critical damage and the sniping shot damage is too high AND the charge up while sniping is too fast.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

You suggested that Supercharged should boost the turret's damage by 25% on your Alternation concepts on Google Drive

I did :D

Keep in mind, the 25% isn't static...

I just didn't want the Supercharge effect to be based on "critical hits" cause, ideally, I honestly think the only things in Tanki that should've done critical hits are Smoky and any critical hit based alterations the developers would've wanted to add for other turrets.

And since in my opinion, all other turrets shouldn't do critical hit, Supercharge (which is a cool concept for a status effect, not gonna lie), should have some other damage boosting property instead, but not be too similar to Double Damage.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

That itself gave me the idea to rebalance Critical damage (which means the damage boost but strip off its module-piercing trait)

Ohh, that could work.

I'm sorry, it's just my pet-peeve that every turret should be unique in some way and I feel like having every turret have a critical hit kinda makes Smoky lose it's specialty in the game.

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

Toss Armadillo module to da trash

Or turn it into the protection module for B0-NK :)

If that thing ever gets added as a real turret....

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

give  full refund to those who upgraded it (yes the Speed-Ups will too, get factored in), not a single crystal less

:D

Just now, FrozenRailgun said:

It need another rebalance. RN it is still depend on its 1.6k module-piercing damage. 

I dunno, but Railgun before critical damage was just fine.

In fact, what I really don't get, is why do people think it sucks in MM cause of the Falcons, yet it still remains as the most popular and favorite turret in the game? I know format battles exist and all, but still. Lol, it's kinda ironic...

Edited August 10, 2021 by Tanker-Arthur

[yellowghetto 3,206]

11 hours ago, GrayWolf8733 said:

(More) proof that Tesla is OP:
I just played a PRO Battle in Polygon DM. mira.s.r.o was initially using Firebird, but quickly switched to Tesla Mk2/Viking. sasuke699 used Tesla Mk4/Viking for the entire duration of the battle. (I used Freeze/Hunter).

It's basic logic that people with comparatively weak tanks should not be dominating the battle.

Reminds me of when Striker, Magnum and Gauss, and every other Turret released.

[G-92 104]

16 hours ago, MysticBlood said:

You know if you look under archives about 52% of forumers ideas actually got implemented in the game over the years. Lol unless you havent been playing that long to see the ideas.

And how many of these ideas helped your average joe player in battle, without costing a small fortune.

I will reiterate one last time just for you and the mod. PLAYER FEEDBACK that the devs introduced into TO that helped players in BATTLE, not useless crap and not updates that only catered exclusively to buyers.

There you go, is that crystal clear enough for you to grasp. 

[Cleric 1,385]

3 hours ago, yellowghetto said:

Reminds me of when Striker, Magnum and Gauss, and every other Turret released.

While unlike those turrets, the Devs have over a month of "early access" to assess the situation. "Tesla is OP" is a clear fact right from the beginning. You see people complain about it in every single public channel since day one.

I can only think of two possibility causing that. The Devs are extremely ignorant. Or the Devs are trying their very best to milk from their favorite money maker.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Warpriest

[Frylock 1,617]

2 hours ago, G-92 said:

And how many of these ideas helped your average joe player in battle, without costing a small fortune.

I will reiterate one last time just for you and the mod. PLAYER FEEDBACK that the devs introduced into TO that helped players in BATTLE, not useless crap and not updates that only catered exclusively to buyers.

There you go, is that crystal clear enough for you to grasp. 

Well these players did ask for these things and the devs implemented them later on after when they thought about some lol. Still 52% is still a large number of ideas that got accepted. Thats more than half the stuff. They couldnt just put everything because 48% of them would ask for things that would either harm the tanki economy further or some ideas would have made the game just unplayable. If we didnt have buyers there would be no game at all. I dont mind them existing in the game it's just some the newer augments that are UC exclusive is unbalanced. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by MysticBlood

[G-92 104]

6 hours ago, Warpriest said:

I can only think of two possibility causing that. The Devs are extremely ignorant. Or the Devs are trying their very best to milk from their favorite money maker.

All of the above.

Oh and watch out, are that professor of grammar might pull you on yours, even though his own spelling is atrocious at times.   

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

How each default turret should be unique:

• Firebird - Afterburn effect
• Freeze - Freezing effect
• Isida - Healing ability
• Tesla - Chain attack effect, ball lightning and its chain effects, "neutral" projectiles than enemies can also utilize, infinite "energy"
• Hammer - Fires several projectiles at once, clip doesn't reload until all shots are emptied out
• Twins - Reliable firepower. (OG "infinite ammo" turret, OG multi-barreled turret)
• Ricochet - Reliable projectile bouncing effect
• Smoky - Critical hit mechanic
• Striker - Homing projectile effect, projectiles gain more speed the longer they fly. (OG "target lock" mechanism)
• Vulcan - Gyroscopic effect, still fires even after depleting the ammo bar, self-inflicts a status effect
• Thunder - Reliable splash damage (OG turret that utilized splash damage)
• Railgun - Projectiles pierce through tanks
• Magnum - Projectiles affected by gravity, range increased by a charge system, vertical rotation instead of horizontal
• Gauss - Umm, for now, I guess target lock without needing a laser sight...
• Shaft - Immobile sniping mode, damage increases the longer you charge the shot, allows you to see past nearby bushes and plants

[PirateSpider 1,489]

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

How each default turret should be unique:

• Firebird - Afterburn effect
• Freeze - Freezing effect
• Isida - Healing ability
• Tesla - Chain attack effect, ball lightning and its chain effects, "neutral" projectiles than enemies can also utilize, infinite "energy"
• Hammer - Fires several projectiles at once, clip doesn't reload until all shots are emptied out
• Twins - Reliable firepower. (OG "infinite ammo" turret, OG multi-barreled turret)
• Ricochet - Reliable projectile bouncing effect
• Smoky - Critical hit mechanic
• Striker - Homing projectile effect, projectiles gain more speed the longer they fly. (OG "target lock" mechanism)
• Vulcan - Gyroscopic effect, still fires even after depleting the ammo bar, self-inflicts a status effect
• Thunder - Reliable splash damage (OG turret that utilized splash damage)
• Railgun - Projectiles pierce through tanks
• Magnum - Projectiles affected by gravity, range increased by a charge system, vertical rotation instead of horizontal
• Gauss - Umm, for now, I guess target lock without needing a laser sight...
• Shaft - Immobile sniping mode, damage increases the longer you charge the shot, allows you to see past nearby bushes and plants

I got a better idea for gauss. Remove it.