category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Hate 5,582]

 

 

Topics merged.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

One thing to factor in is the protection modules of the stunned enemy, as well as if the Hunter has double damage activated or not. Chances are, if you have good protection against the Hunter's turret, it is likely that you will survive those 3 seconds.. 

That's me one time when facing Shaft vs Shaft. A Hunter zapped me and I survived.

[TinBoxGunner 68]

Dictators everywhere, sharing ODs with rest of the dics.  Talk about balancing the brain acitivity of the devs.....

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Dictators everywhere, sharing ODs with rest of the dics.  Talk about balancing the brain acitivity of the devs.....

Dictators do not receive Overdrive charge from other Dictators' Overdrives. 

 

And it's good to see sharing in this game. 

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

Dictators everywhere, sharing ODs with rest of the dics.  Talk about balancing the brain acitivity of the devs.....

1. On your team or on the other team?

 

2. If the other team, well, they're not using it in the best way you would imagine. I'd much rather be giving it to Hornets and Titans.

 

3. If on your team, then how about you actually move over there and get your Overdrive filled up?

 

4. Dictator is meant to be a team asset. If it enrages you as an enemy, then they're doing their job right. If it enrages you as a teammate, then maybe you shouldn't be playing team battles in the first place.

[TinBoxGunner 68]

1. On your team or on the other team?

 

2. If the other team, well, they're not using it in the best way you would imagine. I'd much rather be giving it to Hornets and Titans.

 

3. If on your team, then how about you actually move over there and get your Overdrive filled up?

 

4. Dictator is meant to be a team asset. If it enrages you as an enemy, then they're doing their job right. If it enrages you as a teammate, then maybe you shouldn't be playing team battles in the first place.

 

Dear dictator user.   When you try to give  nitty twitty answers but fail miserably, maybe you should stop it.  

 

Too many hulls or turrets of same type  in either of the teams indicate there is a balancing issue.

Edited August 31, 2019 by TinBoxGunner

[Tidebreaker 1,669]

Dear dictator user.   When you try to give  nitty twitty answers but fail miserably, maybe you should stop it.  

 

Too many hulls or turrets of same type  in either of the teams indicate there is a balancing issue.

Dear Wasp user,

 

If I wanted to give a good answer to a comment, I would have. Honestly, your hate-fueled comment did not make me want to give a competent response back. Also, given the fact that you have not played Tanki in at least 2 weeks, I'm going to assume that you decided to write this comment on a whim.

 

Do you know what it's like to go out as a Dictator in MM and never even get a thank-you? And do you know how it feels like when you get flak for helping others? Not very good. You're right about there being a balancing issue when too many hulls are on the same team, though. I'm assuming they're in battle groups, which does break gameplay to a certain extent. The reason you're seeing Dictators is because the cheapest M2 kits are either Hornet or Dictator. No way around that. You'll start to miss the times when your teammates actually gave you the Overdrives instead of stealing them from you. You go to a couple of ranks ahead, and all you have are Titans and Vikings. Then you'll get the whole package of spawntrapping.

 

I wish there was a system that limited a certain amount of hulls in battles, though.

[TinBoxGunner 68]

Dear Wasp user,

 

If I wanted to give a good answer to a comment, I would have. Honestly, your hate-fueled comment did not make me want to give a competent response back. Also, given the fact that you have not played Tanki in at least 2 weeks, I'm going to assume that you decided to write this comment on a whim.

 

Do you know what it's like to go out as a Dictator in MM and never even get a thank-you? And do you know how it feels like when you get flak for helping others? Not very good. You're right about there being a balancing issue when too many hulls are on the same team, though. I'm assuming they're in battle groups, which does break gameplay to a certain extent. The reason you're seeing Dictators is because the cheapest M2 kits are either Hornet or Dictator. No way around that. You'll start to miss the times when your teammates actually gave you the Overdrives instead of stealing them from you. You go to a couple of ranks ahead, and all you have are Titans and Vikings. Then you'll get the whole package of spawntrapping.

 

I wish there was a system that limited a certain amount of hulls in battles, though.

 

Ok, kudos to you TideBreaker for a thought answer.  Yes, I was a bit p..ssed when giving my original output ;) .   I actually have used maybe 10 different accounts to play with 1-2 turret / hull with each acc to secure enough upgrades to keep myself competent against buyers. 

 

I have played maybe 5 years this game and it seems to be end of its life-time. Can't get back the good old times with hull/turret w/o all extras added to this game.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Ok, kudos to you TideBreaker for a thought answer.  Yes, I was a bit p..ssed when giving my original output ;) .   I actually have used maybe 10 different accounts to play with 1-2 turret / hull with each acc to secure enough upgrades to keep myself competent against buyers. 

 

I have played maybe 5 years this game and it seems to be end of its life-time. Can't get back the good old times with hull/turret w/o all extras added to this game.

Tanki has to be worked on constantly, or else it would've been shut a long time ago.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Tanki has to be worked on constantly, or else it would've been shut a long time ago.

True but... there's good ways to "work on it" and bad ways to "work on it".   IMO they've done more of the latter...

[indyone 22]

It would be nice to have a traditional mode.

 

Ok, kudos to you TideBreaker for a thought answer.  Yes, I was a bit p..ssed when giving my original output ;) .   I actually have used maybe 10 different accounts to play with 1-2 turret / hull with each acc to secure enough upgrades to keep myself competent against buyers. 

 

I have played maybe 5 years this game and it seems to be end of its life-time. Can't get back the good old times with hull/turret w/o all extras added to this game.

Getting back to the old times might be a nice game mode or map where you play traditional tanki mode only, like you are suggesting.  No extras.

[king-at-gold 31]

About Vulcan alteration (Incendiary band) Is so powerful I think u must nerfed it (my opinion)

Edited September 2, 2019 by king-at-gold

[wolverine848 13,097]

About Vulcan alteration (Incendiary band) Is so powerful I think u must nerfed it (my opinion)

They did nerf it (along with all other Vulcans   :angry:  ) by making standard damage -75% when it overheats.

 

So not only is the hull taking overheat damage to make incendiary work, it's not fire-damage is minimal.

 

Don't see nearly as many incendiaries now.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

They did nerf it (along with all other Vulcans   :angry:  ) by making standard damage -75% when it overheats.

 

So not only is the hull taking overheat damage to make incendiary work, it's not fire-damage is minimal.

 

Don't see nearly as many incendiaries now.

Absolutely terrible way to nerf it. I would've just swap it's price and unlucky rank with the SSR alteration.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Too many hulls or turrets of same type  in either of the teams indicate there is a balancing issue.

Ah yes, the blessing/curse of poor hull diversity in a team. 

 

A team with a little bit of everything can respond to more situations faster and/or more efficiently. A team with the majority of members being one hull can either be troublesome for the team or beneficial, as I've seen often. 

 

I usually see many in the entire battle. They have the slowest charge rate of all Overdrives, but packs a hefty punch if left uninterrupted. What happens after 3 minutes of battling? Constant Viking Overdrives, which can result in spawnkilling for one team if they got the upper hand on their Vikings' effectiveness.

 

I've seen it backfire as well, where Titans would have their dome ready by the time the Vikings have their Overdrives ready and it is effectively tanked. They would use them all at once instead of one at a time and waste potential.

 

From experience (in Legend battles and/or Lieutenant battles), teams with:

 

4 or more Hornets: Generally win as my team got to see where the enemies were for most of the entire battle, as wlel as them ingoring any protections they have and one-shotting them with Railguns and Magnums. 

 

4 or more Wasps: Generally lose. I have seen multiple Wasps on one team win because they were able to sneak away quickly with the enemy flag but that's about it. 

 

4 or more Hunters: Generally win, but only in small and medium-sized maps. They suffered more on large maps like Magistral and Highway. 

 

4 or more Vikings: Generally win. It is a frequent occurrence for me to see more than 8 Vikings in the entire battle. Multiple Viking Overdrives means turning the tides on the domination of the battle, as well as initiating spawnkilling. The times where it loses are usually against many Titans.

 

4 or more Dictators: I explained this better somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Found it. Basically, it has the potential to devastating or detrimental. As the more Dictators you have in your team, the less likely your 50% Overdrive charge would be granted onto other allies. Or, if the Dictators choose to use it on the 3 non-Dictator Hulls, those 3 hulls will have many Overdrives during the battle.

 

4 or more Titans: Generally lose. I've seen teams like this play more defensively than offensively.On the other hand, I've witnessed a few times where multiple Titans storm the enemy base, put down a dome and give the flag to a medium or light hull. And they keep replacing each dome until they're killed. 

 

4 or more Mammoths: Generally lose. I've seen them play mainly defensive with this. It's only when there is an Isida healing them, they would go on the offensive. 

 

 

I would expect the MM system to have the first filter be ranks and then GS. I doubt it takes into consideration the hulls.And because we have a choice in what hulls we can use, it may technically be possible to have an entire battle filled with one hull. 

 

Absolutely terrible way to nerf it. I would've just swap it's price and unlucky rank with the SSR alteration.

It's one way to nerf it. Vulcan damage, on top of afterburn damage was insane and you'd have to be a madman to go out in the open if one of that is firing at you. They could have decreased the damage by maybe 40 or 50% and kept the other Vulcans the same. You weren't gaining anything when overheating with the other Vulcans. 

 

Don't see nearly as many incendiaries now.

This is good, they had their 6 months of fame. Just imagine if they didn't change it 3 days after it was released. You'd have tanks heating to maximum temperature after ~1.25 seconds of being shot at, instead of the 5 seconds we have currently. 

 

 

About Vulcan alteration (Incendiary band) Is so powerful I think u must nerfed it (my opinion)

It was nerfed and their numbers plummeted, just like it was expected to. Was the nerf too much? Maybe, but it's definitely an "ease up" from what it was pre-nerf. 

Edited September 5, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

 

Ah yes, the blessing/curse of poor hull diversity in a team. 

 

A team with a little bit of everything can respond to more situations faster and/or more efficiently. A team with the majority of members being one hull can either be troublesome for the team or beneficial, as I've seen often. 

 

I usually see many in the entire battle. They have the slowest charge rate of all Overdrives, but packs a hefty punch if left uninterrupted. What happens after 3 minutes of battling? Constant Viking Overdrives, which can result in spawnkilling for one team if they got the upper hand on their Vikings' effectiveness.

 

I've seen it backfire as well, where Titans would have their dome ready by the time the Vikings have their Overdrives ready and it is effectively tanked. They would use them all at once instead of one at a time and waste potential.

 

From experience (in Legend battles and/or Lieutenant battles), teams with:

 

4 or more Hornets: Generally win as my team got to see where the enemies were for most of the entire battle, as wlel as them ingoring any protections they have and one-shotting them with Railguns and Magnums. 

 

4 or more Wasps: Generally lose. I have seen multiple Wasps on one team win because they were able to sneak away quickly with the enemy flag but that's about it. 

 

4 or more Hunters: Generally win, but only in small and medium-sized maps. They suffered more on large maps like Magistral and Highway. 

 

4 or more Vikings: Generally win. It is a frequent occurrence for me to see more than 8 Vikings in the entire battle. Multiple Viking Overdrives means turning the tides on the domination of the battle, as well as initiating spawnkilling. The times where it loses are usually against many Titans.

 

4 or more Dictators: I explained this better somewhere but I can't find it at the moment. Basically, it has the potential to devastating or detrimental. As the more Dictators you have in your team, the less likely your 50% Overdrive charge would be granted onto other allies. Or, if the Dictators choose to use it on the 3 non-Dictator Hulls, those 3 hulls will have many Overdrives during the battle.

 

4 or more Titans: Generally lose. I've seen teams like this play more defensively than offensively.On the other hand, I've witnessed a few times where multiple Titans storm the enemy base, put down a dome and give the flag to a medium or light hull. And they keep replacing each dome until they're killed. 

 

4 or more Mammoths: Generally lose. I've seen them play mainly defensive with this. It's only when there is an Isida healing them, they would go on the offensive. 

 

 

I would expect the MM system to have the first filter be ranks and then GS. I doubt it takes into consideration the hulls.And because we have a choice in what hulls we can use, it may technically be possible to have an entire battle filled with one hull. 

 

 

 

It's one way to nerf it. Vulcan damage, on top of afterburn damage was insane and you'd have to be a madman to go out in the open if one of that is firing at you. They could have decreased the damage by maybe 40 or 50% and kept the other Vulcans the same. You weren't gaining anything when overheating with the other Vulcans. 

 

This is good, they had their 6 months of fame. Just imagine if they didn't change it 3 days after it was released. You'd have tanks heating to maximum temperature after ~1.25 seconds of being shot at, instead of the 5 seconds we have currently. 

 

 

It was nerfed and their numbers plummeted, just like it was expected to. Was the nerf too much? Maybe, but it's definitely an "ease up" from what it was pre-nerf. 

Problem is they didn't.  Nerfing all Vulcan "overheat" damage is just criminal.  They (stock vulcan's) are already being punished through self-damage.

 

Devs were either lazy or incompetent or both.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Problem is they didn't.  Nerfing all Vulcan "overheat" damage is just criminal.  They (stock vulcan's) are already being punished through self-damage.

 

Devs were either lazy or incompetent or both.

"Alternativa were either lazy or incompetent or both." Ha ha ha ha!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[2shots2kills 2,364]

Is it only me or has Magnum ruined the game? (even further then all the crap released this last years)

 

All I see are shots flying everywhere, oneshotting or dealing 80% HP worth of damage, without any counter to them. Those shells also have a insane amount of splash damage, and to make this worse, with the alterations, Magnums can turn their turret or lay mines around the map.

 

I am curious about your opinions, as I have returned to TO but I can't seem to enjoy myself, especially due to this artillery. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by 2shots2kills

[XxStriker 519]

Is it only me or has Magnum ruined the game? (even further then all the crap released this last years)

 

All I see are shots flying everywhere, oneshotting or dealing 80% HP worth of damage, without any counter to them. Those shells also have a insane amount of splash damage, and to make this worse, with the alterations, Magnums can turn their turret or lay mines around the map.

 

I am curious about your opinions, as I have returned to TO but I can't seem to enjoy myself, especially due to this artillery. 

It's especially a recent buff that heightened its power way over the top, it greatly reduced reload times. You can see some players shoot twice in really short times, after using a fully charged shot (That they can simply charge beforehand), and this is often a recipe for doom.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Is it only me or has Magnum ruined the game? (even further then all the crap released this last years)

 

All I see are shots flying everywhere, oneshotting or dealing 80% HP worth of damage, without any counter to them. Those shells also have a insane amount of splash damage, and to make this worse, with the alterations, Magnums can turn their turret or lay mines around the map.

 

I am curious about your opinions, as I have returned to TO but I can't seem to enjoy myself, especially due to this artillery. 

Magnum is currently overpowered, you have that correct. 

 

Let me just say that Magnum protection does wonders for your survivability in Legend battles these days. 

 

Magnum has been getting constant clean reload time buffs. While they affect each modification, the higher modifications are affected the most. With every change, the M3/4 Magnums get much more powerful compared to the M1/2. The splash damage distribution is worse than gauss' splash damage distribution, just keep that in mind. Gauss deals more splash damage overall than Magnum. Me saying that isn't me saying that Magnum is not overpowered or "not as overpowered as people make it out to be". It clearly is. 

 

I main Magnum and Isida on this account. I mostly use Magnum these days. You can take a look at these scores that I got from using it with the Reinforced Gun Carriage alteration (the one that allows it to rotate horizontally) with Hornet. 

 

My scores were too high consistently, almost as if it were an infallible META. Of course, in order to be hitting these direct shots, Magnums have to aim, and know what % velocity and at what angle to shoot at a target. With RGC, you no longer have the velocity meter, as well as having another projectile gravitation to get used to. So basically, with enough practise, you can know how long to charge up to hit particular enemies in particular positions. 

 

Magnum rewards the players who practise. But after these past few buff, it rewards anyone at this point. You may not do as well as the skilled Magnum players, but you'd still be doing well. 

 

---

 

I hope this reply satisfies you. It is best to buy magnum protection as soon as possible (if it's really that much of a nuisance for you), or you can wait it out to see if it gets nerfed in the next balance change (which I hope it will). 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Magnum is currently overpowered, you have that correct. 

 

Let me just say that Magnum protection does wonders for your survivability in Legend battles these days. 

 

Magnum has been getting constant clean reload time buffs. While they affect each modification, the higher modifications are affected the most. With every change, the M3/4 Magnums get much more powerful compared to the M1/2. The splash damage distribution is worse than gauss' splash damage distribution, just keep that in mind. Gauss deals more splash damage overall than Magnum. Me saying that isn't me saying that Magnum is not overpowered or "not as overpowered as people make it out to be". It clearly is. 

 

I main Magnum and Isida on this account. I mostly use Magnum these days. You can take a look at these scores that I got from using it with the Reinforced Gun Carriage alteration (the one that allows it to rotate horizontally) with Hornet. 

 

My scores were too high consistently, almost as if it were an infallible META. Of course, in order to be hitting these direct shots, Magnums have to aim, and know what % velocity and at what angle to shoot at a target. With RGC, you no longer have the velocity meter, as well as having another projectile gravitation to get used to. So basically, with enough practise, you can know how long to charge up to hit particular enemies in particular positions. 

 

Magnum rewards the players who practise. But after these past few buff, it rewards anyone at this point. You may not do as well as the skilled Magnum players, but you'd still be doing well. 

 

---

 

I hope this reply satisfies you. It is best to buy magnum protection as soon as possible (if it's really that much of a nuisance for you), or you can wait it out to see if it gets nerfed in the next balance change (which I hope it will).

 

It's mostly the alterations that make magnum OP, not the stock version itself.

 

One alteration encourages users to make long distance shots, which make it reload faster, which in turn gives it more DPM than stock.

 

Another alteration practically gives the player a lot more flexibility than stock.

 

The other alteration adds a new mechanic which can be used to trap enemies without having to leave your teams base.

 

They may not be upgrades, but they're certainly a lot more rewarding to use than stock.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

It's mostly the alterations that make magnum OP, not the stock version itself.

The parameters on the Stock version are what influences the power of the alterations. Magnum has no alteration that directly increases damage with each shot. Each alteration (except Mortar) deals the same damage per shot. 

 

One alteration encourages users to make long distance shots, which make it reload faster, which in turn gives it more DPM than stock.

Oh, that's how you viewed it? I didn't see it as ​encouraging long distance shots, but more that it incentivises shots with higher velocities. AGLM only reloads a shot faster than Stock Magnum if it shoots a 100% velocity shot at most 0.6 seconds after it fully charged to 100%. This is with consecutive shots, and not just a one-shot kill, then move on and charge up for the next enemy, that is where Stock magnum prevails in reload time.

 

But I can see how you thought it encourages long-range shots. Since those are consecutive shots, its reload will be faster than Stock Magnum, and in that specific scenario, better than Stock. 

 

Another alteration practically gives the player a lot more flexibility than stock.

I'm not sure if it gives "a lot more" flexibility, given that we must be in the sight of the enemy to kill them, while the vertical Magnums can be behind walls and kill them safely. RGC Magnum acts like it would if it were a Thunder. Since it shoots horizontally, it is subject to the same treatment the horizontal turrets are treated to. 

 

I won't lie that it gives them more flexibility, just not "a lot more". 

 

The other alteration adds a new mechanic which can be used to trap enemies without having to leave your teams base.

See, Mortar got a buff to its damage decrease, meaning it deals more damage per shot now than it did before the buff. That's a change for itself that is not tied to Stock magnum's performance, but what influenced Mortar's power that came from Stock Magnum was the reload time. The decreased clean reload time allows for more mines to be planted at once than before. 

 

You change the parameters for Stock, you change them for the alterations as well, which can result in them becoming directly/Indirectly buffed or nerfed. 

 

They may not be upgrades, but they're certainly a lot more rewarding to use than stock.

Mortar is confirmed more rewarding to use than Stock. I'd say RGC is more rewarding as well as you can see where your shots land and actually put in a velocity that you know (from days of practice) will hit them. AGLM is more rewarding under stricter conditions, but Stock magnum cna still do better than it. 

[2shots2kills 2,364]

 

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

 

Do you recommend a protection against Magnum? My main hull is Viking M3.5, and I would be able to upgrade my protection module up to 40%, do you think it would prevent me to get oneshotted most of the time?

 

I guess a Magnum with DD (so, 90% of the time) would still kill me in one hit, but if I equip Double Armor, I should be able to tank a shot. 

 

I was planning to MU M3 twins up to 11 level, but maybe it would be wiser to stop at level 6 and invest into a protection. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

 

Do you recommend a protection against Magnum? My main hull is Viking M3.5, and I would be able to upgrade my protection module up to 40%, do you think it would prevent me to get oneshotted most of the time? 

If Magnum are really annoying, get that Griffin module and you will be feared by them. And 40% should be good enough for tanking a hit when you are full HP. Unless you are playing matchmaking, Griffin module will get targeted by Hornets.

[tankhd.jr 24]

Just out of interest, which modules give the best survivability at high ranks? I'm guessing magnum is one.

Mine are a bit outdated by I use: thunder, railgun and firebird