Let's Discuss Augments

[Genuine_Noob 34]

Duplet seems like the best Hammer alteration but Hammer somehow needs it against strong Fire and Freeze.

Fire and Freeze are overpowered . YES SURE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT YEAH AGREED but:

 

DUPLET IS TO DAMN POWERFUL

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Fire and Freeze are overpowered . YES SURE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT YEAH AGREED but:

 

DUPLET IS TO DAMN POWERFUL

OP AS *CENSORED*. 

 

One matchmaking battle later.....

 

MOUNTAINS OF DESTROYED TANKS!!! WITH ONLY 1 DEATH! 

[Astute_T.O 63]

When railgun with hyperspace fires through multiple tanks.....

Damage=28729372947

Cool right?

[Astute_T.O 63]

I didn't calculate.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

OP AS *CENSORED*.

 

One matchmaking battle later.....

 

MOUNTAINS OF DESTROYED TANKS!!! WITH ONLY 1 DEATH!

Mountains of destroyed tanks with 1 death? Smoky, Thunder, Magnum and Rail can do the same, they just need some skills xD

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

Maf once said that alteration equipped turrets should theoretically be of same power level as stock version of turrets. But is that what is happening in reality? Alterations make a turret far more powerful than the stock version. The most appropriate example is sledgehammer for thunder. Firstly, the lesser range is not a handicap at all since most matchmaking maps are small or medium and it's easy to get within 50 meters of an enemy and maintain that distance. Secondly, no one sees that it actually increases DPM at all ranges since weak damage is still the same with absolutelyà no side effect at all. And what happened to the unreleased alterations?

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Maf once said that alteration equipped turrets should theoretically be of same power level as stock version of turrets. But is that what is happening in reality? Alterations make a turret far more powerful than the stock version. The most appropriate example is sledgehammer for thunder. Firstly, the lesser range is not a handicap at all since most matchmaking maps are small or medium and it's easy to get within 50 meters of an enemy and maintain that distance. Secondly, no one sees that it actually increases DPM at all ranges since weak damage is still the same with absolutelyà no side effect at all. And what happened to the unreleased alterations?

Maintaining that range isn't the problem. The problem is being a lot more vulnerable against turrets like firebird, freeze, isida, twins, ricochet etc. And also more vulnerable to self damage.

 

And a more appropriate example would be the auto cannon or incendiary rounds of smoky, duplex or Dragon breath of hammer, incendiary bands of Vulcan.

[SageoftheSixPaths 215]

Maintaining that range isn't the problem. The problem is being a lot more vulnerable against turrets like firebird, freeze, isida, twins, ricochet etc. And also more vulnerable to self damage.

 

And a more appropriate example would be the auto cannon or incendiary rounds of smoky, duplex or Dragon breath of hammer, incendiary bands of Vulcan.

yes, but the high rate of fire coupled with the ridiculous damage will ensure that no enemy can get close to the thunder user. Self-damage is rarely a disadvantage with the prevalence of drones, supplies like DA and repair kits and modules. The only way to defeat him is with using striker, shaft or freeze from behind.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

yes, but the high rate of fire coupled with the ridiculous damage will ensure that no enemy can get close to the thunder user. Self-damage is rarely a disadvantage with the prevalence of drones, supplies like DA and repair kits and modules. The only way to defeat him is with using striker, shaft or freeze from behind.

Auto cannon still more OP than sledgehammer to be honest. Besides I'm not gonna buy the sledgehammer alt unless the range reduction gets reduced to 50%.

 

 

Did some calculations and it turns out that the range at m4 with sledgehammer alt would be 10 to 15 m (2 to 3 props) length.

Edited December 22, 2018 by DieselPlatinum

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

When you're feeling generous after YOLOing your way out of the enemy base with their flag so you plan to give the enemy flag to the ally closest to your team's flag but then you realise it's a Compact tanks user. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Caps flag for yourself*

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I have so many things to discuss and get off my chest about alterations that shouldn't be in the same post. I'll be patient and tackle them one at a time after I receive feedback from each. 

 

First thing is...the logic of alterations. 

 

 

Some alterations make sense. Alterations such as Compact Tanks  <_<, Corrosive Mix and Support Nanobots make sense because their mechanics of which has to be done in order to achieve their effects are logical. 

 

Compact Tanks because you're burning the fuel faster which would lead to a more intense flame. 

 

Corrosive Mix because you're removing the agent that produces the freezing effect in favour of an acid mixture to do more damage. 

 

Support Nanobots because you're taking the nanobots that damage enemies and configuring them to heal allies which would lead to a damage decrease and a healing increase.

 

 

Some alterations, however, do not make sense or do not make complete sense. Let's discuss those. Feel free to disagree with me and give feedback on my points. 

 

 

Incendiary Mix: Yes, the damage increase makes sense but the thing is, if a fire is more intense to the point where the damage is increased, wouldn't it burn even more? The closest thing example I can use to disagree with what I stated is being burned by a clothes iron. It is hot off the bat but when it touches you and your skin sustains damage, it wouldn't feel as if it were still "on fire" unlike somewhere on your body being inflamed. 

 

Incendiary Band: For the (partially unnoticeable) sake of balance., the damage is increased by 10%. That's alright. However, the fact that that this has to be an alteration itself doesn't make sense. About a month after Vulcan was released, I found myself wondering: "Wait, Vulcan overheats right? If a machine gun overheats, wouldn't the bullets overheat too? And if the bullets are heated, wouldn't it do damage like a Firebird? Eh, whatever."  I forgot about that up until they brought out the Incendiary Band alteration. 

 

When the Vulcan overheats, so does the tank. When the tank overheats, the bullets do as well. When a Firebird is shooting at a Vulcan, both the tank and the Vulcan are heated yet the bullets aren't heated at all. It is rather inconsistent with the mechanics of other turrets heating the Vulcan. The description states that it happens when firing continuously. Does this mean that the heat generating from the turret itself is different from the heat generated from Firebird or Smoky's alteration? I would disagree because of the "Firemarked" (Came up with that myself) mechanic.

Let's say a Smoky with the Incendiary Rounds alteration or a Hammer with the Dragon's Breath alteration hit a target and ignite them. The target is firemarked by them. Let's say a Firebird comes in now and starts shooting the target and increases the temperature of the target even more. The tick damage would belong to the Smoky or the Hammer. Whoever first ignites the target would be the one do tick damage if any other ignition-based turrets come into play and shoot the target. 

 

Why is that important? The reason why is because when overheating, you firemark yourself. You are the one doing the tick damage to yourself. Picture this: You're overheating. A Firebird comes up to you and shoots you for 3 seconds. You kill the Firebird. Your life is running low and soon after, you die from the heat. What happens? It counts as a self destruct because you are the one doing the tick damage to yourself and not the Firebird. This is a (I doubt at this point) hidden advantage of having Incendiary Band, Dragon's Breath and Incendiary Rounds. This would prove that the heat that is produced by the Vulcan itself is the same as the heat produced by Firebird, SMoky and Hammer. This means that that too is inconsistent about the alteration. 

 

 

 

I would have done Subcalibre Rounds for Thunder but I won't for I lack the knowledge of military equipment. 

 

I'm too confused about it to talk about Sledgehammer Rounds for Thunder.

 

 

Electromagnetic Accelerator "Scout": My only problem with this is that it does not give a decrease in impact force. If you're able to load the shells faster then that may mean it's lighter. If it's lighter, then it means that the damage would be lower. If it is lighter and the damage is lowered, then wouldn't the impact force not be as much as a regular heavier shot? 

 

Large Calibre Rounds: The same thing goes for this one. Longer reload, heavier/larger bullet and a longer charge up time should increase impact force instead of leaving it the same as Stock Railgun. 

 

 

Hyperspace Rounds: Oh boy. This was the one that made me start looking at the other alterations for logic errors. Just by looking at the new alterations for rail, you could see that almost all of them are "Improvements" and not "Alterations". This one is a good example of devs trying to please the distraught high-rank Railgun users. Let's get into this one. 

 

The alteration decreases the MAXIMUM damage by 10%. Not even the minimum damage too, just the maximum. With that, you wouldn't really notice a difference since your shots almost always deal different damages within the range. The considerable difference is the impact force but the alteration's feature doesn't highlight that debuff. The pro is that the penetration damage doubles for each tank it goes through. That right there...made no sense to me. 

 

Let's assume that speed = damage. You are moving at 100 Km/h. You hit and penetrate right through an obstacle. Immediately after doing so, your speed is decreased to 90 Km/h. Hitting the next obstacle would decrease it to 80 Km/h which would decrease your damage again. The speed is decreased which means that the damage would also be decreased. Hyperspace Rounds, however, isn't like that. Hyperspace rounds is like:

 

You are moving at 100 Km/h. You hit and penetrate right through an obstacle. Immediately after doing so, your speed increases to 200 Km/h. After hitting the second tank, your speed increases to 400 Km/h and after hitting the third tank, it increases to 800 Km/h. It just doesn't make sense. It's supposed to either slow you down or keep you at the same speed. 

 

Now let's look at it from the description's perspective. Each tank is "an additional chance to accelerate". I wanna imagine that there is a dash panel (Mario Kart's dash panel if you're confused) hidden in every tank just to only be used by the shot from this alteration. "Damage from such rounds increases each time they break through a target"- The only way I can see this working is if the, assuming that the shell maintains maximum speed after penetrating the hull, shell's tip rips off part of the metal plating from the hull after penetrating it and keeps it there on top of it then hits another tank for more damage but that damage could never be two times higher than the last one if that's the case. 

 

 

These are my thoughts about them. If you have anything you disagree on, let me know why you disagree. Let me remind you that this is taken from what I'm assuming to be the average player's mind so no extensive research was done for this. The only bit of research I did was to try to explain why Subcalibre Rounds made no sense but it's just after midnight here and my eyes are hurting me. 

[Astute_T.O 63]

Electromagnetic Accelerator "Scout": My only problem with this is that it does not give a decrease in impact force. If you're able to load the shells faster then that may mean it's lighter. If it's lighter, then it means that the damage would be lower. If it is lighter and the damage is lowered, then wouldn't the impact force not be as much as a regular heavier shot? 

 

Large Calibre Rounds: The same thing goes for this one. Longer reload, heavier/larger bullet and a longer charge up time should increase impact force instead of leaving it the same as Stock Railgun. 

 

 

Hyperspace Rounds: Oh boy. This was the one that made me start looking at the other alterations for logic errors. Just by looking at the new alterations for rail, you could see that almost all of them are "Improvements" and not "Alterations". This one is a good example of devs trying to please the distraught high-rank Railgun users. Let's get into this one. 

 

The alteration decreases the MAXIMUM damage by 10%. Not even the minimum damage too, just the maximum. With that, you wouldn't really notice a difference since your shots almost always deal different damages within the range. The considerable difference is the impact force but the alteration's feature doesn't highlight that debuff. The pro is that the penetration damage doubles for each tank it goes through. That right there...made no sense to me. 

Of these three, I prefer HSR. EAS reduce in max damage is damn drastic. Not good in a situation where you need to hit as hard as possible.

For LCR, the really drastic increase in charge time and reload is too drastic, quite as drastic as the damage increase. So, I don't like it, as I'm an attacking player and you need medium-high on railgun with stock /faster/very slightly slower (abt. 10% increase) reload. 

For  HSR, the reduction in impact force is the only actually noticeable con. The -10% damage only removes your ability to 1-hit an equal modification Medium hull. The pros of this alteration (100% penetration) makes the cons of it look like a dwarf. Such a drastic penetration is useful as you can easily 1-hit an m4 mammoth if you have DP and your shot goes through another tank (ally or enemy) .If you argue against this, saying that you don't get such opportunities often, you're wrong. I often encounter such situations that make me heartily wish I had this alteration.It also doesn't affect reload or charge time, essential when playing attacking roles.

 

Merry Christmas!

Edited December 24, 2018 by Astute_T.O

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Of these three, I prefer HSR. EAS reduce in max damage is damn drastic. Not good in a situation where you need to hit as hard as possible.

For LCR, the really drastic increase in charge time and reload is too drastic, quite as drastic as the damage increase. So, I don't like it, as I'm an attacking player and you need medium-high on railgun with stock /faster/very slightly slower (abt. 10% increase) reload. 

For  HSR, the reduction in impact force is the only actually noticeable con. The -10% damage only removes your ability to 1-hit an equal modification Medium hull. The pros of this alteration (100% penetration) makes the cons of it look like a dwarf. Such a drastic penetration is useful as you can easily 1-hit an m4 mammoth if you have DP and your shot goes through another tank (ally or enemy) .If you argue against this, saying that you don't get such opportunities often, you're wrong. I often encounter such situations that make me heartily wish I had this alteration.It also doesn't affect reload or charge time, essential when playing attacking roles.

 

Merry Christmas!

Well...I wasn't giving an explanation of which is the best or most useful alteration. I was giving explanations as to why the effects being given to the turret do not make sense or do not make complete sense according to logic. 

 

Although it wasn't the reply I was expecting, it is good that your honest thoughts on the 3 alterations. 

 

Merry Christmas to you too.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

When railgun with hyperspace fires through multiple tanks.....

Damage=28729372947

Cool right?

U wot m8

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Mountains of destroyed tanks with 1 death? Smoky, Thunder, Magnum and Rail can do the same, they just need some skills xD

If you go to Let's Discuss Hammer page, a dude post an result of him using Duplet. He's Legend btw. Oh guess what?

 

Not only he's in the 1st place..... That dude earnt 37 kills with only one death. Commenting "This alternation is an absolute killing machine if used correctly."

[GorgoBlesk 831]

If you go to Let's Discuss Hammer page, a dude post an result of him using Duplet. He's Legend btw. Oh guess what?

 

Not only he's in the 1st place..... That dude earnt 37 kills with only one death. Commenting "This alternation is an absolute killing machine if used correctly."

I have M2 Titan and M1 9/10 Smoky (it is MU-ing to M2 right now xD). It is a horrible combo for Brigadier but I often end up in battle with 12-1, 19-0, 17-1, 5-0 (lots of assists), 24-5 and things like that. If I had M3 Titan Smoky, I would probably manage to kill 30 or 40 enemies in 1 battle without losing a single tank.

 

That guy probably had some Isida friends who healed him all the time.

 

Of course, Duplet is OP. It is the best Hammet alt for sure.

 

However, Duplet is not nearly as strong as Thunder with Subcaliber rounds or Smoky with Incendiary rounds.

Edited December 25, 2018 by GorgoBlesk

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

As seen on the EN Wiki page, they changed the way they wrote the effects for the alterations to a much soft smoother style. I like it that way. 

 

Green text represents the aspect of the turret that is being "buffed".

Red text represents the aspect of the turret that is being "nerfed".

 

In some of the alterations, red text was used instead of green text to represent a buff and not a nerf and vice versa. @Hexed, I think you are a wiki admin, maybe you can change it to what it should be? It would be bad to feed the players wrong information.

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

For the slugger alt for hammer, I still don't see how decreasing the vertical scatter is a good thing, because you lose the vertical auto aim.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

For the slugger alt for hammer, I still don't see how decreasing the vertical scatter is a good thing, because you lose the vertical auto aim.

When I'm using Hammer in MM battles, I always use Slugger. Dragon's breath is for Polygon CPs. 

 

According to the description, I'm assuming that it is meant for ranged targets that are on the same level of terrain as you, the Hammer, is. 

 

For 20k crystals, it certainly does wonders.

 

Unpopular opinion: Slugger > Duplet

[Astute_T.O 63]

U wot m8

No, If u use the HSR Alteration on railgun, you can get about that much by firing through a few tanks with m4 and DP.

I've hit 100 posts! Hurray!

When I'm using Hammer in MM battles, I always use Slugger. Dragon's breath is for Polygon CPs. 

 

According to the description, I'm assuming that it is meant for ranged targets that are on the same level of terrain as you, the Hammer, is. 

 

For 20k crystals, it certainly does wonders.

 

Unpopular opinion: Slugger > Duplet

Slugger is good, but 99 in every 100 prefer Duplet. I've used neither as I'm a Railgun ONLY.

Well...I wasn't giving an explanation of which is the best or most useful alteration. I was giving explanations as to why the effects being given to the turret do not make sense or do not make complete sense according to logic. 

 

Although it wasn't the reply I was expecting, it is good that your honest thoughts on the 3 alterations. 

 

Merry Christmas to you too.

I did understand that you were only seeing whether the alts make sense, though, for EAS, you did mention the downsides, so I thought this reply would fit. Thanks for calling my reply 'honest'.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Should I get Cyclone alternation for my M1 Striker or no?

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Should I get Cyclone alternation for my M1 Striker or no?

If you plan to use it for Team modes in MM battles, don't. I did it hoping it would be a good investment after weeks of saving crystals but I was met with disappointment. The lock on time is simply too long just to get 15 points, most enemies would hide behind something by the time the reticle gets to 60%. 

 

If you're planning on using it for Juggernaut, however, it is a good investment because you almost always get to be the next juggernaut with this. For now, I prefer the standard Striker and the Cyclone only for Juggernaut. Not DM by the way. 

 

I'm buying the 20k alteration for it tomorrow on both my accounts. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by TheCongoSpider

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I just bought slugger on an alt, and it's cheap and the vertical aiming isn't as bad as I feared, but the turret rotation is ridiculously slow even with speed boost.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I just bought slugger on an alt, and it's cheap and the vertical aiming isn't as bad as I feared, but the turret rotation is ridiculously slow even with speed boost.

Hits consistent damage from far though. Sometimes though, one pellet would miss from point-blank range and I'd only do damage for 8 pellets. I still love using it nonetheless.

Edited December 28, 2018 by TheCongoSpider

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hits consistent damage though from far though. Sometimes though, one pellet would miss from point-blank range and I'd only do damage for 8 pellets. I still love using it nonetheless.

Also got the assault rounds alt for it as well, haven't tested it in battle yet, but I am sure looking to troll the enemies to death :ph34r: