category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[alkyng 3,080]

I think the biggest problem is the 50% protections, I think protections should be nerfed to 40% or 35% maximum. 50% protection is a way too much, 50% of your damage is gone. Especially against Railgun LCR, it's really slow to kill a hull with 50% protection, especially when they use a RK after that. Btw, it's very disgusting against any turret, 50%.

I really hate when I found someone with 50% against my turret, especially if he was Juggernaut.

50% protections are unreasonable, I suggest to nerf them to 35% (if haven't suggest more). So yes if there are an annoying Twins who killed you, you can equip some immunity against him "35% protection" not a whole destroyer 50%. So you can prevent those annoying turrets by your equivalent modest protections, but not to 50%.

So I think this also will solve the problem in the topic, and 35% wont make a lot of a disappointment, and for sure wont force you to change your turret just because the players. And will still protect you from getting one-shot killed by Shafts or Magnums.

[Pineapple 8]

hmm

[mjmj5558 2,346]

Autocannon is a really irritating augments to go against, and they became too powerfull in the last months. So my idea is to sligthly nerf AC, with nerfing down it's impact force to 0. So if AC hits you, your tank won't get any impact from it, only damage, so you have better chances against them.

[Spy 14,687]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:39 AM, Emeraldcat345 said:

 

Topic merged.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

On 1/24/2021 at 7:43 AM, asem.harbi said:

I think the biggest problem is the 50% protections, I think protections should be nerfed to 40% or 35% maximum. 50% protection is a way too much, 50% of your damage is gone. Especially against Railgun LCR, it's really slow to kill a hull with 50% protection, especially when they use a RK after that. Btw, it's very disgusting against any turret, 50%.

Lots of people have invested large amounts of crystals to get 50% protections, it's rather unfair that they should just willy nilly be nerfed down to 40% or 35%. Honestly, it is annoying to deal with, but I'd rather be using 50% instead of 35% along with Defender and EMP immunity against an EMP Salvo player for example, even if it means they can use 50% against me.

[alkyng 3,080]

3 hours ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Lots of people have invested large amounts of crystals to get 50% protections, it's rather unfair that they should just willy nilly be nerfed down to 40% or 35%. Honestly, it is annoying to deal with, but I'd rather be using 50% instead of 35% along with Defender and EMP immunity against an EMP Salvo player for example, even if it means they can use 50% against me.

Many turrets and hulls get nerfed by the time, and there is no problem. But if we took your petition we will apply it to everything. Don't forget, if protections get nerfed to 35% in example, the ones who have 35% protections will get it also nerfed.

So if you have an Mk7 35% protection.. after the nerf for sure it will be 25%, and the ones who have Mk8 50% protection it will get nerfed to 35%. So it's a general nerf like for any turret and hull, and the ones who invested large amount of crystals to get 50% protections tend to invest it also in 35% in sake of getting the 35% protection.

Btw, in nowadays Smoky will get some a nerf, I can say the same what you said. But no, there is no compensation for players, and developers do what they want, so they can nerf protections without caring of its users like many turrets that have nerfed before.

By the way, for your last sentence, it's a purely OP, and this combo against EMP with Defender wont affect that much if the protection reduced from 50% to 35% as it's dependent on the Defender and EMP more than this 15% differnce in protections modules.

[E_polypterus 2,374]

14 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Many turrets and hulls get nerfed by the time, and there is no problem. But if we took your petition we will apply it to everything. Don't forget, if protections get nerfed to 35% in example, the ones who have 35% protections will get it also nerfed.

So if you have an Mk7 35% protection.. after the nerf for sure it will be 25%, and the ones who have Mk8 50% protection it will get nerfed to 35%. So it's a general nerf like for any turret and hull, and the ones who invested large amount of crystals to get 50% protections tend to invest it also in 35% in sake of getting the 35% protection.

Btw, in nowadays Smoky will get some a nerf, I can say the same what you said. But no, there is no compensation for players, and developers do what they want, so they can nerf protections without caring of its users like many turrets that have nerfed before.

By the way, for your last sentence, it's a purely OP, and this combo against EMP with Defender wont affect that much if the protection reduced from 50% to 35% as it's dependent on the Defender and EMP more than this 15% differnce in protections modules.

Or maybe only 50% prot users get the nerf but, with a refund. Tbh even 40%+ or so is just way too much to go up against.

[wolverine848 13,097]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:43 PM, asem.harbi said:

I think the biggest problem is the 50% protections, I think protections should be nerfed to 40% or 35% maximum. 50% protection is a way too much, 50% of your damage is gone. Especially against Railgun LCR, it's really slow to kill a hull with 50% protection, especially when they use a RK after that. Btw, it's very disgusting against any turret, 50%.

I really hate when I found someone with 50% against my turret, especially if he was Juggernaut.

50% protections are unreasonable, I suggest to nerf them to 35% (if haven't suggest more). So yes if there are an annoying Twins who killed you, you can equip some immunity against him "35% protection" not a whole destroyer 50%. So you can prevent those annoying turrets by your equivalent modest protections, but not to 50%.

So I think this also will solve the problem in the topic, and 35% wont make a lot of a disappointment, and for sure wont force you to change your turret just because the players. And will still protect you from getting one-shot killed by Shafts or Magnums.

This favors long-range weapons which will have an easier time one-shotting targets.

A tank with short-range turret won't have a chance to get close to long-rangers, especially if they manage to get in more than 1 hit.

Gauss EMP is a prime example.  Strips away your DA and without a decent module you are naked.  The silly augment allows the Gauss to shoot again before your supplies are available.

There are lots of boosts to damage now, including drones and augments.

[wolverine848 13,097]

37 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

So if you have an Mk7 35% protection.. after the nerf for sure it will be 25%, and the ones who have Mk8 50% protection it will get nerfed to 35%. So it's a general nerf like for any turret and hull, and the ones who invested large amount of crystals to get 50% protections tend to invest it also in 35% in sake of getting the 35% protection.

The mk7 loses 10%.  The MK8 loses 15%.

Spent more crystals and loses more of their base protection.  Does not sound fair to me.

[LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH 1,921]

48 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

Many turrets and hulls get nerfed by the time, and there is no problem. But if we took your petition we will apply it to everything. Don't forget, if protections get nerfed to 35% in example, the ones who have 35% protections will get it also nerfed.

So if you have an Mk7 35% protection.. after the nerf for sure it will be 25%, and the ones who have Mk8 50% protection it will get nerfed to 35%. So it's a general nerf like for any turret and hull, and the ones who invested large amount of crystals to get 50% protections tend to invest it also in 35% in sake of getting the 35% protection.

Btw, in nowadays Smoky will get some a nerf, I can say the same what you said. But no, there is no compensation for players, and developers do what they want, so they can nerf protections without caring of its users like many turrets that have nerfed before.

By the way, for your last sentence, it's a purely OP, and this combo against EMP with Defender wont affect that much if the protection reduced from 50% to 35% as it's dependent on the Defender and EMP more than this 15% differnce in protections modules.

Well even still, that's just, as Wolverine848 says, gonna buff long ranged turrets indirectly. Also, the difference between 50% and 35% is considerable, certainly not negligible. Well yes, if something's OP it should get balanced properly instead of being left like that because nerfing it would cause the users dismay.

[alkyng 3,080]

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

This favors long-range weapons which will have an easier time one-shotting targets.

A tank with short-range turret won't have a chance to get close to long-rangers, especially if they manage to get in more than 1 hit.

Gauss EMP is a prime example.  Strips away your DA and without a decent module you are naked.  The silly augment allows the Gauss to shoot again before your supplies are available.

There are lots of boosts to damage now, including drones and augments.

Ok but think about it, if you have LCR Railgun against a Viking with 50% protection, you have to shoot this Viking 4 shoots before he die, and if he used repair kit it will be 7 shoots. It's way too much, but with 35% prot it will be 3 shoots to kill and 5 with Repair kit kinda balanced. LCR is a very slow, and 50% protections terminated it. I agree this nerf to protection will benefit long-ranged turrets more, but it in general will benefit the game's balance. I got angry while fighting anyone with 50% protection, either with LCR or with any turret, 50% prot is a farce it shouldn't be exist.

I have a 30% protection against Gauss, and Mk8 EMP Gauss have to kill me with Three sniping shoots with DD, so with 35% it's something balanced. And for sure EMP isn't in our discussion as it's insanely broken.

Again my suggestion to protections is to be considered as a some protection to a turret who annoyed you, not a breaker for it like the 50% protection. So if Shaft one-shot you, you can equip 35% protection and it wont one-shot you again. If a skilled Twins bothered you, you can equip a reasonable 35% protection.

50% protections are a game-breaker, they ruined the game

1 hour ago, wolverine848 said:

The mk7 loses 10%.  The MK8 loses 15%.

Spent more crystals and loses more of their base protection.  Does not sound fair to me.

Because the nerf is -30% protection, so it will be -10% in Mk7 and -15% to Mk8, and in every time we go lower Mk the nerf will be lower not just with Mk8 and Mk7. Again, the players who have Mk8 protections, will upgrade them to Mk8 even if they were 35%.

1 hour ago, E_polypterus said:

Or maybe only 50% prot users get the nerf but, with a refund. Tbh even 40%+ or so is just way too much to go up against.

Agree, but no need of a refund, it's a nerf no one deserve a refund. RFM Shaft get  a real nerfed before a while, there's no a compensation or a refund, Hornet OD get nerfed also.

56 minutes ago, LOLKILLERTOTHEDEATH said:

Also, the difference between 50% and 35% is considerable, certainly not negligible.

Yes, but 50% is a broken it's way too much, it exhausted us

Edited January 25, 2021 by asem.harbi

[Akame 4,578]

Sounds like a good idea, but totally killing off impact force may not be the way, maybe reduce it but not to 0, recoil must exist and balance must be a thing, or maybe the crit shots will give impact?

[Akame 4,578]

Modules were always broken from the start, at times we have major gens playing vs legends who have 50% and defender, its nothing that can be fixed, it has been done, to change and alter this, would be to vastly effect how the gameplay is.

As others may know, I stick to Mine, Railgun and Gauss prots, I do not use others for personal reasons. So even if modules were removed, I know i can play against many turrets i.e Magnum/Thunder/Vulcan/Melees etc. That is my way of compensating, and abusing the common annoying combos i.e railgun LCR/Scout and Gauss EMP, note, I do not use EMP immunity, 50% is enough to face one for me.

[Tanker-Arthur 2,971]

3 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

Autocannon is a really irritating augments to go against, and they became too powerfull in the last months. So my idea is to sligthly nerf AC, with nerfing down it's impact force to 0. So if AC hits you, your tank won't get any impact from it, only damage, so you have better chances against them.

An impact force of 0 is kind of illogical, as in real life, any physical object hitting another physical object will surely cause impact.
I suggest keeping impact force, but making it much, much lower than it is today.

Also, with the tracing projectile update coming for Smoky, Autocannon should reduce projectile speed, to emphasize the alteration's lack of high caliber ammo.

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

36 minutes ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

An impact force of 0 is kind of illogical, as in real life, any physical object hitting another physical object will surely cause impact.

At the same time, in real life, tanks rarely respond to being hit by shells in the same exaggerated manner as they do in TO.

[mjmj5558 2,346]

56 minutes ago, Akame said:

Sounds like a good idea, but totally killing off impact force may not be the way, maybe reduce it but not to 0, recoil must exist and balance must be a thing, or maybe the crit shots will give impact?

Yeah, giving the impact only to the critical sounds like a  good idea!

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

Interesting idea man, however I think what needs to be done to balance Autocannon is quite simple - revert the change that was done before that made it (possibly) too strong.

To quote the patch notes from 30th April 2020:

Quote

 

Augment for Smoky «Autocannon»:

• Minimum and maximum damage decrease is now  75% instead of 80%.

 

So bring it back to 80% damage reduction for non - critical shots and before. This is the simplest and best way to nerf Autocannon.

Before this change, Autocannon was perfectly balanced. Autocannon had a niche as the superior long-range Smoky alteration (but inferior at short-mid range) and this is what it should return to. I really hope that when they implement the shot travel time in the upcoming patch that they don't do the same as they did to Sledgehammer rounds Thunder - and nerf it by nerfing the shot travel time, which would totally ruin the purpose of Autocannon. However given the difference in purpose between the two augments - hopefully this is unlikely.

(Original patch notes) : 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

1 hour ago, Tanker-Arthur said:

An impact force of 0 is kind of illogical, as in real life, any physical object hitting another physical object will surely cause impact.
I suggest keeping impact force, but making it much, much lower than it is today.

Also, with the tracing projectile update coming for Smoky, Autocannon should reduce projectile speed, to emphasize the alteration's lack of high caliber ammo.

Just saw this post. See my post above. The nerf to Autocannon should absolutely not be a reduction in projectile speed, which would be the worst case scenario as I said above. Autocannon with its focus on critical damage, which is not reduced at long-range, is the optimal long-range alteration for Smoky - that is its niche role. It would be a terrible idea to nerf the shot travel time as that leaves it in a confused role, not really good for anything. Just revert the damage back to what it was and all is well, no other changes needed. Maybe a slight nerf to impact force, sure.

Edited January 25, 2021 by DestrotankAI9

[wolverine848 13,097]

3 hours ago, asem.harbi said:

Because the nerf is -30% protection, so it will be -10% in Mk7 and -15% to Mk8, and in every time we go lower Mk the nerf will be lower not just with Mk8 and Mk7. Again, the players who have Mk8 protections, will upgrade them to Mk8 even if they were 35%.

I understand what you are saying.  But you ignored my point entirely.  The mk8 loses an extra 5% even though they spent more crystals.  You are punishing them for investing more in modules.

Are you suggesting that 35% in your proposal should cost the same as 50% does now?

There's 14 turrets and only 3 slots.  How many of the enemy do you regularly face that have protection against you?  1 or maybe 2 per battle?  How is that a significant issue?  IS RAIL YOUR FAV TURRET?  

I notice that only one of your modules have been upgraded to mk7.  A wee bit of bias leaking through me-thinks.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by wolverine848

[wolverine848 13,097]

10 hours ago, mjmj5558 said:

Autocannon is a really irritating augments to go against, and they became too powerfull in the last months. So my idea is to sligthly nerf AC, with nerfing down it's impact force to 0. So if AC hits you, your tank won't get any impact from it, only damage, so you have better chances against them.

It's impact is already nerfed -66% compared to stock - mostly a tickle now.  You actually feel it affects your performance when hit by it?

[yellowghetto 3,206]

Check out this topic

This may be the change you are hoping for. Requires more skill when aiming, so you will probably be hit less when facing off against Autocannon users.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

2 hours ago, DestrotankAI9 said:

[spoiler] Interesting idea man, however I think what needs to be done to balance Autocannon is quite simple - revert the change that was done before that made it (possibly) too strong.

To quote the patch notes from 30th April 2020:

So bring it back to 80% damage reduction for non - critical shots and before. This is the simplest and best way to nerf Autocannon.

Before this change, Autocannon was perfectly balanced. Autocannon had a niche as the superior long-range Smoky alteration (but inferior at short-mid range) and this is what it should return to. I really hope that when they implement the shot travel time in the upcoming patch that they don't do the same as they did to Sledgehammer rounds Thunder - and nerf it by nerfing the shot travel time, which would totally ruin the purpose of Autocannon. However given the difference in purpose between the two augments - hopefully this is unlikely.

(Original patch notes) : 

[/spoiler] 

If Smoky were to remain hitscan, maybe put it down to -85% or -90%. Even then, augments are available to all ranks now. Autocannon had always been theoretically broken in the low ranks and after April 2020 we finally see it in practice there,and our expectations were wholy right. 

 

I'm interested to see what changes they make to the augments when they convert it, and to see if the Autocannon mess - whose flames were recently fanned by the a battle pass - is resolved in a heathy way like Sledgehammer was when Thunder received the conversion. 

[artc 1,119]

lilke the idea, never gunu happen tho

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

@Emeraldcat345  You see, if all those numerous Railguns I encounter in battles were Stock Railguns, there is a very high chance I would not have my Railgun module equipped 24/7. But that is not the case. They are using:

 

LCR, which gives it the damage of a Magnum or Gauss sniping shot, allowing it to one-shot medium hulls (and more than one player since it has penetration) and one-shot unprotected heavy hulls if it gets lucky. 

 

Scout, which gives it the firing rate of Thunder, except this one has enough damage to near comfortably one-shot light hulls and 2-shot heavy hulls. Fast firing rate yet retains its high impact force and has the utility of disrupting repair kits much faster than other Railguns. Stock is very likely to not one-shot medium hulls from full HP. Well, Scout can't idea, but guarantees the kill on the second shot almost 50% faster. 

 

RD, which, if lucky, can give it enough damage to semi-comfortably one-shot medium hulls and heavy hulls. And if it doesn't, you get an increase in impact force that allows you to flip Wasps at any given moment or flip medium hulls going up ramps. 

 

"DH"C, which lets them continuously fire like a Viking's Overdrive given the right situation. Fundamentally the best energy-restoration augment. Can gain many kills at a time, which Stock can't. 

 

Hyperspace Rounds, which, while relatively rare, is very unpleasant to fight against in Siege or ASL where even with 50% protection and DA, you can be one-shotted or have most of your HP taken off. 

 

[hr] 

 

Railgun has many ways to increase its damage output, which are in use every day in every battle that matters with what you're trying to solve. Why do you want to nerf Stock Railgun when its power that likely keeps some Legend Railgun players using it in MM mainly comes from the augments? 

[DestrotankAI9 1,513]

29 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

If Smoky were to remain hitscan, maybe put it down to -85% or -90%. Even then, augments are available to all ranks now. Autocannon had always been theoretically broken in the low ranks and after April 2020 we finally see it in practice there,and our expectations were wholy right. 

 

I'm interested to see what changes they make to the augments when they convert it, and to see if the Autocannon mess - whose flames were recently fanned by the a battle pass - is resolved in a heathy way like Sledgehammer was when Thunder received the conversion. 

Well that is a good point actually - Autocannon does deal substantially more damage for low Mk Smokys relative to the stock version compared with higher Mk, which was never a problem until they allowed alterations (now augments) to be available at all ranks.

Making it -85% or -90% would make it quite useless at Mk8 level, though maybe I'm wrong. But then going back to even -80% as it was before it would be still be OP as you say at low Mk, so its a hard problem to resolve.

This might be a little complicated but they could do this: For Autocannon critical shots now no longer deal fixed damage but are now regular shots with 30% more damage (compared to stock), and no damage fall-off due to range. [30% is my initial thought - maybe 35% would be better].

What this would mean is that crits for Mk1 would now be dealing 273-429 damage, and at Mk8 we would see 546-845 damage. That is compared to the current 700 and 800 damage respectively - so this would be a vast damage nerf for low Mk Autocannon smoky but only a small one for high Mk, as it should be.

This would balance it out for all Mk levels as the problem is that at low Mk crits deal almost the same damage as at high Mk, which results in absurdly high damage in the lower ranks. The only way to balance Autocannon for all ranks because of its dependancy on critical damage - without making it either overpowered at low ranks or underpowered at high ranks - would be to do something to alter the critical strike damage component.

Edited January 26, 2021 by DestrotankAI9