category Let's Discuss Game Balance

[wolverine848 13,097]

 

 

I only said realistic because you said comical, a better word for that would be balanced.

You don't use vulcan maybe use it and then discuss game balance? I never said to make it back to its previous impact prove me wrong.

 

Hold on... you're saying I should not comment on Vulcan's Impact force if I don't use it?

 

Getting hit by it in battle is not enough to be able to comment on it's Impact?

 

Oh MY   :o  <_<  :wacko:  :blink:

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hold on... you're saying I should not comment on Vulcan's Impact force if I don't use it?

 

Getting hit by it in battle is not enough to be able to comment on it's Impact?

 

Oh MY   :o  <_<  :wacko:  :blink:

 

I think he might be yet another forum troller :ph34r:

Edited July 1, 2017 by DieselPlatinum

[Truthteller 4,204]

Hold on... you're saying I should not comment on Vulcan's Impact force if I don't use it?

 

Getting hit by it in battle is not enough to be able to comment on it's Impact?

 

Oh MY   :o  <_<  :wacko:  :blink:

Yes you should not comment because your knowledge of vulcan is outdated, try vulcan right now and see if the impact force is as high as you said it is  ;)

 

I said nothing about impact force on targets in mid-air. Please do not make up things I did not say. I am saying Vulcan does have an impact effect that does affect enemies. Enemies with treads on the ground.

 

That being said I do agree with you they over-nerfed Vulcan back when the gutted the auto-gyro effect. But I do not think adding impact is the way to undo that over-nerf. I'd suggest looking at adding to Vulcan's vertical shooting arc.

  ''it is enough to get occasional disruptions on lighter hulls.  Example a Hornet coming up a ramp. You start hitting it and it takes a couple seconds more to drop its nose to a level, shoot-back-at-you position.''

 

Any hull is easy to push if it is not on the ground.

EDIT: vulcan verticle shooting arc is fine what it needs is a damage and impact force buff

Edited July 1, 2017 by Truthteller

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

'what it needs is a damage and impact force buff' So true!

Edited July 1, 2017 by AbsoluteAlphaZero

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

Yes you should not comment because your knowledge of vulcan is outdated, try vulcan right now and see if the impact force is as high as you said it is ;)

 

 

''it is enough to get occasional disruptions on lighter hulls. Example a Hornet coming up a ramp. You start hitting it and it takes a couple seconds more to drop its nose to a level, shoot-back-at-you position.''

 

Any hull is easy to push if it is not on the ground.

EDIT: vulcan verticle shooting arc is fine what it needs is a damage and impact force buff

Are you Mexican? Because your english stinks.

Anyways. Vulcan doesn't need an Impact or Damage buff. To prove it, grab an M0 on a low low low rank alt, equip it and Viking and enjoy the carnage. Other M0s simply cannot compete with the DpS that Vulcan puts out at low ranks, and an M3 absolutely wastes M2 and M2 ½ hulls.

I agree with KillerAssassain3, Vulcan needs a vertical aim buff. It got hit hard a while back and targeting became a lot harder.

 

Also, you mentioned realism above, well have some facts.

 

As another forumer above said, the Vulcan is based on the GUA-8/Avenger 30mm rotary cannon and the M61 Vulcan 20mm minigun. Both fire extreme high velocity armor piercing ammunition designed to cut enemy armored fighting vehicles. The GUA-8/Avenger 30mm also has application in aircraft, most iconically in the A-10 Warthog. Firing the 30mm presents little to no recoil because of how it's mounted inside the nose, and hitting enemy fighters with this cannon causes little to no disruption in flight due to the ammo over penetrating the fighter's hull.

 

So, realism is, well, real. Vulcan has low impact force because in real life, the weapons it's based on have little impact force of their own. The only exception is when you load incendiary shells into an M61, but that only happens when you're using it for anti-ground forces fire.

 

EDIT: Here, do some reading.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

Edited July 1, 2017 by GunslingerMongoose

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

It still needs damage buff.... have you ever played at Legend ranks?

[Truthteller 4,204]

Are you Mexican? Because your english stinks.

Anyways. Vulcan doesn't need an Impact or Damage buff. To prove it, grab an M0 on a low low low rank alt, equip it and Viking and enjoy the carnage. Other M0s simply cannot compete with the DpS that Vulcan puts out at low ranks, and an M3 absolutely wastes M2 and M2 ½ hulls.

I agree with KillerAssassain3, Vulcan needs a vertical aim buff. It got hit hard a while back and targeting became a lot harder.

 

Also, you mentioned realism above, well have some facts.

 

As another forumer above said, the Vulcan is based on the GUA-8/Avenger 30mm rotary cannon and the M61 Vulcan 20mm minigun. Both fire extreme high velocity armor piercing ammunition designed to cut enemy armored fighting vehicles. The GUA-8/Avenger 30mm also has application in aircraft, most iconically in the A-10 Warthog. Firing the 30mm presents little to no recoil because of how it's mounted inside the nose, and hitting enemy fighters with this cannon causes little to no disruption in flight due to the ammo over penetrating the fighter's hull.

 

So, realism is, well, real. Vulcan has low impact force because in real life, the weapons it's based on have little impact force of their own. The only exception is when you load incendiary shells into an M61, but that only happens when you're using it for anti-ground forces fire.

Nice opening with a racist comment really credible :)

Did you just quote another person and say the same thing he said? what are you adding to this discussion? you could have said that you agree with him..

And there are many turret similar to vulcan IRL that have high impact, and as Killer said tanki is not meant to be realistic, I also said realism because Wolverine said that vulcans impact was comical (probably talking about the old vulcan), I already said that a better word for it was BALANCED.

[AbsoluteAlphaZero 2,027]

RL doesn't even matter in this discussion as it's about the tanki balance. Vulcan is just underpowered period.

[TheBlackChick 319]

How does this prove that vulcan is balanced?

You a person with Legend experience fought a bunch of low ranks with this turret and got a good exp/cry ratio how about try vulcan with m3s with other legends and see how well it performs in a real battle, preferably in a DM.

 

Actually, I was trying to point out that I performed with Vulcan just as well as I did with other turrets on my alts. This is why I don't think buffing Vulcan is so important. Even at my rank Vulcan is annoying if you can't find cover because it just won't stop shooting and it has pretty good range and autoaim as well. However, maybe an increase in dmg/impact would make it more popular which would be a good thing, while not making Vulcan too OP. Edited July 1, 2017 by TheBlackChick

[Truthteller 4,204]

Actually, I was trying to point out that I performed with Vulcan just as well as I did with other turrets on my alts. This is why I don't think buffing Vulcan is so important, but maybe an increase in dmg/impact would make it more popular which would be a good thing, while not making Vulcan too OP.

I agree with some of your points I have used vulcan at lower ranks and it performs well with other turrets but the issue it with higher ranks it needs a buff in damage and impact and even at lower ranks I see that my impact is too low I aim at the corner of hulls and they don't move.

 

Yes an increase in dmg and impact will balance it I only said a slight buff damage 25% and Idk how impact force is measured but it needs a buff but not as huge as it was before the vulcan nerf update.

[TheBlackChick 319]

Yes an increase in dmg and impact will balance it I only said a slight buff damage 25%

I can't say it's a bad idea, but 25% is huge. With a buff this big Vulcan would deal as much damage as Twins while having better range,auto aim and better projectile speed. Btw, Hazel said decreasing and increasing damage of turrets is just lame and he prefers making other sort of changes. Anyway, I may be wrong but I think he has also said something about reworking Vulcan

[Truthteller 4,204]

I can't say it's a bad idea, but 25% is huge. With a buff this big Vulcan would deal as much damage as Twins while having better range,auto aim and better projectile speed. Btw, Hazel said decreasing and increasing damage of turrets is just lame and he prefers making other sort of changes. Anyway, I may be wrong but I think he has also said something about reworking Vulcan

It won't have the same damage as twins..

I also think some changes to vulcan are coming soon they always nerf and buff certain turrets every few months

[WaspShaft98 114]

okay guys since none of us has vulcan as our main turret, nor do we have a lot of protections against it, we don't want it to get buffed, so please stop saying it is UP  :ph34r:

 

also, they do reduce and increase damages.

 

isida damage and healing was increased, while smoky critical damage was reduced in the second last smoky balance update.

[TheBlackChick 319]

It won't have the same damage as twins..

I was talking about medium and long range because Twins is supposed to be a close-medium range weapon. 

Anyway, maybe they'll buff it or change it, as it is extremely unpopular, just as TDM is...

 

okay guys since none of us has vulcan as our main turret, nor do we have a lot of protections against it, we don't want it to get buffed, so please stop saying it is UP  :ph34r:

 

You have a point here :lol:  I'm not really planning on getting ANY Vulcan protection and crystals are an issue since I'm not sure I can get 1M crystals again for the next sales...

 

also, they do reduce and increase damages.

isida damage and healing was increased, while smoky critical damage was reduced in the second last smoky balance update.

 

I just said what Hazel stated. While I can agree that changes done to Smoky were quite "lame" as Hazel would call it, the one for Isida actually produced some changes in gameplay.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

540 + 25% = 675 damage per second at m4. Without DD. With DD it's around 1350 damage per second. And unlike isida where it runs out of energy in 5 seconds, Vulcan can keep shooting basically until it dies.

[TheBlackChick 319]

4th place was a Vulcan and he got a similar score/hour ratio as I did with my Isida (roughly 3k). This result is somewhat normal as almost nobody had Vulcan protection, but at least it shows Vulcan isn't TOO weak.

 

 

[Truthteller 4,204]

I was talking about medium and long range because Twins is supposed to be a close-medium range weapon. 

Anyway, maybe they'll buff it or change it, as it is extremely unpopular, just as TDM is...

Twins is not unpopular at all? it is perfectly balanced and powerful..

 

540 + 25% = 675 damage per second at m4. Without DD. With DD it's around 1350 damage per second. And unlike isida where it runs out of energy in 5 seconds, Vulcan can keep shooting basically until it dies.

That's the highest damage possible so with DD it can kill light hulls in 2 seconds medium hulls in 3 seconds and heavy hulls in 4 seconds, with DD... Without DD it can kill light hulls in 4 seconds, medium hulls in 5 seconds, heavy hulls in 6 seconds, this is an m4 (highest possible modification) and also this is with no protections sounds perfectly balanced to me?

 

4th place was a Vulcan and he got a similar score/hour ratio as I did with my Isida (roughly 3k). This result is somewhat normal as almost nobody had Vulcan protection, but at least it shows Vulcan isn't TOO weak.

 

 

 

This is the best case scenario for vulcan isidas and easy targets in polygon CP, and 4th is not a big deal its average

Also I never said its unusable? I just said it needed a buff to be balanced..

Edited July 2, 2017 by Truthteller

[GunslingerMongoose 198]

Nice opening with a racist comment really credible :)

Did you just quote another person and say the same thing he said? what are you adding to this discussion? you could have said that you agree with him..

And there are many turret similar to vulcan IRL that have high impact, and as Killer said tanki is not meant to be realistic, I also said realism because Wolverine said that vulcans impact was comical (probably talking about the old vulcan), I already said that a better word for it was BALANCED.

Racism free of charge.

Yes I qouted another player and added a small tidbit of my own along with the links.

No, no mounted rapid fire machine gun turret in real life has a high impact, and purely because the rounds are travelling so fast that they simply puncture and cut armor to ribbons, not bludgeon it.

Realism is nonexistent in TO, I'll let you have that.

Wolverine was in fact talking about the old pre-impact nerf Vulcan. Hammer was far worse however, being able to make a Wasp do a full ground barrel roll at point blank range, if memory serves.

Vulcan will never be properly balanced, it has one of the best mid-range DpS ratings in the game. The only turret that pops into mind for an M4 with better mid-range DpS is Thunder (Because Smoky is crap now and just can't compete).

 

:/

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

That's the highest damage possible so with DD it can kill light hulls in 2 seconds medium hulls in 3 seconds and heavy hulls in 4 seconds, with DD... Without DD it can kill light hulls in 4 seconds, medium hulls in 5 seconds, heavy hulls in 6 seconds, this is an m4 (highest possible modification) and also this is with no protections sounds perfectly balanced to me?

You sound very confused right now, as if you were asking a question. Tell me, what do you not understand.

 

All I did was punch in its m4 damage (540) and added 25% in to the calculator and I got 675. Blame the calculator if you want to blame somebody just don't blame me.

 

But really 675 is a lot for Vulcan.

[Truthteller 4,204]

You sound very confused right now, as if you were asking a question. Tell me, what do you not understand.

 

All I did was punch in its m4 damage (540) and added 25% in to the calculator and I got 675. Blame the calculator if you want to blame somebody just don't blame me.

 

But really 675 is a lot for Vulcan.

I am not confused... That is not allot for Vulcan you need to know how vulcans damage works..

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I am not confused... That is not allot for Vulcan you need to know how vulcans damage works..

I do know, and with such a high firing rate, it's damage output is already crazy. And with a buff in damage it will be so OP that everyone will want to buy it.

[Truthteller 4,204]

I do know, and with such a high firing rate, it's damage output is already crazy. And with a buff in damage it will be so OP that everyone will want to buy it.

Did I not explain how long it will take to kill?

 

That's the highest damage possible so with DD it can kill light hulls in 2 seconds medium hulls in 3 seconds and heavy hulls in 4 seconds, with DD... Without DD it can kill light hulls in 4 seconds, medium hulls in 5 seconds, heavy hulls in 6 seconds, this is an m4 (highest possible modification) and also this is with no protections sounds perfectly balanced to me?

?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Did I not explain how long it will take to kill?

 

 

?

That's actually inaccurate. On DD, it kill lighthulls in around 1.45 seconds, medium hulls around 2.2 seconds, and heavy hulls around 3 seconds. Without DD it kills light hulls around 2.9 seconds, medium hulls around 4.4 seconds, and heavy hulls around 5.8 seconds.

 

 

And how would you like to be on the receiving end of those shells?

Edited July 2, 2017 by DieselPlatinum

[Truthteller 4,204]

That's actually inaccurate. On DD, it kill lighthulls in around 1.45 seconds, medium hulls around 2.2 seconds, and heavy hulls around 3 seconds. Without DD it kills light hulls around 2.9 seconds, medium hulls around 4.4 seconds, and heavy hulls around 5.8 seconds.

 

 

And how would you like to be on the receiving end of those shells?

So I was over-exaggerating vulcans power its even less than I said so that means it is perfectly balanced if 25% is added 

[TheBlackChick 319]

Twins is not unpopular at all? it is perfectly balanced and powerful..

 

I was talking about Vulcan being unpopular and that's why maybe they'll buff it or change it 

 

This is the best case scenario for vulcan isidas and easy targets in polygon CP, and 4th is not a big deal its average

Also I never said its unusable? I just said it needed a buff to be balanced..

 

It's not about finishing 4th. The guy entered the battle a lot later than I did and he was scoring just as fast as me. However, I agree Poly CP is one of the best scenarios for a Vulcan as almost everybody goes to the point in the middle and enemies usually can't find any cover. In other maps Vulcan would perfom worse...

With your 25% damage buff Vulcan would be able to deal 675 damage if the target is closer than 70m which is just insane. 70 meters is a lot and here's why: a Freeze can kill a heavy hull in 5,2s, but the target needs to be at 20 meters or closer, while Vulcan needs 0,6s more but he can hit you from a really safe distance (70 meters) and Vulcan doesn't even have to realod. A 25% buff in dmg is too much. If you want another comparisson, here's Smoky (which fires continously, just like Vulcan): 7,5s needed to destroy a heavy hull from the same safe distance (70m). 

Edited July 2, 2017 by TheBlackChick