category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

4 minutes ago, Spy said:

Meta is not something you can remove just like that. From my point of view, the term "meta" refers to the best / most used combos by the majority of the players. You can take Hopper for example; Hopper is by far the best Hull in the game at the moment, which is why it is so popular. If Hopper will be nerfed, players will start using other hulls. (The same thing that happened to Hornet) In conclusion, meta cannot be removed but changed.

Best way to nerf hopper, give every hull a unique ability that RIVALS this OP game changer.

We all no why OP gear is in the game, we all no it's inherently unfair. 

The devs have forsaken game balance for the green eyed monster. They have become derelict in their duty towards their own players, cash rules, everything to do with balance is secondary. 

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

8 minutes ago, Son_Goku said:

Removing it isn't as easy and by how Tanki is handling balancing - it's basically impossible, since it's not actual balancing, more like reworking, that makes the reworked hull/turret... just as unbalanced.

Having a meta is completely normal and there's nothing we can do about it. There is no game out there that is 100% balanced, there's always something that is stronger/weaker

So why can't TO show the way, balance the cash aspect of the game with fairplay. The devs are clever people, i'm sure they could manage it. 

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

Let strength be determined by actual SKILL. Now there's a novelty.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

21 minutes ago, Spy said:

Meta is not something you can remove just like that. From my point of view, the term "meta" refers to the best / most used combos by the majority of the players. You can take Hopper for example; Hopper is by far the best Hull in the game at the moment, which is why it is so popular. If Hopper will be nerfed, players will start using other hulls. (The same thing that happened to Hornet) In conclusion, meta cannot be removed but changed.

Understandable, but what I mean is that these days, Hornet is pretty much irrelevant. This shouldn't be the case. Unless one uses a completely absurd combination, every combo should be valid.

[Spy 14,687]

4 minutes ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

Best way to nerf hopper, give every hull a unique ability that RIVALS this OP game changer.

We all no why OP gear is in the game, we all no it's inherently unfair. 

The devs have forsaken game balance for the green eyed monster. They have become derelict in their duty towards their own players, cash rules, everything to do with balance is secondary. 

You completely missed the point lol

[Tokamak 1,021]

Defender and Booster drones could be removed with no problem. Or they could be nerfed, either by having them available later, or reduced the boost output, or both.

For Hopper they could redo the rooftop of building by removing the flat roof hitbox that do not follow the roof inclines. Slopes on roof should make the life more difficult for them and would provide fewer spot for camping.

[Spy 14,687]

Just now, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

 

Players have no reason to use Hornet now because its overdrive became pretty bad, especially with the release of the AP augments. But yes, I do agree that every combo should be valid.

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

4 minutes ago, Spy said:

You completely missed the point lol

You really think that I missed the point.

I no exactly what point you were trying to get across, i was putting my own spin on it.

Your post was worded more accurately than killers, and yet i agreed with @LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH post way more than yours, in the sense that you were explaining why the meta is what it is. He was explaining why it should be changed,:- ie because it's BROKEN.

 

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

19 minutes ago, Unleash said:

I will disagree with this, why? because every combo is strong if you know how to use it properly, maybe in next experiment they should remove drones overs from mm and you will see how meta will change.

Now that is a good call, rely more on skill. LIKE IT.  

Of course there are a few big mouths out there that would also cry into their fizzy pop 

Edited January 3, 2021 by SONIC-BOOM

[SporkZilla 1,775]

Ones of the reasons I like using (stock) Smoky is it not being considered OP, and not as popular as some other turrets. Striker players might feel the same.

But that's changing with Smoky getting one of the best AP augments and more people using Autocannon (and more people using Smoky protection, sigh)

I'm worried that there will be a Smoky meta when Smoky HD and the change in its mechanics happens (even though it was a nerf for Thunder)

I don't want to use the best combo, and I don't want my combo to become the best combo

I'm aware that balancing is difficult and that best combos are created by accident in games, but in TO they are created on purpose and I hate that

[Spy 14,687]

2 minutes ago, SONIC-BOOM said:

 

LOLKILLER idea is basically about removing the meta, which is impossible as I have explained above. Yet you just explained how, in your opinion, Hopper should be nerfed. That has nothing to do with my post as I just brought up Hopper as an example

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

Just now, Spy said:

LOLKILLER idea is basically about removing the meta, which is impossible as I have explained above. Yet you just explained how, in your opinion, Hopper should be nerfed. That has nothing to do with my post as I just brought up Hopper as an example

I put my own thoughts on how to combat the current OP meta by giving every hull a OP unique ability, just like hopper has.

And it would not be IMPOSSIBLE to remove the current meta, implausible is probs more of a accurate word.

Let's call it a draw shall we @Spy

[mjmj5558 2,346]

@LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH just watch my latest sugvestions ;-; they are all related to the current meta

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

It is impossible to remove the "meta" system. If you nerf the strongest equipment in the game, other equipment would just take it's place.

• For example, 3 years ago, Firebird's Compact Fuel Tanks Alteration was the meta. However, since then, it has been nerfed heavily, and with the indirect nerf of adding Hull Augments and Heat Immunity, the meta for Firebird has now shifted to the Incendiary Mix Alteration, where direct damage is more reliable than burn damage.

The meta is always ever-changing.....and even if all the equipment in the game was perfectly, 100% balanced with one another, there will still be a meta....because, for example, most people would use Thunder over Striker due to Thunder being easier to use, even if the two turrets are perfectly balanced with each other.

[yasgfgfffgf 282]

3 hours ago, Spy said:

Meta is not something you can remove just like that. From my point of view, the term "meta" refers to the best / most used combos by the majority of the players. You can take Hopper for example; Hopper is by far the best Hull in the game at the moment, which is why it is so popular. If Hopper will be nerfed, players will start using other hulls. (The same thing that happened to Hornet) In conclusion, meta cannot be removed but changed.

when did hornet got nerfed for the last time?

[Mirza7 235]

If these combos can not be removed than add combos for other hulls/turret that can be OP. such as damage immunity for healer isida [using support nano] while healing. i feel as if i am a juggernaut, every enemy  targets me like I stole their account

Edited January 3, 2021 by Mirza7

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

Just now, yasgfgfffgf said:

when did hornet got nerfed for the last time?

It was "nerfed" in October 2020. It's armor piercing effect got its duration reduced, and only affects enemies in the Hornet's "line of sight" now, not everyone on the map.

(Although to be honest, the nerf was a nerf for Hornet.....but it ended up buffing the teammates who were allies with Hornet players, cause now the Hornet can "share" the armor-piercing ability with all of it's teammates)

Edited January 3, 2021 by Tanker-Arthur

[yasgfgfffgf 282]

19 minutes ago, Mirza7 said:

If these combos can not be removed than add combos for other hulls/turret that can be OP. such as damage immunity for healer isida [using support nano] while healing. i feel as if i am a juggernaut, every enemy  targets me like I stole their account

maybe you did 

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

To clarify, I'm not trying to say that we need to make every combo identical in terms of performance. What I mean is, using a particular hull or turret should not be significantly worse. Consider Hornet and Hooper for example. Given a choice, most players would flock to Hooper because it performs significantly better than Hornet to the point where people don't really use Hornet. What I mean to say, is that this should not be the case. Hornet should be buffed so that instead of "Hooper is the most powerful hull and Hornet is one of the weakest so I want to use Hooper". Instead, it should be "I'm a big fan of the way hover hulls handle, so I want to use Hooper". 

The point being, every turret and hull should be, at the very least, playable. In the current meta, Hornet is pretty much completely useless. This should not be the case. No turret or hull should be completely useless. The concept of "meta" discourages diversity in hulls and instead encourages the oppurtunist mindset, where players use a piece of equipment while it is overpowered, and then move on to the next overpowered equipment. All this does is generate high concentrations of the equipment. For example, before Hornet was nerfed, a lot of people used the hull. This in turn rendered almost every other hull relatively useless in the face of Hornet's overdrive, and what that did was simply make the game unbalanced.

[alkyng 3,080]

Players here saying the game couldn't be balanced 100%..!! you really guys? we all know that 100% is impossible, but we asked for a logical balance. EMP Gauss is incredibly unbalanced! is this situation came to the same word "Balance couldn't be 100%" ? We all know balance is a really hard and couldn't be perfect, but those are obviously OP and need a real rework, they meant to be OP, like EMP Gauss is with 47$....!!!! then someone came to say balance couldn't be 100%

I missed the game when it was really balanced for every combo, I can use any combo I want. Nowadays, I'm looking for meta, I don't use stock railgun or LCR, I just use Scout, though I love LCR more, I wish if I use it, but I couldn't deny the truth and use it instead of the OP Scout.

The same thing to Stock Ricochet, and Plasma-Torch and Minus-Field Augment.

Hopper ruined the Rugby mode, and the most favorite mode CTF. It's now unplayable, what's my problem! I want to play this awesome gamemode, but Hoppers ruined it, either in my team or in opposite team. It's a hot mode, defensing and attacking, capturing and struggling, require a good teamwork. Hopper jumped over all of those, ruined my best mode.

By the way, true the current meta ruined the game, and the best answer to whose mockering by "balance couldn't be perfect", EMP Gauss need a real rework in 2 parameter, first EMP effect should be depeneding in distance so if you are from 15-20 of the splash radius, you should get 1 second cooldown instead of 5 seconds.. and the EMP should affect the Gauss user if he was in the Splash damage radius. Those two basics and commonsense are quickly demanding for repairing such an anti logical quickly, it didn't need any think or hard explaining, for any sane human it need a real rework. Though even with these edits EMP Gauss still the meta, but those edits are a very demanding as a quick before the real comprehensively nerf.

Edited January 3, 2021 by asem.harbi

[wolverine848 13,097]

7 hours ago, Spy said:

Meta is not something you can remove just like that. From my point of view, the term "meta" refers to the best / most used combos by the majority of the players. You can take Hopper for example; Hopper is by far the best Hull in the game at the moment, which is why it is so popular. If Hopper will be nerfed, players will start using other hulls. (The same thing that happened to Hornet) In conclusion, meta cannot be removed but changed.

I think Killer means the Devs should stop introducing OP items - that become "meta".

Hopper is obviously not balanced - anyone with integrity will admit that.

So the Devs need to do a better job of testing new items under battle conditions (and that means equipping anything that is currently in the game)   AND  tweak it sooner than later.  It should not take 2+ years to balance a new hull (like it did with hornet OD).

[SONIC-BOOM 326]

4 hours ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

To clarify, I'm not trying to say that we need to make every combo identical in terms of performance. What I mean is, using a particular hull or turret should not be significantly worse. Consider Hornet and Hooper for example. Given a choice, most players would flock to Hooper because it performs significantly better than Hornet to the point where people don't really use Hornet. What I mean to say, is that this should not be the case. Hornet should be buffed so that instead of "Hooper is the most powerful hull and Hornet is one of the weakest so I want to use Hooper". Instead, it should be "I'm a big fan of the way hover hulls handle, so I want to use Hooper". 

The point being, every turret and hull should be, at the very least, playable. In the current meta, Hornet is pretty much completely useless. This should not be the case. No turret or hull should be completely useless. The concept of "meta" discourages diversity in hulls and instead encourages the oppurtunist mindset, where players use a piece of equipment while it is overpowered, and then move on to the next overpowered equipment. All this does is generate high concentrations of the equipment. For example, before Hornet was nerfed, a lot of people used the hull. This in turn rendered almost every other hull relatively useless in the face of Hornet's overdrive, and what that did was simply make the game unbalanced.

Ahhh the voice of reason. It's a shame the big hardcore buyers keep this meta going. The devs play on this, and the hardcore fizzy pop drinkers just keep lapping it up.

  

[JustBlackWolf 875]

Here's  my idea instaed

since that the "drawback" of this Augment is "Splash effect removed"
Then even the charged shot shouldn't have any Area damage, or EMP area damage, making it affect only the tank that is being aimed at. If said tank has EMP immunity, git gud.

If this doesn't happen, i'm suggesting to add "self-friendly fire" to Gauss EMP, if the user is too close to the explosion, assuming that they don't have EMP-immunity, their own supplies will also be removed.

Absolutely overpowered Augment, something must be done about it, and quickly. I don't care if it's something you can only find in crates, a single player with this, and you've won the game from the beginning.

Edited January 6, 2021 by simofigooo

[Spy 14,687]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:02 PM, Tanker-Arthur said:

 

Topic merged.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

On 1/2/2021 at 10:51 AM, The_Resistance said:

'Cause it is stun, but not only movement reduction. Also, freeze effect does not immidiately fly away.

Yes, but forcing the player to drop the flag or the ball is a bit much. Stunning should only halt movement speed and turret reload.