Tanki: Dying... dying... dead?

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

If you like Pay2Win, then play this game k? 

First you tell me that matchmaker works in TX, so it must work in TO. I tell you that matchmaker in TX is necessary by design. Then you write me this? What does P2W have to do with the matchmaker? I said nothing about P2W.

[Lagnadium 54]

The main reason people like me don't bother playing Tanki very often at all is that all my available battles are full of buyer drugger M3's, each one with 10,000 of each supply and then here I am with one M2 hull and 2 M2 turrets and only around 300 of DD and DA and practically no repair kits... And I should waste my time trying? No thanks. Let alone waste my time trying with 0-10 FPS.

[wolverine848 13,097]

The main reason people like me don't bother playing Tanki very often at all is that all my available battles are full of buyer drugger M3's, each one with 10,000 of each supply and then here I am with one M2 hull and 2 M2 turrets and only around 300 of DD and DA and practically no repair kits... And I should waste my time trying? No thanks. Let alone waste my time trying with 0-10 FPS.

Your best bet is to play "normal" battles just enough to get 1 mission completed to keep the weekly chain active.

Do the 'collect # boxes' or CP missions, or experience missions (but not DM - LOTS of supplies used there).

 

Then play Custom battles with supplies off.

[omarhero1 401]

The main reason people like me don't bother playing Tanki very often at all is that all my available battles are full of buyer drugger M3's, each one with 10,000 of each supply and then here I am with one M2 hull and 2 M2 turrets and only around 300 of DD and DA and practically no repair kits... And I should waste my time trying? No thanks. Let alone waste my time trying with 0-10 FPS.

No player has access to M3s at your rank i suppose

[The-Jinx 32]

Part of the problem is all the drugging. To me, druggers are admitting their tank is weak, their weapon is weak and they have no skills. It's easier to pull out the plastic and buy a bunch of supplies than it is to hone skills.

 

So, this is my solution to the drugging problem: Kills made while supplies activated gets less points and kills made without drugs activated gets more points. After all, it takes more skill and more time and energy to make a kill without supplies than it is with supplies. I'd say a kill with drugs loses 1/2 the points of the same kill without drugs. So, if a kill is worth 10 points, the druggers only get 5 points. 

 

Granted, some players prefer not to use supplies, but feel they have to in order to compete or keep from being cannon fodder. But that's because of those players who can't compete without them. And so the dominoes fall. 

 

Sure druggers are still going to drug. It's an addiction and addictions are hard to break. And, yes, they will still the the thrill of the kill if they one-shot everyone. So, the druggers won't lose the Psychopathic Killer instinct. They just won't get paid as much for doing it. 

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

Part of the problem is all the drugging. To me, druggers are admitting their tank is weak, their weapon is weak and they have no skills. It's easier to pull out the plastic and buy a bunch of supplies than it is to hone skills.

 

So, this is my solution to the drugging problem: Kills made while supplies activated gets less points and kills made without drugs activated gets more points. After all, it takes more skill and more time and energy to make a kill without supplies than it is with supplies. I'd say a kill with drugs loses 1/2 the points of the same kill without drugs. So, if a kill is worth 10 points, the druggers only get 5 points. 

 

Granted, some players prefer not to use supplies, but feel they have to in order to compete or keep from being cannon fodder. But that's because of those players who can't compete without them. And so the dominoes fall. 

 

Sure druggers are still going to drug. It's an addiction and addictions are hard to break. And, yes, they will still the the thrill of the kill if they one-shot everyone. So, the druggers won't lose the Psychopathic Killer instinct. They just won't get paid as much for doing it. 

If druggers have weak tanks, how come I see so many M3 and M4 players drugging? Why do I so many skilled players drugging, that would probably win against me in a 1v1? It's easy to fall under the stereotype that druggers have no skill, but often time they are buyers who are dedicated players who have been playing the game for a long time. The idea of "skill" is pretty vague in Tanki and even the skill cap is usually . . . quite low. Of course, there will always be that guy that doesn't know where the and x and z keys are but knows where the 12345 keys are. But in high ranks, drugging is simply part of the meta. Everyone does it, because they can afford it and if they don't drug they can't compete. Eventually it becomes second nature.

 

To address your suggestion that druggers be penalized for using supplies, this is bad. A kill is a kill, no matter what. I don't care how someone gets it, they should be rewarded for it. You make it seem that druggers are all-powerful players slaughtering helpless opposition. In most cases this is not true. (Also calling them psychopathic killers is ridiculous. I've used almost 1k of each supply, I am a psychopathic killer right?) Second, the developers have said multiple times that supplies are a major source of revenue for the game. Penalizing players would not only lead to backlash but also decrease the amount of revenue TO earns. Not good. 

 

If you don't like drugs, buy a pro pass and play supplies-off battles. Or wait until matchmaker comes out when you will be able to create custom battles for free.

Edited August 29, 2017 by ThirdOnion

[The-Jinx 32]

# 1...If druggers have weak tanks, how come I see so many M3 and M4 players drugging? Why do I so many skilled players drugging, that would probably win against me in a 1v1? It's easy to fall under the stereotype that druggers have no skill, #2...but often time they are buyers who are dedicated players who have been playing the game for a long time. The idea of "skill" is pretty vague in Tanki and even the skill cap is usually . . . quite low. Of course, there will always be that guy that doesn't know where the and x and z keys are but knows where the 12345 keys are. But in high ranks, drugging is simply part of the meta. # 3...Everyone does it, because they can afford it and if they don't drug they can't compete. Eventually it becomes second nature.

 

# 4...To address your suggestion that druggers be penalized for using supplies, this is bad. A kill is a kill, no matter what. I don't care how someone gets it, they should be rewarded for it. #5...You make it seem that druggers are all-powerful players slaughtering helpless opposition. In most cases this is not true. #6...(Also calling them psychopathic killers is ridiculous. I've used almost 1k of each supply, I am a psychopathic killer right?) #7..Second, the developers have said multiple times that supplies are a major source of revenue for the game. Penalizing players would not only lead to backlash but also decrease the amount of revenue TO earns. Not good. 

 

If you don't like drugs, buy a pro pass and play supplies-off battles. Or wait until matchmaker comes out when you will be able to create custom battles for free.

I will address each section highlighted in orange:

 

#1 and #3 can be addressed together. You answered #1 with #3. They started drugging as soon as they realized how much more powerful the tank and weapon is with the drugs and they never stopped using them. As I said, an addiction is hard to break. If supplies were taken out of the game, they would be the first to leave. 

 

#2...I've been playing this game since it came out of Beta. My higher ranked accounts used drugs a lot. That was long before MU came into the game. The battles were more balanced then, because it was more F2P with the option to buy. Now it's P2W with the option not to buy. Players were saving their crystals to buy the next upgrade. But back then, there were crystal drops on a regular basis, not at all like now with just the GB drop. Back then, you could get 1K crystals a day a lot easier, than now just by playing battles and gathering the blue crystal boxes. 

 

#4...I didn't say they shouldn't be compensated for a kill. Yes, a kill is a kill, either way the enemy is neutralized. Which takes more skill, the non-drugger playing peek-a-boo from around the corner and making the kill or standing out in the open with drugs activated and one shotting everything that moves and hitting the RK button?  

 

# 5...They are, no doubt about it. If you have a choice between killing an enemy with drugs activated or one who does not, which one would you choose? When I'm in a group of druggers, guess which one gets killed first? I'll give you 3 guesses, the first two don't count. Guess #1: Me. Guess #2: Me  Guess #3: Me, the non-drugger. 

 

# 6...I said "Psychopathic Killer Instinct." When playing CTF or CP, I've seen more players drugging up and playing TDM. Using the same gameplay as you usually do, try being a non-drugger for a day in standard battle, not Pro-Pass.Not even pick any up from the ground and see how many kills you get and how many times you are neutralized. It's all about the kill, not the damage. Against a drugger, many times all I can do and still survive is to do a lot of damage and run. Hopefully, a teammate will kill him before he catches up with me. So, who's the killer? You or me? 

 

# 7...I've seen prices go up and up and up. Even with a sale on, the prices are too high for most non-buyers. How do other games survive without the high prices? In fact, how do they survive without charging for upgrades, supplies, etc.? All there's just the currency you earn in battle. Sure, there are items you can buy, but they don't change the gameplay very much. They might have a slight advantage, but not a drastic one. Not to the point where a player feels like they have to use plastic in order to fairly compete. Approximately 90% of purchases are made with the currency you earn. The cost of purchases are totally within the relationship of earnings. Since some MMO games can survive very well without the high prices, makes me wonder what TO does with the money. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by The-Jinx

[Viking4s 10,791]

Part of the problem is all the drugging. To me, druggers are admitting their tank is weak, their weapon is weak and they have no skills. It's easier to pull out the plastic and buy a bunch of supplies than it is to hone skills.

You started from the wrong foot here, there is no problem with using supplies. In contrary there is problem with tankers not willing to use supplies, for many reason. The skills related reason is a good-bad reason, as one do not need skills to play the game, this was stated many times by the devs. Further more this is why dev would not make any drastic changes in the supplies system.

 

The game is xp/crystal oriented, using drugs help to gain more xp and earn more crystal (so does premium but in an artificially way). Simple as that. So not using drugs makes you not willing to gain xp and crystals, or at least doing it slowly (which is something not bothering you).

Fortunately there is still the pro-battles were you can earn xp and crystals and not using supplies.

[The-Jinx 32]

You started from the wrong foot here, there is no problem with using supplies. In contrary there is problem with tankers not willing to use supplies, for many reason. The skills related reason is a good-bad reason, as one do not need skills to play the game, this was stated many times by the devs. Further more this is why dev would not make any drastic changes in the supplies system.

 

The game is xp/crystal oriented, using drugs help to gain more xp and earn more crystal (so does premium but in an artificially way). Simple as that. So not using drugs makes you not willing to gain xp and crystals, or at least doing it slowly (which is something not bothering you).

Fortunately there is still the pro-battles were you can earn xp and crystals and not using supplies.

Yep, as stated many times before. This game is P2W. I choose not to buy because I have domestic obligations that are more important than wasting money on a game. It doesn't pay my bills, put food on the table, a car in the driveway, and a roof over my head. Not to mention all the insurances that go with it. So, in order to play this game the way it was meant to be played, TO wants me to go without the necessities of life. If I don't, then I'm the problem. Is that what you're saying? Please refer to the orange highlighted part of your post. 

 

As I have always known, this is a buyer's game. It didn't used to be. The problem isn't with people not using supplies, but rather greed. In essence, the Dev's came to the conclusion that if people are willing to pay "this" amount of money for supplies, turrets, hulls, etc., etc., then maybe they will pay even more. They were right, those with credit cards and deep pockets did just that. So, as long as there are high buyers, the Dev's will keep going up on the price until there are no non-buyers left. Oh, it will still be F2P, that's the catch. That's how the lambs are lead to the slaughterhouse. Promise one thing, but deliver another. 

 

How about addressing the latter part of my post that asks how other MMO games manage to survive very well without players having to reach for the plastic card in order to compete and have a fair and balanced game. 

[T-34-3m 360]

The idea of skill in Tanki is vague. In order to compete you need three basic things understood: How to move your tank and turret, how the battle flows, and how to use supplies smartly. Ever wonder how those druggers have so many supplies? It's because they know how to ration them out by going for the free drops. Even I, with my 105 stockpiled Speed Boosts, don't just use them without a second thought.

[r_moinking0 0]

i am disliking the game from some days

the main reasons:-

i)before when i started the game i even started liking the game because of the chain-like thing which was moving in the hull when  we control. after that i lived the game for some reason for a half year but when now  i see it is not roll'in like my favorite!!!,the disadvantage is that if were fallen upside down if we move our hull we can keep it as sign to our friends who often try to flip up again.

ii)the salary is very less for our hard work.

iii)why the gold box will drop only 1000 diamonds why can't more then this is the sweet fruit for our hard work.

if you like it plz reply if u want you as my friend send a request in the game to "moinking" plzzzzzzzzzz!!!

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

I will address each section highlighted in orange:

 

#1 and #3 can be addressed together. You answered #1 with #3. They started drugging as soon as they realized how much more powerful the tank and weapon is with the drugs and they never stopped using them. As I said, an addiction is hard to break. If supplies were taken out of the game, they would be the first to leave. 

 

#2...I've been playing this game since it came out of Beta. My higher ranked accounts used drugs a lot. That was long before MU came into the game. The battles were more balanced then, because it was more F2P with the option to buy. Now it's P2W with the option not to buy. Players were saving their crystals to buy the next upgrade. But back then, there were crystal drops on a regular basis, not at all like now with just the GB drop. Back then, you could get 1K crystals a day a lot easier, than now just by playing battles and gathering the blue crystal boxes. 

 

#4...I didn't say they shouldn't be compensated for a kill. Yes, a kill is a kill, either way the enemy is neutralized. Which takes more skill, the non-drugger playing peek-a-boo from around the corner and making the kill or standing out in the open with drugs activated and one shotting everything that moves and hitting the RK button?  

 

# 5...They are, no doubt about it. If you have a choice between killing an enemy with drugs activated or one who does not, which one would you choose? When I'm in a group of druggers, guess which one gets killed first? I'll give you 3 guesses, the first two don't count. Guess #1: Me. Guess #2: Me  Guess #3: Me, the non-drugger. 

 

# 6...I said "Psychopathic Killer Instinct." When playing CTF or CP, I've seen more players drugging up and playing TDM. Using the same gameplay as you usually do, try being a non-drugger for a day. Not even pick any up from the ground and see how many kills you get and how many times you are neutralized. It's all about the kill, not the damage. Against a drugger, many times all I can do and still survive is to do a lot of damage and run. Hopefully, a teammate will kill him before he catches up with me. So, who's the killer? You or me? 

 

# 7...I've seen prices go up and up and up. Even with a sale on, the prices are too high for most non-buyers. How do other games survive without the high prices? In fact, how do they survive without charging for upgrades, supplies, etc.? All there's just the currency you earn in battle. Sure, there are items you can buy, but they don't change the gameplay very much. They might have a slight advantage, but not a drastic one. Not to the point where a player feels like they have to use plastic in order to fairly compete. Approximately 90% of purchases are made with the currency you earn. The cost of purchases are totally within the relationship of earnings. Since some MMO games can survive very well without the high prices, makes me wonder what TO does with the money. 

#1 & #3. There is a difference between game meta and "realizing that drugging makes you powerful." Drugging does NOT make you powerful or invincible in the higher ranks, because everyone drugs. Your double damage is neutralized by someone's double armor or vice versa. Even if you are the only one drugging, you can still be taken down fairly easily because players know what they are doing at those ranks. Few players would leave if drugs were removed. I am sometimes surprised by how quickly I die even with double armor and a fully MU'd Viking M2 (the repair kit nerf contributes to this).

 

#2. When crystals boxes were removed, battle funds were increased. You can find the details in old patch notes. And I would argue that it is much easier to get crystals now thanks to missions, which depending on your rank can earn you anywhere from 500 to several thousand crystals a day, not including the crystals you get from battles. At the M0 level, you get about 150 crystals per mission, which is 450 for three missions. For me, at the M2 level, it is usually 600-700 crystals per mission, which is 2100 in total. Or course, not all of the missions will be crystals missions, but usually at least one is.

 

#4. Well this is subjective. "Skill" has little to do here. If you want "skill" play XP/BP.

 

#5. What does that choice have to do with reality? Druggers can be taken out easily by non-druggers, unless, eg, everyone on one team is drugging and everyone on the other team isn't. They are not helpless. More on this later.

 

#6. This is not so much the fault of drugs but the fault of the player. Bad players will go for kills, good players will go for flags. Often times, it is in fact hardcore druggers who do the capping and in essentially win the game for everyone. And no, I do not drug on a regular basis, I rarely use drugs.

 

#7. Really? I'm pretty sure the cost of supplies has always been the same. Micro-upgrades are at an all time low. Perhaps you are thinking of old hull and turret costs, but the meta has changed a lot since say, 2013, re-balance and all. You could have a full M3 garage at Second Lieutenant back then. Second, missions are a great source of supplies. I have over 1500 of each, except for mine and repair kit, just from missions. I've never bought a significant number of supplies (eg, no more than like 1-2 at a time). On the subject of MMO games, please provide an example.

 

The problem with drugs, in my opinion, is not the drugs themselves. They magnify the difference in equipment between players. For example: If someone with M2s is drugging, I am not bothered much, because it's not too hard for me to destroy them usually, and in the worse case scenario I can use my own drugs. But if someone with M3s or M4s is drugging, I can't do anything, with or without drugs. I am already outclassed in terms of equipment, and drugs make this difference even greater. Currently game balance is very poor because of a combination of huge rank brackets, drugs, and inability to make your own battles. Rank brackets mean you get into matches with players with much better equipment than you. Drugs mean that the players who already have an advantage over you have an even bigger advantage over you. And inability to make your own battles (save with pro pass, and currently the selection of pro pass battles is limited) means you can't be rid of both problems.

 

Drugs have been part of the game forever. They are not at fault. Recently repair kit was nerfed, and this is good for balance. But drugs in conjunction with other balance problems create one big problem.

i am disliking the game from some days

the main reasons:-

i)before when i started the game i even started liking the game because of the chain-like thing which was moving in the hull when  we control. after that i lived the game for some reason for a half year but when now  i see it is not roll'in like my favorite!!!,the disadvantage is that if were fallen upside down if we move our hull we can keep it as sign to our friends who often try to flip up again.

Strange. For me the tracks move. I think this is a bug, I suggest you report it to the "Bugs and Glitches" thread here: http://en.tankiforum.com/index.php?showtopic=275523&page=162&do=findComment&comment=6270803

Edited August 29, 2017 by ThirdOnion

[The-Jinx 32]

The idea of skill in Tanki is vague. In order to compete you need three basic things understood: How to move your tank and turret, how the battle flows, and how to use supplies smartly. Ever wonder how those druggers have so many supplies? It's because they know how to ration them out by going for the free drops. Even I, with my 105 stockpiled Speed Boosts, don't just use them without a second thought.

I know how to do all that. I move my tank (I hide when reloading the ammo) and help out my teammates. My turret moves more than my hull does. Each map has it's own natural flow, but in battle, that can change, too. It's not difficult to figure out. I know how to ration supplies. The only ones I have are those I pick up off the ground or get in missions. So if anyone knows how to ration, it's a non-buyer. I try to make my few supplies last for as many days as possible and use them only on rare occasions. 

 

You say skill is vague. Tell me, which takes more skill: Peeking around a corner, making a quick but accurate shot, hide for the reload and doing it again until you get a kill and not die doing it without supplies, OR, standing out in the open with as many supplies as possible activated, one shotting, which you know you could never do without supplies nor could you survive to make that many kills without supplies. 

 

Buyers and druggers say skill is vague, only because they never learned what skill is. A non-buyer and non-drugger knows exactly what skill is. They have to in order to survive. 

 

I make you the same challenge as I did @ThirdOnion in post # 87, paragraph # 6. Play your usual gameplay for entire day without using any supplies, not even the ones off the ground. (I say that, because I've gone through battles where supplies don't sit around for very long and are hard to find). We go through this day after day, I'm only asking for one day in standard mode, not Pro-Pass where drugs are disabled. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by The-Jinx

[ThirdOnion 4,898]

You say skill is vague. Tell me, which takes more skill: Peeking around a corner, making a quick but accurate shot, hide for the reload and doing it again until you get a kill and not die doing it without supplies, OR, standing out in the open with as many supplies as possible activated, one shotting, which you know you could never do without supplies nor could you survive to make that many kills without supplies. 

I would say standing out in the open takes more skill, because camping takes no skill whatsoever. I hate campers.

[T-34-3m 360]

I would say standing out in the open takes more skill, because camping takes no skill whatsoever. I hate campers.

I'd say I agree, but I work around camping constantly. I've never been good at being out in the open because it requires a level of reflexes and accuracy I don't have. If I had more time in my day to devote to the game, maybe I could improve, but all things considered, camping is an easy tactic for the weak like me.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

You say skill is vague. Tell me, which takes more skill: Peeking around a corner, making a quick but accurate shot, hide for the reload and doing it again until you get a kill and not die doing it without supplies, OR, standing out in the open with as many supplies as possible activated, one shotting, which you know you could never do without supplies nor could you survive to make that many kills without supplies.

Camping is about the first thing I learned to do in Tanki. With regards to level of skill, it's only marginally superior to standing still on the field shooting. The only difference is that you use a hiding spot after shooting. It really does not seem the best example here.

[T-34-3m 360]

It depends on what you mean by standing in the open. I personally think that if you can successfully lead a charge and coordinate an attack with your team of ADHD-ridden teammates without using the chat, props to you.

[Pink_Legacy 269]

It depends on what you mean by standing in the open. I personally think that if you can successfully lead a charge and coordinate an attack with your team of ADHD-ridden teammates without using the chat, props to you.

Oh, the important word here is still, that is, without moving.

 

If you move your hull as well as your turret, find good shooting places, use the environment and other tanks to dodge enemy fire, work as part of a team and all that, then that's pretty much as good as it gets.

[Viking4s 10,791]

Yep, as stated many times before. This game is P2W. I choose not to buy because I have domestic obligations that are more important than wasting money on a game. It doesn't pay my bills, put food on the table, a car in the driveway, and a roof over my head. Not to mention all the insurances that go with it. So, in order to play this game the way it was meant to be played, TO wants me to go without the necessities of life. If I don't, then I'm the problem. Is that what you're saying? Please refer to the orange highlighted part of your post. 

 

As I have always known, this is a buyer's game. It didn't used to be. The problem isn't with people not using supplies, but rather greed. In essence, the Dev's came to the conclusion that if people are willing to pay "this" amount of money for supplies, turrets, hulls, etc., etc., then maybe they will pay even more. They were right, those with credit cards and deep pockets did just that. So, as long as there are high buyers, the Dev's will keep going up on the price until there are no non-buyers left. Oh, it will still be F2P, that's the catch. That's how the lambs are lead to the slaughterhouse. Promise one thing, but deliver another. 

 

How about addressing the latter part of my post that asks how other MMO games manage to survive very well without players having to reach for the plastic card in order to compete and have a fair and balanced game. 

I meant, when you decide not to use supplies you create a problem (supplies is a problem for the game), and then you come up with a solution to the problem you created. P2W maybe, Pay 2 go faster, surely. 

The other problem is that people prefer to buy, with crystals, equipment over supplies, that a strategic choice (not the best).

 

It's not a buyer game. Every buyer as a limited amount of money per week, they cannot spend endlessly. If you play every day you will be able to earn enough supplies to play enough battle and still be able to compete against fully drugged players. Well I do not spend money in the game, however I like the game and I need supplies, so instead of investing my money I invest my time in the game and earn supplies just by playing everyday.

 

Regarding the last part, yes there are F2P games that seem to work and of course we should compare them to TO business model. I think it's a timely question as we have a new CM who actually is from the game industry with 5 years past experience as CM of F2P company (see is CV here). He will be the best person to reply to your question. I suggest you to post your question again in the new feed. But give him time to get the picture of TO/Alternativa platform business model first.

 

Which other F2P game are you referring to? That would be good to have the name to look into it.

 

---

I found Semyon Kirov CV :) he definitely left Alternativa but he is still doing community stuff: Head of Community

Edited August 30, 2017 by Viking4s

[HichigoShiiro 4,378]

 

What else spells out "dead game" better than ridiculously cheap discounts? 

[Mr.General.Ghost 647]

Its dead since when cerdic came and then 100% dead when he left

[T-34-3m 360]

It died for me when Semyon left. I guess Magnum is alright, gives me something else to play around with.

[ghost-guns 1,486]

I'm actually enjoying the game more these days... lots of supplies from the 3x mission chains and I finally have decent equipment to use in battles. Of course if they introduce the match-making system then that's going to ruin everything.

[SmellThis 117]

and the new overdrive touch mammy and you instantly die ... make tanki a tank game again

[ghost-guns 1,486]

Yep... overdrives will probably kill the game for good. Casual players will give up on it. Also too many hackers, mults and weirdos on the servers. They make all kinds of disgusting comments but the mods only ban them for a month instead of deleting their account. What gives? Oh yeah, they pay for clan membership $$$.