Let's Discuss Augments

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Ever since the TJR implementation, I've been seeing a surge of Duplet Hammers up in Legend battles, not only in TJR, but other battle mode. The Duplet sightings had seemed to dwindle with every nerf it got and now it's suddenly being used again (Hammer in general, and all of them are Duplets now instead of anything else). 

 

 

Most of them were using Viking. I understand how it's powerful against the Juggernauts, but it's in other battle modes as well and it's confusing me. Thankfully, it doesn't feel as bad as it was when it was first implemented, but it's still sucks to get spawnkilled by one because Hornet and Wasp stand absolutely no chance without protection against Hammer. Hammer with Viking's Overdrive is a beast. I spawned as the Juggernaut and an enemy activated their Viking's Overdrive with it. That thing single-handedly killed me while I was trying to run away. Juggernaut drifts so much already and the fact that most of the pellets were colliding with the back half of my tank, made me lose control almost totally. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Ever since the TJR implementation, I've been seeing a surge of Duplet Hammers up in Legend battles, not only in TJR, but other battle mode. The Duplet sightings had seemed to dwindle with every nerf it got and now it's suddenly being used again (Hammer in general, and all of them are Duplets now instead of anything else). 

 

 

Most of them were using Viking. I understand how it's powerful against the Juggernauts, but it's in other battle modes as well and it's confusing me. Thankfully, it doesn't feel as bad as it was when it was first implemented, but it's still sucks to get spawnkilled by one because Hornet and Wasp stand absolutely no chance without protection against Hammer. Hammer with Viking's Overdrive is a beast. I spawned as the Juggernaut and an enemy activated their Viking's Overdrive with it. That thing single-handedly killed me while I was trying to run away. Juggernaut drifts so much already and the fact that most of the pellets were colliding with the back half of my tank, made me lose control almost totally. 

Yep, time to equip Wolf module again. :ph34r:

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Yep, time to equip Wolf module again. :ph34r:

The thing is, I had 40% Wolf protection on in that battle because of the many Hammers I encountered in battles prior to that. So knowing that, I'd've died a lot sooner than I did. I can't defend myself against an overdriven Hammer because of Juggernaut drifting and Hammer's impact force. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

The thing is, I had 40% Wolf protection on in that battle because of the many Hammers I encountered in battles prior to that. So knowing that, I'd've died a lot sooner than I did. I can't defend myself against an overdriven Hammer because of Juggernaut drifting and Hammer's impact force. 

Ouch... :( Duplet need nerf!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Ouch... :( Duplet need nerf!

Ehh, idk. If so, then this time, instead of focusing on the clip reload, how about focusing on the shot reload? The problem with suggesting that is that the devs said they didn't want to change the double-shot mechanic as that was deemed "cool". 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Ehh, idk. If so, then this time, instead of focusing on the clip reload, how about focusing on the shot reload? The problem with suggesting that is that the devs said they didn't want to change the double-shot mechanic as that was deemed "cool".

 

Or just simply nerf the damage per shot that it puts out. :rolleyes:

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Or just simply nerf the damage per shot that it puts out. :rolleyes:

Hmm, by how much though? A nerf like this would have been applicable back when the clip reload speed was -20%. Now, that feels like overkill depending on how much you want to reduce it by. 

 

It does have to stay competitive against Stock Hammer. Stock hammer is generally better than Duplet if it's going up against a medium hull on equal footing and getting maximum damage every shot. Duplet is better when going up against a light hull head-on and a heavy hull.

 

With Double damage though, that changes.

Duplet generally becomes better at taking down light huls. Sure, Stock can one-shot the light hull, but what if one of the pellets miss and you end up dealing only 90-95% of their HP. They can use DA and RK and then engage you. Duplet will make sure with that second shot that it's dead. 

Duplet becomes better at taking down medium hulls. 

Stock generally becomes better at taking down heavy hulls. Duplet requires all pellets to hit in order to kill the heavy hull with the clip. Stock has a third shot to make up for a pellet missing, although that third shot comes out ~4 seconds after the first shot happens, which by that time, the Duplet already reloaded 80% of its clip. 

 

If the damage is to be decreased, then depending on how much it decreases, take away the reload penalty, or give it -10% clip reload or something like that. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Hmm, by how much though? A nerf like this would have been applicable back when the clip reload speed was -20%. Now, that feels like overkill depending on how much you want to reduce it by. 

 

It does have to stay competitive against Stock Hammer. Stock hammer is generally better than Duplet if it's going up against a medium hull on equal footing and getting maximum damage every shot. Duplet is better when going up against a light hull head-on and a heavy hull.

 

With Double damage though, that changes.

Duplet generally becomes better at taking down light huls. Sure, Stock can one-shot the light hull, but what if one of the pellets miss and you end up dealing only 90-95% of their HP. They can use DA and RK and then engage you. Duplet will make sure with that second shot that it's dead. 

Duplet becomes better at taking down medium hulls. 

Stock generally becomes better at taking down heavy hulls. Duplet requires all pellets to hit in order to kill the heavy hull with the clip. Stock has a third shot to make up for a pellet missing, although that third shot comes out ~4 seconds after the first shot happens, which by that time, the Duplet already reloaded 80% of its clip. 

 

If the damage is to be decreased, then depending on how much it decreases, take away the reload penalty, or give it -10% clip reload or something like that.

 

A 30% damage nerf should suffice.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I decided to use Missile Launcher "Cyclone" again for Mammoth hunting. So I go up to the highest point in the map and I put my laser on a mammoth. It fills, slowly. Then the Mammoth dies to a Railgun shot. i switch to another Mammoth and the same happens, before it even reaches halfway.

 

I'm looking at how long it takes for an M3 8/20 Cyclone Striker to lock on and it's abhorrent. I don't see why these people are using it in non-Juggernaut MM battles. It's really impractical considering that 4 missiles are usually enough. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

I decided to use Missile Launcher "Cyclone" again for Mammoth hunting. So I go up to the highest point in the map and I put my laser on a mammoth. It fills, slowly. Then the Mammoth dies to a Railgun shot. i switch to another Mammoth and the same happens, before it even reaches halfway.

 

I'm looking at how long it takes for an M3 8/20 Cyclone Striker to lock on and it's abhorrent. I don't see why these people are using it in non-Juggernaut MM battles. It's really impractical considering that 4 missiles are usually enough.

 

If you wanted extra torque in damage, it's better to either use the uranium alteration or the booster drone.

[Okami 3,041]

I decided to use Missile Launcher "Cyclone" again for Mammoth hunting. So I go up to the highest point in the map and I put my laser on a mammoth. It fills, slowly. Then the Mammoth dies to a Railgun shot. i switch to another Mammoth and the same happens, before it even reaches halfway.

 

I'm looking at how long it takes for an M3 8/20 Cyclone Striker to lock on and it's abhorrent. I don't see why these people are using it in non-Juggernaut MM battles. It's really impractical considering that 4 missiles are usually enough.

I tried Cyclone on the Test Server, and I just couldn't launch the salvo. It takes forever to load, and Striker needs a buff so that losing the target takes the same amount of time as Gauss.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I tried Cyclone on the Test Server, and I just couldn't launch the salvo. It takes forever to load, and Striker needs a buff so that losing the target takes the same amount of time as Gauss.

Oh yeah, that was a major concern with Cyclone as well. When the Mammoths went behind cover, the acquisition reticle went away so quickly. Perhaps Striker also needs the 2-second grace period as well. 

[Okami 3,041]

the acquisition reticle went away so quickly. Perhaps Striker also needs the 2-second grace period as well. 

 

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Wasn't sure how to explain it in my original post.

[wolverine848 13,097]

Oh yeah, that was a major concern with Cyclone as well. When the Mammoths went behind cover, the acquisition reticle went away so quickly. Perhaps Striker also needs the 2-second grace period as well. 

"grace period"... is that the "aiming recovery time"?  Both have 1 second at all m-levels.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

"grace period"... is that the "aiming recovery time"?  Both have 1 second at all m-levels.

Yss, that's what that is. 

 

Gauss has 2 seconds of aiming recovery time. 

[wolverine848 13,097]

Yss, that's what that is. 

 

Gauss has 2 seconds of aiming recovery time. 

Not according to WIKI.  Guess it's out of date?   And yes, striker really could use 2 seconds there... not sure why Gauss would have an advantage

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Not according to WIKI.  Guess it's out of date?   And yes, striker really could use 2 seconds there... not sure why Gauss would have an advantage

Yeah, I guess it's out of date. 

 

And I'm not seeing the acquisition time parameter anywhere on Gauss' page. That "Aiming time" parameter is wrong. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Why must Incendiary Mix have enough ammo to 1 v 6 an enemy team? It just shoots forever. And then it hides for 6 seconds and it has its ammo fully replenished. 

[Ninja 10,468]

Why must Incendiary Mix have enough ammo to 1 v 6 an enemy team? It just shoots forever. And then it hides for 6 seconds and it has its ammo fully replenished. 

Thats gotta be one clueless enemy team.

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

Why must Incendiary Mix have enough ammo to 1 v 6 an enemy team? It just shoots forever. And then it hides for 6 seconds and it has its ammo fully replenished. 

Tactic

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Thats gotta be one clueless enemy team.

It happens when those 6 players are somewhat bunched together. It deals insane damage and can eat through the unprotected enemies in 1.5-2 seconds, then goes onto the others with 8 seconds of ammo remaining. It has happened to me 3 times so far. 

 

I stand no chance as a light hull against them. It has too much ammo, for what it is able to do. And its reload recovers too much of that ammo too quickly. 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

I happen to took a peek of Alternation:

http://forum.3dtank.com/index.php?showtopic=22523

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I happen to took a peek of Alternation:

http://forum.3dtank.com/index.php?showtopic=22523

V I B R A T I O N      F R E E Z E

 

[FrozenRailgun 1,771]

V I B R A T I O N      F R E E Z E

 

Wait, you actually visited PRC server? :blink:  :blink:

Edited November 12, 2019 by FrozenRailgun

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Wait, you actually visited PRC server? :blink:  :blink:

Mhmm. I already say the DE and RU auto-translations of Alteration names so I wanted to see what the Chinese names translate to, and I like some of 'em. 

 

Visited the Chinese Forum as well.