category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 11/27/2020 at 3:18 AM, ThirdOnion said:

Instead, I propose that instead of igniting targets, IB will inflict all status effects that currently affect the player (afterburn, freezing, AP) on enemies.

I'm not understanding what you mean by this.

Which "player" are you referring to?

And how could a vulcan augment inflict freezing or cause AP?

[wolverine848 13,097]

19 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

Making a quick buck off one imbalanced item will not gain them money in the long run, if it plays a part in destroying fun gameplay

Say hello to Gauss EMP...

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

I think this is a very good point, things might be OK now but once more and more people get AP augments people could end up dying very fast indeed at Legend rank (and people already die fast).

Perhaps this could be changed so that Hornet overdrive gives you the current "armor reduced for everyone" status effect with a black version of the current symbol, and all the AP augments now only remove the target's armor for the Augment user (which would be indicated by a purple symbol just as we have now). Then they would still be powerful but the whole team wouldn't one-shot you.

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

2 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

Say hello to Gauss EMP...

Yep :( All the major balance problems in the game currently are due to items which were aimed at being bought for real currency (EMP Gauss, Heat Immunity, and Crisis drone when paired with Hopper) - the only exception is Hopper itself, but that is a new hull and it will surely be nerfed in the coming months. Now you could also argue Defender is IMBA, but Heat Immunity with Inc. Brand and EMP Gauss are much bigger problems.

If Alternativa leave EMP Gauss/Heat Immunity as they are, it will cost them money in the long run, the cost of players leaving the game (and not being around to spend) or not spending money because the game is so unbalanced and un-fun to play is incalculable. The formula for creating a successful (and profitable) game involves creating fun and balanced gameplay - if you look at all the truly successful games out there - destroying gameplay for the sake of earning quick cash off imbalanced one-off items is a fool's development strategy. I wonder will they ever learn this.

Edited November 28, 2020 by DestrotankAI9

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, Maf said:

It's ok, all you gotta do is buy the AP immunity augment on each of your hulls for 5000tk and you'll be immune to the AP effect! /s

Yay......

One AP augment definitely gives better value than 10 Battle Passes 

[mjmj5558 2,346]

3 hours ago, Maf said:

It's ok, all you gotta do is buy the AP immunity augment on each of your hulls for 5000tk and you'll be immune to the AP effect! /s

I think that's not a solution. Not everyone can afford that, and when someone is OP, we can just solve the problem with equipping immunity. (if you were sarcastic then i said nothing)

[Frylock 1,617]

@LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH I agree, due to ap turrets having the ability to do break your armor it just causes supplies to go to waste and cause other enemies to att despite the hornet od not being active. Dont forget about ap immunity XD.

Edited November 28, 2020 by MysticBlood

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

4 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

 

If the Vulcan is under influence of a status effect, it will inflict that status effect on any targets that it hits.

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, ThirdOnion said:

If the Vulcan is under influence of a status effect, it will inflict that status effect on any targets that it hits.

So... the augment does nothing if it is not affected by an enemy in some way?

Not sure that would fly...

[wolverine848 13,097]

17 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

The problem with the current OD is that it's not an OD, only a negative ability that motivates your allies to steal your kills.

The hornet with the OD can do the exact same thing to that target as it could before.  Ignores ALL defenses, including Titan Dome and can still one-shot those targets.

It's no worse than when a Hunter zaps an enemy and friendlies finish off those defenseless targets.  What score does Hunter get for that?

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

57 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

So... the augment does nothing if it is not affected by an enemy in some way?

Not sure that would fly...

It is still an upgrade from stock Vulcan. One might argue that Adrenaline does nothing if the user is not affected by the enemy in some way. Besides, if the user does not equip Heat Immunity, they will be able to ignite enemies when overheating.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ThirdOnion

[wolverine848 13,097]

1 hour ago, ThirdOnion said:

It is still an upgrade from stock Vulcan. One might argue that Adrenaline does nothing if the user is not affected by the enemy in some way. Besides, if the user does not equip Heat Immunity, they will be able to ignite enemies when overheating.

This part makes sense... not so much the other.

The thing is... you will always take damage - so adrenaline will kick in.  You can even control that with Thunder and Gauss.

Status effects though... outside of overheating, you have no control.

I personally think, along with most reasonable people, that IB should only ever kick in when the tank is actually taking self damage from overheating.  Not the first time the Devs have "missed".

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

36 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

I personally think, along with most reasonable people, that IB should only ever kick in when the tank is actually taking self damage from overheating.  Not the first time the Devs have "missed".

I agree. But it is unlikely that IB will be modified so that this is the case, because then IB + HI would be useless and I imagine the devs would not want that. So I am proposing making IB + HI almost useless but not quite by introducing an upside that kicks in in very specific scenarios.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ThirdOnion

[yellowghetto 3,206]

Really? I think the AP Augments for turrets are pretty awful. Don't offer much help as they are single target, don't last long status effect, and always has a downside when equipped.

I was so excited when I pulled Smoky's AP Augment from an Ultra Container, only to find out, it was garbage. The effect doesn't last long, and it is basically a regular Smoky with some cool effects. Not. Worth. It.

[2shots2kills 2,364]

38 minutes ago, yellowghetto said:

Really? I think the AP Augments for turrets are pretty awful. Don't offer much help as they are single target, don't last long status effect, and always has a downside when equipped.

I was so excited when I pulled Smoky's AP Augment from an Ultra Container, only to find out, it was garbage. The effect doesn't last long, and it is basically a regular Smoky with some cool effects. Not. Worth. It.

AP Augments are more team-based then 1V1, I think. If you are defending and you pop the AP effect on the attackers, they are done for. 

Protection modules, Double Armor, Defender drone, all useless... your teammates should be able to finish the targets in no time. 

 

 

[Akame 4,578]

I've used each AP augment, and for certain, they are more orientated for teamplay rather than solo play, that's what I love about them. Once more people get these, it will make hell for any defender player.
I had a game against 4 defender players, 2 were hoppers and had a module on, whilst one was freeze wasp and other fire hunter no module.
It was a CTF, they managed first cap with ease. When I understood what I was facing, I finally had my chance to use AP Shaft in a more supportive manner to break peoples OP defences so that my teammates could finish them off.
A player in enemy did lag out or leave in the last minute, but I had to fully focus on breaking the defender players armor, I only capped 1 flag that game for the equalizer then dropped back to defence to stop enemy defenders attacking with some occasional attacking enemy base to run distractions

The 4 defender players:

Spoiler

 

Lovely AP, how's that defender drone (and module for a few) gonna work now :)

Spoiler

2 in-game shots; there were more but didn't clip:

The rico on this screenshot didn't die due to my team being unavailable there in that moment, downside of AP, when teams are not in the right place at the right time. I had to use OD for the return in their base, pic below.

Stun immunity clutch for the return, they had cold immunity, from BP, why am I not surprised to see cold immunity hoppers

Spoiler

AP is kinda OP tbh, against defender and/or module players, if the team chemistry is there, if team chemistry isn't there, there is a limited amount you can do.

But hey, defender drones and deserve getting AP'd, majority of them are maxed and it's tough for weaker players to ever kill them.

It is partly OP when AP'ing people under domes. Only AP immunity will help for that scenario, but do people use that or other immunities? 

As for the damage and methods and duration for AP, I personally see Railgun being on top of the food chain, easy to use, and pierces with AP status effects. Yes the damage is reduced a lot, but considering many people use railgun modules, sounds pretty well enough for me. Not to forget, AP is meant to be a team player, just like Hornet's current OD, not a solo madman.

A few AP's may be a buff to stock though, i.e Hammer, Shaft, Magnum, Gauss, Ricochet* (Only on ricocheting shots, but most people should already be used to doing that so it's a buff for them). Seems fair for some of them in comparison with other augments within those turrets.

AP is useless in occasions where a titan dome doesn't exist, an enemy doesnt have armor nor module.
For crisis players, they just need to stick to max speed and damage mode essentially, for other players using armor is essentially a waste when they get AP'd, unless you manage to survive thanks to your damage output or lack of enemy team damage or your team for protecting you when you get AP'd.

Personally, it's worse to face AP players than EMP players, since many turrets can apply AP, whilst EMP is just from gauss EMP salvo and hunter OD, part counter is to use Owl module, if you survive and hold out 5 seconds, you can armor up again, and your modules don't get bypassed.  Getting EMP'd will eventually be very less common than getting AP'd by turrets/hornet OD, give it some time, and more AP players will get into game. I have seen a few AP players within the last few days, and some proved to be problematic at times.

 

[alkyng 3,080]

I wonder how dare the developers made AP Augments without disadvantage, lol the disadvantages they put aren't a real disadvantages, in example Gauss couldn't do AP with splash damage, Ok? where the disadvantage? if it still can do splash damage. Extremely farce and silly.. Except Smoky who has a real nerf in my list, but still -15% in critical damage is a trifle thing against AP advantage.. but I mean it's a real nerf not like others..

Devs really made it explicitly everything depend on paying or containers didn't have such disadvantage.. like hull Immunities (especially HI). and Drones, and now AP for turrets

I exclude from what I say, those who make a silly arguments, like you can gather tankoins to pay hull immunities or testing your luck with Ultra containers

And as AP Augments just available with containers "for buyers" so the devs didn't put on them a disadvantages.. omg, every turret Augment has a disadvantages somewhat, but when they put it with real money, they decided to come with no disadvantages.. 

Exclude from what I say, Freeze and Railgun. both have a real disadvantages, but compared to AP, the disadvantage is nothing really.. 

also  EMP Gauss, cuz it's with real money they gave it a huge advantages, with trifle disadvantages..

Sniping damage -25%, but sniping reload -50%.. omg that's only should consider as one Augment, but they didn't stop here with the EMP and shot speed +50%.. lastly with a stupid disadvantage *removing splash damage from what? from arcade shots no no no OMG"  I'm surely 100% they did it as just an increasing number of the disadvantages..

Believe me guys I have Heat Immunity in my Viking omg it's incredibly OP, I didn't care anymore about Firebirds or Hopper OD, or Vulcan incendiary-band.. all are nothing to me, omg this HI is incredibly OP.. I upgraded my Viking because this, Viking time increased from less 10 hrs to 68 hrs, and maybe will pass every single hull in time usage

Edited November 29, 2020 by asem.harbi
corrects

[Akame 4,578]

10 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

 

also  EMP Gauss, cuz it's with real money they gave it a huge advantages, with trifle disadvantages..

Sniping damage -25%, but sniping reload -50%.. omg that's only should consider as one Augment, but they didn't stop here with the EMP and shot speed +50%.. lastly with a stupid disadvantage *removing splash damage from what? from arcade shots no no no OMG"  I'm surely 100% they did it as just an increasing number of the disadvantages..

Yeah EMP Gauss has an amazing switch from locked salvo shot to arcade, whilst other augments and stock don't have that insane buff, the augments available in ultra conts though, i've seen some f2p players with it thinking they have become gods.
EMP salvo also does it for all enemies whilst AP salvo just for the locked target, a big difference in ability here. They do need to remove the sniping reload buff imo.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

12 hours ago, wolverine848 said:

The hornet with the OD can do the exact same thing to that target as it could before.  Ignores ALL defenses, including Titan Dome and can still one-shot those targets.

It's no worse than when a Hunter zaps an enemy and friendlies finish off those defenseless targets.  What score does Hunter get for that?

It's pretty simple. Hunter OD can be used in a tactical way, for example stunning al enemies in the base and capture a flag etc. Capturing a flag is 70 battle points, and equals to almost 5 kills. I think that's more than enough. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by mjmj5558
Typos

[Maf 32,300]

17 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

I think that's not a solution. 

/s implies sarcasm

[wolverine848 13,097]

4 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

It's pretty simple. Hunter OD can be used in a tactical way, for example stunning al enemies in the base and capture a flag etc. Capturing a flag is 70 battle points, and equals to almost 5 kills. I think that's more than enough. 

Well, that's exactly what they have done with hornet OD.  It's tactical because all team-mates benefit.

And as for hunter capturing a flag... it may or may not get away since the stun is not that long and defenders are free to shoot again pretty quickly.  And it's not like Hunter has hopper's speed.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

Well, that's exactly what they have done with hornet OD.  It's tactical because all team-mates benefit.

Can you please tell me, how can i get points from my team-mates kills?

[wolverine848 13,097]

16 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Can you please tell me, how can i get points from my team-mates kills?

Same way a hunter gets points from it's team-mates kills.

And why can't you kill some of those yourself?  You get the exact same benefits...

[mjmj5558 2,346]

10 minutes ago, wolverine848 said:

Same way a hunter gets points from it's team-mates kills.

And why can't you kill some of those yourself?  You get the exact same benefits...

As i said before, hunter can stop enemies, so you can have a huge advantage fron that. Hornet can't do tthat. You should understand that ODs are not just only about kills.

[wolverine848 13,097]

17 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

As i said before, hunter can stop enemies, so you can have a huge advantage fron that. Hornet can't do tthat. You should understand that ODs are not just only about kills.

Wait a minute.  Doesn't killing a tank also stop it?   And give you a score too?