Let's Discuss Magnum!

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

i really liked the reinforced gun carriage alteration

1. it helps me in past paced MM battles and is easy to use.

 

But i have a problem with Mortar alteration. From the description of this alteration i was made to believe that the mines from my magnum last till the battle ends but this is not so.. they ' do not just remain at the spot so somebody can blow them over.. the mines actually disappear after about 30 seconds.. why is this information not mentioned in the description or anywhere else... i did not know about this folly when i bought it i feel this is not right. pls help.

 

hey pls read my post before this one ... i am complaining about how the mines from magnum alteration mortar do not last more that 30 seconds .

This is why it is important to be up-to-date with the Patch Notes and to look at the Wiki for the game time before making your purchases. Wouldn't hurt to ask around the Forum or the in-game chat either. 

 

And think about it, do you really think it's balanced to have mines stay there forever? Always ask around if you're skeptical. It may clear up misconceptions or misunderstandings you may have.

 

Bought the RGC alt for Magnum during the sale. It's alright I guess, but pretty confusing. Magnum is that way no matter the Alteration, but 3° is a pretty weird angle. At the moment I regret buying it, but I guess I'll have to get used to it.

'Twas 5 degrees before its change. You can still reach the distance you would with 5 degrees just by rocking your hull with the right shot velocity. 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

bye the way how good is the auto loader ( which costs 20k crystals) .?

Automated Gunpowder Loading Mechanism? It is good if you intend to shoot shots that are at a velocity of 35% or higher immediately after another. 

 

This alteration receive a nerf when Stock Magnum received its latest buff. With this specific nerf, I advise that you use this alteration if you plan on staying in the back or middle of the map and lobbing shots, as that is where your value becomes higher than Stock Magnum.

 

That is the gist of it. I didn't go into to many details. 

[Initiate 1,306]

If you absolutely have to, then Mortar still has enough leeway to one-shot medium hulls. You're not going to be one-shotting light hulls anymore though. 

:blink:  :huh:

 

'Twas 5 degrees 

You're sure your name isn't Anya?  :rolleyes:

Edited September 29, 2019 by Initiate

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

You're sure your name isn't Anya?  :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure.  :)

 

:blink:  :huh:

It's only a 15% decrease in the maximum damage, and not both maximum and minimum. The average damage of a Mortar Magnum is a little under what is needed to one-shot a medium hull with double damage, but it has enough damage on the "lucky side" of the damage distribution to slightly less than comfortably one-shot medium hulls. I am reminded of its unnecessary buff every day when my Dictator and Hunter keep getting one-shotted by them. 

[Initiate 1,306]

 

You said I might one-shot medium hulls but definitely not LIGHT hulls? Are Russian out of your mind?

 

Just kidding, of course, I know it was a typo.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

You said I might one-shot medium hulls but definitely not LIGHT hulls? Are Russian out of your mind?

Sorry for the confusion:

 

Stock Magnum's maximum damage on all modifications is high enough to one-shot light hulls of its respective tiers on equal footing. So a supplyless Magnum is able to kill a supplyless light hull in one shot.

 

In order to one-shot medium hulls, double damage must be used. Stock Magnum's damage range is wide. It will only require about the average damage of the Magnum (with double damage) to kill a medium hull. Against an M4 medium hull, you only need 3,000 damage. 3,000 damage would be found at 1,500 damage pre-double damage.

M4 Magnum's damage range is 1160-2330 and its average damage is 1745. The average damage of the Magnum is a good bit higher than what is needed to one-shot the medium hull with double damage, which concludes that Stock Magnum can comfortably one-shot medium hulls (with double damage). 

 

 

Now onto Mortar: 

 

Mortar has a 15% decrease in the maximum damage. With this decrease, the maximum damage is just under what is needed to one-shot light hulls of its respective tiers. 

 

M4 Mortar maximum damage: 1,980

 

M4 light hull HP: 2,000

 

Supplyliess light hulls now do not have to worry about being one-shotted by supplyless Mortar Magnums of the same tier. 

 

 

With the decrease in the maximum damage, comes with the decrease of the likelihood of one-shotting medium hulls with double damage. The average damage remains more than what is needed, but it is barely more. Meaning you essentially have a split 50/50 damage distribution. Think of it like having a damage range of 1,000 - 2,000, and you'd only need 1,500 to kill someone with double damage. As it is now 50/50, you are less comfortable taking on medium hulls now that you don't have your large maximum damage number. It is smaller and you now have less leeway to one-shot them, which is why it one-shots them "less than comfortably" as you would with Stock Magnum. 

Just kidding, of course, I know it was a typo.

What was a typo? 

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

my thoughts on magnum:

this should have never been added to the game and has no place in it. the game relies heavily on using cover to gain an advantage in battle, and using that cover strategically to be effective. magnum takes away this entire idea. it can shoot over cover, and has ridiculous splash damage so when shot at the side of cover it does massive damage to. 

the game should work on this principle: "you should always be able to avoid damage with skill." and for the most part you can, by using cover well, knowing maps and positioning yourself in places that are advantageous in the scenario. magnum take that idea and throws it in the bin. a magnum can have perfect line of sight on me, while i have absolutely no way to avoid damage or even fire back at them to either kill them or knock there aim off. 

the only counter to that is shaft or another magnum, and shaft would take alot more skill to hit a barrel shot than it would for the magnum to do similar damage without even exposing themselves.

its a completely unfair turret and requires no skill to use in more circumstances than any other weapon (other than something like a melee weapon at barrel touching range, but thats fine because you at least have to get close to use a melee weapon, if someone can use there skills to get close then  they deserve the damage they do).

magnums splash damage radius is so ridiculously large that you could be aiming for 1 guy and hit his team mates that are like 2 tanks distance away from them, and apparently that takes skill? just shoot in the general direction if your enemy, you are pretty much guaranteed damage, and alot of it.

 

onto its alterations, mortar is op. anyone who argues otherwise clearly uses it all the time. wow, 15% less damage, what a shame, dont worry though, because you will place a mine that makes up for that lost damage multiple times, oh and did i forget to mention that you receive no splash radius penalty? BALANCED BOYS!!. 

the reinforced turret carriage or whatever its called, right so you might lose some range, how sad, never fear though! you can just sit on a slope to get that range back, oh, and now you can hit people to the sides even easier than before (as if it wasnt easy enough with a splash radius that covers half the map). 

there is only 1 "balanced" magnum alt, the one that charges your power faster. and even then it doesnt matter, because its on a magnum.

 

this turret should be removed in all honesty and player who bought it should be compensated. 

but since the devs never remove anything, ever, even if it would balance the game, maybe a compromise could be made:

 

remove mortar, make power build up on reinforced carriage slower, half magnums splash radius but make the damage dissolve slower over that radius, lower its damage by 17.5%, make the reload a bit slower, make the lowest angle of fire 25 degrees. then, and only then, it might fulfill its role as a long range turret that takes careful planning of the shot to deliver a large amount of damage in a area. not just a "shoot it, kill everyone in a 20 mile radius without any kind of thought put into it" gun.

 

thank you for reading. 

[Initiate 1,306]

 

Nope, I can guarantee you it doesn't take skill to take top spots in battles. I bought Magnum on a WO2 account, and with RGC/Hunter I'm getting direct hits almost every time, with stock it took about 30 minutes practice before I knew roughly how far a shell would go, so I can get 500-600 damage consistently.

Of course, I cannot accurately kill campers - but I don't need to. Stock is boring but easy to play with - and super un-intense.

[The-Kill-Switch 30]

hey magnum requires a very skilled tanker to use it efficiently and up to it's full potential .. it is very hard to correctly gauge the distance of an enemy.. the correct angle and power required to correctly hit the enemy.. hence there are high chances that a seasoned magnum user will not strike the enemy tank with 100percent accuracy ... this is one of the reasons why it has such a large area of splash damage ... and as for the alterations of magnum.. MORTAR sounds very OP but it's mines disappear after every 30 seconds and while using the reinforced gun carriage alteration you do not get to see the power percentage of your shot.. so it is EVEN harder to strike at longer distances.. my advice for you to avoid magnum shots is to constantly be on the run and change your direction and try to hit the magnum user while you are running... if you are agile enough on the battle ground.. the magnum's shot will hardly even tickle you as it's projectiles take some time to travel distances.

let me give you a fairly realistic scenario: your on serpuhov, red team. you are trying to push up to the blue base from either the middle road, left bridge, under the bridge, or the right lower path. a magnum camping behind the wall right of the back house on blue base (right relative to blue side) can hit you in any of those positions, and those positions cover all of the map aside from the path along the far right of red base (where blue players defend anyway). throughout the entire push you cannot fire at the magnum without being a magnum, they are experiencing very little risk, but a high reward.

yeah i get that it needs splash damage to compensate for it being difficult to hit directly, but its splash range is way too wide. hence why i suggested a reduction in range, but damage within the lower range dissolves slower than normal, so its proportionate. 

 

as for mortar, 30 seconds is way too long when you can place 9 or 10 mines down in that time. you can constantly have the map on lockdown without even exposing yourself what so ever. and even if you are moving side to side, if you arent a light hull then at medium range you will still take a massive hit from splash, this should not be the case considering magnum is supposed to be a long range weapon. 

the reinforced gun carriage makes magnum even more effective at short-medium range, but its not meant to be a medium or short range weapon, its meant to be long range.

 

my overall point is that the risk:reward ration with magnum isnt balanced. you can do so much with it, without even having the possibility of taking damage. and it doesnt take a good player to place a tone of mines all over the place, to hide behind a wall and be able to hit anyone making any kind of push with damage. also the thing is yeah you might not hit directly, but that doesnt matter because you are still doing damage, without facing any risks, its free damage so the amount isnt really important, its the fact that you got damage off without even exposing yourself to the possibility of damage.

 

with every other gun in the game (besides projectile weapons where you can fire and then get behind a wall and lead the enemy into the shot [takes skill to do]) you have to at least expose yourself a little to do damage to someone. magnum, thats not the case.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Feedback: 

 

its a completely unfair turret and requires no skill to use in more circumstances than any other weapon (other than something like a melee weapon at barrel touching range, but thats fine because you at least have to get close to use a melee weapon, if someone can use there skills to get close then  they deserve the damage they do).

Magnum requires skill to aim accurately. You have take note of different angles and powers, through mental work and past experiences to get the shot near or on the target. Those Magnums that you see getting kills after kills are the experienced ones who either write down different angles and powers for different vantage points in different maps and use that, or by gut feeling, launch a shot with a guessed angle and power and hit the target or come close. 

 

magnums splash damage radius is so ridiculously large that you could be aiming for 1 guy and hit his team mates that are like 2 tanks distance away from them, and apparently that takes skill? just shoot in the general direction if your enemy, you are pretty much guaranteed damage, and alot of it.

As Magnum requires precise aiming, it is expected to have some sort of compensation for this in the form of high damage, or in Magnum's case, a large splash damage radius. It currently boasts the largest splash damage range of all turrets, which is 21 metres. Gauss comes in 2nd place with 20 metres. 

 

Let me tell you, if Magnum's splash damage distribution was the same as Gauss' splash damage distribution, your opinion of Magnum would be way, way worse. Gauss and Magnum have the same average splash damage % of 90%. The difference is the distance in which 90% of the total damage is retained. For Magnum, it is 6 metres, but for Gauss, it is 12 metres, double that of Magnum. Realistically, you ought to fear Gauss' splash damage more than Magnum's splash damage, because Magnum's splash damage starts to decrease to far earlier.

 

Another thing to remember is like Gauss, Magnum has an RNG element to it, more so in the later modifications. SO sometimes, a shot can hit you from a fairly small distance away from you and take down 30% of your HP, and then the next shot might take down 60% of your HP. The 2nd shot was luckier on the damage distribution than the first shot. 

 

 

onto its alterations, mortar is op. anyone who argues otherwise clearly uses it all the time. wow, 15% less damage, what a shame, dont worry though, because you will place a mine that makes up for that lost damage multiple times, oh and did i forget to mention that you receive no splash radius penalty? BALANCED BOYS!!. 

the reinforced turret carriage or whatever its called, right so you might lose some range, how sad, never fear though! you can just sit on a slope to get that range back, oh, and now you can hit people to the sides even easier than before (as if it wasnt easy enough with a splash radius that covers half the map). 

there is only 1 "balanced" magnum alt, the one that charges your power faster. and even then it doesnt matter, because its on a magnum.

Yes, Mortar is overpowered, I agree on that. I feel like RGC is so powerful because it encourages the user to always get direct hits, which deal the most damage as the splash damage is less. Doing it from a slope though, is hard. Doing it there is hit-or-miss because of the decreased projectile gravitation, but like with learning Magnum, do it enough times and that problem should disappear almost if not completely. 

 

Before its nerf, Automated Gunpowder Loading Mechanism (the one you called balanced) was more powerful than Stock Magnum if you were using it as a player in the back lobbing shots into the enemy base, or using it head-on against enemies at a 0-degree angle. After tits nerf, it is more balanced. 

 

this turret should be removed in all honesty and player who bought it should be compensated. 

but since the devs never remove anything, ever, even if it would balance the game, maybe a compromise could be made:

 

remove mortar, make power build up on reinforced carriage slower, half magnums splash radius but make the damage dissolve slower over that radius, lower its damage by 17.5%, make the reload a bit slower, make the lowest angle of fire 25 degrees. then, and only then, it might fulfill its role as a long range turret that takes careful planning of the shot to deliver a large amount of damage in a area. not just a "shoot it, kill everyone in a 20 mile radius without any kind of thought put into it" gun.

STATISTICS TIME

 

The nerfs you suggested there are very heavy, to put it simply, literally unplayable. Just the 25-degree limit and the RGC nerf is enough really, everything else is just overkill. 

 

Damage ranges after your nerf: 

 

M0: 462-949

 

M1: 622-1264

 

M2: 753-1521

 

M3: 841-1693

 

M4: 957-1840

 

So, you're making it harder to aim, which makes it harder to get direct hits. Secondly, you've reduced the minimum and maximum damage of each shot by a whopping 17.5%, so even if they are able to get that close to or hit the target, their damage is lowered. Then you halved the splash damage radius to 10 metres. But as a "compensation", you made it so that the damage drop off happens slower. The thing is, that is counterproductive if you're halving the overall splash damage radius. Halving it is making it tighter, meaning less room to spread out the splash damage. Making it dissolve slower with your changes will encourage you to hit targets with the shot for full damage, which was decreased...

 

See when you add all that up, as well as outright removing an alteration, it just makes it a worse option than any other turret. Magnums may be seen as a liability unless they're using RGC. And with that new splash damage distribution, you might as well just play with Gauss, since that retains 90% of its damage 2 metres longer than your Magnum's entire splash damage range.

 

And what does the decreased damage mean for Magnum? Well, it will no longer have a guaranteed one-shot on a light hull with double damage. It will no longer have a chance to one-shot heavy hulls with double damage. It will no longer have a chance to one-shot light hulls when they're on equal footing. The average damage of each modifications shot is now not enough to one-shot a medium hull. It actually has more leeway to not one-shot them. Yeah, this nerf is way too much and may make the turret unplayable by today's standards. 

 

---

 

I can sense the frustration coming from your post, which is understandable given the current state of Magnum. Rest assured, they are less violent up in the Legend ranks because of protection modules. However, it's a different story if the Magnum is using Hornet. 

[The-Operator219 1,929]

Imagine if all that guess work/spamming resulted in low damage. There'd be people complaining about Magnum still, especially the users.

[Michael828 816]

When equipped with the RGC alteration, it goes surprisingly well with Wasp.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

When equipped with the RGC alteration, it goes surprisingly well with Wasp.

How's the recoil with it?

 

I'd still pair it with Hornet because of the Overdrive. 

[Michael828 816]

How's the recoil with it?

 

I'd still pair it with Hornet because of the Overdrive. 

The recoil is very bad, I flip over easily if I'm not cautious. But it's compensated by the incredible agility of Wasp.

 

On that account, m1 Wasp was cheaper so I got it. Hornet also feels bulkier and isn't as fun as Wasp is when paired with Magnum.

 

Speaking about the overdrives, I believe Wasp's bomb is in fact underpowered despite all the recent buffs. Very easy to escape from and not enough radius for the real damage to kick in.

[GG_reg 1,521]

How's the recoil with it?

 

I'd still pair it with Hornet because of the Overdrive. 

Magnum's recoil on a hornet is quite big but once you get used to it, it's not a problem. You eventually will learn how to control it and you just know how much you need to turn your turret to the side for certain jumps. And yes definitely, Magnum with Hornet overdrive is pretty much a guaranteed kill.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Magnum's recoil on a hornet is quite big but once you get used to it, it's not a problem. You eventually will learn how to control it and you just know how much you need to turn your turret to the side for certain jumps. And yes definitely, Magnum with Hornet overdrive is pretty much a guaranteed kill.

I have little problems with recoil when I use it with Hornet. The only times it has been negative is shooting a shot to the extreme side of me immediately after decelerating to a halt and then driving backwards. I almost tip over with that but usually catch my footing at the last second. 

Edited October 7, 2019 by TheCongoSpider

[GG_reg 1,521]

I have little problems with recoil when I use it with Hornet. The only times it has been negative is shooting a shot to the extreme side of me immediately after decelerating to a halt and then driving backwards. I almost tip over with that but usually catch my footing at the last second. 

Yeh, it is hard to look 90^o while on a ramp also, but once you practice with it a lot, it should become easy to avoid flipping.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Yeh, it is hard to look 90^o while on a ramp also, but once you practice with it a lot, it should become easy to avoid flipping.

Oh shoot, I was talking about RGC.  :lol:

 

I've only played vertical Magnum on Hornet a few times. Never had a problem with recoil there. 

[GG_reg 1,521]

Oh shoot, I was talking about RGC.  :lol:

 

I've only played vertical Magnum on Hornet a few times. Never had a problem with recoil there. 

Ah OK, that makes more sense  :P

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Ah OK, that makes more sense  :P

This is what I meant by the way: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

Soooo, Magnum nerf, as expected. Were you expecting a lighter or heavier nerf? How do you think this will affect it? 

 

This nerf more impacts Magnums that rely on lobbing shots into the enemy base randomly, like Mortars. With this nerf, it is heavily encouraged to get direct hits. From the 1st metre to the 6th metre, that is a drop of 100% damage to 30% damage. Ideally, this makes it less useful against targets that aren't grouped together touching each other. So those with Magnum protection can live easier if shots are being spammed into their base at random. 

 

As RGC is, by default, encouraged to get direct hits, this shouldn't affect them as much as Mortars. Now, if you do miss and deal splash damage, there is a higher chance they'll survive it and retaliate accordingly.

 

Take aim, artillerists, you'll need the precision. 

[DieselPlatinum 5,121]

Soooo, Magnum nerf, as expected. Were you expecting a lighter or heavier nerf? How do you think this will affect it? 

 

This nerf more impacts Magnums that rely on lobbing shots into the enemy base randomly, like Mortars. With this nerf, it is heavily encouraged to get direct hits. From the 1st metre to the 6th metre, that is a drop of 100% damage to 30% damage. Ideally, this makes it less useful against targets that aren't grouped together touching each other. So those with Magnum protection can live easier if shots are being spammed into their base at random. 

 

As RGC is, by default, encouraged to get direct hits, this shouldn't affect them as much as Mortars. Now, if you do miss and deal splash damage, there is a higher chance they'll survive it and retaliate accordingly.

 

Take aim, artillerists, you'll need the precision.

 

I've noticed a strong rise of magnum usage last night on my main. Maybe this nerf will slow it down a bit.

[TheCongoSpider 8,942]

I've noticed a strong rise of magnum usage last night on my main. Maybe this nerf will slow it down a bit.

Or initiate its population control. 

[Hall_of_Famer 2,124]

Was thinking to buy magnum on halloween but they nerfed it :D

Edited October 12, 2019 by Hall_of_Famer

[Michael282 12]

 

Was thinking to buy magnum on halloween but they nerfed it :D

It's not a harsh nerf actually, I tried it and still found the splash damage useful.