category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

Sure you're allowed to have an opinion.

 

And I happen to disagree with it.  Doesn't need much skill?  Try aiming and killing targets with it.

 

You say shaft is balanced, even though it has unlimited ammo.

Shaft my opinion needs only slightly slower reload in short range. About smoky: Projectile speed is instant so it's isn't too hard to aim. Basic turret turning skills

[Akame 4,578]

Shaft my opinion needs only slightly slower reload in short range. About smoky: Projectile speed is instant so it's isn't too hard to aim. Basic turret turning skills

I'm assuming by 'short range' you mean arcade mode, let me compare at m3+ (m4) level (ignoring alterations for all comparisons), Shaft hits arcades of 660-750 and has a reload time of 2.1s between shots.

Shaft arcade DPS = 314-357 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 349

 

Let's compare this with a default turret, smoky m3+ (m4), smoky hits 420-640, BUT has a 20% chance of hitting 770, so approximately 1 in 5 shots are critical hits. so considering this it hits 522-666 and has a reload time of 1.5s.

Smoky DPS (with approximated critical) = 348-444 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 396

 

 

Next, the classic common thunder, at m3+ (m4), this thunder hits 750-1020 with a reload of 2.4s. This turret has splash but lets ignore that for now.

Thunder DPS = 313-425 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 369

 

Since we have done most mid range turrets in comparison, let's also take in account Hammer m3+ (m4), 3 shot barrel, damage per clip = 3240, adding 2 time delays between clips and total reload, we get a time of 1.8+1.8+5=8.6s.

Hammer DPS = 377 (3sf)

 

Now, i'm gonna let you see these results and tell me why exactly shaft needs a longer reload time when it simply it's arcade mode shot has a DPS lower than all these mid range turrets. Remember I have not taken alterations into account, but even so, alterations are still mostly adding reload time for some more damage.

 

Next time you wish to say something about any turret, please include factual data to relay it to everyone.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Akame

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

I'm assuming by 'short range' you mean arcade mode, let me compare at m3+ (m4) level (ignoring alterations for all comparisons), Shaft hits arcades of 660-750 and has a reload time of 2.1s between shots.

Shaft arcade DPS = 314-357 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 349

 

Let's compare this with a default turret, smoky m3+ (m4), smoky hits 420-640, BUT has a 20% chance of hitting 770, so approximately 1 in 5 shots are critical hits. so considering this it hits 522-666 and has a reload time of 1.5s.

Smoky DPS (with approximated critical) = 348-444 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 396

 

 

Next, the classic common thunder, at m3+ (m4), this thunder hits 750-1020 with a reload of 2.4s. This turret has splash but lets ignore that for now.

Thunder DPS = 313-425 (3sf) ; Median DPS ~ 369

 

Since we have done most mid range turrets in comparison, let's also take in account Hammer m3+ (m4), 3 shot barrel, damage per clip = 3240, adding 2 time delays between clips and total reload, we get a time of 1.8+1.8+5=8.6s.

Hammer DPS = 377 (3sf)

 

Now, i'm gonna let you see these results and tell me why exactly shaft needs a longer reload time when it simply it's arcade mode shot has a DPS lower than all these mid range turrets. Remember I have not taken alterations into account, but even so, alterations are still mostly adding reload time for some more damage.

 

Next time you wish to say something about any turret, please include factual data to relay it to everyone.

I wanted to write it fast, but if Tanki won't do anything I will write more

[Akame 4,578]

I wanted to write it fast, but if Tanki won't do anything I will write more

It is essential to show tanki what you mean, also comparing values to support your statement/argument on why your proposal is neccesary or why you think the current stats are too low or high, with words only and no evidence, tanki have nothing to go on, this thread is may be a discussion, but only saying something is strong or weak wont prove or disprove anything.

[wolverine848 13,097]

I'm not sure if you are trying to imply that Shaft is the most OP turret?

Not at all.

 

Was a rebuttal to fact that smoky might be OP because it has unlimited ammo. It's hardly the only weapon with "unlimited ammo".

[wolverine848 13,097]

Shaft my opinion needs only slightly slower reload in short range. About smoky: Projectile speed is instant so it's isn't too hard to aim. Basic turret turning skills

Twins projectile speed is relatively slow - does that make it a "skilled" turret?

 

Do you have lots of experience with smoky - from another account maybe?

[ThomasTheDankEngine2 141]

Twins projectile speed is relatively slow - does that make it a "skilled" turret?

 

Do you have lots of experience with smoky - from another account maybe?

I played in 2011 with it, but I don't remember a lot. I tried it on low acc (WO2) and it wrecks without even trying and without drugging in random battles. About twins I talked in my longer post.

[Akame 4,578]

Twins and vulcan is what i consider to be unlimited output turrets due to their ability to keep on firing, they are only really deady in very open areas, you can kinda see my profile, but everyone knows that twins is mostly a defence type turret while smoky is an offensive and counter type, if you see my profile I have used twins quiet a lot more as I am a defensive player but twins may be easy to use, but dont forget the legendary Rock Legacy module which almost every old Legend has, this is what limits the number of twins being used in the game, in the end the overall game balance is also dependant on the modules that are being used. Most common modules around marshal used to be 'emerald' types so they had thunder rail and twins protection, as you can see smoky would perform naturally better than twins or thunder too. Game balance is a pretty complex thing to talk about in the end as it does constantly change as us tankers adjust to different styles of playing.

[LittleWillie 3,199]

I played in 2011 with it, but I don't remember a lot. I tried it on low acc (WO2) and it wrecks without even trying and without drugging in random battles. About twins I talked in my longer post.

Smoky requires usually 4 shots to kill even light hulls, 5 shots perhaps if using the impact alteration., Each shot must be aimed by eye and this has to be done on ehile you are on the move shooting at a moving target. But it is not enough to just hit the tank. You have to aim at a specific spot on the tank in order to throw off its aim. 

 

If Smnoky was the noob OP turret that misguided people claim, then the battles would be full of smokys. Just like battles were full of 50% self-heal isidas. Player flock to the "uber" equipment. But Smoky is not anywhere near the most popular turret because many other turrets are easier to use. 

[Akame 4,578]

Smoky requires usually 4 shots to kill even light hulls, 5 shots perhaps if using the impact alteration., Each shot must be aimed by eye and this has to be done on ehile you are on the move shooting at a moving target. But it is not enough to just hit the tank. You have to aim at a specific spot on the tank in order to throw off its aim. 

 

If Smnoky was the noob OP turret that misguided people claim, then the battles would be full of smokys. Just like battles were full of 50% self-heal isidas. Player flock to the "uber" equipment. But Smoky is not anywhere near the most popular turret because many other turrets are easier to use. 

Don't forget modules, I myself carry a 50% module against Smoky/Thunder/Rail, so pretty much such turrets become less used in battles after realising that many have protections

Edited May 17, 2017 by Akame

[gerry89 160]

I will talk about whole game balance (turrets). It's broken now. I will start with in order of how they are listed in my garage.

 

Ricoshet: I know this turret since 2011. On my this account I got 84 hours with it and m3 version. All I can say about it's balanced if without alteration (Minus-Field stabilization) it's avarage and skill based turret. Alteration has way too big projectile speed so if it gets nerf 1 problem less. About it's impact force I will talk later.

 

Railgun: I know this turret since 2011 too, but then I didn't played that much with it. On this my account I got 461 hours (using hornet almost all the time) with it. My railgun is m3. It's balanced now, but damage could be buffed a little. Old railgun (can be back with alteration) was better, but both are pretty balanced.

 

Hammer: I don't know this turret for years. I bought it this winter. I got 64 hours with it. I can't say too much about it, but it's range is a little too big. It's short range turret, not mid-range.

 

Firebird: I got this turret m1, 98 hours with it. I used to use it a lot some time ago. It's balanced now, but my little suggestion is that it could have colored flames as in 2011 because it was really nice xD

 

Freeze: I got this turret m1 and not much hours with it on my this account. I will buy soon m3, because it's nice turret. I used it a lot in 2011. It's balanced now. It's not overpowered as some people say.

 

Isida: I got this turret m1, 54 hours with it on this acc. It was my favorite turret in 2011. Now thanks to Tanki, it's totally broken turret. Twins was (next turret I will discuss) big problem, but Tanki fixed that problem by making twins less problem. Isida m1 with 4/10 MUs deals SAME DAMGE as firebird m3 (almost isida m1 4/10 668 DPS*, fire m3 669 DPS)? I understand it attacks 1 tank at the same time, but that's problem. For example I will take m4s because math with them is easier. m4 isida kills m4 light hull in 2 seconds, medium in 3 seconds, 4 seconds for heavy hull m4??? It would take 4 shots to kill heavy hull m4 with railgun m4 and I think that's not fair even it can be done in long range. I got low rank account. About 50% low rankers uses isida. It used to be twins instead, but it shows how bufing other turret makes OP (Overpowered) turrets to nothing. I used to like playing Island CTF 3v3, but now it's not fun playing against 3 isidas m3, which on top of already OP damage HEALS each other faster than you can kill 1 of them. Healing per second bigger than fire or freeze DPS. What ways players should destroy isida which is healing other isida? Answer is isida. Isida m2 is early m2 - bigger damage than fire or freeze m3. That's something wrong and isida m1 in m3 battles prooves that again. Let's remember old isida. What was that? It was respected support turret. The only ingame turret which can heal other teammates, don't do insane damage, can do self heal. As some developer said "it wasn't fun playing against isida with self heal", it was heaven compared to isida today. Isida now is most offensive turret. My opinion it should have self heal back and nerfed damage or keep as it is today and remove healing ability completly or make it alteration. Me + ricoshet m3 + viking m3 have no chance agaisnt isida m3 viking m3 which got healed, by their teammate and that teammate got healed by their teammate. I hope Tanki will do something about this problem, because some of their action really makes think about quiting this game. I will ignore fact that it's Pay2Win game, I understand that we get play for free, and thing that developers totally don't care about some players leaving who don't pay for them, but you shoud do poll about isida. It's real problem.

DPS* - Damage Per Second

 

Twins: I don't play this just cause it's OP. I would better lose in fair battle than win in unfair one. Maybe I will buy this turret, but only for minigames or parkour. This turret needs no skills at all. All you need is a brick on a keyboard. I don't think that adding spalsh damage nerfed it because someone who uses turret turning controls can do double or triple kills without any problems. I feel like twins didn't get nerf since 2011. I got idea of inifite ammo, but it blows light tanks out of way. If impact force on them gots removed completly they would be almost balanced. Or they should have overheating like vulcan or something similar to that. It has same problem with alteration projectile speed makes no chance of escaping a shot, and it mid-range turret becomes long range and twists you like tornado. So I am saying in short it needs rework (but I wouldn't be sad if it gets removed from game). Please don't add auto aim to this turret because it needs nerf not buff again

 

Smoky: Who remember wasp-smoky combination in old good times when you begin xD? This turret is OP too. Don't needs much skill and gots infinite ammo (I would say so) and deals big damage. All it needs is reload nerf. #BringWasp-SmokyBack

 

Vulcan: My opinion it's balanced and it's unique.

 

Thunder: It used to be problem for me untill I got 35 protection from it. It's not unique anymore and OP. Example: 2 shots hornet, railgun 2 shots hornet. It's problem.

 

Shaft: Almost balanced. Should have slower reload in short range. By the way add tip for new players that capturing flags with shaft-wasp is bad idea.

 

Sriker: Not problem for me. My opinion it's nice joke.

 

Magnum: People underrates it way too much. Isn't awsome to it player who is anywhere from safe spot? This turret is balanced, but needs skill and have best marks in maths, but everyone is the same and can count. It's balanced, because it needs a lot of time to learn.

 

Other topic: XP/BP: Please fix the thing after m2s got close to m3s protections on m2s are the same. Wasp m2 can be 4 shot for railgun m2. This is why I barely play XP/BP now. m2 hornet is stronger than my m3. Is they were they same I would be ok with it. 

 

I hope that developers at least will read this. Maybe I should Pay2Win so they would read this? 

this is impressive... but you forgot the drop mic...

[gerry89 160]

Twins and vulcan is what i consider to be unlimited output turrets due to their ability to keep on firing, they are only really deady in very open areas, you can kinda see my profile, but everyone knows that twins is mostly a defence type turret while smoky is an offensive and counter type, if you see my profile I have used twins quiet a lot more as I am a defensive player but twins may be easy to use, but dont forget the legendary Rock Legacy module which almost every old Legend has, this is what limits the number of twins being used in the game, in the end the overall game balance is also dependant on the modules that are being used. Most common modules around marshal used to be 'emerald' types so they had thunder rail and twins protection, as you can see smoky would perform naturally better than twins or thunder too. Game balance is a pretty complex thing to talk about in the end as it does constantly change as us tankers adjust to different styles of playing.

i dont agree with the twins being deffencive part...if you go on a poly cp battle you will notice that most of the players are twins and cp is not very defensive...in regular non pro battles, twins can not turn their turrets and still get a lot of kills...especially with drugs...the damage isnt that much of a problem but they should definitely remove the impact force...infinite amo+high firing rate+high impact force= very hard to kill even if the twin has wasp because they knock off the aim of every other turrets even as an isida player i cant even keep a constant attack...the fact that twins has 2 barrels has also a very big impact since they dont only hit one spot of the tank to knock off its aim, they hit 2 spot that can knock off its aim so its almost impossible to stay stable when a twin attacks you and that kinda makes it unfair...also twins has more damage per second then fire and freeze at the same level and its a mid range weapon...it doesnt make sense that a mid range weapon does more damage then 2 short range weapon..

[Strikechard123 241]

Of course it's balanced, surely I will win against a hunter m3 which has 2647 hp by doing 1 dps per second! 

[BRO0088 1,724]

Sarcasm 

[Penguin40 1,714]

Why on earth do you guys play against players of so higher ranks.......... seriously?

 

Anyways, such cases tend to be rather rare, although the recent updates allow regular players to get such combos fairly easily too. I believe I replied with tips to another of your topics, you can just MU your stuff too etc.

 

No, seriously, such cases do tend to be rather rare even nowadays, but when they do pop up, they tend to ruin teams, ik ik. But you may want to properly deal with 'em. Only a few days earlier I was in a Sandy TDM, dealing with first a Railgun M2-MUed-to-M3 with continuous Double Damage, plus a really annoying Isida/Viking with supplies, possibly MUs, and a Thunder or two. Lost first round, second round they left midway and Autofinish commenced, although it wasn't like I didn't do some stuff to them in first round :p

 

Third round we had an XP M4 and other M3 nuisances versus my Smoky M2.5, an Atlas, and two other M2 allies. Almost perfectly equal scores. You might wanna actually deal with em properly.

 

Also, pls learn to manage your garage. You may wanna do an alt and do it a bit properly, better crystal management and whatnot. You can learn a huge deal from the forum. AND with proper management, you can easily be as dangerous as them M3 foes, except you'll be a free player. Good luck. :p 

[Hate 5,582]

 

Topic merged

[Strikechard123 241]

Why on earth do you guys play against players of so higher ranks.......... seriously?

 

Anyways, such cases tend to be rather rare, although the recent updates allow regular players to get such combos fairly easily too. I believe I replied with tips to another of your topics, you can just MU your stuff too etc.

 

No, seriously, such cases do tend to be rather rare even nowadays, but when they do pop up, they tend to ruin teams, ik ik. But you may want to properly deal with 'em. Only a few days earlier I was in a Sandy TDM, dealing with first a Railgun M2-MUed-to-M3 with continuous Double Damage, plus a really annoying Isida/Viking with supplies, possibly MUs, and a Thunder or two. Lost first round, second round they left midway and Autofinish commenced, although it wasn't like I didn't do some stuff to them in first round :P

 

Third round we had an XP M4 and other M3 nuisances versus my Smoky M2.5, an Atlas, and two other M2 allies. Almost perfectly equal scores. You might wanna actually deal with em properly.

 

Also, pls learn to manage your garage. You may wanna do an alt and do it a bit properly, better crystal management and whatnot. You can learn a huge deal from the forum. AND with proper management, you can easily be as dangerous as them M3 foes, except you'll be a free player. Good luck. :P

If I don't play at high rank battles, i will only get about 60 crystals per battle. Let's suppose I play 2 hours in a day, every one being 15 minutes battle. 60 x 8  minutes = 480 crystals. Nice, now I can buy everything from the garage with just 3360 crystals per week!

[r_sg971 163]

If I don't play at high rank battles, i will only get about 60 crystals per battle. Let's suppose I play 2 hours in a day, every one being 15 minutes battle. 60 x 8  minutes = 480 crystals. Nice, now I can buy everything from the garage with just 3360 crystals per week!

You've wasted too many crystals in paints and modules, and a wide garage.

You should have only bought 1 m1 turret and 1 m1 hull, and then saved for m2 kit, like voltage, simoom, rico/dictator.

They all unlock by Third Lt.

 

Against high rankers, you will lose. Play with you as highest rank, and you might just win, and get more crystals.

[wolverine848 13,097]

If I don't play at high rank battles, i will only get about 60 crystals per battle. Let's suppose I play 2 hours in a day, every one being 15 minutes battle. 60 x 8  minutes = 480 crystals. Nice, now I can buy everything from the garage with just 3360 crystals per week!

How are you going to get more crystals by fighting higher ranks and placing lower on scoreboard?

 

You are better off being a big fish in a small pond. getting the lions-share of a smaller fund is still better than getting almost nothing from a larger fund.

[r_sg971 163]

I can tell you smoky, when you get it to m4 is devastating. I use m4 Viking or m4 mamy with m4 smoky and most games I easily get 20-25 kills. But smoky that is not mued is no good. I don't use any of the modifications either. I usually keep a protection that has high resistance to twins because they generally cheat. lololol!

Smoky m3 without MUs is pretty good till Marshal / Field Marshal ranks.

I've done well with it even against Commanders.

[Nolo 366]

Buff hammer and Vulcan. The updates have taken ALL the juice out of them. Oh, and nerf shaft until the cowards have to start playing the game instead of hiding.

But isn't that the point of Shaft? :huh:

By the way yeah, even though I do not believe it is needed, I will gladly enjoy a nice buff to the derp gun! :P

[Strikechard123 241]

Striker is sometimes outclassed by smoky or thunder due their instant projectile hit. Although striker has a nice mode for firing 4 homing missiles, the target may escape or die while you aim at him. This is why I suggest making single missiles more reliable by giving them some of the homing capabilities of the full salvo.

[Maf 32,300]

 

Topic merged

 

As with the previous idea of this type, I agree that Striker needs to be buffed, but Hazel says it's OP  <_>

[r_sg971 163]

Striker is OP if you manage to land all your shots on the enemy - but there is the challenge.

A skilled enemy will move fast around you, and with the slow speed of projectiles, easily evade a couple of them.

 

If they were to increase the speed, then striker would definitely be OP.

[Strikechard123 241]

 Give shaft 100% shots penetration like railgun 

 

I know Mafioso or someone else will come 'closed we do nut acept such idea reverted time freezed firebird etc' but it would make shaft better and fair because it is only for fully charged shots. I mean shaft shots are like railgun they travel instantly and they do huge damage, but shaft does even more.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Maf