category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[enri_chill 265]

Problem is all those tankers shifted to Titan. It's the new Viking. Now Titan is EVERYWHERE.

 

*said approximately a week before the great Titan nerf of 2017 :ph34r:

.

I switched to the titan after the rebalance for sure. I felt stupid getting destroyed in two shots in my viking/hunter. I still love the hornet/wasp however. The speed advantage is notable in large boards.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Viking outclasses Hunter/Dictator, and Titan outclasses Mammoth.

At M2 Viking was always best Medium Hull.

 

But now at M3? 

Not so much. Since they swapped Viking/Hunter - Viking is no longer best. The little boost in speed does not make up for loss of stability.

[XT_Journey2016 3]

BALANCE UPDATE SUCKS!!!

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I find it irritating when I have almost destroyed an enemy and they press "1". They then repeat this tactic constantly throughout the rest of the battle, as do the rest of their team. The level of buying on this game has become ridiculous now.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I switched to the titan after the rebalance for sure. I felt stupid getting destroyed in two shots in my viking/hunter. I still love the hornet/wasp however. The speed advantage is notable in large boards.

I was close to doing the same. I had the option to buy titan in the sales but I went with firebird instead. In the next sale I'll get railgun or twins.

 

I feel like I should aim to have as much fun as possible, which to me means using different weapons. Besides, I already invested a lot of crystals into viking and there is no guarentee than titan will let you survive for longer. A short blast of firebird can kill titan M4 in seconds (unless supplies are enabled... then firebird is useless!).

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

I was close to doing the same. I had the option to buy titan in the sales but I went with firebird instead. In the next sale I'll get railgun or twins.

 

I feel like I should aim to have as much fun as possible, which to me means using different weapons. Besides, I already invested a lot of crystals into viking and there is no guarentee than titan will let you survive for longer. A short blast of firebird can kill titan M4 in seconds (unless supplies are enabled... then firebird is useless!).

Yes, because the RK resets the freezing effect and the afterburn. Good news that Hazel said they are going to buff Freeze and Firebird in the near future.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Good news that Hazel said they are going to buff Freeze and Firebird in the near future.

Nowadays in poly cp the team with more fire (M2 Alteration) & freezers (no alteration needed) will win the battle.

If fire and freere will be buffed, then I don't know what will happen there.

I know that it is not wise to classify a turret by it's performance on a certain map.. but this is one of the most common maps around. This will be interresting.

 

All I can think off at the moment is to make stock-fire stronger, while not increasing the performance of fire with an M2 alteraion.

[Brokkolo 43]

Nowadays in poly cp the team with more fire (M2 Alteration) & freezers (no alteration needed) will win the battle.

If fire and freere will be buffed, then I don't know what will happen there.

I know that it is not wise to classify a turret by it's performance on a certain map.. but this is one of the most common maps around. This will be interresting.

 

All I can think off at the moment is to make stock-fire stronger, while not increasing the performance of fire with an M2 alteraion.

Team with more thunders usually wins battle. They can do 700-1500 damage per shot there, when enemies taking over point

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

Team with more thunders usually wins battle. They can do 700-1500 damage per shot there, when enemies taking over point

interresting..I've seen it differently.

 

Two firebirds (+alteration) take out a team of enemy 4 point-cappers easily, so that the others secure the point and it works. If they have 2+2 firebirds on mediums, then the additional 2 fires wander around and take out the camping thunders (not the one on the ramps, but all others).

Edited March 12, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[misafeco 713]

Camping Thunders are absolutely useless in Polygon CP. Thunder can be the best if it's used correctly.

-Kill everyone near the point

-Catch point

-Fight from the pit

-Die

-Start again

[5HADOW 249]

Camping Thunders are absolutely useless in Polygon CP.

As someone who camps with Thunder, I disagree. I camp on that little path under the ramp and it has a good view of the point and I can usually just sit there and keep shooting for a while before anyone on the enemy team even tries to kill me. I hate going into the point with Thunder because of the plethora of Firebirds and Freezes. I prefer to play support with Thunder, using the splash damage to weaken the horde of enemies so my teammates can clean up the remains and cap the point easy. I usually have a K/D of around 2.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

actually the k/d rate is no key to poly cp.. but to use a thunder as a camper is something that I can agree on in poly cp.

Thunder's self damage is a major drawback if the thunder moves to the point.. the firebirds and freezers are better off to do so.

Thunder should survive as long as possible to have a long active-time with the gun; and seize a position from where it can take the point under serious and constant fire.

 

Of course it is not usefull if you have too many camping thunders and noone cares for the point. But to have two camping thunders (that move if necessary) or one thunder and one striker, is a usefull thing in that map and gamemode.

 

Still usually the team with more firebirds and freezers wins. They can simply clean you out of the point area so fast..

[misafeco 713]

As someone who camps with Thunder, I disagree. I camp on that little path under the ramp and it has a good view of the point and I can usually just sit there and keep shooting for a while before anyone on the enemy team even tries to kill me. I hate going into the point with Thunder because of the plethora of Firebirds and Freezes. I prefer to play support with Thunder, using the splash damage to weaken the horde of enemies so my teammates can clean up the remains and cap the point easy. I usually have a K/D of around 2.

I you don't go to the point, your teammates take more enemy fire, so they die faster = less point cap. It's bad for the team.

 

I never try to kill campers (only if there is no other enemy tank in sight). I kill those who try to take away the point from us. The goal is to keep the point. I don't care if I die, respawn and go to point again. I play with Vulcan so I have some time to shoot at Firebirds/Freezes before they can attack me. And I'm ALWAYS top 1-3 position in a (usually no-drug) Poly CP game.

 

You camp = you lose. Try the attacking strategy and you'll see how much more effective it is. I used to camp when I was at your rank so I know what I'm talking about.

[misafeco 713]

actually the k/d rate is no key to poly cp.. but to use a thunder as a camper is something that I can agree on in poly cp.

Thunder's self damage is a major drawback if the thunder moves to the point.. the firebirds and freezers are better off to do so.

Thunder should survive as long as possible to have a long active-time with the gun; and seize a position from where it can take the point under serious and constant fire.

 

Of course it is not usefull if you have too many camping thunders and noone cares for the point. But to have two camping thunders (that move if necessary) or one thunder and one striker, is a usefull thing in that map and gamemode.

 

Still usually the team with more firebirds and freezers wins. They can simply clean you out of the point area so fast..

I used to camp with my old (much stronger) Vulcan, then I realized it's much better for my team if I attack constantly.

 

The kill number is identical in both cases, but you die less if you camp, which means your teammates will die faster.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

I used to camp with my old (much stronger) Vulcan, then I realized it's much better for my team if I attack constantly.

 

The kill number is identical in both cases, but you die less if you camp, which means your teammates will die faster.

You can not compare that by kills; he kill number is not important.

It's more about the damage that you deal.

And your teammates do not die faster if you can watch their backs.

 

You take 12sec to spawn, so your turret is "out of the game" for 12sec. If those 12sec you are no help at all to your team.

So if you play a cycle of [12sec for attack+die + 12sec for respawn] you can utilize your damage potential only for 50% (max, most likekly a bit less).

If you camp in a clever position and also move your tank if the enemies adapt to your line of fire, then you maybe play a cycle of [30sec for constant shooting + die + 12sec for respawn]. You can utilize 71% of your damage potential. And all those firebirds and freezers that go to the point constantly will survive much longer, if you keep hitting their enemies hard, instead of respawning.

 

 

The points you score may be the same (compared to constant attacking) as a camper misses the score by capping the point.

 

 

--

now pls don't take me like "I love camping in CP", because the best way to loose a CP game is to have 6 campers in a team of 8 -.-

But it truely makes sense to have some of them + some closerangers.

 

I play poly-cp with Twins, and even in the time when I did not deal self-damage, I found it more effective (more score, more point-caps) if I do not rush to the point, but camp within the circle of houses and keep hitting most of the enemies, then moving in for the kill and capping the point; instad of just driving over and getting toasted by some alterated toasting device.

Nowadays with Twins splash it sometimes works even better.

Edited March 12, 2017 by BlackWasp777

[r_I_already_won0 2,339]

 

All I can think off at the moment is to make stock-fire stronger, while not increasing the performance of fire with an M2 alteraion.

yes that is a given obviously...m2 alt will not be buffed while stock will be, by adding in a new negative for the alt or such.

[5HADOW 249]

I don't care if I die, respawn and go to point again.

I hate dying with Thunder because it feels like the game always purposely makes me respawn right next to a Firebird, or makes a Freeze respawn right behind me, leaving me completely defenseless.

[Tani_S 736]

@BlackWasp

full ack! I see it exactly like you. The same thing is to be applied for Arena CP where it is better to stay aside and not go to the Point when u are the only Thunder in the team. I actually hate it if team mates force this one guy to go to point as it doesn't make sense at all. The tactic of splash damage campers is especially then useful if the team is already rather dominating.

[misafeco 713]

You can not compare that by kills; he kill number is not important.

It's more about the damage that you deal.

And your teammates do not die faster if you can watch their backs.

 

You take 12sec to spawn, so your turret is "out of the game" for 12sec. If those 12sec you are no help at all to your team.

So if you play a cycle of [12sec for attack+die + 12sec for respawn] you can utilize your damage potential only for 50% (max, most likekly a bit less).

If you camp in a clever position and also move your tank if the enemies adapt to your line of fire, then you maybe play a cycle of [30sec for constant shooting + die + 12sec for respawn]. You can utilize 71% of your damage potential. And all those firebirds and freezers that go to the point constantly will survive much longer, if you keep hitting their enemies hard, instead of respawning.

 

 

The points you score may be the same (compared to constant attacking) as a camper misses the score by capping the point.

 

 

--

now pls don't take me like "I love camping in CP", because the best way to loose a CP game is to have 6 campers in a team of 8 -.-

But it truely makes sense to have some of them + some closerangers.

 

I play poly-cp with Twins, and even in the time when I did not deal self-damage, I found it more effective (more score, more point-caps) if I do not rush to the point, but camp within the circle of houses and keep hitting most of the enemies, then moving in for the kill and capping the point; instad of just driving over and getting toasted by some alterated toasting device.

Nowadays with Twins splash it sometimes works even better.

You made some good points, but I still don't agree.

 

1, It's much more effective to slow down the enemy attack if you're inside the pit, as you can block your enemies with your tank, even after dying. I usually move outside after I took the point, and I try to hunt down the faster hulls, to make our control longer.

 

2, Dealing more damage (=more kills) is not that important. Controlling the point is. You can camp if the enemy is unable to get the point. In every other situation it's your duty to cap inmediately and keep the point as long as possible.

Red team: 630 kills

Blue team: 601 kills

 

Red team: 1137 kills

Blue team: 1073 kills

 

The differences are insignificant (the teams had the same firepower), yet our team won by a bigger amount of points.

 

 

@BlackWasp

full ack! I see it exactly like you. The same thing is to be applied for Arena CP where it is better to stay aside and not go to the Point when u are the only Thunder in the team. I actually hate it if team mates force this one guy to go to point as it doesn't make sense at all. The tactic of splash damage campers is especially then useful if the team is already rather dominating.

You hit the nail in the head. If your team dominates, you can camp without any consequences. If the other team dominates, or the match is balanced, you're near useless.

[misafeco 713]

I hate dying with Thunder because it feels like the game always purposely makes me respawn right next to a Firebird, or makes a Freeze respawn right behind me, leaving me completely defenseless.

Your teammates can still help you out.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

1, It's much more effective to slow down the enemy attack if you're inside the pit, as you can block your enemies with your tank, even after dying. I usually move outside after I took the point, and I try to hunt down the faster hulls, to make our control longer. 

2, Dealing more damage (=more kills) is not that important. Controlling the point is. You can camp if the enemy is unable to get the point. In every other situation it's your duty to cap inmediately and keep the point as long as possible.

 

The differences are insignificant (the teams had the same firepower), yet our team won by a bigger amount of points.

Thanks for the screenshots and statistics. From adding up all points scored and the fund I would estimate that about half of the players (half of the scored points) have left, which makes the stats hard to evaluate.

 

Sure controlling the point is relevant, but controlling it from the the pit/ from the point is kind of hard. You sit there like a sitting duck right on a plate. Same as you, I also use to leave the point once it's capped, but I (as twins) try to fire on the tanks that aproach the point in order to chisel them down, so that their time at the point is shortened. Each time I sit there, a firebird comes around and toasts me in seconds.

 

If the enemy controls the point, I would just die if I go to the point directly. I am more efficient if I take care that my teammates that go point (with their medium hulls and shortranged turrets) endure long enough. If needed I go to support them there.

But the moment is kind of hard to describe, because you have to take the point as a team (not as a single tank) and you have to find the moment when most of the enemy shortrangers are down. There is no point to cap the point with 4 of my teams tanks, when 2 enemy firebirds take us all down in seconds, and then they have all the time they need.

 

This is why the team with more clever firebirds wins today (my original claim), because they can regain the point or kill an enemy capture attempt - my observation), while the splashdamage turrets are better off to support them.

[BlackWasp777 4,498]

@BlackWasp

full ack! I see it exactly like you. The same thing is to be applied for Arena CP where it is better to stay aside and not go to the Point when u are the only Thunder in the team. I actually hate it if team mates force this one guy to go to point as it doesn't make sense at all. The tactic of splash damage campers is especially then useful if the team is already rather dominating.

ty ;)

Arena is a tough topic.. because there are only 4 players per team.

 

imho good arena players cap the point and then they spread out. Each one moves out to a different "corner" and this has two effects:

- shortrangers can not make use of their ability to attack multiple enemies

- enemy splash damage tanks can not make use of their splash

 

while the team that controls the point and spread out

- their closerangers can make use of their ability to attack multiple enemies

- splash damage campers can excel

- they can focus the fire on single tanks and take them out effectively

 

 

As you said the camper is very usefull if you dominate. But if your team urgently needs to cap the point, then a pure camper with splash damage is not of much help. IMHO it's better if the camper deals 2/3 of damage to most enemies, and then moves for a cap.. his mates respawn while he is beeing killed and can finish off and cap.

 

 

Of course you can use the same in polygon, but there it's kind of hard as there are so many enemies, and people tend to shoot back the guy that shot them, instead of focus their fire on the most important enemy.

[misafeco 713]

Thanks for the screenshots and statistics. From adding up all points scored and the fund I would estimate that about half of the players (half of the scored points) have left, which makes the stats hard to evaluate.

 

Sure controlling the point is relevant, but controlling it from the the pit/ from the point is kind of hard. You sit there like a sitting duck right on a plate. Same as you, I also use to leave the point once it's capped, but I (as twins) try to fire on the tanks that aproach the point in order to chisel them down, so that their time at the point is shortened. Each time I sit there, a firebird comes around and toasts me in seconds.

 

If the enemy controls the point, I would just die if I go to the point directly. I am more efficient if I take care that my teammates that go point (with their medium hulls and shortranged turrets) endure long enough. If needed I go to support them there.

But the moment is kind of hard to describe, because you have to take the point as a team (not as a single tank) and you have to find the moment when most of the enemy shortrangers are down. There is no point to cap the point with 4 of my teams tanks, when 2 enemy firebirds take us all down in seconds, and then they have all the time they need.

 

This is why the team with more clever firebirds wins today (my original claim), because they can regain the point or kill an enemy capture attempt - my observation), while the splashdamage turrets are better off to support them.

Good points. We should make an experiment about camping in Polygon CP.

 

I actually don't really go outside after capping, just find a good position to shoot from and block the incoming enemy. Focus on the Freeze/Firebird type first, killing them as fast as possible, then kill anyone who's left. It's important in my strategy that I stay near the point zone (so even if an enemy reaches me, it won't start to turn the point to the other color before I die because we cancel eachother out. Of course Twins don't have that much range, so they have to move out, but for me (Vulcan) it's ideal as I can reach most of the map from the pit. I guess the same applies to Thunders.

 

I find it especially important to take enemy fire, because it takes a lot of time to kill my Mammoth. I save time for everyone else.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Good points. We should make an experiment about camping in Polygon CP.

 

I actually don't really go outside after capping, just find a good position to shoot from and block the incoming enemy. Focus on the Freeze/Firebird type first, killing them as fast as possible, then kill anyone who's left. It's important in my strategy that I stay near the point zone (so even if an enemy reaches me, it won't start to turn the point to the other color before I die because we cancel eachother out. Of course Twins don't have that much range, so they have to move out, but for me (Vulcan) it's ideal as I can reach most of the map from the pit. I guess the same applies to Thunders.

 

I find it especially important to take enemy fire, because it takes a lot of time to kill my Mammoth. I save time for everyone else.

As an Isida with Hammer/Firebird/Freeze protection I hide in the lower tunnel. Hopefully a "Fat-boy" Twins is at top of ramp so it can prevent opponents from taking Point - and - so I can rack up a high score continuously healing the 'immovable object'.

 

Even better in a no-supply battle...

[misafeco 713]

As an Isida with Hammer/Firebird/Freeze protection I hide in the lower tunnel. Hopefully a "Fat-boy" Twins is at top of ramp so it can prevent opponents from taking Point - and - so I can rack up a high score continuously healing the 'immovable object'.

 

Even better in a no-supply battle...

Controlling the tunnel is extremely useful in a close match. On my alt I have Mammoth-Firebird. The best strategy is to jump straight into the tunnel. I have no speed so it doesn't make sense to go after enemies. Wait inside the tunnel instead, and kill everyone who is in reach/turn the point back to our color.