category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[natrolite 1,049]

Nerf Hunter's Overdrive

 

With the release of overdrives came heaps of new opportunities for different combat styles. Although, all these overdrives have at least some method of combating their effect One particular hull has received an especially annoying ability: Hunter.

 

For the love of all that is good and holy, nerf Hunter's ability! Come on, at least someone in the higher-ups has noticed the spike of Hunter usage with the release of Overdrives onward, right?

 

Now, let's have a quick run-through of all the other Overdrives and how to combat them at the very basic level:

 

1. Wasp OD: It has a timer, if you're attentive enough to notice it quickly you can escape from the blast radius.
2. Hornet OD: For the most part, this OD is assistive, despite it allowing the user to discard whichever protection module and/or armor they have equipped. It could be lethal if used correctly (could being the keyword there).
3. Viking OD: This one is fairly destructive as well (this is coming from a Viking user) though it does have its flaws. Such as if you're using a turret that inflicts self-damage, this OD is as lethal in close combat to yourself as it is to your enemies. Also, this OD is somewhat escapable, if there is a wall or an obstacle nearby, you could get away with ease.
4. Dictator OD: This is yet another assistive OD. It has no offensive qualities other than the freezing effect it gives nearby enemies at the time of activation, which isn't really that bad.
5. Titan OD: Supportive OD. Grants no damage boost nor does it harm enemies. It does render the user and their teammates practically immortal while inside its area of effect tho.
6. Mammoth OD: You can easily outrun this.
7. Hunter OD: Pray for the sweet relief of a disconnection than having to face the horror of this OD.

It's unpredictable, undodge-able, unescapable and downright frustrating. Not only does it render your tank immobile, strips you away from all your supplies and for the most part, suppresses your OD if you've activated it; it also restarts the charging time of your supplies, has a decent range of effect, hits multiple targets at once AND it forces you to drop whatever you're carrying, be it a flag or a ball.

 

Now, now. I'm not saying all of this 'cause I'm being salty (although I guess that's partly the reason), but this OD is genuinely unbalanced. Just one Hunter can shutdown an onslaught of a 4-tank convoy, all fully supplied and fully Micro-upgraded with just one press of a button. And this has happened.

 

In the past, Isida trains were an unstoppable force that can wreak havoc in any game, up until the developers realized this and nerfed Isida. And in doing so they somewhat eliminated Isida trains in a relatively short time. I'm not saying let's get rid of this particular OD, no. It's a good addition to the game, same as all other ODs. It even made me consider actually switching my main hull to Hunter. Although, there's a good OD, then there's Hunter's OD. It's not just good, it's downright unfair. It completely strips away the fun and excitement of the game and gives you a damned sense of helplessness that completely ruins whatever good mood you're having.

 

Though I'm only suggesting nerfing this ability, I'm not suggesting a method of doing so. As I'm not presumptuous  enough to know what effect(s) it may have on other OD, Hunter itself, or the game's balance for that matter.

 

TL;DR: Hunter's Overdrive is ridiculously overpowered. I'm suggesting nerfing it down a little. I am not suggesting removing it. As I'm well aware that's against the rules of this section.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Hate

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

With the release of overdrives came heaps of new opportunities for different combat styles. Although, all these overdrives have at least some method of combating their effect One particular hull has received an especially annoying ability: Hunter.

 

For the love of all that is good and holy, nerf Hunter's ability! Come on, at least someone in the higher-ups has noticed the spike of Hunter usage with the release of Overdrives onward, right?

 

Now, let's have a quick run-through of all the other Overdrives and how to combat them at the very basic level:

 

1. Wasp OD: It has a timer, if you're attentive enough to notice it quickly you can escape from the blast radius.
2. Hornet OD: For the most part, this OD is assistive, despite it allowing the user to discard whichever protection module and/or armor they have equipped. It could be lethal if used correctly (could being the keyword there).
3. Viking OD: This one is fairly destructive as well (this is coming from a Viking user) though it does have its flaws. Such as if you're using a turret that inflicts self-damage, this OD is as lethal in close combat to yourself as it is to your enemies. Also, this OD is somewhat escapable, if there is a wall or an obstacle nearby, you could get away with ease.
4. Dictator OD: This is yet another assistive OD. It has no offensive qualities other than the freezing effect it gives nearby enemies at the time of activation, which isn't really that bad.
5. Titan OD: Supportive OD. Grants no damage boost nor does it harm enemies. It does render the user and their teammates practically immortal while inside its area of effect tho.
6. Mammoth OD: You can easily outrun this.
7. Hunter OD: Pray for the sweet relief of a disconnection than having to face the horror of this OD.

It's unpredictable, undodge-able, unescapable and downright frustrating. Not only does it render your tank immobile, strips you away from all your supplies and for the most part, suppresses your OD if you've activated it; it also restarts the charging time of your supplies, has a decent range of effect, hits multiple targets at once AND it forces you to drop whatever you're carrying, be it a flag or a ball.

 

Now, now. I'm not saying all of this 'cause I'm being salty (although I guess that's partly the reason), but this OD is genuinely unbalanced. Just one Hunter can shutdown an onslaught of a 4-tank convoy, all fully supplied and fully Micro-upgraded with just one press of a button. And this has happened.

 

In the past, Isida trains were an unstoppable force that can wreak havoc in any game, up until the developers realized this and nerfed Isida. And in doing so they somewhat eliminated Isida trains in a relatively short time. I'm not saying let's get rid of this particular OD, no. It's a good addition to the game, same as all other ODs. It even made me consider actually switching my main hull to Hunter. Although, there's a good OD, then there's Hunter's OD. It's not just good, it's downright unfair. It completely strips away the fun and excitement of the game and gives you a damned sense of helplessness that completely ruins whatever good mood you're having.

 

Though I'm only suggesting nerfing this ability, I'm not suggesting a method of doing so. As I'm not presumptuous  enough to know what effect(s) it may have on other OD, Hunter itself, or the game's balance for that matter.

 

TL;DR: Hunter's Overdrive is ridiculously overpowered. I'm suggesting nerfing it down a little. I am not suggesting removing it. As I'm well aware that's against the rules of this section.

 

 

I love how all ODs except Hunter have weaknesses.   Titan with ability to camp in enemy base and spawn-kill is not OP?

And you call Hornet OD assistive?   It Is entirely Offensive - a Rail with DD active can one-shot most hulls on the battle-field.  How you describe that as "assistive" is beyond words.  The only time it is not lethal is in the hands of noobs.

 

Hunter...

- short range - shorter than all but the very close range turrets like freeze, fire and Isida.  Most turrets can do significant dmg or kill hunter before it can activate

- does not damage enemies in any way like wasp or Mammoth

- does not re-set ODs - a Viking that survives the 3 second stun can activate OD and kill Hunter in 1 second

- does not affect all ODs - at very least does not turn off Viking OD even though it might have stunned it  :o

- effect is blocked by obstacles and elevations in terrain.  A tank 5m away but behind a small wall is not affected.

- Has a 1 second delay that is long enough for turrets like Hammer Duplet or Rail to one-shot the Hunter before EMP goes off - even after they have pressed shift.

- 3 seconds is not that long - at best the Hunter might be able to kill 1 target if correct turret equipped.  Viking can kill many enemies in the 7 seconds it has. Have you seen what Magnum or Thunder can do to grouped enemies with the rapid-fire splash?

 

Hunter's OD has so many weaknesses, that to classify it as "unfair" boggles the mind.  If you are constantly sucumming to it's effects maybe it's time for you to adjust your game strategies.

[XxStriker 519]

I've often been zapped 2-3 times in a row without dying between them... And many, many times I would just counter with either titan or dictator OD right back at them, and kill them anyway.

 

But hornet or viking od? Those are basically guaranteed death because the only people with the bravery of using the flimsy hornets are railguns, so they get guaranteed oneshots and viking just grants ridiculous damage to the most ranged guns.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Lots of titan overdrives around one point = game ruiner.

[Pyre 3,485]

If anything, it needs a buff. I actually tried to use it the other day on a Smoky with Viking OD activated- the delay is so long that he killed me before my OD worked. Hunters OD can barely do its job.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hunters OD is probably the balanced OD in the game. However it should deactivate all ODs from any hull. Otherwise, naming that as one of its abilities is just downright silly.

[Legacy 754]

Hunter's OD isn't that powerful it doesn't stand a chance against Viking's overdrive + it can't remove overdrives if either Viking or Hornet two of the deadliest overdrives in the game that can hunt the hunter down after the 2 seconds stun

[natrolite 1,049]

 

 

I love how all ODs except Hunter have weaknesses.   Titan with ability to camp in enemy base and spawn-kill is not OP?

And you call Hornet OD assistive?   It Is entirely Offensive - a Rail with DD active can one-shot most hulls on the battle-field.  How you describe that as "assistive" is beyond words.  The only time it is not lethal is in the hands of noobs.

 

Hunter...

- short range - shorter than all but the very close range turrets like freeze, fire and Isida.  Most turrets can do significant dmg or kill hunter before it can activate

- does not damage enemies in any way like wasp or Mammoth

- does not re-set ODs - a Viking that survives the 3 second stun can activate OD and kill Hunter in 1 second

- does not affect all ODs - at very least does not turn off Viking OD even though it might have stunned it  :o

- effect is blocked by obstacles and elevations in terrain.  A tank 5m away but behind a small wall is not affected.

- Has a 1 second delay that is long enough for turrets like Hammer Duplet or Rail to one-shot the Hunter before EMP goes off - even after they have pressed shift.

- 3 seconds is not that long - at best the Hunter might be able to kill 1 target if correct turret equipped.  Viking can kill many enemies in the 7 seconds it has. Have you seen what Magnum or Thunder can do to grouped enemies with the rapid-fire splash?

 

Hunter's OD has so many weaknesses, that to classify it as "unfair" boggles the mind.  If you are constantly sucumming to it's effects maybe it's time for you to adjust your game strategies.

 

 

The main difference between every OD and Hunter's is that you can do something to counter them. I'm not denying the fact that Titan's OD is amazing, yet, Hunter can still disable the protective field generator of an enemy Titan. As for Hornet, pay close attention to what I said. I said "for the most part, this OD is assistive" I did not disregard this OD's offensive capabilities, I merely stated that it's main objective is assistive. Yes, this is mainly an assistive OD, it's called "Scout Radar" for Christ's sake. Also, when they first previewed this OD in the v-log, they only mentioned that it will reveal the enemy's location(s) around the map. They did not mention it being able to discard the enemy's protection modules/armor.

 

Your argument is mainly focused on if the activation of this OD is successful or not. That is not what I'm discussing in this topic.

Failure or success in activating any OD, not just Hunter's, is solely up to the player's assessment and personal judgement. I'm talking about what happens when this OD is activated, not if it's activation is meriting or not.

 

Many times have I found myself in the middle of the enemy's base after what I was sure was a successful capture of a flag, and despite being backed up by my teammates, it turned into a shooting gallery with me and my team as the helpless targets.

 

I'm more than willing to argue with you point-by-point and drag this out for days on end. However, with all due respect, you seemed to have somehow missed the point of this topic.

 

As for the other comments, again, failure or success when activating this OD is not the intended matter of discussion in this topic. Hunter's OD and it's absurd abilities is however.

Edited August 7, 2019 by classic-style-hiphop

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

The main difference between every OD and Hunter's is that you can do something to counter them. I'm not denying the fact that Titan's OD is amazing, yet, Hunter can still disable the protective field generator of an enemy Titan. As for Hornet, pay close attention to what I said. I said "for the most part, this OD is assistive" I did not disregard this OD's offensive capabilities, I merely stated that it's main objective is assistive. Yes, this is mainly an assistive OD, it's called "Scout Radar" for Christ's sake. Also, when they first previewed this OD in the v-log, they only mentioned that it will reveal the enemy's location(s) around the map. They did not mention it being able to discard the enemy's protection modules/armor.

 

Your argument is mainly focused on if the activation of this OD is successful or not. That is not what I'm discussing in this topic.

Failure or success in activating any OD, not just Hunter's, is solely up to the player's assessment and personal judgement. I'm talking about what happens when this OD is activated, not if it's activation is meriting or not.

 

Many times have I found myself in the middle of the enemy's base after what I was sure was a successful capture of a flag, and despite being backed up by my teammates, it turned into a shooting gallery with me and my team as the helpless targets.

 

 

 

I'm more than willing to argue with you point-by-point and drag this out for days on end. However, with all due respect, you seemed to have somehow missed the point of this topic.

 

As for the other comments, again, failure or success when activating this OD is not the intended matter of discussion in this topic. Hunter's OD and it's absurd abilities is however.

Of course the ability of activating something successfully has to be considered.  To disregard that is just foolish.   A Hornet can activate under cover, come out and then use it.  Same with Viking. Hunter has no such luxury. It has to activate with DLOS, short distance AND a delay.

 

The "scout radar" part of Hornet OD is a minor part of the OD.  The important part is the offensive part - you know - the part where it can attack enemies and kill them with little resistance.  It would be like saying freezing is major part of Dictator OD - when it is very obviously a minor part.

 

I get the point of the topic - you have a bias against the OD because you don't seem able to avoid it's effects.  Try a different strategy to combat Hunters - they are not nearly as omnipotent as you pretend they are.

Edited August 7, 2019 by wolverine848

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

You're seeing an upsurge in the number of Hunters? Most of my battles are taking place in Norman conquests. 

 

 

One of Hunter's Overdrive's main limitations is that its range is short. 

 

I haven't had too many problems with being killed before it shocks them but it has happened, which takes away 40% of my Overdrive charge. 

 

The other Overdrives are diseases and Hunter's Overdrive is the cure. There are 6 other hulls besides Hunter. Those are 6 different Overdrives with 5 different charging rates and 3 different amounts of score earned for actions in battles. Since it's the cure, it makes sense that it recharges quickly. The problem? The recharge time of each Overdrive. See, Hunter's Overdrive charge time is fast, much faster than Titan's or Viking's Overdrive. So effectively, you'd have your Overdrive faster than they would, but here's the catch, how are you going to use your Hunter's Overdrive? 

 

Will you wait until they have their Overdrive so that you can cancel it? Will you use it for offensive purposes to capture a flag for your team? Will you make it your duty to prioritise countering Overdrives and not just the enemy huls and their supplies? A lot falls on the Hunter's shoulders and if it wants its team to win, it must decide where to use its Overdrive. Using your Overdrive too early might mean defeat for your team as you can use it on a Wasp's bomb, and then an enemy Titan plops down their dome at the other side of your base and it's pooling with enemies. 

 

There are counters to Hunter's Overdrive. Its main counter, in terms of effects, is Dictator's Overdrive. If used immediately after being stunned, it will give you supplies which, by the end of them, would be available to use as the cooldown has passed. 

You have ranged counters such as Hornet and Viking's Overdrive. They can kill you before it zaps them as they weaken you as you approach them. 

 

More than one of any hull could pose a problem as that's more of that specific Overdrive. I've seen teams with many Hunters trample other teams and I've seen the reverse. Hull diversity is important.

 

So many topics about nerfing Hunter's Overdrive should warrant some investigation but I think it's balanced right now. 

 

It's unpredictable, undodge-able, unescapable and downright frustrating. Not only does it render your tank immobile, strips you away from all your supplies and for the most part, suppresses your OD if you've activated it; it also restarts the charging time of your supplies, has a decent range of effect, hits multiple targets at once AND it forces you to drop whatever you're carrying, be it a flag or a ball.

All Overdrives are unpredictable. 

 

See, you listed all of its effects, but some of those effects are situational. Like the flag or the ball, that can only happen in CTF, ASL and RGB battles - 3 of 7 modes. It suppressing its enemies Overdrives is also situation as not every enemy i zap has their Overdrive active. Sometimes, it's taking down that tank as fast as possible is the priority. 

Hitting multiple targets at once depends on the terrain and obstacles. There could be a group of 5 tanks but I could only stun 2 or 3 because of obstacles and if I go a different route, they'd see me and act accordingly. So it is dodgeable. You can't escape it because you're stunned for those 3 seconds, but you can survive if you have the protection module against the Hunter's turret. The Hunter may not have double damage activated. 

 

I believe it's frustrating because MM is fast-paced and suddenly slowing to a halt for 3 seconds and then having to accelerate without speed boost would piss people off.

 

Now, now. I'm not saying all of this 'cause I'm being salty (although I guess that's partly the reason), but this OD is genuinely unbalanced. Just one Hunter can shutdown an onslaught of a 4-tank convoy, all fully supplied and fully Micro-upgraded with just one press of a button. And this has happened.

Hornets are able to shut down pushes. Bypassing double armour is a huge plus with Hornet's Overdrive, especially with Magnum, Railgun, Thunder and Gauss. 

 

Vikings are able to as well, from a distance too. Hunter isn't guaranteed success as it only stuns the enemies. It has to then damage them and kill them, and that can be hard when the enemies are spaced out, as well as having protection modules against its turret. 

 

The main difference between every OD and Hunter's is that you can do something to counter them. I'm not denying the fact that Titan's OD is amazing, yet, Hunter can still disable the protective field generator of an enemy Titan.

Dictator's Overdrive is a direct counter. 

 

As for Hornet, pay close attention to what I said. I said "for the most part, this OD is assistive" I did not disregard this OD's offensive capabilities, I merely stated that it's main objective is assistive. Yes, this is mainly an assistive OD, it's called "Scout Radar" for Christ's sake. Also, when they first previewed this OD in the v-log, they only mentioned that it will reveal the enemy's location(s) around the map. They did not mention it being able to discard the enemy's protection modules/armor.

As @Maf had said in this topic, "There was an issue with Hammer too, which had to be nerfed because players were using it in a different way than expected". 

 

They were using it in a different way that they expected. Hornet's ability to remove double armour and protection modules outweigh the ability to see where enemies are. The HP bars are significant. Kills are rewarded fruitfully in MM and Hornet's Overdrive, especially in the higher ranks where there are OP alterations, can make many kills with it. I suggested to someone on the forum that an alternative way you can use Hornet's Overdrive is for flanking. See where the enemies are and choose a route where the enemies may least likely notice you. But I mostly use it as offensive. Why? Because kills give me stars in challenges and and being able to one-shot people gives your team an advantage, even if it's only for 20 seconds. It recharges quickly as well, and you also get charge during the duration of the Overdrive. It's most beneficial when using it as an offensive tool, rather than assistive. 

 

If you combine both, you're giving your team the location and HP bars of the enemies while you get to one-shot them or kill them very quickly. So it's safe to say that Hornet's Overdrive is mainly offensive, as that's where it benefits from the most; and because it benefits there the most, most if not all players would use it like that because Challenges exist and gettin' them stars matters. 

[natrolite 1,049]

So what I got from the thesis above, Hunter's a necessary evil and I was being sassy after some humiliating defeats :P

 

Alright, I get that an OD that, like Hunter's OD, has a neutralizing effect is necessary. I suppose the view is more evened out up in the higher ranks. I honestly thought a lot of players would agree with me, yet to my surprise everyone seemed to be satisfied with the status quo.

 

There are things that I still don't understand, like how forcing us to drop our flags/balls is necessary to the game balance, but I suppose my low-ranked mentality convinced me of the arbitrary unruly force that I've come to know as "Hunter's OD".

 

Anyhow, I believe this discussion has come to an end. In earnest, I'm dissatisfied, yet swayed. I'm not exactly familiar what happens now, this topic serves no further reason for me personally. If you still have a comment feel free to share your thoughts although I'm fairly certain moderators have enough justification to shut this topic down.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Lots of titan overdrives around one point = game ruiner.

Hornet-Striker/Gauss is the cure! :ph34r:

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

So what I got from the thesis above, Hunter's a necessary evil and I was being sassy after some humiliating defeats :P

 

Alright, I get that an OD that, like Hunter's OD, has a neutralizing effect is necessary. I suppose the view is more evened out up in the higher ranks. I honestly thought a lot of players would agree with me, yet to my surprise everyone seemed to be satisfied with the status quo.

 

There are things that I still don't understand, like how forcing us to drop our flags/balls is necessary to the game balance, but I suppose my low-ranked mentality convinced me of the arbitrary unruly force that I've come to know as "Hunter's OD".

 

Anyhow, I believe this discussion has come to an end. In earnest, I'm dissatisfied, yet swayed. I'm not exactly familiar what happens now, this topic serves no further reason for me personally. If you still have a comment feel free to share your thoughts although I'm fairly certain moderators have enough justification to shut this topic down.

Couple other things to take note of hunter OD:

 

· Can halt the reload process of turrets.

 

· Cancels out railgun delay, magnums charging, shafts sniping, Vulcan spin up, and striker and Gauss lock on.

 

As for the topic, a mod will merge it in a few days.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Lots of Titan Overdrives around one point is mismanagement of Overdrives. 

[Maf 32,300]

I think the only nerf it needs is not disabling the enemy turrets. So while you're stopped by a Hunter you should still be able to continue shooting, and maybe even turn your turret (but not tank).

[wolverine848 13,097]

I think the only nerf it needs is not disabling the enemy turrets. So while you're stopped by a Hunter you should still be able to continue shooting, and maybe even turn your turret (but not tank).

With that it should be able to remove ALL active ODs - not just some of them. 

 

I mean, how would Hunter ever beat a Viking that had active OD?

[Benefactor 6,888]

Lots of titan overdrives around one point = game ruiner.

Or one Titan surrounded by three Dictators. Or three Dictators in a fleet of Wasps and Vikings with heavy splash damage turrets.

[RIDDLER_8 5,552]

No more nerfs please.

[Maf 32,300]

With that it should be able to remove ALL active ODs - not just some of them. 

 

I mean, how would Hunter ever beat a Viking that had active OD?

Yep, I agree. If Viking could still shoot fast while stopped, it would lose its only major counter-OD.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

With that it should be able to remove ALL active ODs - not just some of them. 

 

I mean, how would Hunter ever beat a Viking that had active OD?

Or a hornet with Double damage.

[Truthteller 4,204]

Gauss, Magnum and Shaft RFM are being exploited they are clearly outpowering other turrets

[featwasath 267]

Hunter OD is not overpowered. Hunters can freeze other tankers, but they can't kill every tank they freeze cause they gotta attack the Hunter as soon as they can move again. Also there's a small delay when activating Hunter's OD & you can use that time to kill it. IT'S POSSIBLE, cause I've killed a lot of hunters while they were activating their OD, with my Railgun & Gauss  :)

[Genuine_Noob 34]

game has no balance whatsoever.

gauss magnum shaft twins titan are all to overpowered . 

smoky is to underpowered, most stoke turrets are underpowered as well.

lets be real for almost all turrets alterations are a clear upgrade .

to many extra damage. freezing and burning should only be available to freeze and firebird and no turret have the right to have mines.

and don't get me started on that crap MM, even if satan was a game developer he would have trouble coming up with something this evil.

some map should not be available to some game modes. battles are 8 min  and pro battles are death.

there is no longer any enjoyment left in this game.

the only thing this game has left for it is its economie  (credit due where credit is due).

Edited August 13, 2019 by Genuine_Noob

[wolverine848 13,097]

game has no balance whatsoever.

gauss magnum shaft twins titan are all to overpowered . 

smoky is to underpowered, most stoke turrets are underpowered as well.

lets be real for almost all turrets alterations are a clear upgrade .

to many extra damage. freezing and burning should only be available to freeze and firebird and no turret have the right to have mines.

and don't get me started on that crap MM, even if satan was a game developer he would have trouble coming up with something this evil.

some map should not be available to some game modes. battles are 8 min  and pro battles are death.

there is no longer any enjoyment left in this game.

the only thing this game has left for it is its economie  (credit due where credit is due).

Agreed.

[Erwin_Smith 13]

i think freeze need more freezeing power in m2 and m3 and a bit bit in m1 coz it does not freeze and why calling it freeze if it does not freeze?

the alt cost a lot even if it does not cost a lot it still decrease DMG insanly which is useless plus u spend crystals on it.

 

and it does not agnite as firebird do so its totally useless weapon. either buff its freezing or remove it nnooobbbs