Let's Discuss Augments

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I'm not sure where your logic comes from, but I do agree that Sledgehammer alt is far superior to stock Thunder in every way, albeit my reasoning is different. Yes, with the alt you get much faster damage drop-off and at medium to long range you're dealing just 50% of the damage. But there are two very important points here:

1. Tanki maps are fairly small, and most of the fights happen at medium and close range. If you treat your Thunder like a Hammer or Twins and simply ignore far away targets, the reduced range won't even be noticeable.
2. The reload speed increase is 40%. FORTY PERCENT! That's close to twice as fast, so even if you're dealing 50% of the damage (at long range), you are shooting almost twice as fast and therefore the damage is almost the same. But at close range you literally just have a stock Thunder with much faster firing rate.

And another important point is that the faster you fire, the less significant each shot is, meaning that a missed shot when you're shooting quickly won't be as big of a deal compared to missing a shot when you have a longer reload. Compare missing with Twins or Rico to missing with Railgun or Shaft.

 

So yeah, Sledgehammer may not be particularly OP (although that's arguable), but it is undeniably better than stock Thunder, which is not how alterations are supposed to work. It's like the situation with Twins, where the stock version is much worse than any of the alts.

It's actually 30% but yeah, that's still fast. Shoots almost as fast as a Smoky of its respective tier. 

 

So you see Diesel, Sledgehammer is superior to Stock Thunder. Players have more of a chance against Stock Thunder than they do against Sledgehammer Thunder. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Can the devs please nerf the clip reload speed of the Adaptive Reload alteration for Hammer? I remember seeing the Clip reload speed had an increase of 30% (this one could be bad memory) but I remember seeing it being 20% every time I went on the Wiki page (which was about 3 times per day). Recently, I had noticed that it changed to 10% which made it all the more worth it. I bought it and counted the clip reload in my head a few times and it really feels like 5.7 seconds which would be a 10% increase (approximately).

 

This, just like "Death Herald" Compuslator for Railgun, is an upgrade to the turret. A 10% reload time is barely noticeable for an M3/4 Railgun or Hammer. A 20% increase would have been noticeable. While Hammer benefits less with this alteration than Railgun does with its version of the alteration, it is still an upgrade and needs to be nerfed to be put on par with Stock Hammer. It is less of an upgrade than it seems to be because:

 

• You have to get the kill, which can be stolen by anyone. 
• It only gives you two shots if you used your last shot to kill the enemy and you may need 3 shots if you want to kill the other enemy approaching. 
• Stock Hammer can still beat it in a 1 v 1 fight if they're both using heavy hulls or they both have the same Hammer protection with the same hull. 
• This one is situational but it is basically just like Stock Hammer. With so many protection modules against it, because of Duplet  -_-, it's very hard to get a kill before the enemy kills you.

 

 

Death Herald is a straight upgrade because you deal a lot of damage in one shot meaning you have a better chance of stealing the kill especially from far. In DM, people can be huddled up trying to kill each other and you can kill one with the shot and kill the other one immediately because they got hurt by the penetration. I'm surprised that I don't see many Death Heralds. All I see is Large Calibre Rounds and Round Destabilisations everywhere. 

 

I may be the only Hammer that uses Adaptive Reload these days as everyone is either using Duplet or Dragon's Breath. I would still like to see it nerfed. I don't want to feel guilty of playing with an unbalanced alteration that no one knows about because all people care about is Duplet. I would expect a lot of people to stay silent about this because it benefits them without anyone judging them. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I'm not sure where your logic comes from, but I do agree that Sledgehammer alt is far superior to stock Thunder in every way, albeit my reasoning is different. Yes, with the alt you get much faster damage drop-off and at medium to long range you're dealing just 50% of the damage. But there are two very important points here:

 

• Tanki maps are fairly small, and most of the fights happen at medium and close range. If you treat your Thunder like a Hammer or Twins and simply ignore far away targets, the reduced range won't even be noticeable.
• The reload speed increase is 40%. FORTY PERCENT! That's close to twice as fast, so even if you're dealing 50% of the damage (at long range), you are shooting almost twice as fast and therefore the damage is almost the same. But at close range you literally just have a stock Thunder with much faster firing rate.

And another important point is that the faster you fire, the less significant each shot is, meaning that a missed shot when you're shooting quickly won't be as big of a deal compared to missing a shot when you have a longer reload. Compare missing with Twins or Rico to missing with Railgun or Shaft.

 

So yeah, Sledgehammer may not be particularly OP (although that's arguable), but it is undeniably better than stock Thunder, which is not how alterations are supposed to work. It's like the situation with Twins, where the stock version is much worse than any of the alts.

 

 

 

It's actually 30% but yeah, that's still fast. Shoots almost as fast as a Smoky of its respective tier. 

 

So you see Diesel, Sledgehammer is superior to Stock Thunder. Players have more of a chance against Stock Thunder than they do against Sledgehammer Thunder.

 

I didn't want to say that the sledgehammer rounds is OP because I don't encounter them very much. But who knows, maybe I should buy the alt on tanki's BDay and see what I really think of it.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I didn't want to say that the sledgehammer rounds is OP because I don't encounter them very much. But who knows, maybe I should buy the alt on tanki's BDay and see what I really think of it.

You should hope that it's still usable by then. They may see that it is still popular and nerf it. 

 

8 in 10 Thunders I face in DM battles have Sledgehammer. I've had too many experiences with them to stay silent. 

[Desty 275]

Bought Death Herald for Railgun yesterday and man, it is SO much fun. Combined with booster you can one-shot even heavy hulls if they don't have DA or Railgun protection, so if you get lucky, you can rapid-fire 4 or 5 shots and get as many kills. I thought Rail was terrible for DM and it was rare to see one take first place, yet I just got first about 10 battles in a row.

I absolutely agree! 4-5 kills in 5 second @ start of the battle in CTF when people don't have double armors on yet. Was a blast, yet the amount of railgun protections is still ridiculous. Booster is so OP on small maps. Try it with new attacking type isida(1 second to kill light hull without double armor) and insta reload alt aswell or Rico with berserker(instant reload), both very fun. 

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

I absolutely agree! 4-5 kills in 5 second @ start of the battle in CTF when people don't have double armors on yet. Was a blast, yet the amount of railgun protections is still ridiculous. Booster is so OP on small maps. Try it with new attacking type isida(1 second to kill light hull without double armor) and insta reload alt aswell or Rico with berserker(instant reload), both very fun. 

have you tried booster drone with hammer adaptive reload? because it says destroying an enemy adds 2 shots to clip, i was wondering if it was possible to stock up 10 shots in your clip if you kill a lot of people with a few shots while booster is active..

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

have you tried booster drone with hammer adaptive reload? because it says destroying an enemy adds 2 shots to clip, i was wondering if it was possible to stock up 10 shots in your clip if you kill a lot of people with a few shots while booster is active..

That's not how it works. It refills your ammo to a maximum of 3 shots. 

 

 

You kill someone with your first shot, you will have 3 left.

 

You kill someone on your second shot, you will have 3 left.

 

You kill someone on your last shot, you will have 2 shots left. 

[Maf 32,300]

... insta reload alt aswell or Rico with berserker(instant reload), both very fun. 

I tried both of these and I find them quite hard to use, although I only tried DM. You have to get quite lucky with the kills and be good at choosing your targets, otherwise someone steals your kill and you not only end up wasting the Booster, but you're then just sitting there with an empty energy tank and super slow reload.

That's not how it works. It refills your ammo to a maximum of 3 shots. 

 

 

You kill someone with your first shot, you will have 3 left.

 

You kill someone on your second shot, you will have 3 left.

 

You kill someone on your last shot, you will have 2 shots left. 

I was actually wondering about how it worked. I want to try that alt also.

[Desty 275]

have you tried booster drone with hammer adaptive reload? because it says destroying an enemy adds 2 shots to clip, i was wondering if it was possible to stock up 10 shots in your clip if you kill a lot of people with a few shots while booster is active..

 

We have to take consideration that M3+ hammer reload speed between shots(not extended to clip reload) is 1.8s. Booster drone at max MU is 5 seconds, so you can do 2 shots. Same as duplet basically, 2 shots in that 5 second drone period. But  to answer to your question, no, I have not tried.

[Desty 275]

I tried both of these and I find them quite hard to use, although I only tried DM. You have to get quite lucky with the kills and be good at choosing your targets, otherwise someone steals your kill and you not only end up wasting the Booster, but you're then just sitting there with an empty energy tank and super slow reload.

I was actually wondering about how it worked. I want to try that alt also.

I would not know about DM, but it must be decent still in a small map such as Polygon. In CTF, many people stay at their base to defend the flag, which is where booster really paid off with rico. I mean 1.2k-1.6k damage per shot with 0.5s intervals :)

Edited January 30, 2019 by Desty

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

We have to take consideration that M3+ hammer reload speed between shots(not extended to clip reload) is 1.8s. Booster drone at max MU is 5 seconds, so you can do 2 shots. Same as duplet basically, 2 shots in that 5 second drone period. But  to answer to your question, no, I have not tried.

okay thanks.. I already got my answer from congo spider but just saying... m4 hammer on booster drone does 4320 damage per shot.... so you can kill maybe 3 tanks in one shot if they're fighting each other in DM or fighting for a gold, so... if my theory works then you could get 6 extra shots from just using 1 shot

[Desty 275]

okay thanks.. I already got my answer from congo spider but just saying... m4 hammer on booster drone does 4320 damage per shot.... so you can kill maybe 3 tanks in one shot if they're fighting each other in DM or fighting for a gold, so... if my theory works then you could get 6 extra shots from just using 1 shot

Worth to try for sure, if you already own that alteration! Good luck.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Desty

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

okay thanks.. I already got my answer from congo spider but just saying... m4 hammer on booster drone does 4320 damage per shot.... so you can kill maybe 3 tanks in one shot if they're fighting each other in DM or fighting for a gold, so... if my theory works then you could get 6 extra shots from just using 1 shot

It would be interesting to play with Hammer if it actually worked like that.  :D

 

 

Worth to try for sure, if you already own that alteration! Good luck.

It doesn't work like that but it's still good nonetheless. So far, it works best in Polygon CP battles. 

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

It would be interesting to play with Hammer if it actually worked like that.  :D

 

 

It doesn't work like that but it's still good nonetheless. So far, it works best in Polygon CP battles. 

imo that is how it should work. because that's what it says in the wiki, adds 2 shots to the clip! and they didn't say anything about maximum 3 shots

[GorgoBlesk 831]

okay thanks.. I already got my answer from congo spider but just saying... m4 hammer on booster drone does 4320 damage per shot.... so you can kill maybe 3 tanks in one shot if they're fighting each other in DM or fighting for a gold, so... if my theory works then you could get 6 extra shots from just using 1 shot

Good luck with getting triple kills with Hammer. It is nearly impossible. If you really manage to get a triple kill with Hammer in MM battle, you can post it on youtube and become famous xD

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

imo that is how it should work. because that's what it says in the wiki, adds 2 shots to the clip! and they didn't say anything about maximum 3 shots

Heh, this is where remembering the Wiki's information comes in. 

 

Hammer has a non-upgradeable parameter that sets its number of shots per clip to 3 unless acted upon by an alteration. So far, the only two alterations that change this number are High-Capacity Drum and Duplet; by +2 and -1 respectively.   Other than those two, nothing can change the parameter. This now leads to Adaptive Reload.

 

"Instant refill of the current ammo clip"

This alone should tell you that it goes up to 3 shots per clip. Refilling the clip means filling it to maximum capacity...which is 3 shots. 

 

The part that says "Destroying an enemy adds two shots to the clip" can cause confusion but a little common sense would tell players that stocking more than 3 shots in a clip is unbalanced. It is good to consider the description and the effect description to be accurate. If one of them seems to be off compared to the other, always go with the "weaker" one, because it makes sense. 

 

 

Good luck with getting triple kills with Hammer. It is nearly impossible. If you really manage to get a triple kill with Hammer in MM battle, you can post it on youtube and become famous xD

I've only gotten double kills. It would be great to see someone get a triple kill. Especially, and preferably, if they're using Stock Hammer and if they don't have double damage activated. 

Edited January 31, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[Astute_T.O 63]

 

A post this long would attract anyone's attention and readers wouldn't bother to read it entirely due to it's length. No, you aren't the only one who thinks Firebird is waay too OP. I know as i'm a railgunner and have enough of firebird and freeze.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

 

I have so many things to discuss and get off my chest about alterations that shouldn't be in the same post. I'll be patient and tackle them one at a time after I receive feedback from each. 

 

First thing is...the logic of alterations. 

 

 

Some alterations make sense. Alterations such as Compact Tanks  <_<, Corrosive Mix and Support Nanobots make sense because their mechanics of which has to be done in order to achieve their effects are logical. 

 

Compact Tanks because you're burning the fuel faster which would lead to a more intense flame. 

 

Corrosive Mix because you're removing the agent that produces the freezing effect in favour of an acid mixture to do more damage. 

 

Support Nanobots because you're taking the nanobots that damage enemies and configuring them to heal allies which would lead to a damage decrease and a healing increase.

 

 

Some alterations, however, do not make sense or do not make complete sense. Let's discuss those. Feel free to disagree with me and give feedback on my points. 

 

 

Incendiary Mix: Yes, the damage increase makes sense but the thing is, if a fire is more intense to the point where the damage is increased, wouldn't it burn even more? The closest thing example I can use to disagree with what I stated is being burned by a clothes iron. It is hot off the bat but when it touches you and your skin sustains damage, it wouldn't feel as if it were still "on fire" unlike somewhere on your body being inflamed. 

 

Incendiary Band: For the (partially unnoticeable) sake of balance., the damage is increased by 10%. That's alright. However, the fact that that this has to be an alteration itself doesn't make sense. About a month after Vulcan was released, I found myself wondering: "Wait, Vulcan overheats right? If a machine gun overheats, wouldn't the bullets overheat too? And if the bullets are heated, wouldn't it do damage like a Firebird? Eh, whatever."  I forgot about that up until they brought out the Incendiary Band alteration. 

 

When the Vulcan overheats, so does the tank. When the tank overheats, the bullets do as well. When a Firebird is shooting at a Vulcan, both the tank and the Vulcan are heated yet the bullets aren't heated at all. It is rather inconsistent with the mechanics of other turrets heating the Vulcan. The description states that it happens when firing continuously. Does this mean that the heat generating from the turret itself is different from the heat generated from Firebird or Smoky's alteration? I would disagree because of the "Firemarked" (Came up with that myself) mechanic.

Let's say a Smoky with the Incendiary Rounds alteration or a Hammer with the Dragon's Breath alteration hit a target and ignite them. The target is firemarked by them. Let's say a Firebird comes in now and starts shooting the target and increases the temperature of the target even more. The tick damage would belong to the Smoky or the Hammer. Whoever first ignites the target would be the one do tick damage if any other ignition-based turrets come into play and shoot the target. 

 

Why is that important? The reason why is because when overheating, you firemark yourself. You are the one doing the tick damage to yourself. Picture this: You're overheating. A Firebird comes up to you and shoots you for 3 seconds. You kill the Firebird. Your life is running low and soon after, you die from the heat. What happens? It counts as a self destruct because you are the one doing the tick damage to yourself and not the Firebird. This is a (I doubt at this point) hidden advantage of having Incendiary Band, Dragon's Breath and Incendiary Rounds. This would prove that the heat that is produced by the Vulcan itself is the same as the heat produced by Firebird, SMoky and Hammer. This means that that too is inconsistent about the alteration. 

 

 

 

I would have done Subcalibre Rounds for Thunder but I won't for I lack the knowledge of military equipment. 

 

I'm too confused about it to talk about Sledgehammer Rounds for Thunder.

 

 

Electromagnetic Accelerator "Scout": My only problem with this is that it does not give a decrease in impact force. If you're able to load the shells faster then that may mean it's lighter. If it's lighter, then it means that the damage would be lower. If it is lighter and the damage is lowered, then wouldn't the impact force not be as much as a regular heavier shot? 

 

Large Calibre Rounds: The same thing goes for this one. Longer reload, heavier/larger bullet and a longer charge up time should increase impact force instead of leaving it the same as Stock Railgun. 

 

 

Hyperspace Rounds: Oh boy. This was the one that made me start looking at the other alterations for logic errors. Just by looking at the new alterations for rail, you could see that almost all of them are "Improvements" and not "Alterations". This one is a good example of devs trying to please the distraught high-rank Railgun users. Let's get into this one. 

 

The alteration decreases the MAXIMUM damage by 10%. Not even the minimum damage too, just the maximum. With that, you wouldn't really notice a difference since your shots almost always deal different damages within the range. The considerable difference is the impact force but the alteration's feature doesn't highlight that debuff. The pro is that the penetration damage doubles for each tank it goes through. That right there...made no sense to me. 

 

Let's assume that speed = damage. You are moving at 100 Km/h. You hit and penetrate right through an obstacle. Immediately after doing so, your speed is decreased to 90 Km/h. Hitting the next obstacle would decrease it to 80 Km/h which would decrease your damage again. The speed is decreased which means that the damage would also be decreased. Hyperspace Rounds, however, isn't like that. Hyperspace rounds is like:

 

You are moving at 100 Km/h. You hit and penetrate right through an obstacle. Immediately after doing so, your speed increases to 200 Km/h. After hitting the second tank, your speed increases to 400 Km/h and after hitting the third tank, it increases to 800 Km/h. It just doesn't make sense. It's supposed to either slow you down or keep you at the same speed. 

 

Now let's look at it from the description's perspective. Each tank is "an additional chance to accelerate". I wanna imagine that there is a dash panel (Mario Kart's dash panel if you're confused) hidden in every tank just to only be used by the shot from this alteration. "Damage from such rounds increases each time they break through a target"- The only way I can see this working is if the, assuming that the shell maintains maximum speed after penetrating the hull, shell's tip rips off part of the metal plating from the hull after penetrating it and keeps it there on top of it then hits another tank for more damage but that damage could never be two times higher than the last one if that's the case. 

 

 

These are my thoughts about them. If you have anything you disagree on, let me know why you disagree. Let me remind you that this is taken from what I'm assuming to be the average player's mind so no extensive research was done for this. The only bit of research I did was to try to explain why Subcalibre Rounds made no sense but it's just after midnight here and my eyes are hurting me.

 

 

 

It took me hours to write this (partly due to me having to do other things while I was writing it) and it seems to have been forgotten so I'll put it here again in a spoiler so it wouldn't take up a big part of the page. 

 

These are my thoughts on the logic of the alterations and what changes should be made for some of them. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

If I get at least an m2 smoky with auto cannon alt, I plan on laying a brick on the space bar. :ph34r:

[wolverine848 13,097]

If I get at least an m2 smoky with auto cannon alt, I plan on laying a brick on the space bar. :ph34r:

Join the Club - shootings great!      Gorrilla Tape works good too.

[GorgoBlesk 831]

If I get at least an m2 smoky with auto cannon alt, I plan on laying a brick on the space bar. :ph34r:

You should buy Incendiary alt. I have it and it is really strong.

[Smoky_Donkey 29]

When are they nerfing Smoky Incendiary Alt.  

 

Does more damage than Critical and you need two different modules to get full protection form one hit.

 

I dont understand why Incendiary alt should be nerfed...

;)

 

[ZloyDanuJI 409]

"Instant refill of the current ammo clip"

This alone should tell you that it goes up to 3 shots per clip. Refilling the clip means filling it to maximum capacity...which is 3 shots. 

you know what the  :)  :)  :)  :) does that mean? refill? refill means it's supposed to fill the ammo clip which means if you kill someone with your last shot you're supposed to have 3 shots instantly loaded again. 

 

so one says you instantly get your total 3 shots, the other says you get 2 more shots for each kill. there is no weaker one to listen to. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

you know what the  :)  :)  :)  :) does that mean? refill? refill means it's supposed to fill the ammo clip which means if you kill someone with your last shot you're supposed to have 3 shots instantly loaded again. 

 

so one says you instantly get your total 3 shots, the other says you get 2 more shots for each kill. there is no weaker one to listen to. 

The weaker one is obviously the one that says it reloads 2 shots. Why? If you kill an enemy with your last shot of the clip and it instantly refills, it means it gave you 3 shots. If it only gave you 2 shots, then that means it's the weaker one. 

 

 

Edit: I tested it out earlier today and apparently, you don't get the two shots loaded into your Hammer if the enemy died via your mine supply.  

Edited February 10, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[A-Thunder-Dragons 1]

PLASMA GUN ALTERATION

Hey the plasma gun is great but i think some features are really stupid and i would like to discuss it. 

 

According to wiki -

Reload: -50% 

Minimum damage: -25% 
Maximum damage: -25% 
Projectile speed: -75% 
Maximum number of ricochets: =1 

 

According to me -

Reload: -50% 

Time taken for charge to go up: (i dont know how much % will it be better but now it recharges really slow. It should go up faster than the original version +%  

Maximum number of ricochets: 0

Minimum and maximum damage: -15% (maybe but please dmg reduction is too high. Damage should be ruduced but not this much 

Minimum range: -%  (devs decide i really donno about that game mechanics)

Projectile speed: -75% 

 

 

That ends the topic. Hope the developers look forward to it it would make it much more better. Since speed is too low if the shot ricochets it looks stupid. Also i decreased rage as recharge is increased as shots are so slow no one will be standing still to get hit.

Edited February 15, 2019 by A-Thunder-Dragons