Jump to content
EN
Play

Forum

Let's Discuss Augments


 Share

Recommended Posts

4 shots + decreasing reload time to 1.2 would be too much of a buff.

 

Devs will fix Duplet once enough players have invested crystals in A) The alteration and B) Hammer modules + MUs.

In the meantime, devs will be "collecting feedback and data" on the Duplet alteration over, say, 9 months.  

 

Regarding my idea on rebalancing stock Hammer, I was trying to make the point that perhaps the devs didn't make stock Hammer viable enough over the last year or so.  The 4 shots, 1.2 shot reload idea was just an exaggeration. 

 

But anyways, when was the last time stock Hammer was viable and found everywhere in TO?  I know it was fearsome in its right when it came out and some time after, but following successive balance patches before Duplet's debut, I was encountering stock Hammers more and more sporadically.  Back then, Hammers were being overlooked in favor of Magnums, Twins, Ricochets, and Firebirds w/ Compact Fire tanks. 

 

Come the Duplet update, and we all got shot up outta nowhere by the Duplet Hammer bandwagon. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the meantime, devs will be "collecting feedback and data" on the Duplet alteration over, say, 9 months.  

 

Regarding my idea on rebalancing stock Hammer, I was trying to make the point that perhaps the devs didn't make stock Hammer viable enough over the last year or so.  The 4 shots, 1.2 shot reload idea was just an exaggeration. 

 

But anyways, when was the last time stock Hammer was viable and found everywhere in TO?  I know it was fearsome in its right when it came out and some time after, but following successive balance patches before Duplet's debut, I was encountering stock Hammers more and more sporadically.  Back then, Hammers were being overlooked in favor of Magnums, Twins, Ricochets, and Firebirds w/ Compact Fire tanks. 

 

Come the Duplet update, and we all got shot up outta nowhere by the Duplet Hammer bandwagon. 

Stock hammer - probably have not seen many.  Did see a lot of the 5-shot alt when that came out.

 

One issue is the ability to see if target has supplies active.  Wonder if Duplet would be as popular if they had no idea if target was protected by DA. Not knowing if they can one-shot many targets might make them more leary of using that alt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incendiary rounds are much better than Autocannon because they increase the DPS. Afterburn shot is better than critical. Autocannon is just somehow scary but it deals almost no damage.

Incorrect. It doesn't damage on ordinary shots, but, because of the fire rate, you can get 1 critical every 1-2 seconds. The alteration doesn't reduce critical damage. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incorrect. It doesn't damage on ordinary shots, but, because of the fire rate, you can get 1 critical every 1-2 seconds. The alteration doesn't reduce critical damage. 

And you can do this at extreme range - no loss of critical damage regardless of map-size.

 

It's enabled on my smoky now by default.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's almost worth putting a brick on the space bar.

That's true. This doesn't make it good on attack as you can't fire from cover and all it takes is a Rail with DP to blow you up. You can't knock off enemy aim either. However, it makes damn good defence on titan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if they were using a light hull or the hammer was using the booster drone?

that definitely explains it, Booster drone full MU give 4x damage, that coupled with Duplet and DD renders absolutely any protection module or drug useless
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Incorrect. It doesn't damage on ordinary shots, but, because of the fire rate, you can get 1 critical every 1-2 seconds. The alteration doesn't reduce critical damage. 

Not to mention it still shakes and rocks your tank ever .5 seconds....as annoying as twins:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention it still shakes and rocks your tank ever .5 seconds....as annoying as twins:)

Impact though is greatly reduced with the alt.  I'd say Twins impact is more annoying/worse.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Impact though is greatly reduced with the alt.  I'd say Twins impact is more annoying/worse.

Correct...the smoky is at 145 and the twins at 160 if both are m4 AND smoky is equipped with autocannon. It isn't AS bad, but with a shaft it is highly annoying unless using mammoth or titan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh, I see my mistake! Other than that, my sentiments exactly. Dishing out 2160 damage in that short a time is absurd. And the brief interval between Duplet Hammer shots makes it easier to screw up Health Kit healing compared to Stock Hammer.

 

At this point, I feel like maybe the devs should have balanced Stock Hammer better, like giving it 4 (dare I say 5) shots instead of 3 and decreasing its reload time between shots a bit (i.e. 1.2 seconds instead of 1.8), so that the meta herd doesn't just instantly hop on the Duplet bandwagon.

 

And seeing how long it took them to readjust Magnum, this Duplet phase of TO will be long and unpleasant unless the devs have a change of heart or something.

I would simply remove that absurd clip mechanic in stock, slugger and incendiary Hammer. That would be a buff for them.

 

To balance buffed Hammer with other turrets, I would nerf Hammer damage by 20%.

 

Stats after my Hammer rebalance:

 

M4 Hammer - 864 damage, 1,8s reload (480 DPS)

 

M4 Duplet - 864 damage, 4s clip reload, 0,25s 2nd shot reload

(406,5 DPS, average reload 2,125s)

 

Current stats:

 

M4 Hammer (current) - 1080 damage, 1,8s reload, 5s clip reload (376,75 DPS, average reload 2,85s (!))

 

M4 Duplet (current) - 1080 damage, 4s clip reload, 0,25s 2nd shot reload (508,25 DPS, average reload 2,125s)

 

M4 Thunder - 880 damage, 2,3s reload (382,5 DPS)

 

M4 Smoky - 535 damage, 1,5s reload (356⅔ DPS, I did not count crits)

 

Conclusion:

 

1. Duplet has currently 35% more DPS than stock Hammer

 

2. Thunder and Smoky can easily win 1v1 against stock Hammer

 

3. Duplet can easily win 1v1 against everything except Fire and Freeze

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would simply remove that absurd clip mechanic in stock, slugger and incendiary Hammer. That would be a buff for them.

 

To balance buffed Hammer with other turrets, I would nerf Hammer damage by 20%.

 

Stats after my Hammer rebalance:

 

M4 Hammer - 864 damage, 1,8s reload (480 DPS)

 

M4 Duplet - 864 damage, 4s clip reload, 0,25s 2nd shot reload

(406,5 DPS, average reload 2,125s)

 

Current stats:

 

M4 Hammer (current) - 1080 damage, 1,8s reload, 5s clip reload (376,75 DPS, average reload 2,85s (!))

 

M4 Duplet (current) - 1080 damage, 4s clip reload, 0,25s 2nd shot reload (508,25 DPS, average reload 2,125s)

 

M4 Thunder - 880 damage, 2,3s reload (382,5 DPS)

 

M4 Smoky - 535 damage, 1,5s reload (356⅔ DPS, I did not count crits)

 

Conclusion:

 

1. Duplet has currently 35% more DPS than stock Hammer

 

2. Thunder and Smoky can easily win 1v1 against stock Hammer

 

3. Duplet can easily win 1v1 against everything except Fire and Freeze

With all this stuff about Duplet being better than Stock Hammer, I'll have to say that Stock Hammer only has one advantage over Duplet and I explained it in post #608. Even with that, it is ONLY ONE advantage. Duplet takes the cake with everything else. It was a good concept that I think was intentionally pushed too far.

 

For the past 3 days, every Hammer I saw had Duplet, no matter the mode. No one had Slugger, no one had Dragon's Breath; hell, no one even had Adaptive Reload. EVERYONE had Duplet. I hate what this has turned people into. Making them buy Hammer Protection just to survive. Stock Hammer can't compete efficiently when brought up against protection. Firebird can easily do that. Thunder can do it to an extent but Hammer just cannot right now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct...the smoky is at 145 and the twins at 160 if both are m4 AND smoky is equipped with autocannon. It isn't AS bad, but with a shaft it is highly annoying unless using mammoth or titan.

Somehow, I don't feel that the impact force numbers are accurate. I get way more impact force from a single shot of a Twins projectile than a smoky projectile. 

 

I get more Impact Force from an M1 Thunder shot than an M1 Railgun shot yet Railgun M1 has more impact force. 

 

Can someone help me to disagree? I want to believe that the numbers are accurate but I'm finding it hard to believe that the numbers are accurate. 

  • Like 2
  • Saw it 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somehow, I don't feel that the impact force numbers are accurate. I get way more impact force from a single shot of a Twins projectile than a smoky projectile. 

 

I get more Impact Force from an M1 Thunder shot than an M1 Railgun shot yet Railgun M1 has more impact force. 

 

Can someone help me to disagree? I want to believe that the numbers are accurate but I'm finding it hard to believe that the numbers are accurate.

 

Now that's interesting, I'll have to test it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that's interesting, I'll have to test it out.

I've felt this way for more than 2 years. I just didn't care to investigate it back then. Recently though, I've been noticing it. I could be wrong but let's see how it actually is. 

 

One thing that sucks is that you can't give an estimate as to the impact force the turret has because you can't see the upgrades it has and the Gear Score could be lower than expected because they have no supplies or it could be higher than expected because they have paints, drones, XTs etc.

Thanks, Gear Score. <_<

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've felt this way for more than 2 years. I just didn't care to investigate it back then. Recently though, I've been noticing it. I could be wrong but let's see how it actually is. 

 

One thing that sucks is that you can't give an estimate as to the impact force the turret has because you can't see the upgrades it has and the Gear Score could be lower than expected because they have no supplies or it could be higher than expected because they have paints, drones, XTs etc.

Thanks, Gear Score. <_<

Yeah gear score is a meaningless rating. It's not a good indicator of the players overall strengths.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somehow, I don't feel that the impact force numbers are accurate. I get way more impact force from a single shot of a Twins projectile than a smoky projectile. 

 

I get more Impact Force from an M1 Thunder shot than an M1 Railgun shot yet Railgun M1 has more impact force. 

 

Can someone help me to disagree? I want to believe that the numbers are accurate but I'm finding it hard to believe that the numbers are accurate. 

Twins... 160/barrel right?  Most of the time you are getting hit with 2 shots so close together it's almost simultaneous.

So it's really 320 per "volley".

 

But I see what you are saying - when I use smoky I don't feel I'm dealing 330 impact to my target.  Maye I am...

 

 

Is impact affected in any way by distance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Twins... 160/barrel right?  Most of the time you are getting hit with 2 shots so close together it's almost simultaneous.

So it's really 320 per "volley".

 

But I see what you are saying - when I use smoky I don't feel I'm dealing 330 impact to my target.  Maye I am...

 

 

Is impact affected in any way by distance?

There are some times where I would be hit by one projectile and not many at the same time. I always take an opportunity to look at that because I use the High-pressure pump alteration on Firebird (I recommend it) on my lower account and I cannot afford to lose aim to impact force especially since I use Viking most of the time there. 

Sometimes the single Twins or Ricochet shot would lightly touch my tank and sometimes, they would B-slap my tank; at close range as well as far range (according to the range of the Short ranged turrets). 

 

Sometimes, the impact force feels genuine in a case of shooting a speeding wasp on the turret mounted on the wasp. The wasp would tilt to the side if a Smoky, Railgun, Thunder or Hammer shoot them and they would be accurate. Hammer and Railgun both have the higher impact forces of the group of 4 and they are both similar. They would tilt the Wasp almost to the point of flipping over. The Thunder and Smoky would tilt it but not to the extent of the Hammer or Railgun. In that case, it is accurate.

 

Other situations, however, it seems that it varies. 

 

Yes, the Impact force is affected by range but only for certain turrets. Railgun's impact force isn't affected by range. Magnum's impact force isn't to an extent. Shaft's impact force shows the impact force of a fully charged scoped shot. 

Smoky's regular shot's impact force is affected by range but I'm not sure about the critical shot's impact force. I remember for a Haloween event some time ago (It was probably in 2016 or 2017, where I did 41 critical hit damage from across the map to someone. The critical hit's impact force back then was affected by the range but I don't think that's the case now. I'll have to experiment with that one. For now, I'm assuming the range doesn't matter since the damage is constant no matter the range so it would make sense that the impact force isn't affected. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

There are some times where I would be hit by one projectile and not many at the same time. I always take an opportunity to look at that because I use the High-pressure pump alteration on Firebird (I recommend it) on my lower account and I cannot afford to lose aim to impact force especially since I use Viking most of the time there. 

Sometimes the single Twins or Ricochet shot would lightly touch my tank and sometimes, they would B-slap my tank; at close range as well as far range (according to the range of the Short ranged turrets). 

 

Sometimes, the impact force feels genuine in a case of shooting a speeding wasp on the turret mounted on the wasp. The wasp would tilt to the side if a Smoky, Railgun, Thunder or Hammer shoot them and they would be accurate. Hammer and Railgun both have the higher impact forces of the group of 4 and they are both similar. They would tilt the Wasp almost to the point of flipping over. The Thunder and Smoky would tilt it but not to the extent of the Hammer or Railgun. In that case, it is accurate.

 

Other situations, however, it seems that it varies.

 

 

 

Yes, the Impact force is affected by range but only for certain turrets. Railgun's impact force isn't affected by range. Magnum's impact force isn't to an extent. Shaft's impact force shows the impact force of a fully charged scoped shot. 

Smoky's regular shot's impact force is affected by range but I'm not sure about the critical shot's impact force. I remember for a Haloween event some time ago (It was probably in 2016 or 2017, where I did 41 critical hit damage from across the map to someone. The critical hit's impact force back then was affected by the range but I don't think that's the case now. I'll have to experiment with that one. For now, I'm assuming the range doesn't matter since the damage is constant no matter the range so it would make sense that the impact force isn't affected. 

So 4-in-5 of smoky shots might have less than max impact because of distance.

 

While twins on other hand tend to be fairly close.   Might explain the discrepancy.

 

I don't ever recall seeing any posted info about impact and range though.  Is that anywhere in the WIKI?

Edited by wolverine848

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So 4-in-5 of smoky shots might have less than max impact because of distance.

 

While twins on other hand tend to be fairly close.   Might explain the discrepancy.

 

I don't ever recall seeing any posted info about impact and range though.  Is that anywhere in the WIKI?

I think it just depends on MUs at this point. Too bad we don't get to see the MUs of other players. Dumbasses (devs) thought putting a meaningless rating (GS) would be better. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So 4-in-5 of smoky shots might have less than max impact because of distance.

 

While twins on other hand tend to be fairly close.   Might explain the discrepancy.

Heh, don't look at it like that. Think of it like this. Have you ever had a smoky hit the side of your tank at almost point blank range? Now compare that to a Smoky hitting you from the red base in Highways while you're in the blue base. You'd notice a difference in the impact force. It doesn't show where the impact force drop off occurs anywhere but it is definitely there. 

Keep your enemies in the minimum damage range and you shouldn't have to worry about it. 

 

 

I don't ever recall seeing any posted info about impact and range though.  Is that anywhere in the WIKI?

No, I just searched and there isn't anything posted on Impact Force. Plus, a lot of the in-game mechanics have changed yet they haven't updated it. It is just observable in the game. I observe it every day when a Thunder tries to shoot me from across the map in Highways ASL and Magistral or just across the map in general. 

Ever noticed that when you are very far away from the enemy Vulcan and when it starts shooting, your tank is still stable enough to drive properly compared to being shot with it in close - mid range? Like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, don't look at it like that. Think of it like this. Have you ever had a smoky hit the side of your tank at almost point blank range? Now compare that to a Smoky hitting you from the red base in Highways while you're in the blue base. You'd notice a difference in the impact force. It doesn't show where the impact force drop off occurs anywhere but it is definitely there. 

Keep your enemies in the minimum damage range and you shouldn't have to worry about it. 

 

 

 

No, I just searched and there isn't anything posted on Impact Force. Plus, a lot of the in-game mechanics have changed yet they haven't updated it. It is just observable in the game. I observe it every day when a Thunder tries to shoot me from across the map in Highways ASL and Magistral or just across the map in general. 

Ever noticed that when you are very far away from the enemy Vulcan and when it starts shooting, your tank is still stable enough to drive properly compared to being shot with it in close - mid range? Like that.

 

Now that I thought about it, I did notice this when I was using thunder and shooting the corners of a Viking that was on the other side of the map. I think the map was desert.

 

I thought nothing of it at first, but now that you mentioned it, it gave me some food for thought.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Twins... 160/barrel right?  Most of the time you are getting hit with 2 shots so close together it's almost simultaneous.

So it's really 320 per "volley".

 

But I see what you are saying - when I use smoky I don't feel I'm dealing 330 impact to my target.  Maye I am...

 

 

Is impact affected in any way by distance?

Correct...but for me with shaft as long as a single impact doesn't take my scope off target I am good. So less than 150 is nothing in a titan...but over 250 gets almost impossible to land a shot in scope mode. That's why I rarely take a full charge on shaft. I really like assault emitters and the rapid shot alt for that reason. Makes the effect of impact less important for shaft users now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeing overall reviews, I'm tempted to save up for Electromagnetic Accelerator 'Scout' alteration for railgun, however, given that I use it for attack, I wanna use the stock rail as scout's damage reduction makes it bad in some situations. 

In fact, I get many such.

Edited by Astute_T.O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, while I was washing my car, my rhythm of wiping the car clean made me realise something. 

 

I was wiping it at what I remember being the speed that an Autocannon Smoky shoots at. I kept doing it until I realised that I didn't initiate the second phase of the wipe in 0.5 seconds rather, it was less. 

I then tried to think of all the alterations that reduce the reload to 0.5 seconds and I remember Shaft's Rapid-fire mode alteration does that. From my experience in the test server, I've come to realise that Shaft, when equipped with this alteration, shoots slower than an Autocannon Smoky despite them "having the same reload time". 

 

As of now, this is just speculation. I do not have the alterations to compare them and the test server has been giving the players low ranks for some reason. My only evidence for this claim is contained in my mind and we all know that's not good enough. 

 

Can someone who has these alterations please test it out and see if they have the same reload time. 

 

Going by my memory (and assuming that Shaft's reload time is actually 0.5 second because it's more believable), it seems that Autocannon reloads in 0.35 seconds and Shaft reloads in 0.5 seconds. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...