category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[wolverine848 13,097]

the thing is we played in the era where we didnt need to drug, im gonna assume that u have been playing from before the rebalance, but if u look in perspective of the new players, they are at a significant disadvantage. Back in the days everyone also got log in bonuses where u could just log in and earn them, not u gotta play battles and earn the rewards, I'm sure if u try to make a new account, u will notice at the mid ranks about how much more drugs u need to use now than much before, items may cost cheaper, but module update initial costs r a drag, do people buy drugs to hold their own, or save to get modules and stronger equipment.

 

Maybe play on an alternate account and main, note how much crystal worth of drugs you use and how much you earn, f2p's will have to compromise between the 100 supply kits or getting stronger tank items. Even if all 3 missions rewards accumulate to roughly 3k-5k crystals, they could take roughly 2-4 games to complete and even more so for someone who doesn't have drugs.

 

When I came back like 6.5 weeks ago, I joined matchmaking and didn't use any drugs as a test, and it was a pain, loss after a loss unless I was in a group where a friend could carry.

 

 

 

Post a days worth of games completing missions and their rewards, profit level will be low, before it was possible to do many missions without the need for drugging etc, players starting fresh don't have the set of drugs you do, unless they decide to buy so, to just play games well you will need to buy even if its just double damages or repairs, you will be using some to help fair in the current state of matchmaking battles. Unless it's a map like highways where there are drop boxes everywhere, I don't think you can really win without using even 500 crystals worth of supplies (1 non-repair supply a minute of MM). Maybe in CP / ASL Blue drugging isn't as needed but in TDM and CTF, you wont really win without a good set of repairs, mines, and rest which you still gotta get if you are a new player and one that did not partake in the WAR. I've seen in DM's people get roughly 20+ Deaths, assuming they use a repair, at least a dd/da each spawn, that's like 4k crystals, and they hardly earn 600 crys, net deficit still, matchmakings only advatage is to keep your chain running for containers and weekly rewards which still are not suffice for lasting a week of MM games tbh if you play seriously and not holding back.

 

Week 10 gives legends 60 repairs, suffice for 60 deaths or so, like 3-5 MM games-ish? 30 batteries -> 3 MM games and 180 of the other supplies which will last a decent like 18 MM games barely if u stick to 1 supply time a minute disregarding spawns, tbh only the containers are what people play MM for, but worst case scenariors all your missions are stuff like 450 DM xp, 900 CTF score, 900 Assault score, will take a good 4-5 games a day to do, and if we look into the drugs + time spent to complete them, it would be evident that you still need to drug more than you earn, only lucky case scenarios where your missions intertwine is where you could make a profit. I'm still climbing to week 7, so I'm getting hardly much that can even support me for even a week.

 

Playing like 1-2 MM games a day can be slightly beneficial, but if for say like a crazy kill weekend you play, you will be using a tonne load to just get to 2k.

 

Last week I decided to play a lot of ONLY MM games, and i'm pretty sure I used over 2k batteries and a lot of supplies just to earn what, like 110k crystals ( around 2.5k crystals from missions) it's just not a lot, the batteries alone are worth 600k, ofcourse it was my choice to use it, but it helped, all 3 drugs activated up to 3 times a min, that's a drone that does 450 crystals worth of work in a minute (battery = 300 crys), yes i know there are supply cooldowns, so strictly your would be limiting to like 200 crystals a minute excluding repairs, MM is not beneficial for anything other than containers for a chance to get 1M crys, 300k crys, etc, other than that, you never make profit, if you do, you spend more time on it, but time is money where i come from, so you still make a loss. Poly CP 999 min games are still the best imo for profit, or even poly 100 cp games (all these non drugs ofc, 100% of the crystals earnt are profit.

 

 

Wolverine never had the benefit of free-login crystals nor the crystal drops. 

I started after all that but before the re-balance. Got "shafted" on the nerf to smky, Isida and the Viking-Hunter switcheroo.

 

I have an alternate account - it was started this year and is now at Major. 

No money spent, and I'd say it does better than my Legend account.

Certainly not running short on supplies, and I'd say >50% of the time I'm top 3 on my team, if not the battle.

[Akame 4,578]

Wolverine never had the benefit of free-login crystals nor the crystal drops. 

I started after all that but before the re-balance. Got "shafted" on the nerf to smky, Isida and the Viking-Hunter switcheroo.

 

I have an alternate account - it was started this year and is now at Major. 

No money spent, and I'd say it does better than my Legend account.

Certainly not running short on supplies, and I'd say >50% of the time I'm top 3 on my team, if not the battle.

An alt account already has the advantage of you knowing which sets of combo's work for you, unlike the many new players, but do please play some games, not how many drugs you use an MM game, do you see excessive buyers, maxed combo's ultra druggers, any drone users?

 

Do a profit/deficit count with the drugs.

 

 

Eh, nvm, mid ranks have a lot of mults:

 

Blue team asking for golds, all weak combo's, i used no drugs, earnt 6 drugs, now the top 2 drugged and i'm sure they didnt make any profit, but it's clear, u gotta have druggers, or drug to win.

 

 

I did actually surprisingly complete 1 mission

 

 

 

Tried a deathmatch, not many crazy druggers, I used 0 drugs again, earn 4 basic supplies by dreading and getting a few kill steals and 3 overdrives in total, I did see a driver drone user, now midranks did not get any batteries, so people still payin to win.

 

 

Play 3 dreading games of getting hard attacked by druggers and not drugging to make earn like 3k-4k supply worth of drugs (including missions, or play 1 game with drugs and make an absolute deficit. I'd rather not have 3 dreading games which I know I can perform better but handicapping myself.

 

PS. this rico/dictator kit i bought ages ago from the shop when sandstone legacy module existed, still money ftw after the low-mid ranks, was lucky that i had that legacy to get the decentish M1 modules at decent micros

Edited July 17, 2018 by Akame

[wolverine848 13,097]

An alt account already has the advantage of you knowing which sets of combo's work for you, unlike the many new players, but do please play some games, not how many drugs you use an MM game, do you see excessive buyers, maxed combo's ultra druggers, any drone users?

 

Do a profit/deficit count with the drugs.

 

 

Eh, nvm, mid ranks have a lot of mults:

 

 

Blue team asking for golds, all weak combo's, i used no drugs, earnt 6 drugs, now the top 2 drugged and i'm sure they didnt make any profit, but it's clear, u gotta have druggers, or drug to win.

 

 

I did actually surprisingly complete 1 mission

 

 

 

Tried a deathmatch, not many crazy druggers, I used 0 drugs again, earn 4 basic supplies by dreading and getting a few kill steals and 3 overdrives in total, I did see a driver drone user, now midranks did not get any batteries, so people still payin to win.

 

 

Play 3 dreading games of getting hard attacked by druggers and not drugging to make earn like 3k-4k supply worth of drugs (including missions, or play 1 game with drugs and make an absolute deficit. I'd rather not have 3 dreading games which I know I can perform better but handicapping myself.

 

PS. this rico/dictator kit i bought ages ago from the shop when sandstone legacy module existed, still money ftw after the low-mid ranks, was lucky that i had that legacy to get the decentish M1 modules at decent micros

Sure I have benefit of having played before.  But so do many of the players at my level there - many, many alt accounts.

By rank of major the learning curve is dropping.

 

Plus - I went in completely different direction and developed to combos barely used on my main account.  Freeze and Vulcan.

Bought freeze before the buff so I lucked out there...

[Potdindy 866]

Plus - I went in completely different direction and developed to combos barely used on my main account.  Freeze and Vulcan.

Bought freeze before the buff so I lucked out there...

Unrelated question: How have you liked Vulcan? People say it is weak, but every time I run into it I get strafed badly

[LittleWillie 3,199]

precisely why I said mostly impossible, but the fact still stands about players making deficits from battles, just from simple deduction 3k crys of battery consumption in 1 regular battle, now how many make this much in games, of course for a buyer this doesn't matter, but for a non-buyer, they are still severely disadvantaged, on top of that is drug consumption, even with premium players don't really make any profit in such matchmaking the majority of time.

 

tbh i think the game will finally get better for some f2p when hull abilities come out, since they will hopefully use their overdrives wisely and no only for gold

I saw this comment posted before a rather long discussion started.  I haven't read that discussion yet. Since it is so long I will just make this reply first.

 

IMO your accounting system is the issue here. Players are not compelled to "turn a profit". Players are not under pressure to earn more than the

Garage value of the Supplies they used. This is because Supplies earned from missions have a cost of zero.

 

This is how I look at my mission income. My income is measured in Crystals and nothing else.  Missions pay me direct Crystals in the form of ... well ... Crystals.  They pay me indirect Crystals in the form of Supplies. It is my job to convert these Supplies into Crystals through the process if using them to increase my Battle Fund payouts.

 

THis is why I decided I have to get into Drones. If I am paid in Batteries I have to find a way to use them.  Here I cannot compete directly with the buyer. So the goal is to have enough Drone capability to help when I am up against these deep-pocket foes.

 

----------------------

 

PL. skimmed the convo.

 

Akame said he re-started a month or two ago so my guess is he is unaware of how drastically the mission rewards have changed. First the amounts were tripled. Then that tripling was dialed baxk to about 2.2x but Containers were added.  With Containers income is now greater than the tripling.

 

For lower ranks Containers bring a massive benefit. Low rank income compared to the past might be ten times greater! 

 

Yes, if you want to play one account long enough to earn 3l-4k per day you might not get enough from missions to do that every day.  But IMO there's nothing wrong with that. TO gives players enough free stuff to play hours each day. If players want to play 5-6 or more hours / day it is only fair they pay into teh system.

Edited July 17, 2018 by LittleWillie

[wolverine848 13,097]

Unrelated question: How have you liked Vulcan? People say it is weak, but every time I run into it I get strafed badly

I like it a lot - very fun to play.  Excellent at mid-to-long range.  The 50% "weak" damage means it is useful full length of even the larger maps.

I use it on Hunter currently.  Once into M3 stages I will get a mammoth and try that out.

 

Weakness of course is up close - turret tracking for close-in enemies not great. So hampered somewhat on maps with lots of cover like Industrial Zone.

[Akame 4,578]

Unrelated question: How have you liked Vulcan? People say it is weak, but every time I run into it I get strafed badly

Vulcan was one of the turrets that the new 'improved' repair favoured, If you can negate peoples repairs and keep a distance and avoid overheating it will do a lot of annoying damage provided that the map has some open long range and midrange zones so you can shoot in the distance, I.E in Kungur from the Bridge, in team games, having an isida to support you would also pair well

[Akame 4,578]

Eh, these missions on my main: 

 

I could choose to dread a few battles and not drug to gain these '3K worth' of rewards, Or I could play 1-2 battles and I'm pretty sure my drug consumption would be higher than what I make out of it. I get that they are free and that I can just do 1 mission to keep my chain progressing, but that's not my style, it still stands that drugless pro battles help us earn a shed load of more crystals and save a lot of supplies and whatnot for that amount of exp.

 

 

 

Hmm, 10 Batteries used, 13 repair kits, 8 DA, 10 DD, 5 Nitros, 28 Mines, earnt what exactly, 672 crys?!?!? And this:

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Akame

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Eh, these missions on my main: 

 

I could choose to dread a few battles and not drug to gain these '3K worth' of rewards, Or I could play 1-2 battles and I'm pretty sure my drug consumption would be higher than what I make out of it. I get that they are free and that I can just do 1 mission to keep my chain progressing, but that's not my style, it still stands that drugless pro battles help us earn a shed load of more crystals and save a lot of supplies and whatnot for that amount of exp.

 

 

[shrug]

 

It's your loss.

 

I do missions and have thousands and thousands of supplies more than what I use. But if you want to disbelieve the experience of hundreds of players no one can stop you.

Edited July 18, 2018 by LittleWillie

[Ricosck 19]

Dam devs never play the game or they'd know isida is too strong, and freeze is much too dam strong!

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Dam devs never play the game or they'd know isida is too strong, and freeze is much too dam strong!

They may play or not

But they have people caleed tester's they test the item's out 

The Dev's are not some kid's with their console

[enri_chill 265]

They may play or not

But they have people caleed tester's they test the item's out 

The Dev's are not some kid's with their console

Just noticed you ranked up! Congrats!

[gokuMI6 1,290]

Just noticed you ranked up! Congrats!

Thx , gota hit Brig fast so can join event's

[g123424 3]

from one to the other Changes  balance you do shaft Weaker and weaker Now I shot 3 shots and each one did damage of 56 - 62 . I thought maybe later you do something good but while you strengthen every ater turrets like lest one ( 1 = Thunder will have higher fire rate , the distance and effectiveness of splash damage , 2 = Shaft will be reloading a bit faster when firing without Sniper mode, but the effect of these shots (the reach and reduction in damage) will be reduced) 

 

  

this sucks, ****  this game I stop playing this ****

[wolverine848 13,097]

from one to the other Changes  balance you do shaft Weaker and weaker Now I shot 3 shots and each one did damage of 56 - 62 . I thought maybe later you do something good but while you strengthen every ater turrets like lest one ( 1 = Thunder will have higher fire rate , the distance and effectiveness of splash damage , 2 = Shaft will be reloading a bit faster when firing without Sniper mode, but the effect of these shots (the reach and reduction in damage) will be reduced) 

 

  

this sucks, ****  this game I stop playing this ****

 

They did not touch scope damage - your primary attack.

 

You should not be relying on arcade shot for long distance - it is for close-up battles - like a pistol.

[C.O.N.Q.U.E.R.O.R 3,845]

from one to the other Changes  balance you do shaft Weaker and weaker Now I shot 3 shots and each one did damage of 56 - 62 . I thought maybe later you do something good but while you strengthen every ater turrets like lest one ( 1 = Thunder will have higher fire rate , the distance and effectiveness of splash damage , 2 = Shaft will be reloading a bit faster when firing without Sniper mode, but the effect of these shots (the reach and reduction in damage) will be reduced) 

 

  

this sucks, ****  this game I stop playing this ****

 

As a Shaft main myself, Shaft is still perfectly viable and still quite OP in my opinion. The arcade shots are not meant to be used that often.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

As a Shaft main myself, Shaft is still perfectly viable and still quite OP in my opinion. The arcade shots are not meant to be used that often.

Yes' shaft should be a shaft it should snipe , not go all in there are other turrets to play that

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Yes' shaft should be a shaft it should snipe , not go all in there are other turrets to play that

I think the nerf was intended so that people wouldn't spam the arcade shots after delivering full charged shot until the target dies.

[gokuMI6 1,290]

I think the nerf was intended so that people wouldn't spam the arcade shots after delivering full charged shot until the target dies.

Oh i haven't though about that , yes that works i think 

So more DD will be bought , The dev's have nice brain's  :lol:

[LittleWillie 3,199]

Here's a thought that just occurred to me.

 

Twins might actually be the single most powerful turret in the game. If not THE MOST all can agree it is a powerful turret.. But it soes not generate nearly as much animus as Magnum has for over a year and as much as Freeze does today.

 

There's a reason for that, I suggest. The reason is that even though Twins is powerful you can fight back. It is hard to shoot back under the rapid impact but you can do it. 

 

The main reason Magnum and now Freeze is so hated is becase the primary feature of both turrets is: You Cannot Fight Back.

 

Magnum will blast you from behind a wall. He'll get 4 shots at you before you can even draw a bead on  him.

 

Freeze will hit you from behind an  immobilize you . You just sit there and watch yourself die.  At least nowthanks to an truly flabbergasting over-buff you don't have long to wait to die.

 

In both cases you take huge damage with no ability to even wound the attacker.  his is why these turrest are HATED.

 

I've been down this road before in other MMORPGs. The #1 thing players will not stand for is being rendered unable to fight back. This is not just a TO Thing. This is a universal rejection across all gaming genre.

 

TO better think hard and FAST about un-doing the Freeze disaster. It is too late to use teh word "fast" about Magnum but nerf that turd too.

Edited July 30, 2018 by LittleWillie

[TakeAShower 300]

[splitterpoint 10,986]

What is this.. 1 second after joining I get spawn killed and then the match ends.

You tell me if there were more CP battles to choose from when the average waiting time was under 40 seconds.

 

[wolverine848 13,097]

What is this.. 1 second after joining I get spawn killed and then the match ends.

You tell me if there were more CP battles to choose from when the average waiting time was under 40 seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

I like how no one on your team got any stars... :o

Edited July 30, 2018 by wolverine848

[splitterpoint 10,986]

I like how no one on your team got any stars... :o

Yeah I saw it too, perhaps a certain threshold should be met? Or that both teams are being compared in the calculation?

Edited August 1, 2018 by splitterpoint

[caiosilvac 567]

Time to change this