category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[Frylock 1,617]

Yep i knew i was gonna walk into fire when i mention this hull. XD

[Frylock 1,617]

25 minutes ago, Crossbone said:

Aside from that, I honestly think that Viking OD needs a buff.

 

Without the OD, the acceleration is the only thing that makes Viking perform good anymore.

Honesty I hope you are joking when you said that you wanted the OD to be buffed. And secondly, I suggested the acceleration nerf because it doesn't make sense to have highest speed for a medium class and have one of the highest acceleration rate. Furthermore when comparing to hunter for example, hunter is slower than viking and has a lower acceleration rate which does not make any god damn sense. Thus I can say hunters even more balanced than viking. Well exept for the fact that the od now uses jammer just like how the old hornet od used to behave. That is not the point. What Im trying to say that some of the parameters for viking needs to have some down sides like the rest of the hulls. When I see the parameters I see that the hull has way too much benefits instead of some sort of draw back.

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Frylock 1,617]

28 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Viking OD is not overpowered, bzt overused due to certain factors i'm what not gonna explain now. However, when the 70-80% of the hulls are viking, we can feel that something needs to be down. Not a bug nerf, rather a change. 

*Reading the first five words* Really disappointed 

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[Crossbone 516]

30 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Honesty I hope you are joking when you said that you wanted the OD to be buffed.

I'm actually quite serious.  But its not gonna be an insane buff. More like something that can be added to make it a bit more lethal, especially against titans dome.

 

36 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Thus I can say hunters even more balanced than viking. Well exept for the fact that the od now uses jammer just like how the old hornet od used to behave. That is not the point. What Im trying to say that some of the parameters for viking needs to have some down sides like the rest of the hulls. When I see the parameters I see that the hull has way too much benefits instead of some sort of draw back.

Viking has less weight than hunter, meaning it is far easier to knock off a Vikings aim than it is to knock off a hunters aim.

You may think that Vikings low height is an advantage, but its actually only the case against sniper shafts and maybe magnums, with things like vertical auto aim, damage indicators, red outline, gauss sniping mode, and mobiles auto shoot, there should be no reason as to why you're not hitting the Viking. Its low height is more disadvantageous than you might think, especially when your teammates are constantly going in front of you.

 

Hunters tilting or rocking ability is far better than Vikings, which helps the vertical auto aim.

 

Honestly, if Viking and hunter had the same OD whether it be the EMP or the berserker, I would choose hunter.

[Frylock 1,617]

19 minutes ago, Crossbone said:

I'm actually quite serious.  But its not gonna be an insane buff. More like something that can be added to make it a bit more lethal, especially against titans dome.

 

Viking has less weight than hunter, meaning it is far easier to knock off a Vikings aim than it is to knock off a hunters aim.

You may think that Vikings low height is an advantage, but its actually only the case against sniper shafts and maybe magnums, with things like vertical auto aim, damage indicators, red outline, gauss sniping mode, and mobiles auto shoot, there should be no reason as to why you're not hitting the Viking. Its low height is more disadvantageous than you might think, especially when your teammates are constantly going in front of you.

 

Hunters tilting or rocking ability is far better than Vikings, which helps the vertical auto aim.

 

Honestly, if Viking and hunter had the same OD whether it be the EMP or the berserker, I would choose hunter.

But then again viking has the best stability for a med hull class that is a tracked hull and the shortest hotbox. It even has one of the best turning rate along with its acceleration enough to even escape a wasp bomb well a hunter it stuck there. (One of the scenarios) plus its harder to flip viking as being a tracked hull. Furthermore, can you explain why you think vikings balanced because every match you are in there is more than half the enemy  team that use this annoying hull. Please for the love of god why you think viking's balanced. If you even have the statistics chart proving that vikings balanced with its usage. In terms viking  is still unbalanced as a hull.

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[mjmj5558 2,346]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:41 PM, MysticBlood said:

But then again viking has the best stability for a med hull class that is a tracked hull and the shortest hotbox.

Now this is not true. 

 

On 6/17/2021 at 7:23 PM, MysticBlood said:

And secondly, I suggested the acceleration nerf because it doesn't make sense to have highest speed for a medium class and have one of the highest acceleration rate. Furthermore when comparing to hunter for example, hunter is slower than viking and has a lower acceleration rate which does not make any god damn sense. Thus I can say hunters even more balanced than viking. Well exept for the fact that the od now uses jammer just like how the old hornet od used to behave. That is not the point. What Im trying to say that some of the parameters for viking needs to have some down sides like the rest of the hulls. When I see the parameters I see that the hull has way too much benefits instead of some sort of draw back.

Maybe i'm dumb, but as far as i know hunter has higher speed than viking, and all hulls have a logical speed compared to others. I belive there was an imagine in an articale made by @Viking4s (i belive), when crusaider was about to come out. That's why, changing the speed of viking would be illogical, and not needed. 

On 6/17/2021 at 7:14 PM, MysticBlood said:

Yep i knew i was gonna walk into fire when i mention this hull. XD

Just to clear few things, I rarely use viking. The simple thing is, viking OD was unchanged since 2 years, and no one complained about it ( beside Tide, he said , but i don't remember that) before the hornet nerf. After that nerf, a lot of old-hornet users started using viking, the popularity increased, and this affected it's balance. Also, everyone's using it in JGR (beside me, hehe), because it (the JGR) has immunity against almost all other ODs. So, something needs to be done, which shouldn't be a nerf, but a change to make it less powerful in certain situations, but not worse than it is now.

Edited June 21, 2021 by mjmj5558
berf yes exatly

[Crossbone 516]

32 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

But then again viking has the best stability for a med hull class that is a tracked hull and the shortest hotbox.

Actually Viking has the worst stability for medium hulls. And its low height isn't even an advantage to begin with. Hunter can shoot over some of its teammates while Viking can't even shoot over another Viking. Hunter is so much more stable than Viking, I just said that its so much harder to knock off a hunters aim.

 

39 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

It even has one of the best turning rate along with its acceleration enough to even escape a wasp bomb well a hunter it stuck there. (One of the scenarios) plus its harder to flip viking as being a tracked hull. 

Hunter has a better turning rate and lateral acceleration.

How often do you get situations where you have an opportunity to flip the enemy? You must be getting alot of them if you're even adding this point to your argument.

 

46 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Furthermore, can you explain why you think vikings balanced because every match you are in there is more than half the enemy  team that use this annoying hull. Please for the love of god why you think viking's balanced. If you even have the statistics chart proving that vikings balanced with its usage. In terms viking  is still unbalanced as a hull.

Just because you see many players in every battle using viking, doesn't mean its overpowered. All it means is that it fits the playstyle of so many players.

[fire_shoter 555]

51 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

But then again viking has the best stability for a med hull class that is a tracked hull and the shortest hotbox. It even has one of the best turning rate along with its acceleration enough to even escape a wasp bomb well a hunter it stuck there. (One of the scenarios) plus its harder to flip viking as being a tracked hull. Furthermore, can you explain why you think vikings balanced because every match you are in there is more than half the enemy  team that use this annoying hull. Please for the love of god why you think viking's balanced. If you even have the statistics chart proving that vikings balanced with its usage. In terms viking  is still unbalanced as a hull.

Lol, with viking u can barley use 2 times OD with viking and u want it to be nerfed?! Just because you dont use it. Then they should nerf your crusader and hopper, after that things will be balanced.

[Frylock 1,617]

11 minutes ago, mjmj5558 said:

Now this is not true. 

 

Mayve i'm dumb, but as far as i know hunter has higher speed than viking, and all hulls have a logical speed compared to others. I belive there was an imagine in an articale made by @Viking4s (i belive), when crusaider was about to come out. That's why, changing the speed of viking would be illogical, and not needed. 

Just to clear few things, I rarely use viking. The simple thing is, viking OD was unchanged since 2 years, and no one complained about it ( beside Tide, he said , but i don't remember that) before the hornet nerf. After that nerf, a lot of old-hornet users started using viking, the popularity increased, and this affected it's balance. Also, everyone's using it in JGR (beside me, hehe), because it has immunity against almost all other ODs. So, something needs to be done, whalich shouldn't be a berf, but a change to make it less powerful in certain situations, but not worse than it is now.

Im not saying its the best but its my fault for wording it wrong by saying best stability as a tracked hull. But its still good enough to survive. Im not saying nerf vikings speed im saying nerf its acceleration. Those are two different parameters.

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[fire_shoter 555]

1 minute ago, MysticBlood said:

Im not saying its the best but its my fault for wording it wrong by saying best stability as a tracked hull. But its still good enough to survive. Im not saying nerf vikings speed im saying nerf its acceleration. Those are two different parameters.

You must be kiddin?! Right?

[Frylock 1,617]

2 minutes ago, fire_shoter said:

Lol, with viking u can barley use 2 times OD with viking and u want it to be nerfed?! Just because you dont use it. Then they should nerf your crusader and hopper, after that things will be balanced.

I Dont call viking balanced if the usage of this hull is used by 85-90 % of the player base. And other hulls being used less commonly.

[Frylock 1,617]

3 minutes ago, fire_shoter said:

You must be kiddin?! Right?

Prove me wrong by showing me how vikings balanced. Use a stat chart if you have too. Challenge me with statistics and knowledge or even experience in battles how common you run into viking users.

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[fire_shoter 555]

Just now, MysticBlood said:

I Dont call viking balanced if the usage of this hull is used by 85-90 % of the player base. And other hulls being used less commonly.

People use it coz they like the shape of it. Only tank that looks like a real tank and it is not FLYING.

[Frylock 1,617]

3 minutes ago, fire_shoter said:

People use it coz they like the shape of it. Only tank that looks like a real tank and it is not FLYING.

I dont see as much hoppers anymore I see way more vikings than hoppers . Most of the time if i do see a hopper its either with crisis defender or trickster but other than that they are less annoying now. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by MysticBlood

[fire_shoter 555]

3 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

I Dont call viking balanced if the usage of this hull is used by 85-90 % of the player base. And other hulls being used less commonly.

If u have legacy skin on viking I suggest you to start using it. That skin is the only reason i use it. Just because of look not bcz of overdrive.

p.s I still got no legacy thunder, but if i get it someday I would never switch my combo, even if the whole enemy team is 50% and defender or crisis

[fire_shoter 555]

5 minutes ago, MysticBlood said:

Prove me wrong by showing me how vikings balanced. Use a stat chart if you have too. Challenge me with statistics and knowledge or even experience in battles how common you run into viking users.

There are many viking users, that is true. But do you know how many of them don't know how to use OD. That is just ridiculous

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I don't think a lone Viking is inherently OP. The problem lies in the fact that it is wayyyyyy overused. Not just in TJR, but in every gamemode at endgame. 

 

I would really like it if Viking wasn't the most popular hull. I would have rathered Hunter be the most popular, but with the addition of Jammer recently, I retract that. Recently they seemed to be improving the other medium hulls' Overdrives instead of needing Viking's, so it sounds like nothing worthwhile will be done about Viking for the foreseeable future. 

 

For now, I'm in favour of reducing the damage boost for non-melee turrets (except Vulcan). 

 

1 hour ago, Crossbone said:

Viking has less weight than hunter, meaning it is far easier to knock off a Vikings aim than it is to knock off a hunters aim.

You may think that Vikings low height is an advantage, but its actually only the case against sniper shafts and maybe magnums, with things like vertical auto aim, damage indicators, red outline, gauss sniping mode, and mobiles auto shoot, there should be no reason as to why you're not hitting the Viking. Its low height is more disadvantageous than you might think, especially when your teammates are constantly going in front of you.

That low stature for Viking has some serious advantages in battle. Especially now where 3 of the hitscan turrets were converted to projectiles, which now have a harder time hitting Vikings from the high ground if it's coming towards your direction. 

Fighting Vikings at melee range with Dictator is pain. And it's jarring when it's he most popular hull and you have to constantly fight against that. My Isida beam often detaches from Vikings easily due to the stature and I'm an easy kill for them. 

 

 

[alkyng 3,080]

I disagree with the nerf, most of the kills are happen from the first 3-5s. So almsotly the 7s are just useless.. I will still be killed by MM Viking-Thunder bots, they see me they click SHIFT and I die. 7s or 20s wont make a difference, I will die from first 3s.

About the nerf for Viking as a hull !  If a change was needed for Viking, it will be a buff. It have a light weight, with Viking any single projectile could ruin my aim completely. When I'm trying to kill the Juggernaut with my OD, any touch from any enemy could ruin my chance completely.

Edited June 17, 2021 by asem.harbi

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

There is one concern I have for nerfing Viking (significantly decreasing its use rate in favour of defensive/supportive Overdrives like Titan, Mammoth or Hunter).

 

With a purely offensive hull being the most popular, that would sure change the average battle fund in the battle. More kills/teamwipes are happing which generates fund nicely. Who knows, maybe significantly nerfing Viking and having a less offense-oriented gameplay may negatively affect battle funds. 

 

I just hope when the time comes to do something worthwhile about this hull, it doesn't have any unintended consequences for the rest of the game, since we've had this Viking infestation festering for years.

Edited June 17, 2021 by TheCongoSpider

[fire_shoter 555]

13 minutes ago, asem.harbi said:

I disagree with the nerf, most of the kills are happen from the first 3-5s. So almsotly the 7s are just useless.. I will still be killed by MM Viking-Thunder bots, they see me they click SHIFT and I die. 7s or 20s wont make a difference, I will die from first 3s.

About the nerf for Viking as a hull !  If a change was needed for Viking, it will be a buff. It have a light weight, with Viking any single projectile could ruin my aim completely. When I'm trying to kill the Juggernaut with my OD, and touch from any enemy could ruin my chance completely.

Especially since now everyone got AP on titans and every other hull. They see that you are gonna use OD ,so they just put dome and literally smile in front of your face. That is wasted 2 - 3 minutes of game just for one OD, coz of goddamn titan dome users, emp gausses, ap gausses, stun strikers, hopper od....And one of the most annoying turrets SHAFT WITH HEAVEY CAPACITORS WITH BOOSTER!

p.s If hunter cathes me while I am using  viking OD, I just say "U got me there, well done, I'll get you next time"

Edited June 17, 2021 by fire_shoter

[Crossbone 516]

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

That low stature for Viking has some serious advantages in battle. Especially now where 3 of the hitscan turrets were converted to projectiles, which now have a harder time hitting Vikings from the high ground if it's coming towards your direction. 

Fighting Vikings at melee range with Dictator is pain. And it's jarring when it's he most popular hull and you have to constantly fight against that. My Isida beam often detaches from Vikings easily due to the stature and I'm an easy kill for them. 

Dictator isn't really a good hull to use in the high ranks unless you plan on camping. I would just ditch it once everyone starts using supplies.

 

1 hour ago, TheCongoSpider said:

With a purely offensive hull being the most popular, that would sure change the average battle fund in the battle. More kills/teamwipes are happing which generates fund nicely. Who knows, maybe significantly nerfing Viking and having a less offense-oriented gameplay may negatively affect battle funds. 

 

I just hope when the time comes to do something worthwhile about this hull, it doesn't have any unintended consequences for the rest of the game, since we've had this Viking infestation festering for years.

Many people use Viking because:

A) it suits their playing styles.

B) its OD is versatile even though it charges slowly and doesn't last very long.

C) maybe not as essential but could also be that Viking looks nicer than the other medium hulls.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

3 minutes ago, Crossbone said:

Dictator isn't really a good hull to use in the high ranks unless you plan on camping. I would just ditch it once everyone starts using supplies.

Oh you haven't seen a potent Dictator, yet, have you? 

 

 

[LambSauce 1,884]

6 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Oh you haven't seen a potent Dictator, yet, have you? 

Dictator was always the gold hunter’s hull of choice.

Pretty mediocre otherwise.

[Crossbone 516]

10 minutes ago, TheCongoSpider said:

Oh you haven't seen a potent Dictator, yet, have you? 

 

 

However potent the dictator may be, they'd be alot more potent using any other medium hull.

[Crossbone 516]

4 hours ago, Unleash said:

I think most players are using viking because its really good for attack and defence, i agree viking od can be nerfed from 7 sec to like 5 sec. I dont think anything except that 7 sec of shooting should be changed or nerfed. 

I still think it's turret augments and some of the turrets that make Viking OD a bit unbalanced.