category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Isisda was well balanced; the issue was that the selfhealing was inflicted by DP. If an Isida on DP would just gain as much health back, as without DP, then the situation would be completely different.

Also if the healing between isidas would be less efficient then healing other tanks,

 

this would balance it out, without taking isida down

[Metaphor 538]

Re-balance = another dev mistake

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

What I've seen up to now:

 

Wasp-Hornet:

Hornet does not drift any more, drives corners like a wasp (lateral acceleration)

Speed difference from hornet M3 to wasp M3 is neglectable.

Wasp is accelerating and breaking less efficient, while the cornering advantage of wasp is gone.

yey -.-

I liked the drift-nodrift difference between wasp and hornet.. hard cornering vs hard stopping and fast acceleration. Now its gone.

 

---

 

Hunter Viking

up to now in M3 viking was the better choice, as the hunters marginal speed and agility benefits have been outweighted by vilings stabillity and acceleration. M3 turrets impact so hard, that hunters can be danced around.

Now they swapped it. They simply swapped hunter with viking specs.

Is there a serious reason for it, except to make me buy another hull?

 

--

 

Isida has weaker damage, less range and less self healing. Therefor it can sustain its beam for 9sec now instead of 7 sec in the past. The overall healingoutput and overall damageoutput per charge is increased, but as the reload is not adapted accordingly, the DPS and HPS is decreased.

I know it was overpowered by its selfhealing on drugs... but this was an issue of [selfhealing on drugs] and not an issue of the overall isida specs.

 

--

 

funny thing is I got the medic kit a month ago.

Now I have an M3 viking where I would like a hunter.. and an Isida where I doubt it makes so much fun in the future (I dont even drug with it..)

 

hmpf.

 

---

Rail-vs-Hornet/Wasp, XP/BP

A wasp/Hornet has now a slightly small chance to survive 2 railshots, but usually they should be 2shotkill.

those 2 shots take only 8.6seconds now, instead of 11sec in the past.

XP/BP will speed up considerably..

---

 

I truely like the changes of M0 M1 Railgun. The turret rotated far too slow and reloaded far too long.. the newcomers will now have a better gameplay with it. I just hope, it is not overpowered in those ranks now. Penetration was increased significantly for M0 M1, which is ok, as those beginners cant line up shots anyways. In case they fire into a group of tanks ocassionally, the benefit is now feelable.. but as it happens not too often it is ok.

Edited September 30, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[LittleWillie 3,199]

 

---

 

Hunter Viking

up to now in M3 viking was the better choice, as the hunters marginal speed and agility benefits have been outweighted by vilings stabillity and acceleration. M3 turrets impact so hard, that hunters can be danced around.

Now they swapped it. They simply swapped hunter with viking specs.

Is there a serious reason for it, except to make me buy another hull?

 

--

 

 

Agreed. The same relative capabilities exist, more or less, But they exist on opposite hulls.

 

The more I think about this change, the ,more I am deciding to play this game less often. I would have spent 200k on a m2 kit except for that bug yesterday ... now I am not going to spend a single Cry until after this change happens.

 

Which means I have no incentive to level up or to do much more than anything but complete 1 mission / day just to keep the weekly benefit coming in.  Then after the change I decide to keep playng or not ... if I am even interested in Tanki at that point.

 

Is that the goal the company really wants?

[TemurGvaradze 216]

Tanki Online is thinking much more wider now. I mean you can't really listen to players 24/7, as most of them want an easy way out. By balancing the game this way should bring up something new and different to the game.  

[thanki_tanki 13]

(for the observed reader, sorry for the double post from another thread)

 

On the topic of Isida.

 

As a weapon type it can be compared to freeze and fire: It is a short range, no impact weapon and it delivers a burst of damage instead of a shot(s).

 

HOWEVER, with freeze and fire it delivers much more damage to everyone in its range and the effect last even after the burst has been applied. With Isida you can only target one opponent at the time and the effect stops as soon as you stop "firing". The one thing that Isida had going for it was the self healing.

 

Now that self healing is practically gone (from 50% to 10% for M3+), Isida will start disappearing once players realize they have been shafted (no pun intended).

Edited October 1, 2016 by thanki_tanki

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

HOWEVER, with freeze and fire it delivers much more damage to everyone in its range and the effect last even after the burst has been applied. With Isida you can only target one opponent at the time and the effect stops as soon as you stop "firing". The one thing that Isida had going for it was the self healing.

 

Now that self healing is practically gone (from 50% to 10% for M3+), Isida will start disappearing once players realize they have been shafted (no pun intended).

This is absolutely true.. and therefore Isida will be plain dead in DM mode.

in Team modes however, the turret still gives an advantage to your _team_ (not to yourself), as it has the unique ability to heal other tanks.

 

So while freeze and firebird have more damage + unique abilities; the isida has also a valuable unique ability (flagrunners, CP campers and teamdeathmatch tanks love it, if an Isida acompanies them).

 

But given all those.. I _still_ consider it as strongly underpowered now.

 

Tanki should find a better solution to nerve the effect of Isidas beeing overpowered.

Mainly they were overpowered if on DP, as it doubled their health-gain.

And mainly they are overpowered if they come in parties of 3..4 Isisdas.. which is not changed at all with the new rebalance.

 

I once proposed to:

- disable the effect of DP on the selfhealing

- lower the rate at which one isida may heal another isisda (while healing non-isidas is kept upright).

 

But I got no comment from the game designers :(

Edited October 1, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

My proposal of a hull balance for more diversity

- keeps Wasp-Hornet diverse

- keeps Titan-Mammut diverse

- keeps the main focus of todays Hunter and Viking pilots in their respective hull, while balancing both;

- gives a clear designation and usecase to Dictator

 

Feedback is welcome... (pls give no ironic comments, but some that even I can understand ;))

and if someone can point this out to our chief balancing game designer, it would be usefull as well

 

 

 

in short:

 

 

Wasp-vs-Hornet:

Hornet remains a drifter but gets more acceleration/braking, to make it dodge more efficiently. The relative speed advantage to wasp is catched up as proposed by Tanki.

 

Hunter-Viking-Dictator

Hunter becomes a crispy drive and looses its drift. It is a little more stable then today (no dancing by longrange vulcans any more). Viking will get Hunters drift to receive a slightly nerve. But under enemy fire it stays noticeable more stable then Hunter, to balance both.

Dictator is the slowest, but still way faster then Titan. With it's gains in stabillity and rear-mounted-turret it outperforms a viking in the role of an agile defender and midfielder; while attack is only possible on small maps (attackers will use hunter and viking, as the speed makes a difference on londer driving paths).

 

Titan-vs-Mammuth

As titan can be still affected by enemies impact force, a mammuth is virtually a fort. Mammuth also outperforms Titan in pushing power massively, so that it can push its way thourhg literaly anything. Titan in retun is a little bit more agile (speed and turning). So those two should be balaced as well.

 

 

 

 

In detail

 

 

 

You will find only numbers for speed.

Turning rate and stability are given as rating, to visualize the differnces between the tanks.

This table is intended to give a general idea how a diversed balance could look like; I would not be able to give figures without decent tests (and I bet the game designer has run a lot of tests with all his sliders in the past weeks :) )

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[dan146_tanker 770]

So let me tell you guys how this rebalance is going to go down. I'm gonna predict the future:

Everyone in the general chat starts saying how they absulotely looove this new update. I say one bad thing about it, and I'm now the most hated in the entire server. I give up cause nobody listens and go to a different server. I then log into the forum. Only about 20% of people hate the new update. That's most of the people that hate supplies too. (Just thought I should point that out).

A FEW WEEKS LATER:

The devs make their decision. While I'm fast asleep, the devs pull the switch and boom! The update is in place. The next morning I wake up, have my breakfast brush my teeth, have a shower. Then I go online to Tanki Online. The first thing I see is everyone rioting about how bad the update is. In fact its SO BAD, that the chat had to be stopped in almost every server for five minutes giving over 30 people one day bans in less then 15 minutes. And 25% of the Tanki population gets reduced. The rest of Tanki complains for weeks, and weeks, until eventually more people start to leave. Its the middle of the day and Tanki only has 35k people online. More people start to leave, but after that nothing. That's it another horrible update and 35k people left. And all because... well actually its because of everyone. Yes its the devs fault, yes its the players fault, yes its basically everyone's fault. Why is it everyone's fault? Well here's the answer. The devs came up with another ''brilliant'' idea that they just have to implant. And its a new record, only took them 5 minutes to come up with this one.

Now as for the players... No one did anything. Everyone sat there saying: ''Oh its such a good update''. So when this update hits... I will go to every single person and say ''I told you so'' because I did. This update will destroy Tanki. And before you start saying how wrong I am, ask yourself this. Has Tanki ever made an update that doesn't benefit them? This update, what's in it for them? More money from buyers? Ask yourself, what's in it for them?

[Thekillerpenguin 1,731]

Has Tanki ever made an update that doesn't benefit them? This update, what's in it for them? More money from buyers? Ask yourself, what's in it for them?

I figure that's kind of how a business works. For a F2P game like Tanki, they need to pull in cash while at the same time retaining their players. Most game developers would be unwilling to implement updates that would decrease their cash flow, indeed many games these days have micro-transactions to increase profit (many console games have those now). The thing about F2P games is that there is no money to be made from sales (because it's free), and the only way for developers to make money is through tons of micro-transactions (usually incentivized with gameplay benefits), which is essentially the whole deal with buying crystals/premium/alteration rentals.

 

There is a fine balance between between promoting buyers and not neglecting free players. Your mileage may vary regarding how much that scale is leaning to the left side, but quite frankly I can understand why their recent decisions would be like that from a business perspective. I'm guessing that the economy isn't exactly peachy these days.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Especially if an economy is not very peachy, it is quite risky to act like that.

 

 

Changes are easy here.

We don't talk car business, where changing a car (selling it before planned and searching a new one) leads the ownsers to face serious work and financial regrets.

We don't talk TV business, where changing my TV (selling my TV and purchasing a new one) leads to a loss of money.

 

We talk online game business.. where all that the players have to do is to ask their friends what they play; create an account at another game and start there. And there are plently of opportunities around to do so.

So.. taking care of your customer base is maybe far more cruicial then for companies like Samsung with their TVs. If I am not happy with their TV, I have paid it already and I have it home, and it last for 2..4 years. THEN I have to decide about something else.. but here in tanki decisions are taken much faster. Also the players are more interconnected then customers.

Actually almost everything here points to keeping customers happy, instead of sqiching them like lemons..

 

 

 

 

btw I have good hopes for the balance; just the Isida self healing nerve (target missed as if noone analised the real problem) and the Viking-Hunter-exchange (looks like a pure money source) is pretty much a clap in the face..

Edited October 1, 2016 by BlackWasp777

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I figure that's kind of how a business works. For a F2P game like Tanki, they need to pull in cash while at the same time retaining their players. Most game developers would be unwilling to implement updates that would decrease their cash flow, indeed many games these days have micro-transactions to increase profit (many console games have those now). The thing about F2P games is that there is no money to be made from sales (because it's free), and the only way for developers to make money is through tons of micro-transactions (usually incentivized with gameplay benefits), which is essentially the whole deal with buying crystals/premium/alteration rentals.

 

There is a fine balance between between promoting buyers and not neglecting free players. Your mileage may vary regarding how much that scale is leaning to the left side, but quite frankly I can understand why their recent decisions would be like that from a business perspective. I'm guessing that the economy isn't exactly peachy these days.

O agree entirely. What concerns me is the sense of no real plan. Tanki is just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks.As a result they are competing with themselves for the same gamer dollar. Now you can buy all sorts of things for cash and for crystals. But you can also buy  crytals for cash. Then ther are things like double crytal cards and sales that add to the shopper's bargain-shopping efforts.

 

But all this is taking place during a time when they are introducing alterations, changing the amount of supplies use, and announcing a massive re-balalncing. This uncertainty puts a chilling effect on doing business with this company. A confusing shopping situation is made worse because now you dont know what you are buying. 

 

The more I think about it, the wiser it seems to buy absolutely nothing until after this new patch settles out.

[sherrylin257 7]

what are you talking about?

[dan146_tanker 770]

I figure that's kind of how a business works. For a F2P game like Tanki, they need to pull in cash while at the same time retaining their players. Most game developers would be unwilling to implement updates that would decrease their cash flow, indeed many games these days have micro-transactions to increase profit (many console games have those now). The thing about F2P games is that there is no money to be made from sales (because it's free), and the only way for developers to make money is through tons of micro-transactions (usually incentivized with gameplay benefits), which is essentially the whole deal with buying crystals/premium/alteration rentals.

 

There is a fine balance between between promoting buyers and not neglecting free players. Your mileage may vary regarding how much that scale is leaning to the left side, but quite frankly I can understand why their recent decisions would be like that from a business perspective. I'm guessing that the economy isn't exactly peachy these days.

Has Tanki ever considered making an offline game as well as an online one? It will be hard at first but they could either put in game consoles (like WOT) or just make it available to download the offline version, (but you have to buy it first) Personally I would do both if it was my choice, it would help Tanki get more money. But for this you guys need to make a plan, and take your time implementing this idea, if of course you want to do it. Make an Offline Campaign for Tanki or something. Just ideas that could get you guys money. :)

[Terrible_the_cool 0]

Anyone else anticipating the new Rocket launcher they announced? I am definately excited, because I have been saving up for it lately. However, im concerned that it will put the game out of balance. If the rocket behavior is akin to normal rockets, then fast or highly menuverable tanks will have no problem avoiding them, thus making them a waste of crystals. If the rocket behavior is akin to homing rockets, nothing can avoid it, especially if the rockets, being explosives im assuming, will have an extremely high damage output, making them completely OP 

[LoganFranlkin171998 69]

Increase shaft damage for arcade mode

Its weak. Even with double damage it hardly does a thing and it's a SNIPER. Seriously.

[LoganFranlkin171998 69]

At such an early rank, the after burn makes M1 Firebird too op and irritates me and SO many people. It needs to be bumped up a few ranks since it's WAY too powerful.

[Maf 32,300]

Increase shaft damage for arcade mode

Its weak. Even with double damage it hardly does a thing and it's a SNIPER. Seriously.

Topic merged

[Killieman 36]

are the changes  (told about in vlog)  final,

or is it just a estimation how they will be tested and after that they choose what happens?

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

^whatever comes "soon" is usually a little bit changed and tweaked some weeks later.

 

I mean.. can you imagine the firebirds with the shortened reload and the heatup-alternation? Crispy..

Or the freeze.. if I got it right the max.Dmg.Range is 10m; with alternation 20m.. which means it delivers full damage at almost it's whole path. While the damage was increased? And if I interpret the Freezing time according to the old freeze wiki entry, it will freeze you to standstill (!) within 0,75 seconds (!). I always wanted a more freezing freeze M3.. but this could be overkill. I hope I got that freeze parameter wrong.

[dan146_tanker 770]

Smoky needs to be nerfed not rail not thunder smoky!

[Heles 9,220]

Got to pay extra cry for my vulcan then -__-

[Snowy21561 0]

I guess there are loads of guns that are really overpowered but they have really slow reload times which can give you some advantage. If you can, try getting paints which provide protection against fire- it can really help!

[Strikechard123 241]

Vulcan needs a nerf. Its DPS is too high, higher than smoky and thunder, it can shoot forever like twins, it has insane impact force, and the overheat damage doesn't do a lot if the vulcan user has a paint against firebird and a mammoth, or an isida behind him. Also, the turret should turn slower. In this update, they are going to give it a damage buff, barrels won't take a long time to start firing and stopping. It will do even more damage at a distance. What's wrong with tanki online??!!

[The-Operator219 1,929]

And they're reducing the impact force everyone complains about. Now you should have no problem with it.