category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[wolverine848 13,097]

I've seen Magnum totally dominate Kungur.  There were two Magnums on  one team who were good players. They knew how to lob a shot on every approach route. I tried all sorts of paths and pacing but I never even got close to a good firing location.

 

As for skylark I do not have any specific magnum stories. You are correct that Magnum is more problematic on some maps than others. But the overall design approach is bad. A turret that can shoot from complete cover should not also have a massive splash radius combined with a massive damage / shot. This combination is never going to work.

 

Well this might be the first time I've ever seen a call to nerf Striker. :) But I will agree with you that splash damage has gotten too strong and too common in the game. 

Skylark CP last night... oh my!

 

Other team had 3 magnums with 3 isidas glued to each of their butts and a mixture of twins/rail/thunder etc.

 

They magnum/isida pairs traveled along that high bridge grabbing the CP and raining fire down on anyone trying to cap the other points.  If you had the nerve to rush that bridge you were obliterated by a double-shot of Magnum double-damage.  We did not last long. Even 3 of us rushing up there at same time all died at once with the 2xDD Splash damage.

 

Was kind of comical in a way... by end I was top on my team with ~ 15 kills and about 27 deaths.  Good times.

Edited October 19, 2017 by wolverine848

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

don't you people think more turrets without LOS like magnum would balance the game? i mean they're certaintly never gonna make magnum non LOS so how about having other non LOS turrets to counter magnum?

[wolverine848 13,097]

don't you people think more turrets without LOS like magnum would balance the game? i mean they're certaintly never gonna make magnum non LOS so how about having other non LOS turrets to counter magnum?

No,.

 

And I don't expect them to change magnum's fundamental characteristics.

 

I just want it tweaked like every other turret was tweaked a while after introduction.  Devs have had time for analysis and feedback.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

No,.

 

And I don't expect them to change magnum's fundamental characteristics.

 

I just want it tweaked like every other turret was tweaked a while after introduction.  Devs have had time for analysis and feedback.

they already nerfed the pressure charge time, they increased the maximum pressure charge time from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. yes, they said it wasn't a nerf but it clearly was

[wolverine848 13,097]

they already nerfed the pressure charge time, they increased the maximum pressure charge time from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. yes, they said it wasn't a nerf but it clearly was

Magnum is mostly a camping weapon, so timing like that is of least importance. It's like dropping bombs from the sky. No way to plan for that unless you hide in tunnels. When is last time anyone ever saw the map Subways?

 

It's the initial hit and what it can do with splash that counts.  Too many people worry about damage per minute, etc.

Even if there's a long pause between shots it's mostly irrelevant.

In CP and CTF games where there's important areas, magnum just ruins the battle. It doesn't even need to hit to cause mass carnage.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

Magnum is mostly a camping weapon, so timing like that is of least importance. It's like dropping bombs from the sky. No way to plan for that unless you hide in tunnels. When is last time anyone ever saw the map Subways?

 

It's the initial hit and what it can do with splash that counts.  Too many people worry about damage per minute, etc.

Even if there's a long pause between shots it's mostly irrelevant.

In CP and CTF games where there's important areas, magnum just ruins the battle. It doesn't even need to hit to cause mass carnage.

you know how hard is it to capture flags or points with it? it's even harder than shaft...

 

you have to literally memorize excatly how much to move and when to turn anywhere in the map because you'd have to drive back to your base all the way backwards!

 

EDIT: yes, we drive backwards all the way with any other turret, what i meant was we have to drive back to base while looking backwards the whole time because magnum doesn't have turret rotation

Edited October 19, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[wolverine848 13,097]

you know how hard is it to capture flags or points with it? it's even harder than shaft...

 

you have to literally memorize excatly how much to move and when to turn anywhere in the map because you'd have to drive back to your base all the way backwards!

 

EDIT: yes, we drive backwards all the way with any other turret, what i meant was we have to drive back to base while looking backwards the whole time because magnum doesn't have turret rotation

What does that have to do with Magnum damage?

 

Just run (driving forward toward your base) like everyone else. 

You should not be worrying about targeting chasers when you have the flag.

That's what mines, RK and your team-mates are for.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

What does that have to do with Magnum damage?

 

Just run (driving forward toward your base) like everyone else.

You should not be worrying about targeting chasers when you have the flag.

That's what mines, RK and your team-mates are for.

sometimes one mine and stupid teammates arent enough. you can easily solo a flag capture with thunder but its probably the hardest with magnum. damage is nothing if you dont get flags you dont win. if you get a stupid enough team youll have to get the flag yourself. and how do you use repair kit if theres someone firing at you? you'd have to be knocking off his aim while you use it. Edited October 19, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[wolverine848 13,097]

sometimes one mine and stupid teammates arent enough. you can easily solo a flag capture with thunder but its probably the hardest with magnum. damage is nothing if you dont get flags you dont win. if you get a stupid enough team youll have to get the flag yourself. and how do you use repair kit if theres someone firing at you? you'd have to be knocking off his aim while you use it.

It's not the magnum that's the issue.  It's the team.  If you are on a crappy team it won't matter what equipment you use.

 

Your best bet in that case is to exit and look for a battle with a better team. Why waste your time?

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

It's not the magnum that's the issue. It's the team. If you are on a crappy team it won't matter what equipment you use.

 

Your best bet in that case is to exit and look for a battle with a better team. Why waste your time?

sometimes its not that theyre crappy its just tgey all chose to defend so youre forced to attack alone. of course if my team can neither attack nor defend then i dont even bother trying to steal the flag. Edited October 19, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[SprayGround 2,851]

It's not the magnum that's the issue.  It's the team.  If you are on a crappy team it won't matter what equipment you use.

 

Your best bet in that case is to exit and look for a battle with a better team. Why waste your time?

I always do that. :ph34r:  But I know some people who gets mad on enemy team and try to do something and win even if team is bad, I don't have patience to do that if my team does nothing, I just leave and look for new game lol.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

I always do that. :ph34r: But I know some people who gets mad on enemy team and try to do something and win even if team is bad, I don't have patience to do that if my team does nothing, I just leave and look for new game lol.

depends on my mood, sometimes i just leave, but there have been times where the enemy takes the last flag to win and dont capture it until everyone leaves...all my teammates leave but i wait 7 hours till server restart. clan mates come support me in my last stand some stay 30 minutes some stay with me all the way till the end.

Edited October 19, 2017 by GuidoFawkes

[wolverine848 13,097]

depends on my mood, sometimes i just leave, but there have been times where the enemy takes the last flag to win and dont capture it until everyone leaves...all my teammates leave but i wait 7 hours till server restart. clan mates come support me in my last stand some stay 30 minutes some stay with me all the way till the end.

You seem to want to keep Magnum as OP so you can cap flags solo when your team is not helping.

 

That's not a good reason to keep it imbalanced.

[GuidoFawkes 2,361]

You seem to want to keep Magnum as OP so you can cap flags solo when your team is not helping.

 

That's not a good reason to keep it imbalanced.

... i said i find it very hard to do so with magnum, i think its the hardest turret to capture a flag with

[wolverine848 13,097]

... i said i find it very hard to do so with magnum, i think its the hardest turret to capture a flag with

Well then you are using it wrong.  It's an indirect fire weapon that can damage targets from across the map while hidden.

Exposing yourself to cap a flag is using it poorly - you are voluntarily nullifying it's greatest strengths.

 

Plan on capping flags?  Pick a different combo.

 

You claim Magnum is not OP and go on to say if it is nerfed you won't be able to cap flags.  You don't see issues with this line of reasoning?

[D.A.R.K.N.E.S.S 432]

Well then you are using it wrong. It's an indirect fire weapon that can damage targets from across the map while hidden.

Exposing yourself to cap a flag is using it poorly - you are voluntarily nullifying it's greatest strengths.

 

Plan on capping flags? Pick a different combo.

 

You claim Magnum is not OP and go on to say if it is nerfed you won't be able to cap flags. You don't see issues with this line of reasoning?

Guido is an avid magnum fan and loves the fact that he can demolish tankers with ease in its current state.

As a result, he comes up with very obscure and mostly irrelevant scenarios where magnum is bad, to try and argue his point that it shouldnt be nerfed e.g. it is bad at capping flags, its hard to get 100 kills with it in a 15minute DM.

 

Most of these scenarios are situations where hes just using mag for the wrong reasons, like you explained, but as I found out in the magnum discussion topic, Guido has a tendency to repeat his argument over and over, regardless of any counterarguments made by other forumers. Its almost as if hes trying to convince himself hes right by repeating what he thinks.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

The game balance is heavily skewed in favour of magnum, shaft and isida. The latter is really annoying because there's nothing I can do against an M4 isida on double damage. It can drain all of my HP in a split second and it's the favourite of clan takeovers.

 

Shaft is too OP because it can one shot an M4 Viking, Hunter or dictator.

 

Magnum... yeah that gets on my nerves too depending on the map although it's damage isn't as severe as shaft or isida. The tanker "FlipFlopper" is super annoying.

[omarhero1 401]

The game balance is heavily skewed in favour of magnum, shaft and isida. The latter is really annoying because there's nothing I can do against an M4 isida on double damage. It can drain all of my HP in a split second and it's the favourite of clan takeovers.

 

Shaft is too OP because it can one shot an M4 Viking, Hunter or dictator.

 

Magnum... yeah that gets on my nerves too depending on the map although it's damage isn't as severe as shaft or isida. The tanker "FlipFlopper" is super annoying.

Let  me guess, an extremely irritating M4 Viking-Magnum with Prodigi ? 

If so, I do hate him so much  :wacko:

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Let  me guess, an extremely irritating M4 Viking-Magnum with Prodigi ? 

If so, I do hate him so much  :wacko:

Most probably! He's usually wearing liquid metal and ruining RIO games.

[omarhero1 401]

Most probably! He's usually wearing liquid metal and ruining RIO games.

That gotta be him ! i gave up playing Rio thanks to him  <_<

Add me in game and lets wreck him together  :ph34r:

[micah3 61]

I have played Tanki Online since 2012, I've seen the game change and grow. One thing that keeps players playing is new turrets, the introduction of the Hammer and Vulcan turrets was arguably one of the most anticipated updates ever implemented. I even tested the turrets myself in their experimental stage (I still prefer the old aesthetics for Hammer and Vulcan). So the concept of having new turrets is a great thing, but fast forward a year or so and you have a new turret in development, the failure that would be named Striker. Striker, practically the WT auf E100 of Tanki Online, is a turret basically broken in all aspects. It also made other turrets obsolete, because unlike the others, Striker didn't have its own unique feature, it just stole a bunch of features from the others. It has massive splash radius which allows it to hit tanks behind cover that even Thunder, a turret with splash as its specialty, cannot hit. It has the massive damage output of turrets like Railgun and Shaft, but fires several projectiles like Ricochet or twins. So why use Twins, Thunder, Ricochet, Railgun, or Shaft when you can have a rapid-fire sniper with massive damage that does splash damage. I shouldn't have to mention that if all four projectiles collide with the target it can instantly annihilate almost anything. 

 

You'd think Striker would be the absolute worst turret idea possible. But it is now being challenged for that title by the second failure in a row named Magnum. Magnum was put together based on the ideas of many players in the suggestions for turrets forum. I, myself, had suggested a direct fire Howitzer with high damage and splash with the downside of slow moving shells. But while Magnum could of been a great turret with balanced pros and cons, it quickly became a favorite for many for many reasons. It has horribly unbalanced splash radius, it can deal catastrophic damage to tanks nowhere near where the shell impacted. It's splash radius is so broken in fact, that if you are being circled from the sides of from behind, you can simply shoot right in front of you and severely damage tanks that aren't where you're aiming. So that pretty much makes the no horizontal turret traverse not even a con. Basically the Magnum is a Striker but single-fire and with even more unbalance damage and splash damage mechanics, and with little to no 'drawbacks'.

[Ninja 10,468]

Striker didn't have its own unique feature, it just stole a bunch of features from the others. 

Pretty sure no other turrets have auto-tracking or lock-on.

 

Topic Merged.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

The game balance is heavily skewed in favour of magnum, shaft and isida. The latter is really annoying because there's nothing I can do against an M4 isida on double damage. It can drain all of my HP in a split second and it's the favourite of clan takeovers.

 

Shaft is too OP because it can one shot an M4 Viking, Hunter or dictator.

 

Magnum... yeah that gets on my nerves too depending on the map although it's damage isn't as severe as shaft or isida. The tanker "FlipFlopper" is super annoying.

I would disagree here.   Magnum is doubtless a potent turret if it hits you from across the map, but I think that it's effect of you not being able to hit back elevates its position and strength in your mind.  You remember more when you are killed by it, see what I mean?

 

Shaft- not too hard to knock off aim with smoky or rico.  I would prefer the alteration to be the standard, but oh well, you can't have everything.

 

Isida- I agree.  Damage is too high.  Why in the world did they take away the self-healing in favor of increased damage?  It has a niche role and overlapping that with Freeze (which has a useless effect against M4s) was not a good decision.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Pretty sure no other turrets have auto-tracking or lock-on.

 

Topic Merged.

Good luck getting that lock-on with all the targets using Speed Boost.

 

And the single unguided missiles have no auto-aim. On a slight bump?  the missile lands at your feet or sails off into the horizon.

 

I would disagree here.   Magnum is doubtless a potent turret if it hits you from across the map, but I think that it's effect of you not being able to hit back elevates its position and strength in your mind.  You remember more when you are killed by it, see what I mean?

 

Shaft- not too hard to knock off aim with smoky or rico.  I would prefer the alteration to be the standard, but oh well, you can't have everything.

 

Isida- I agree.  Damage is too high.  Why in the world did they take away the self-healing in favor of increased damage?  It has a niche role and overlapping that with Freeze (which has a useless effect against M4s) was not a good decision.

They are not bringing back the self-heal so what do you propose for Isida?

It has short attack duration and can't slow or burn targets.  The high DPS is needed to compensate.

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

They are not bringing back the self-heal so what do you propose for Isida?

It has short attack duration and can't slow or burn targets.  The high DPS is needed to compensate.

Perhaps the ability to "distribute" the damage into an infinite amount of streams at any enemies in close proximity.  Heal 2 players and fight 2 more at the same time.

 

But I don't know. I'm not really proposing anything- just grumbling.  It's okay as it is.